Before the end of this season, everybody loved TAPS, but as we can see now basically everyone has garnered some suspicion towards them.

YES! EXACTLY!

See, I remember they went back to the area they captured that piece of footage and tried to recreate it. They couldn't get it exactly right. But c'mon, just because something can't be perfectly recreated doesn't mean it's paranormal.

A possibly humorous example: Think of one of those squeaky padded chairs that when you sit down or get up, it sounds like you farted. Everyone looks at you and laughs thinking you cut the cheese. You swear you didn't and then try to recreate the noise by continuously sitting down and standing up. Well, it never seems to sound exactly the same. But I swear I didn't really fart. I mean, ya know...hypothetically speaking, heh heh heh.

But you see what I mean, I hope. Just because you can't recreate something doesn't mean it was paranormal, ya know? But TAPS should have approached that a little more skeptically and threw that out. There's really no excuse for it being considered evidence of an apparition.

WOW Thanks for the information. I watch TAPS every week and enjoy it. However, when they started out they went week after week and couldnt even get a picture or EVP as evidence. It started to become boring. Then all the sudden they began to find evidence, and GHI was born. The one thing I have noticed, is many on here put Grant and Jay on a pedistal, and can do no wrong, and tend to believe everything they say as if God said it himself. Truth of the matter is, IMO is they are a couple of plumbers who decided to ghost hunt, and somehow got their own show, just like numerous reality shows. The thing I always remember is its TV and totally unaware of what happens behind the scenes, and that goes for every show, not just TAPS..This doesnt surprise me, anymore than PRS, or Most Haunted. The way I see it, its all about ratings, and seems most will go to any extreme to remain on the air. Its a shame they have to resort to that, but thats show biz..JMO...JN

I have been noticing that they have been really giving that one guy (don’t know his name) a really hard time lately, he can’t seem to do anything right. They even went back to a location to spend another 2 nights to make sure no one "faked" evidence, did they do that to get everyone off the trail of thinking they are producing their own "haunting evidence”?

I just found it odd, how all of the sudden they are not trusting their own footage or evidence, and if they did before, they never let it be known to the audience until now? It was almost like they were hinting around that someone on the team faked it? and they had to go back for the Integrity of the team to make sure thats what they saw. It seemed a bit of a stretch to me.

I think TAPS has to show whatever evidence Sci-Fi wants them to for ratings. Even if it something that may not be paranormal.

Yes its like I said people seem to think Jason and Grant run the show, when truth is they dont, they are the one's getting told what to do.

I agree, and lets face it, we all have a boss..JN

I personally like the show. It is good entertainment, and I think they have found things they can't explain. I don't care how good an "actor" some people think they are...sometimes their reactions look pretty genuine to me when they find something out of the ordinary. And I liked the fact that they have debunked things on the show. That is part of investigating is it not? And for all we know...they could go and investigate 30 places a week and Sci-Fi channel picks the ones they deem as "show worthy". If Jason and Grant have basically no input in the final decision that is.

My husband hates the show and he likes to refer to it as "Ghost Plumbers" and provokes me by saying things like "Oh what did they find this time? NOTHING!!" And he hated Brian lol.

I'll keep watching it, I like them and I like the team and they do visit some pretty cool places sometimes. But I do think that yes, occasionally they do find things not easily explained away. Isn't that what a lot of us have done? Or want to do?

But, when I watched the Manson murder site episode, I was real disappointed...esp with the meter that one of the victims, Jay Sebring was using to "talk" to them? I thought that was total BS and the owner of the house just rubbed me the wrong way. He was just a little too much you know? Too bad the original house was torn down...I would be more apt to believe in whatever they found if they were able to investigate that.

True, but I never have to sell my integrity to please my boss.

I can't buy that excuse.

If they are happy with not being credible, and are content just making $$, then there is no problem. But i hope they don't want the best of both worlds.

Compared to Most Haunted and Paranormal State, Ghost Hunters is "scientific".

The clips of them plumbing are obviously staged. It's television, I think, initially they probably still did work as plumbers, and Sci Fi keeps including those scenes because it's their "winning formular". The way television works, everything is motivated towards ratings and money. Even "reality" television, such as big brother is edited, and the conventions used (i.e soundtrack) can turn one scene from funny to sinister (a humourous example is here)

My point is that through editing the director can produce anything he/she wants. It may not be a fair representation of the people in the show (for all we know Jay and Grant could be horrible horrible people, but all that gets edited out, so they are more likeable). They could be money grabbing fakers, or genuine nice guys who enjoy what they do. We just don't know. What I am saying is that Ghost Hunters is property of Sci Fi, I'm sure they don't really care about TAPS' credibility. Maybe Jay and Grant don't know, or go along with some things, in order to continue doing it (I'm guessing most of the equipment they use probably belongs to Sci Fi.)

As for the amount of footage they catch... maybe they investigate more places than are shown on TV. (I'm sure there are more than a few people out there who don't really want the interior of their homes broadcast internationally, and TAPS being such a well known group, probably get many requests.) Or they scrap the places that yield no results (after all, we've established they no longer work as plumbers - they have more time than ever) Also, I'm sure most paranormal groups don't have access to a lot of the equipment TAPS has, the cameras in each room, the handycams, the thermocams, the recorders, the laptops, the software, the cables, the truck etc must total thousands of pounds worth of equipment. Logically, they are more likely to capture something than a group with 2 cameras and a voice recorder.

Another point is human error. People mess up, no one is perfect, reading this board there are many many people who genuinely think they've had a paranormal experience, even though it may have a more mundane explaination. Maybe TAPS members overlook some things sometimes, and when they finally realise they were mistaken, Sci Fi ignores this fact - it makes for better TV.

Reading this back it looks like I am defending Ghost Hunters, but that's not my intention. I think TAPS as a group are credible, Jay and Grant likeable and trusworty, but I am also aware that it's television, purely entertainment, and should be taken as such.

To base all your beliefs (I'm a skeptic BTW) on a TELEVISION SHOW is ridiculous.

I would not be shocked if it is revealed Ghost Hunters is fake.

I have watched Ghost Hunters since it first came on, and I watch it every week.

As for the amount of footage they catch, maybe they investigate tons of places
and weed out the ones that have no results, and only show the ones that do produce results.
Maybe, when they get footage, they try their best to debunk it, but the producers think that
the footage is good so they show it on T.V.



I agree with you.
I don't think they would purposly fake evidence.
If the evidence is faulty then they probably overlooked something and didn't know it.

I like the show, too. I'm sure I'll end up watching the new episode next week. I believe they have found things that are quite possibly paranormal. I don't think it is ALL being faked or tampered with.

As far as their reactions being genuine, let me just say this: "Take 2." Ya know what I mean? Remember, this show is editted down from hours worth of footage into approximately 44 minutes. I'm not saying they are doing multiple takes, but that would explain a reaction that seems geniune. Along these same lines, I'm personally getting sick of them seeing things but the cameras aren't catching it. Jay sees a Shadowman kneel down and then fly out of the room. Grant sees a face in the underground confinement areas at Fort Mifflin. Can't Sci Fi spring for some helmet cams or something? Let's make it so that we can see what they see. If they witness an apparition, let's roll the tape.

And yes, it is certainly part of investigating that they debunk things. That's what my team does too, of course. Any team should. That doesn't make it any less likely they are tampering with or faking evidence however. Or, at the very least, not being analytical enough. Look at the facts. Stay open minded. Look at my original post when I started this thread and dig deeper yourself. Something strange is going on. If you aren't seeing it, it's because you're trying too hard not to.

I don't have much doubt they investigate places not aired on television. However, I sincerely doubt it's too many more. If it was, they wouldn't have time for all the appearances they make, all the ghost tours they're leading, their weekly radio show, their magazine, their families, etc. Let's face facts here. There simply aren't enough hours in a day or a week to do a helluva lot of investigations when you've got that much other stuff (and more) going on.

Well, as far as investigating tons of places and weeding out the locations with no results....just read the last post I just made. They've got too much going on every week to investigate that much. And it's a lot more difficult to capture evidence than it appears on television. You have to revisit the same location time and time again to gather information. It simply doesn't happen on cue.

And your second point, about them just overlooking everything...it's possible in a lot of cases. The quote you posted is correct. We're human, we all make mistakes. And I have no problem with them showing certain footage on tv. For instance, the FLIR footage of the Crescent Hotel military man with cap and #2 on his arm...that SHOULD have been showed on tv. But then it should have been debunked and not used in the reveal as evidence. If they missed that, something that was blatantly obvious to me (a paranormal investigator with far less experience than Jay and Grant) then they really should be ashamed of themselves.

Again, they're not just making typical human mistakes here. They're either purposely passing off bad evidence as legitimate, or they are being completely irresponsible.

I think your talking about Brian. And yes, he was the BalFathers whipping boy. I really find it funny that Steve the king of freakouts, could do the same mistakes brian did and not get yelled at. But thats just me.

Yea helmet ir cams would be cool. Then they couldn't say i see a shadow when were looking at their line of sight. I mean u say u see something so were supose to believe it, No... why even say it on tv when you can't prove it? but there is definitely more evidence coming up progressively. any die hard gohst hunters fan will agree that the evidence has changed from the begining.

Another episode that should never have been aired was the staged K2 meter episode. That meter was so fake it blew my mind that they were showing this while I was watching it. This adds to the people who have years of experience how could they let this happen? Because of the Sci Fi network, they don’t care about authentic evidence they care about money and ratings. And someone made a comment about not selling your integrity, when you in a position to make tons of money and have your own TV show we can talk then, until that happens no one can say what they would or wouldn’t do. So like I said when you reach that status talk to me about integrity, because money talks. You also have to remember CONTRACTS, if they said no to something which there contract says they must its call a breach of contract and you will be sued and possibly loose everything you already worked so hard to get. As Jason Hawse said himself “YOU SEE WHAT SCI FI WANTS YOU TO SEE.”

I thing GH should do a tag along program! take sceptics or anyone for that matter and bring them on investigations. like a diferent person each time and they are responsable for there own costs. i don't think they would do that! maybee they wouldn't cause they have things to hide?

Another quick point is...

Anybody who presents something publically expects to be criticised. The fact that this is a paranormal show intensifies that.

ANY footage or photograph of something supposedly paranormal will get both people believing it, and others crying "FAKE" or, if they're being polite "you were mistaken" no matter how much proof you have. And rightly so. I don't believe there is ANY footage of a supposed ghost, which no one can debunk, and everybody believes is real. Otherwise, everyone would just accept ghosts exist, no question.

For believers there is overwhelming proof of ghosts, and for non believers there will never be enough proof.

Theoretically, if everything that was shown on ghost hunters was completely 100% real there would STILL be people saying it is all faked.

What you must remember above everything is that Ghost hunters is a TV show. It is entertainment, that is all. Integrity has been compromised by definition.

I think everyone has agreed that some footage that has appeared on Ghost Hunters is dubious, it seems the main debate now is "who's fault is it?"

My money is on Sci Fi, even though TAPS are by no means completely resolved of responsibility. It doesn't mean they are bad people.

Here is another fact, none absolutely no evidence TAPS gets can be viewed by anyone except TAPS.

Now that is interesting.

No one has stated TAPS are bad people, I am saying there may be some type of fake evidence being presented as real evidence. In my opinion it is not TAPS it is the network..

oh yea, I can remember when they used to show evidence on there web page, but that to has been taken down.

Can you imagine if we were able to view all their evidence... that would be a clear message that the objectivity is still there! but no its taken off, i wonder why?

Copyright? Maybe it is property of Sci Fi?

If you look at youtube all the Ghost Hunters episodes are on there... with the collected evidence, to play and replay at your leisure. I think Sci Fi was very unhappy with this though, and I think a few members of youtube were banned, due to pressure on youtube by Sci Fi. Strangely, other users with Ghost Hunters uploaded were fine.

You hit the nail. THAT'S one of the key differences between real research and an entertainment product!

Real scientists put it all out there for peer review. If they have a dataset, they upload it (or should, anyway) to a consortium such as ICPSR so that others can examine the raw data. In physics, there are online prepublication archives. It is all very open. That's scientific research, darn it.

When somebody controls who can and can't see it, and what portions they can and can't see, it's not scientific research!

Gary Schwartz and Ciaran O'Keefe are scientists who are publishing research, and they have another foot solidly in the popular, mass-market media. It can be done. I don't think TAPS is doing it, certainly not through that show.

Yea but watching the episode is completely different than seeing the actual evidence that you can listen to the original... then we would be able to check up on there evidence. I mean if we formulated the same conclusion that taps did that would make them all the more credible. Unless sci-fi is playing it up that when we watched it, taps rep. would plummet! i mean yes its tv and all, but the whole point that we were making is that evidence is getting pushed that should not be! the only reason you wouldn't show your own evidence is that it doesn't match your findings. Yes there are anonimity issues and stuff like that but if your showing it on tv, the evidence should be fair game. What a good way to get people involved. But, the show would be boring, sci-fi doesn't want that now do they!

D**n right

Exactly, it is television. I wouldn't be surprised if TAPS signed a contract saying that they would not share their evidence with others, and that it's copyright of Sci Fi, otherwise, any show could use the footage, and as we all know money makes the world go round. Sci Fi would NEVER release footage for FREE. I mean, what if TAPS captured a 100% REAL ghost... the press would be all over it and Sci Fi would make an absolute fortune.

I do understand the fact that people think it's because they have something to hide, which could very well be the case, but, as i've said a million times, it's showbiz, it's about money, not integrity.

So lets petition the science channel to do a investigation type show and we can be super objective. people watching that channel prob. wouldn't mind not catching anything. build up a good rep. and then if you found something good it might be looked at as credible. I mean youll always have your people that would debunk it no matter what, but that is just the way it is! then i would post all evidence so anyone could listen and formulate there own conclusion. But it would be cool to have a show with nothing to hide!

Good idea! I had thought before about a TAPS Watchdog type group. That'll never happen though. Despite all the people on this board talking about this and the hundreds of thousands of skeptics, there is no real pressure to do such a thing. Their ratings are higher than they've ever been. They're making more money. They're getting more publicity. Why wreck a good thing by taking the chance of someone catching on to them live and in person?

Yes sir. They used to have the evidence on their own web page. But even then, it was just the clip we would see on television anyway. For true analysis, all of their footage should be reviewed by a fair minded skeptical group. Only then can we say what was really going on. Because, as we know, hours upon hours of footage gets cut down to 44 minutes for broadcast.

Oh, and yes, I'm sure Sci-Fi and Pilgrim Films have all rights to said footage. So, forget the open analysis idea. Ain't gonna happen.

Awesome. Well said. And thanks for the info on Gary Schwartz and Ciaran O'Keefe. I'm going to look into them further now.

My ten year old, Angela, watches these Ghostly programs almost every night. I don’t watch them because I feel that these shows are in the TV Fiction category. Star Trek has better science. I do hope that they will be taken off the air for fraud just in the way that Ofcom has taken off Most Haunted in the UK. Click here

Most Haunted is still on. Ofcom actually ruled that it was NOT scientific, and was only entertainment. It is proof of nothing, and the show continues to air under that proviso.

As for the video you linked to... i don't recall that... Did they actually include that in the reveal? Or was it jusr viewers who pointed it out? Speaking specifically of that video, It doesn't look like a manequin to me at all, there is not shadow behind it, and comparing it to the other shot comparing it, I don't see a manequin in there :s. However, it doesn't look like a ghost to me either, just the light reflecting off the wall, and if those are glass bottles, they may cause some strange light effects.

I doubt they knowingly fake evidence. I've had many conversations with Jason and Grant, not in a groupie/autograph setting. IMO they are sincere in their quest for the paranormal.

But as previously stated Sci-Fi channel and the production company are in command. They know what the audience wants to see. Let's face it: The reality of paranormal investigation is pretty boring. 80% of the time is spent just standing/sitting and waiting. Better than 90% of the time nothing happens. The vast majority of any evidence you collect is found much later on audio or video. That wouldn't make for very interesting weekly shows. The producers must know what they are doing - the show has been on for 5 years.

I did read a comment on another site that events shown are sometimes re-enactments of things experienced on the investigation but not directly caught on film when they happend. Can't confirm that.

I agree. Funny thing, a while back, I was reading a thread here, about how GH didn't find enough evidence and didn't find every place they visited haunted and people were aggravated about it. (Some of the same people who have posted here) Now that they are finding evidence at every turn and every place is haunted, people are still aggravated about it. There's just no pleasing!
I think it's highly possible that Sci-Fi keeps an eye on it's own forum and adjusts to try to appease the masses.
I think they may have made a mistake this time. I love the show and think that Jay and Grant started off in the right direction, I can only hope that they get it back on track and that Sci-Fi gives them the leeway to do so.

I am not sure about them faking so much but with all tv shows there has got to be an audiance pleaser, if its faked or enhanced I would bet its done by the studio..you can ask them at this link


http://beyondrealityevents.com/forums/index.php

This may have been covered but I missed it.
When you go to their live events such as the recent night at the Stanley Hotel, they actually give a seminar about what goes into each of these investigations. Many episodes are the result of several nights of monitoring and investigating. I believe SciFi edits (and overdubs music) poorly, but have a strong amount of faith in the work that the investigative team does. Some of their techniques are difficult to dispute, and now that the show has gotten a strong foothold (and stronger budget) they have been invited out to "more serious" locations including government facilities.

Do you know this for sure? I have heard them speak publically and they said that one of the things they made sure to get straight with Sci Fi before they started the show was that they had creative control. Either they were lying, or you are just guessing. I don't think they fake anything. I also think they discover many of their errors after the shows are taped, but by then it is too late because the episode has already aired.

They are on a site for 3-4 days, and that is all the time they have to consider evidence and make an announcement on what they feel is geniuine and what is not. It would challenge anyone to stay up all night for 2 days, taping and examining the evidence on the 3rd day, try to debunk it, and then present that evidence to the owner of the property. It's easy to sit back and use the brainpower of the millions of people on the Internet who are analyzing these shows for months and months after they air and find the mistakes that TAPS make. If you were them taping a show for a few days, travelling to the next location and doing it all over again I doubt you would do as well as they.

They tape a whole season in large chunks where they go to several sites in a row and then they get some time off. The show makes you believe these guys are sitting around at home being plumbers waiting for that phonecall for a new case. This isn't true at all. They already have the whole season planned before you ever see the first episode. They know where they are going, and they travel for months at a time to get the whole season taped.

They make mistakes, but THEY DO NOT FAKE ANYTHING.

Good post Jennie, they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't.

I think maybe another "group" is just being negative about it.

TAPS actually still debunks a lot of their own stuff, plain and simple. What they show as "evidence" is just the stuff they can't explain. If THEY are being fooled, as they were on the Queen Mary, it's hard to fault them.

I honestly do not think that they intentionally fake evidence. As for the plumbing scenes...duh. Of course it's loosely scripted.

Brian was a dip-stick that lied, screwed up, and thought every bump or mote of dust was paranormal. Good riddance.

Why does it seem the Black Swamp guys are on their case?

If you were reading the whole thread you would have seen that me, swamp, and kb all like ghost hunters. it was just the sudden leap forward in the amount and quality of the evidence. at the beginning they were objective like crazy and now more stuff is going trough. we were not on there cases. i have watched every episode many times and it is definitely different now. true GH lovers would agree i think!

I did take the time to read the whole thread. I just don't see it that way.
I think they do lean towards being objective to this day.
I agree, they may very well be fooled by themselves quite often, like the form in the locker incident. That may be Grant as has been speculated. I just don't think they are intentionally faking evidence as has been implied or asked here in this thread.

You guys are absolutely right. You just hit the nail on the head.

I see you're referring to me here. Let me go over your response here, line by line:

As you would have seen had you truly read and understood my prior posts, I have mentioned how Taps does a good job debunking most things. Ive stated that they do debunk as any paranormal investigative group should. So, yes, all credit to TAPS okay? Calm down.

I never have stated anything about the plumbing scenes. I know it's a "docu-drama." and meant to be entertaining. I also never said Brian shouldn't have been removed from TAPS. I would have kicked him out, too. If you're going to throw that stuff in there, at least have the decency to quote and reply to those specific people who did mention the plumbing scenes or Brian. You've made it look here like it was me who mentioned these things when I did not. Please, a little courtesy, okay?

Actually, your entire post is filled with stuff that doesn't much relate to the things I've said. I mean, you even take exception with me saying they've faked evidence...and I don't believe I've said that either. Look back at the posts I've made. I've included it as a possibility, but I also said it's likely it is Sci Fi and/or the production company tampering or editing scenes poorly.

I HAVE, however, said that TAPS is not being as analytical as they should be in debunking or throwing out evidence. And I DID say that the number of inconsistencies in their evidence and the allegations of tampering deserve a response; if not from TAPS, then from Sci-Fi. When Jason Hawes says on Beyond Reality Radio that "Sci Fi sees what Sci Fi wants you to see," that isn't a response. In fact, it's almost an admission that what we are seeing isn't real. All I'm asking for is the issue to be cleared up.

See, you are forgetting that I am a fan of the show. I've been watching for years. I'll continue to watch. I'll continue to listen to Beyond Reality Radio. I think TAPS does great work in the field of paranormal research and investigation. HOWEVER, if they don't nip these allegations and suspicions in the bud soon, it's only going to continue to mount. And they'll just end up as another show, like Paranormal State and Most Haunted, that is pointed and laughed at by the hard-line skeptics of the world who are denying the paranormal exists.

Why you are calling me or my team out is beyond me. Because we've committed the sin of questioning TAPS? Oh my! If that's all we've done wrong, then I'd ask why you are defending them so passionately. You see, Eggumby, this is a forum. People are here to exchange ideas and maybe even engage in a lively debate. If you can't handle that, don't respond. I have no problem with your difference in opinion, I just wish you would more accurately respond to MY argument if you're going to try and call me out again.

Thank you for your time. Many blessings to you and yours.

I think they went for the nail, but hit their own thumbs.

I'll agree Taps has made mistakes. We all do. We're human. But my argument is that they're making repeated analytical mistakes that people with over 15 years experience shouldn't make. There are people posting the same argument in this forum that don't have 1/3rd of the experience Jay and Grant do, yet they are being more analytical. Wouldn't you agree there's something wrong with that?

If they have 3-4 days on site, that's still 2 or 3 days more than the groups without the benefit of a television audience and large crew have. If anything, it gives them MORE time to be analytical and find reasonable doubt in their audio and video footage.

As far as this "damned if they do, damned if they don't" stuff by those you quoted...I think that's just being lazy. I know we all want to believe nothing strange is going on. Some of us, it seems, want to believe more strongly than others. So strongly, in fact, that it is clouding their sense of reason. Look, I wish there wasn't anything strange going on either. But if you remain open minded to the possibility, then look at the amount of inconsistencies which are piling up, you may start to see it too.

Thank you for your time and attention.

I agree with you that the network is behind it.

I didn't feel like reading a couple of pages, so here is my simple reply.

No duh? It is a TELEVISION show. Entertainment purposes only, and sometimes prone to cheesy catch phrases. Even if it was "Reality Television"...it would not be suitable to be called that. As there is a camera, the way they act would change drastically as they would wish to present themselves in a more "fashionable" manner. The evidence is fake, as the show is. Saying it is not set up would be like saying "The Hills" is as true as George W. Bush being moderately intelligent. It would be factual yes...to a degree. That is only because that the events that took place, did, in fact...take place, regardless of being set up or not. TAPS may have been a real Investigating team...but when you get your own TV show....say goodbye to plausible probability that the evidence is genuine.

I've heard all about the inconsistencies on the TAPS forum. I don't find it all that strange, but that's probably because my life doesn't hinge on what GH finds. It's a television show and a very interesting one.
I was only pointing out that people are never satisfied with......nevermind, I'm too lazy to type it. See you were right!

Over 1600 posts on this board and that's what you were too lazy to type? Seriously, I would be interested in your point. I won't even infer you have no life if you respond, okay?