Mercer;

utt 539... ...1321a. Nut (is) she who cannot be fertilized without putting (down) her arms,

Allen;
Nut cannot copulate nor can she give her arms, as he emerges and this Pepi ascends to the sky

As is so often the case, one of these translations is simply wrong.
The meanings are simply different. I know everyone is just nuts
about Allen but it is he who is out of step with the others. The ot-
ers are internally consistent as well but this can't well apply to Al-
len since his translations are so often simple opposites.

I have no problem with the rest of his translation of these lines. If
"nor can" be substituted with "lest" then he would be in step and the
meaning would be identical.



The ascension ceremony for the king apparently took place at day
break. This was an eight day event culminating in his ascension on-
to the pyramid.



This does make sense though. Thank you. Shu and at least a couple
of the other Gods also stood when the sky was separated from the
earth.



I'm really not very familiar with Allen and have seen only about fif-
teen of his translations. Many of these are have virtually opposite
meaning to what had existed. I'm surprised that his translations are
not seen as revolutionary rather than evolutionary. I'm not a big fan
of Faulkner but his translations are equivalencies with Mercer in most
cases. What I prefer about Mercer is that I believe it gives a better
flavor of the way the Egyptians thought. I have no clue as to whether
it's a better translation or not.

Why is one wrong? Aside from "fertilized" and "copulate" they essentially say the same thing. I should also add that the part beginning "as he emerges" from Allen is from the next line (Mercer's 1321b), and I tossed it in just to flesh out the excerpt because the passage about Nut itself otherwise doesn't make much sense.

I suspect Mercer was being a bit prudish in his choice of "fertilized," but it's incorrect. I've never seen Sethe's original transliterations from which Mercer was working, nor do I have a copy of Faulkner's translations available, but I can demonstrate why Allen's translation of "Nut cannot copulate nor can she give her arms..." is the more accurate.

First, here is a copy of the relevant excerpt from Sethe's original hieroglyphic transcriptions. You can see the line marked "1321a" third down from the top--this is the line of glyphs in question. Transliterated it would be:

Nt n nk ns(i) n rdi ns(i) awy=s

Translated one at a time:

Nt = Nut

n = negation ("cannot"; this is the glyph that looks like two little arms shrugging)

nk = copulate, sexually penetrate (note that the determinative is the male phallus penetrating the Hm(t) glyph, for "woman")

ns(i) = she (a particular rule of grammar requiring this dependent pronoun)

n = negation (Allen uses the conjunction "nor," which is more precise than Mercer's preposition "without")

rdi = give

ns(i) = she

awy=s = her arms

Literally it would be something like "Nut cannot she copulate nor give she her arms." Allen cleaned it up to be more readable in English, as all translators do for their particular languages, but clearly Allen's translation is more precise. I should add that the use of the "woman" Hm(t) glyph in the word "copulate" is rather archaic. Even by this time in the Old Kingdom the same word for "copulate" (nk) usually employed only the male phallus for the determinative. The whole passage is about Nut's being kept from sexually uniting with Geb.



The use of the particle n definitely implies straightforward negation as in "cannot" and "nor," depending on syntax. The conjunction "lest" would have a subtly different meaning but still implies the intention of preventing something; however, even Mercer doesn't use this because it's not correct with that n particle. For some reason he used "without," which in the ancient Egyptian is xmt, and it is not part of this excerpt. His "without putting (down)" is not accurate, so it would seem he was struggling with the translation.

This is another reason I would prefer Allen. He is an expert in the ancient Egyptian language; Mercer was not. The fact that I, a lowly layperson, can sit here and break down this simple passage from the Pyramid Texts and come up with the same thing as Allen's work, suggests how far we've come with our understanding of hieroglyphs. I'm not a real Egyptologist. I don't even play one on TV.



A problem of past translators is their liberal approach to the method. An incorrect word here or a lyrical-sounding phrase there might dress up a translation, but it might also render a translation wrong. Early translators even went to the lengths of translating Egyptian inscriptions so they sounded biblical in nature. Every translator approaches his or her work differently and a bit of liberal application is fine on occasion, but caution is always called for. Allen's grammar on the language is considered the modern text to consult, to the point that it has supplanted Gardiner's venerable text in many classrooms. I don't mean to knock Mercer, but when it comes to translations I'll always go to the recognized expert.

Kmt_Sesh;

Well you've ruined a perfectly fine joke apparently.

But, "Nut cannot copulate nor can she give her arms." can also be the result of being
held up by all the Gods (when he ascends and lifts himself to the sky). Of course pic-
turing her trying is pretty funny in itself.

Thanks anyway.

I'm probably much too hard on Allen but to hear some people tell it, there was no Pyr-
amid Texts until there was Allen.

As long as I have your attention can I ask a big favor? In utterance #685 what do you and/ or Allen make of this line.

2069a. A bnbn-bread is in the house of Seker; a leg of meat is in the house of Anubis.

cladking wrote:


I'd guess that most professionals still prefer Faulkner's translations. He was one of the all-time greats. It takes awhile for Egyptologists to latch onto a new source but I imagine that's what Allen will become in time. The advantage to Allen's translations are three-fold:

1) His book includes the Pyramid Texts of all the royals who had them in their monuments in Dynasty 5 and Dynasty 6.
2) His translations are the most up-to-date.
3) At around $30, his book is very affordable to most everyone.



That's an odd one, isn't it? You can see the actual glyphs here, second down from the top. Allen's translation is: "...the benben is in Sokar's enclosure, the foreleg is in Anubis' house" (his Spell 519, this one from the pyramid of Pepi II). It would be transliterated:

bnbn m Hwt Skr xpS m pr Inpw

bnbn = the cult-focus monument of Heliopolis (ancient Iun)
m = in
Hwt = mansion, enclosure, palace
Skr = Sokar
xpS = foreleg
m = in
pr = house
Inpw = Anubis

benben in enclosure Sokar foreleg in house Anubis = ...the benben (is) in Sokar's enclosure, the foreleg (is) in Anubis' house.

I'm not sure where Mercer is getting "bnbn-bread." Perhaps it was an error in translating Sethe's work or, more likely, Sethe as the source was wrong. I can't say, but I guess the person at fault was confused by the determinative following the bnbn glyph. It looks kind of like a bowling pin and is in fact the White Crown, symbol of Upper Egypt. Usually the determinative is a small triangle, akin to a miniature pyramid, but in the Pyramid Texts we see lots of royal icons replacing traditional determinatives (or this could be an archaic aspect of the texts, but I'm not sure). I'll provide another example of this in a bit.

Otherwise, both Mercer and Allen are pretty close to each other, wouldn't you say? "Foreleg" is the precise translation of xpS (it's even spelled out phonetically, with that fat foreleg for a determinative), but Mercer's "a leg of meat" is essentially correct. You often see servants in tomb reliefs from this period carrying xpS toward the deceased's false door because they are offerings.

This portion of spells appears on the north wall of the Antechamber and falls under the category of Libation and Anointing at Dawn, in the Spells for Approaching the Sky. In other words the deceased king is being made pure for his ascension to the heavens. Both Sokar and Anubis are gods of the afterlife, and in this portion of the deceased king's journey he is leaving the Duat to join the heavens. The foreleg is an offering to Anubis and the benben to Sokar, so that these gods will allow the king to leave the Duat, but I admit I don't understand how the benben works as an offering. I'll have to look into that more. It's one of those mystical things that's probably just way over my head.

I was looking at the line prior to the one about which you were asking, which is the first line here in Sethe's drawings. I'm really baffled by where Mercer gets "'I.t-wt.t-serpent" from. I think you've made note of this curious word before but this is the first time I've found it in the actual hieroglyphs.

Mercer translates this line as: The perfume of an 'I.t-wt.t-serpent is on N.

Allen translates it as: The Firstborn Thing's scent is on this [name]. (In this case I was again looking at Pepi II's texts in Allen's book, as long as I was there.)

It's transliterated as: sT(y) xt SAa-t(w)t ir [NAME] pn

I won't bother you with a breakdown of each element again but xt SAa-t(w)t is where Mercer seems to get it confused (what he transliterates as "'I.t-wt.t-serpent"). That serpent on the bowl that you see in Sethe's drawings is another example of using a royal icon for a determinative where it wouldn't ordinarily go. Literally translated, xt SAa-t(w)t is "the first thing to be complete." Using the serpent on the bowl (a symbol of Lower Egypt) references the king to the act of creation or birth, as in the creation deities in Egyptian religion. In fact, in the texts of Pepi I, the symbol is the White Crown on a bowl (again, symbolic of Upper Egypt); Mercer translates this as "'I.t-wt.t-crown."

It's quite possible that Sethe and Mercer did not know how to translate xt SAa-t(w)t, or even that a translation for it was unknown in their time, period. It's not a mystery now. I used Faulkner's dictionary to translate it.

I'm popping back in here to note that the "benben" and "foreleg" interpretation is my own, based on context and ritual practices. Allen does not elaborate on this passage himself. Take that for what you will.

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled program.

I'm still trying to digest this.

Later...

LOL I'm not trying to rush you or anything. It just occurred to me that I didn't make that point clear. You had asked about what Allen might think, and unfortunately he doesn't say anything about this passage. I don't want to assign interpretations where they don't belong.

I knew that.

I've always liked utt 685 because it's one of the few that use hyperbole and
is meant figuratively. This is seen in utt's 272- 274 as well. I've always wanted
to use it for many points but it has a few minor and a major flaw for this. It's the
worst fit for "I[].t-wt.t" to mean "yeast gas" but Faulkner had trouble with this as
well since "young thing" doesn't fit the other usages. Since the utterance men-
tions fumigation, perfume, and incense it's not really far fetched, merely a worst
fit for this word. All the other fits are hand in glove. There's every possibility that
some serpents are geysers and this would make it a close fit.

The big problem with this one is line 2069a. "A bnbn-bread is in the house of Sek-
er; a leg of meat is in the house of Anubis." which Kmt_Sesh so graciously trans-
lated. This is wholly out of place on several levels. Primarily is that Seker's enclo-
sure would hardly exist. This would appear to be the place where the []nw-boat de-
scended to the base of the pyramid filled with water in the name of Seker from the
geyser. If there were an enclosure at all t certainly wouldn't include either a ben
ben nor a bread. Anubis runs the pyramid top. There could quite possibly be a
simple cafeteria or the like.

Since everyone seems to agree there's no point arguing meaning on this score.
Utterances don't normally change their referents so either this one does suddenly
in the last line or I have a lot of errors in the interpretation.

Utterance 685.

2063a. To say: The waters of life which are in the sky, the waters of life which are in the earth come.
2063b. The sky burns for thee, the earth trembles for thee, before the birth of the god.
2064a. The two mountains divide, a god comes into being, the god has power over his body.
2064b. The two mountains divide, N. comes into being, N. has power over his body.
2065a. Behold N., his feet shall be kissed by the pure waters,
2065b. which come into being through Atum, which the phallus of Shu makes, which the vulva of Tefnut brings into being.
2066a. They have come to thee, they have brought to thee the pure waters which issue from their father;
2066b. they purify thee, they fumigate thee, N., with incense.
2067a. Thou liftest up the sky with thy hand; thou treadest (lit. layest) down the earth with thy foot.
2067b. A libation is poured out at the gate of N.; the face of every god is washed.
2068a. Thou washest thine arms, Osiris; thou washest thine arms N.
2068b. Thy rejuvenescence is a god. Your third is a wd-offering.
2068c. The perfume of an ’Iḫ.t-wt.t-serpent is on N.

This appears to be something akin to a blessing for a new geyser.

2069a. A bnbn-bread is in the house of Seker; a leg of meat is in the house of Anubis.
2069b. N. is intact; the ’itr.t-palace is standing; the month (i.e. the moon) is born; the nome lives,
2070a. which measurements have traced. Thou tillest the barley; thou tillest the spelt,
2070b. with which N. will be presented for ever.

The fact that this water will be used for tilling might imply a pyramid will be built.

I suppose 2069a refers to temples of Seker and Anubis though this still doesn't
seem right. It's surprising they'd make a temple to the "chief of Pdws" (Seker)
at all, though putting a ben ben or bread in it is little stretch.

This one has a great ring to it but it's among the worst fits for geysers.

Faulkner is inconsistent with his translation for "I[].t-wt.t". Of course language
can be inconsistent as well. It could be a sort of euphimism or something.

I'm pleased to hear that Faulkner is still taken seriously. He is quite consistent
with Mercer and I hate arguing apples and oranges.

Again, thanks for your help even if it wasn't at all the results I was hoping for.

Here's another mention of the ladder in #572;

1473b. He brought to N. the gods belonging to heaven;
1473c. he assembled to him the gods belonging to the earth.
1474a. They put their arms under him.
1474b. They made a ladder for N., that he might ascend to heaven on it.

Elsewhere it says that the ladder for the dead king is made
by men and Gods. The God provides the Pdw's (lifts) and
the men are those with ready hands.

Here's another that I haven't posted before.

There are "sky arcs" (rainbows) all through the land of Horus where the great pyramids were built. These rainbows are referred to in a few different ways.

This is my favorite;

Utterance 604.

1680a. To say: Raise thyself up, father, N., the great; sit before them;
1680b. the apertures of the (heavenly) windows are open for thee;
1680c. broad are thy steps of light;
1680d. this is said to thee, father N. To say: O! Ho!'

#414

737a. To say: O N.,
737b. take thy garment of light, take thy veil upon thee,
737c. clothe thyself with the eye of Horus, which was in Tȝi.t,
737d. that it may gain thy respect among the gods, that it make for thee a sign of recognition among the gods,
737e. that thou mayest take the wrr.t-crown by means of it among the gods,
737f. that thou mayest take the wrr.t-crown by means of it with Horus lord of men.

Tȝi.t is referred to as the "nest" in which Osiris and Set were found.

They apparently used a very robust form of communication for operating
the pyramid. With so much going on this would have been important to
protect against unexpected and accidental movement. If their inspection
process was good there would be relatively little danger of accidents but
the equipment damage would be a consistent and nagging problem with-
out good communication. The biggest threat to human life while lifting
stone would be the counterweight becoming too heavy while the ascender
was still being loaded. Loaders could easily become crushed. There would
also be danger to anyone repairing or operating the counterweight if the
system were reset too early.

I believed they used four signalmen who were able to communicate all
necessary instructions. The "ferryman" could start filling the counterweight
even as the ascender was still being loaded if he knew the approximate
weight of the stone already in the ascender. Then he'd need only a minute
or less to finish filling to make the pdws (lift). One signalman at each side of
the pyramid and another on each side of the top with mirrors could easily
accomplish this task.

There are several apparent mentions of this process;

#271

...390a. N. ascends on the ladder which his father Rē‘ made for him,
390b. Horus and Set lay hold of the arm of N.; they take him to the D[].t.
391a. He (Horus) to whom it was signalled (winked): "Guard thyself against him to whom (this) is ordered";
391b. he (Set) to whom it was ordered: "Guard thyself against him to whom (this) is signalled (winked)."

#266

358g. The two reed-floats of heaven are placed for N.,
358h. that N. may ferry over with them to the horizon, to Rē‘.
359a. The mn‘-canal is open; the Marsh of Reeds is filled with water;
359b. the Winding Watercourse is inundated.
360a. N. will certainly ferry over to the horizon, to Harachte.
360b. Let there be brought to N. these four friendly ones,
360c. the traffic-guards, the wearers of side-locks,
360d. who sit on their d'm-sceptres on the eastern side of heaven.

Man....that's alot of utterances, I once read the entire Emrald Tablets of Thot, I was sick, I got bored of pwning people in BF 2 so I decided to read it, quite interesting stuff, makes modern Sci-Fi's Stargate SG-1 boring. I still think Comte De St. Germain, and De Gabralis' books were even better, I don't think I spelt those correctly, imput please.

EA

I am extremely impressed by the Emeral Tablets but they are
obviously just extraordinary fakes. They are of huge interest
to me only because whoever wrote them has a lot of knowledge
to be able to do so good a job.

I think I can quote about 70% of the Pyramid Texts to prove the
point and have quoted well over a quarter of it on one thread or
another. I would certainly appear that the Pyramid Texts is about
building using water as a counterweight.