I've been thinking about all of this... It's strange that a TV show causes so many differences of opinion.

Anyway, referring to the links given by the OP... I can take the points raised. Maybe those certains bits of evidence ARE faked, maybe they are mistakes, or maybe they are real, who knows?

It's strange how you've picked on those clips to post. Well, not strange, but considering GH is a paranormal show... Pretty much ALL the evidence they have captured could be faked. One event that springs to mind is when they investigate the lighthouse (in Florida?) and catch shadows at the top of the stairs, moving about, and speeding from one point to another. We are told that no-one is up there, and there's nothing that would cause such an effect. Or the Eastern State Penetentiary episode, when the soundman's bag hits him in the face and he falls. These things could EASILY be faked, either by someone there at the time, or in post-production (it is the SCI FI as in science fiction channel after all), yet we are told there was no one around, or there is nothing that would cause that effect, and we believe it.

I, personally, don't think they are faking anything, I think Sci Fi is just very elective in what they does and doesn't make the final cut.

I would also wager that TAPS also are limited about what they can reveal to the public due to legally-binding contracts.

My point is that, if you are going to "pick" evidence to analyse, analyse ALL of it. You can't trust them on some things and not on others. The fact is , NO ONE can trust paranormal footage from ANY source unless you were personally there, and can vouch for the authenticity.

It's such a prominant group that I'm sure they're aware that the footage IS going to be analysed, and I don't see why they would bother deliberately faking things, although that doesn't resolve Sci Fi's "creative" editing.

As for science... I don't think investigating the paranormal is an exact science. Because no one really knows what ghosts are, or if they even exist, groups, through experience, and trial and error, learn what works and what doesn't. After all, ghosts are just a theory, with many off-shoots of theories, and there is no way that ghosts can be prooven to exist, and likewise it can't be proven that they don't, because you can't proove a negative. There are also many different types of groups. Compared to groups whom use psychics, Ghost Hunters IS scientific.

It appears that this thread has caused some tension between different groups. I don't think it's appropriate to argue, after all, you're all working towards the same goal. To start saying "my groups is better than yours" or "my group is better than TAPS" is childish (before you have a go at me, those things were NOT said, but it's the tone I get from some posters). Like I just said, every group is different. It's like sitting next to a know-all when watching some show and that person picking out everything they do "wrong", when it's not really, it's just different to how you do it.

That's all, now I'm going to eat some tasty toast.

Chewlip, Im disappointed. I like your intelligence, but I really feel like you aren't reading my posts, but just assuming what it's going to say. I know this thread has gone on a while, but if you read what I've written, you'll find that we basically agree. I put those 3 clips up on the OP just to show a sample of what I was talking about. I wanted to give an example of my overall point. And I believe I have stated, also, that there really is no way to know what really happened through TV. You had to have been there to truly know. So, again, we agree.

I would like to correct you on one thing though. I know you weren't quoting, and instead just going by tone....but I would like to say for the record that I DO NOT feel my group is better than TAPS. They have much more experience than me, better equipment, more funding, etc....I am NOT more knowledgeable on the paranormal than Jay or Grant, etc. I won't claim to be, and I really don't think I ever created the tone that I was. I have referenced my own group at times to make a point, but I've never intimated I'm better. Because, simply put, I'm not. We are working toward the same goal, though. You were right about that. But just because I'm in a paranormal group of my own doesn't negate me from being able to question others. That's foolishness.

There, I hope I've settled that.

I never understood why someone would go out of their way to bash people. It's like the have nothing better to do so they have to pick on others to make themselves feel better & more important. If you think TAPS is faking evidence, then DONT WATCH THE SHOW!!!

I read through ten pages on this topic.... Its a TV show and you wern't there when these events occured so its pointless to bicker about it. Maybe its faked? Maybe its not? You don't like it or think its doctored? Don't watch! Here's an idea.. go out and do your own ghost hunting. The only way to verify it is seeing it with your own eyes. Other wise its second hand.

I am not bashing anyone, I am saying some of there evidence is questionable why is that such a sin to say? Plus I have never said TAPS is faking anything people need to take time and read these posts. If you dont like what we are discussing why bash it? Dont post in the thread then.

You've read through ten pages but apparently have not understood what you've read. At least, not from me. If you re-read what I've written you'll see me say a few times that I am a fan of TAPS and think they are a great group. My argument from the beginning has been that in order for TAPS to maintain credibility (which is what I want) then they need to respond to the increasing number of skeptical accusations against them. Otherwise, they become like Paranormal State and Most Haunted. And yes, those are shows I do not watch.

I agree with you that you basically have to be there to truly know if something happened. Again, you'll see I've made the same argument. And I do ghost hunt with a team called Black Swamp Paranormal. Check out my avatar. Read my UM profile.

And seriously, if you feel like it's pointless to debate or bicker, than what are you doing here debating and bickering?

Good day!

((((((((((((((((Jackal)))))))))))) There you are my friend..SO nice to see you again. JN

I couldn't agree with you more, chewlip.

Basically, this is everyone's opinion. And your not going to get the person who thinks the evidence is "faked" to believe that it's real, and vise versa.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

For the simple reason that you can't and shouldn't judge a person or a group by a TV show.

Its just a TV show, one among many in fake "reality" shows. (sorry if i'm bursting anyones bubble here) The events are scripted as well as the evidence. Its all about more viewers=more money, and apperantly their formula is working. It's kinda like someone believing that Gilligan and crew were actually stranded on an island hehe.

Explain please. Cant judge a person or a group by a TV show? Well we can certainly implement peer review on the group. I will agree (if that's what you are saying) that the TV show and the group TAPS are different entities. But why can we not question the validity of this show? Many do of Most Haunted and others like it. So why not this one?

One more thing, it's on the Sci-Fi channel. Science Fiction, meaning not real. I suppose they could show something real on that network, but it would be more plausible if it were on Discovery or something, although I still wouldn't necessarily believe it.

GOOD POINT

I apologise, Jason KB. That wasn't aimed at you, more paranormal groups in general. Some people approach the subject in a more religious, spiritual way, and others in more scientific ways. People have different beliefs and theories, and some people get very passionate about it, which in itself is not a bad thing, but when they thrust their beliefs on others and get annoyed when it is questioned, it's very frustrating. Again, I'm not accusing you, personally, of this.

I have read your posts, and followed this whole thread closely, and I don't think you're out of order at all. It's created a lively and interesting debate.

The only paranormal show that is aired here is Most Haunted, and in comparison, Ghost Hunters seems a lot more real and interesting (I watch it on youtube) I think it's probably the best show of it's genre, and Jay and Grant are very likable guys, so I think a lot of people get quite defensive about it.

I was going to write more, but it's 4am here and my brain is asleep.

Way to present your opinion like it's a fact. Sorry, but it isn't. And no, it's absolutely nothing like that.



GH is on Sci-Fi because it's more about the subject matter rather than the genre. I'm sick of people always making this argument.

My apologies, friend. I honestly thought you were referencing me or my group. No offense taken, however. So, really, we're good.

I'm not questioning paranormal activity here, just the show's authenticity, so chill a bit

You said the entire show is scripted, as well as the evidence. That's pretty much questioning the paranormal activity. Is it really that hard to believe that they might actually find some evidence of paranormal activity in locations that really have a history of hauntings? Saying that they might stretch reality a bit is one thing, but saying that everything they find is fake is completely recockulous.

I suppose i should have clarified, the evidence from the show is scripted, not ALL evidence. This show was made for entertainment purposes, and to believe otherwise seems to me as "recockulous"

Most Haunted has long since admitted that much of what they show are staged based on reports of others or re-enactments from other people's reports. I'm not going to do a this show vs. that show comparison. There is clear different approaches between the people shown on various shows. Some do try to find real answers in different ways and some are just going for the sensationalism.

To your first point, anyone can be made to look awesome or foolish on TV. Filming and editing can turn anyone's life on ear. We see that daily with public figures.

I think it's OK to point out flaws that are show and to debate them but you are way short changing a person and groupt o make a conclusion based on a 30 or 60 minute (really 22 or 42 minutes after commercials!) TV show once a week.

As I've pointed out numerous times on these forums, a group like TAPS can spend 14+ hours on site doing an investigation and all we see is maybe 30 minutes of it. When they review the evidence collected 60-70+ hours of video and audio is shown reviewed in a minute or two. And I know from personal conversations with Jason and Grant that many interesting things they did collect/happen on investigations the production company chose to edit out. Even they can't understand why sometimes!

ps- Regarding the peer review, anyone who's been here long enough knows I am 110% for it. But several things have to be considered, not the least of which is no one from those shows is here to answere the questions that are being raised.

Thanks for clarifying. No, I certainly didn't want to do a comparison of shows. Just wanted to know why we could make remarks about the likes of Most Haunted and not Ghost Hunters.

It is no secret that even the most serious of shows have a tendency of being "sexed up". Even lame 10 minute interviews can be this way, speaking from first hand experience. So many of us are dubious that we are, in fact, getting honesty from these shows. Also I would like to point out that TAPs may have the same people involved, but they are not the same. Obviously, one is a show, and one is a real investigative team. Saying that, I hope that it makes it clear that I for one am only trying to discuss the show, and not TAPS. The show may be a problem for Grant and Jayson. They may be expected to play along with the networks decisions and not like it. This is another thing that none of us know.

Edited - I just realized I had only read half your post MasterPo and got distracted - sorry for sounding like I ignored your post (My last para)

The biggest diff is with TAPS, obviously Grant and Jayson call the shots. With Ghost Hunter, the network does. So, really, I am calling into question the network, or the TV show.

perhaps i was being a little overzealous, maybe not all of the evidence from the show is scripted, in fact some of it might be real, however I still think this show was made purely for entertainment purposes. Thats as close as a retraction as you'll get from me.

P.S. sorry for quoting myself, i'm not really self absorbed, I just wanted everyone to know what i was referring to

I think that's a pointless idea. Ever see "A Haunting" on discovery channel? Does that mean it's all real?

You are right, one shouldn't believe everything on Discovery either.

Ah well, Jason, I must say you've been very mature about everything and it is really too bad no one chose to PM you with their little jabs. LOL

Bottom line is, it's a TV show, and it is presented as a group of real people looking for evidence of the paranormal. The evidence that is shown is presented as actual evidence captured by the team, and in some cases the production crew filming the show.

Falsifying this evidence in such a public setting would result in them being caught, in short order. Have you ever seen the "Most Haunted" out-takes and the outright fraud caught on tape? They TRIED to hide it, but it LEAKED. They were outright BUSTED. If GH/TAPS/Sc-Fi did it, they WOULD get busted in time. What is going on here, in this thread, is an attempt to create a "buzz", or initiate a conspiracy theory. It's a lame attempt at discrediting people and a TV show that deserves SCRUTINY, not this low budget slander.

Does ANYONE have any evidence better than what we see on GH? Feel free to share it. I'm sure it'll get picked apart, since you don't have a HUGE production crew following you around, or a HUGE team of investigators involved, or MILLIONS of people watching it and critiquing every move. What's easier to fake? Three goobers in a grave-yard with a Sony night-cam and some software they got from a junior college computer graphics class, or the TAPS guys with everyone and their mother looking over their shoulders?

wait, let me get this straight, since a lot of people are watching that makes the evidence more plausible? I think i shall take a moment to laugh at this, but i wont post the lol's so as not to hurt any feelings.

No, but would you respond to the above?

THOUSANDS of people saw the Trade Center attack, and STILL, in conflict with all of the first hand and video evidence (let alone physical evidence) thousand of people refuse to believe what they see with their own two eyes.

This is more of the same. Lets take evidence that we can't debunk by looking at it, frame by frame, bit by bit, and attach a great big conspiracy to it. "Yeah, that's right, it must be the great big evil corporate giant (Sci-Fi) faking it for money, and Jason and Grant CAN'T reveal the truth because the corporate giant will do something to them, ruin their lives or destroy their families and their reputations."

It sounds like some insane JFK, UFO, Roswell, Marilyn Monroe conspiracy theory. Please people, get a clue.

Just because it's on TV does NOT make it real. Because it IS on TV and scrutinized by millions, it IS harder to fake. It would take DOZENS, maybe HUNDREDS of people to keep a secret about outright fraud? Do you REALLY think the Sc-Fi channel is THAT powerful?

Are you telling me that the little and unsignificant evidence TAPS usually takes you believe to be fake?

That's not quite fair.

And by the way, I do want to say THANK YOU to all the people who have come in to share their opinions, whether I agree with them or not. I'm having a good time and am learning different things thanks to your input. The people who have come in and engaged in friendly debate have really made this thread a success and I thank you very much that. I hope this can continue, because I'm having a lot of fun reading everyone's take on these issues.

I only wish everyone here was having as much fun as I. Some people here are, unfortunately, much too angry and make it a bit of a bummer sometimes.

Anyway, thanks again to all you dear, sweet people!! Keep it up!

Could you reword that please? I'm not quite sure what you mean exactly, but I'll try to answer anyway. You let me know if it answers your question, okay?

No, I don't believe TAPS is faking evidence. I actually believe at times they have been a little less analytical than I would like and are passing off things that should have been debunked off as credible evidence, though. I understand, of course, they are under time restrictions, etc...but with over 15 years experience, they shouldn't make such big mistakes, ya know? I think they have to be a little more careful, because there are tons of websites right now devoted to them being fakers. I don't believe that myself. But I see why some people do...there are unanswered questions. I would actually like for them to clear these issues up, and they have been a little bit lately on Beyond Reality Radio. So, they're starting to see it could damage their reputations, at least.

The point of this thread was to show what kind of claims are being made my the hardline skeptics out there. They make some interesting points, but I don't think it necessarily point to TAPS faking. If anything, the network or production company are using clever editing to do something like that. I think Jay and Grant are pretty solid in that regard.

I hope this answers your question. Please let me know if it did not. Thanks!

Thanx Jason for being polite, I try to be polite myself, and if i've stepped on any toes, i apologize. I'm still on the fence about paranormal activity, and I was only posting about the show's validity. I know that they have a budget to consider, and having several shows with no evidence found could hurt ratings, so I believe that some "sensationalizing"(if thats even a word ) happens. But do they fake evidence? I dont know, really, but it is possible. I don't think they made the show for educational or scientific purposes, however it does raise public awareness for Paranormal Investigation,which can only be a good thing, as long as they don't get caught IF their evidence is fake.

No problem, my friend. Thank YOU for sharing your opinions on the thread I created here. I very much appreciate all your thoughts and insight, as Im sure do others. I can't remember if Ive added you as a friend here yet, but if not...its on it's way.

Thanks again!

Can we all please keep personal attacks and derrogatory comments about other members off the thread, i've removed a few recent posts of this nature from the discussion.

If you have a personal issue with someone then either speak to them in private or contact a moderator.

Thank you.

One things i noticed, in the episodes i have watched, is that everytime an object moves, supposedly because of something supernatural, Grant is either alone, or the one nearest to the object. This really made me very suspicious of the evidence coming from TAPS, and Grant is the one i trust the least.

Some people are just very good at attracting paranormal activity to them. There probably is some reasonable explanation but can't put one foward now other than to say I've seen it happen many many times. Some spiritualists claim ghosts can "feel" who is more open to them and are therefore more attracted to attemptiong communication/interaction with those people.

In some cases I do think it's possible, even likely, that someone played a trick or prank or even hoax on TAPS during an investigation and either they didn't catch it or that part was edited out. But I doubt little was a planned and purposeful fakery.

I think it's a vast left-wing conspiracy fronted by the secularist liberals running the Sci-Fi channel, as part of their plan to take over the US, starting with those that believe in the paranormal. After all, we know that Sci-Fi has its hands in the war in Iraq, foreign oil, and global rice store-houses. I hear they are a subsidiary owned by a shell company controlled by a brother in law of the guy that mops the floors at Halliburton...coincidence? I think not...


Honestly, we will never know until this stuff is done scientifically, what is real and what isn't. Even then, we might not know what the hell it is! In the mean time, does it make sense to cast doubt on those who are sincere in their desire to explore the paranormal? Why does it have to be boiled down to money? As if there is some conspiracy involving dozens or even hundreds of people, a vast cover-up of falsified information. It seems absurd.

That doesn't mean that EVERY tid bit is paranormal. It means that TAPS is sincere in it's desire to put out what they honestly believe is evidence, in as scientific a manner as they can. Feel free to debunk and disprove. But ya know, those sites that "re-create" the evidence are just stupid. Why? Because it's CLEAR that it COULD be faked. That's a given. Oooh, make a chair scoot 6 inches in a dark room with crappy resolution camera there as proof...my 13 year old can do that. So what? It proves nothing. Now, the TAPS footage that shows that only proves that a chair moved. How did it move? We don't know. It is ASSUMED that it was not a piece of thread, because that would require SOMEONE on the TAPS team to be a liar and a fake. Is it possible? Sure it is! But we HOPE that is not the case, and many BELIEVE that is not the case.

You know what for the first time we agree I think it is a conspiracy....kidding. Anyway I just want people to open there mind and see that the network could possibly exaggerate evidence, that's all I mean. I just feel like certain things are hyped up more than it used to be. Things Jason wouldn't consider paranormal he is passing off as paranormal. So I will say that they may not be faking evidence, but I will say it is highly exaggerated at times.

Yes, ratings are important. Unfortunately, it will make this and other shows like it, subject to closer scrutiny. Nothing wrong with that.

Sylvia Browne needed to keep her ratings up. Saying no more.

Well, I've brought it up before...but I think this would be a great thing for TAPS to do:

Have helmet cams or something similar that allows viewers to see what it is they have seen. I know there have been plenty of instances where Jay or Grant freak the hell out at something they saw that the home viewing audience didn't see. Recent examples include Jay and Grant both seeing a shadowperson crouch down and then zoom away. Can't remember where that was at. Wright Patterson? I'm not sure. Another was at Fort Mifflin where Grant turned and said he saw a face staring back at him. Grant dropped some equipment and almost crapped his pants, haha. But we didn't see the face. Another example would be when they were out west and both Jay and Grant said they saw a woman in period clothing walk by.

Anyway, you get my point. There's been plenty of things they have seen that the home viewers didn't see. If they had helmet cams or something similar, they could roll that footage back and presto! That's evidence of the paranormal right there. Footage they could show the client, footage they could show the viewers at home; it would be great!

So, c'mon....spring for some helmet cams or something, Sci-Fi!!!!!

I would agree that this is a possibility. Paranormal activity can seem like a radio and sometimes must be "tuned" to a certain frequency (a person) to come through. There are many documented cases like this.

And as far as hoaxes go, I reached a whole new level of respect for TAPS when they caught they Queen Mary hoax attempt. That was such a great catch, I believe, by Tango.

Good observation, however I believe he attracts spirits stronger than anyone else on the team. He also is the one who believes sitting quietly for a time, and also asks respectful at the right time. I think of him as a ghost magnet, for lack of a better term. JN

I am listening to the TAPS radio show right now. And just at the beginning when they were talking about this season of Ghost Hunters, Grant said something like "Watch Ghost Hunters" and then, with a hint of bother in his voice Jason said "You mean Scifi's edited Ghost Hunters".

That really perked my ears. I think they want to say something about it, but they can't.

You can listen to the radio show off the links from here:
http://www.myspace.com/beyondrealityradio
It's from 7-10, and the last hour is all questions from the phone lines. Someone here should get on the phones and ask them about it!

Exactly. I have noticed this type of talk as well. In fact, you'll see where Black_Swamp_Paranormal and I have referenced this type of thing. For instance, I can't remember what episode it was on, but Hawes said "You see what Sci Fi wants you to see." This was a major factor for me in starting this thread. They seem to be acknowledging something strange is going on, but can't be more forthright in saying EXACTLY what is happening.

You should try and get through in the third hour and just throw the question at them and see what their reaction is. I'd do it but I'm too shy .

Ya know what? That's a great idea!! I actually just tried to get in during 7:30 open lines. I'll try again at 9 for the 3rd hour. Can't say it'll work, i guess...but it's worth a shot.

Aww you didn't get through

Do they post up the shows for listening after they are over? I haven't heard it before, and I wanted to check it out tonight, but I forgot about it.

yes i believe it is www.beyondreality.planetparanormal.com

I know. Drats! Well, there's always next week, right? I'll keep trying. Honestly, I usually forget about the show and try to catch some of them on podcast later. If it hadn't been for you mentioning it today, I likely would have forgotten again. So, thanks! I'll try to remember next week now, haha.