I find it remarkable that people are surprised that there are no records of how the pyramids were built and while the Egyptians drew everything there were no drawings surviving of the means used to construct them. They often use the argument that there are no drawings or descriptions as evidence that they must not have had water under pressure to fill counterweights. But this seems to be the only proffered explanation which is consistent with this historical fact.

The drawing of the Eyes of Horus and Wing of Thot necessary to channel Seker into the []-nw-boat in order to lift the reed floats of heaven would be a somewhat difficult depiction even for a modern artist but using ancient techniques it would be most challenging. If this weren't sufficient to eliminate the survival of drawings it should be considered that if the water source were cold water geysers then their existence and usage might constitute a military secret. These geysers are very easily disrupted and there would be huge amounts of infrastructure associated with their ability to distribute water to important trade crops. It seems to usually be forgotten that the Nile was under water during the peak growing season each year. Crops growing during this time might not only stave off starvation but be critical to trade with their neighbors.

So one might ask, why are their no written descriptions? How is it that something so important would not be written down for posterity. There is a four part answer to this question; first, it was still a military secret. Much of this action took place behind covers during much of history. This was the "hidden place". Secondly, is the simple fact that exceedingly little survives from the time before these geysers ceased around 2300 BC. The things which survive are simply not in this category so there is no record. Thirdly is that these people were highly superstitious and magic was very important to them. Both required that they not invoke their deities for trivial matters. They knew which side their bread was buttered on and they didn't want to upset the status quo. As the geysers began to fail this would become increasingly important.

Fourthly, and most importantly, is that it does survive. There are thousands of words in the Pyramid Texts which paint this story a piece at a time. There are many more words which describe how a very religious and superstitious people view a natural phenomena such as geysers.

Here's one of my favorites.

utterance #473;


926a. To say: The two reed-floats of heaven are placed by the morning-boat for Rē‘,

926b. that Rē‘ may ferry over on them to Horus who inhabits the horizon, to the horizon.

926c. The two reed-floats of heaven are placed by the evening-boat for Horus who inhabits the horizon,

926d. that Horus who inhabits the horizon may ferry over on them to Rē‘, to the horizon.

927a. The two reed-floats of heaven are caused to descend for N. by the morning-boat,

927b. that N. may mount on them to Rē‘, to the horizon.

927c. The two reed-floats of heaven are caused to descend for N. by the evening-boat,

927d. that N. may mount on them to Horus, who inhabits the horizon, to the horizon.

928a. N. mounts on high on this eastern side of heaven where the gods are born;

928b. N. will be born (anew there) like Horus, like him of the horizon.

929a. N. is justified; the ka of N. is justified;

929b. the sister of N. is Sothis; the mother of N. is the morning star.

930a. N. hath found the spirits well-equipped by reason of their mouth,

930b. sitting on the two shores of the śḥśḥ-lake,

930c. the drinking-bowl of each spirit well-equipped by reason of his mouth.

930d. "Hast thou no eyes?", so said they to N.,

930e. the spirits well-equipped by reason of their mouth.

930f. Said he, "a spirit well-equipped by reason of his mouth."

931a. "How has this happened to thee?", so said they to N.,

931b. the spirits well-equipped by reason of their mouth,

931c. "that thou art come to this place which is more august than any place?"

931d. N. is come to this place which is more august than any place.

932a. The two reed-floats of heaven are placed by the morning-boat for Rē‘,

932b. that Rē‘ may ferry over on them to Horus who inhabits the horizon, to the horizon.

932c. The two reed-floats of heaven are placed by the evening-boat for Horus who inhabits the horizon,

932d. that Horus who inhabits the horizon may ferry over on them to Rē‘, to the horizon,

933a. because the two reed-floats of heaven were caused to descend for N. by the morning-boat,

933b. that N. may mount on them for life and joy to Rē‘, to the horizon;

933c. because the two reed-floats of heaven were caused to descend for N. by the evening-boat,

933d. that N. may mount on them to Horus who inhabits the horizon, to the horizon.

934a. N. mounts on high on this eastern side of heaven, where the gods are born;

934b. N. was born (anew there) like Horus, like him of the horizon.

935a. N. is justified; the ka of N. is justified.

935b. Praise be to N.; praise be to the ka of N.

935c. The sister of N. is Sothis; the mother of N. is the morning star.

936a. N. comes (to be) with you:

936b. N. walks with you in the Marsh of Reeds;

936c. he pastures as you pasture in the field of malachite;

937a. N. eats of that which you eat;

937b. N.. lives on that on which you live;

937c. N. clothes himself with that wherewith you clothe yourselves;

937d. N. anoints himself with that wherewith you anoint yourselves;

937e. N. takes water with you out of the mn-canal (or, lake of the nurse) of N.,

937f. the drinking-bowl of each spirit well-equipped by reason of his mouth.

938a. N. sits as he who lives in the great ’itr.t-palace;

938b. N. commands (each) spirit well-equipped by reason of his mouth;

938c. N. sits on the two shores of the śḥśḥ-lake;

938d. N. commands (each) spirit well-equipped by reason of his mouth.


I would go through this and describe the actions of the counterweights going up and down but it is a little complicated and I'm not certain I understand the whole thing. More importantly though is that this is not the Great Pyramid. This is probably the system used on Djoser's or another of the earlier kings.

The Egyptian word for "pyramid" means "instrument to ascend" or "instrument of ascension". I believe that this instrument was also necessary to keep the sun traveling across the sky over the horizon. The "horizon" was the place these valley dwellers could actually see the horizon. The ancient Egyptian name for the Great Pyramid is "Khufu's Horizon" and it is here on top of the pyramid that was that horizon.

The pyramids were tied closely to the religion and were important to the king's ascension but they were not tombs in the early days. There's also a great deal in the Pyramid Texts about the ceremonies involved in the ascension of the king to heaven. He hardly stopped at the eastern side of the pyramid but continued on to become a spirit among the imperishable stars, the stars which never set. It appears the internal organs were given to Seker, the Head of Lifts, to be purified in the Marsh of Reeds. Even these reeds were an important export item.

It's interesting that the last of the big pyramids was never completed. Something apparently happened relatively quickly to stop its construction. After this pyramids were far far smaller and some are known to have included burials.

Finally, there is a tendency for the Pyramid Texts to be in a sort of novel form. (they need to be put in the proper order) Utterances are often related when they are nearby one another. Here's a little snippet from #275; 950a. The morning-boat calls N.; it is, N. who bails it out.

that is way to much writing for some ppl to read at once if i were u i would post a short summary of what ur talking about

It's an interesting way of looking at things.

Good theory. Question have you been to the pyramids in Egypt? I have!!!

Part of the problem is that much is omitted here as well. It's part
of a series of threads on the subject of Giza geysers.

In a nutshell, there appears to be significant cultural, historical, phy-
sical, geological, and circumstantial evidence that the entire region
in which the pyramids of Egypt were built was a vast cold water gey-
ser field.

The water from these geysers was captured near the peak of their
trajectory and used to fill counterweights which lifted stones up the
side of the pyramid.

It's a lot of reading but this thread is the most comprehensive on this
site to date;

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...448&hl=djed

I would very much like to go take a look but it doesn't seem likely.

I can only imagine how impressive they must be first hand.

I've done a lot of work moving material by hand.

This includes moving large rocks great distance and forming them into useful shapes. Very
early on in this kind of work one learns to use gravity to one's advantage. You never move
a stone uphill if you can move it down. You use levers and ramps.

One thing you never do is fight a heavy weight. Pulling a stone up a ramp is extremely hard
work. As you lean forward to exert force on the stone you are quickly adding forces pulling
your feet backward. The steeper the ramp and heavier the stone the more impossible it be-
comes to move.

If these were merely massive piles of finely cut stone it would be easier to believe that they
used tremendous effort and huge numbers of men to build them. But they are far more than
massive. They are so large that it's impossible for me to imagine even the greatest number of
the most highly motivated men being able to complete the task. Even if they had a sufficient
population to devote this amount of manpower there is no room to work in such a constricted
area. The entire pyramid covers only 13 acres and they couldn't stack men up on the sides and
work.

The first thing I figured was that they had to have some means to bring effort to bear. Ramps
are out because they can't accomodate the manpower and the pyramid is too close to the quarry.
This left few means using only ancient technology but counterweights seemed a good solution.
Everyone could simply be employed at the task of hauling ballast to the top of the pyramid. A
few bucket brigades on each side could supply enough weight to move a great deal of stone.

I was really surprised when a cursory examination showed not only evidence of counterweights
but evidence of water.

It is a different way of looking at the problem. It's a way that could only be developed with the
use of google and search engines. Without satellite pictures and search engines mere mortals
would give up on this pursuit of this notion long before they found the Pyramid Texts.

...At least I would have.

Yeah, there's more in the Pyramid Texts related to pyramid construction.

Here's a favorite:

Utterance 456.

852a. To say: Greetings to thee, Great One, son of a Great One!
852b. The śȝw of the pri-wr run for thee;
852c. the pri-nsr work for thee;
852d. the apertures of the (heavenly) windows are open for thee;
852e. the steps of light are revealed for thee.

"Steps of light" is a rainbow. The "windows" are the weirs and dams directing Osiris/ Seker into the []nw-boat. Elsewhere in the texts rainbows are referred to as simply "bows". The heiroglyph for this is "sky arc". There are more than a dozen such references. Incredibly there is even a single reference to a "light scatterer"! This is utterance #570 which begins "the face of heaven is washed. "1455a. for N. is a star, the light-scatterer of the sky."

853a. Greetings to thee, sole one, of whom it is said, he will live always!
853b. Horus comes, he with the long stride comes;
853c. he comes, he who wins power over the horizon, who wins power over the gods.

Horus is the spirit of the geyser field, the God of the horizon. "Chief of the D[].t (geyser)". The long strides are observation of the fact that his primary manifestations act in tandem to some degree; one eruption would seem to lead to another far away. The God has a long stride. It might well be related to the distance traveled by the lifting (ma'at) boat as well. Manetho said the stones were pulled up to the pyramids 300' at a time. This would be the total distance traveled by Seker and the []nw-boat. Again... ...long strides.

854a. Greetings to thee, soul, who is in his red blood,
854b. sole one, as his father named him, wise one, as the gods called him,
854c. who took his place, as the sky was separated (from the earth), at the place where thy heart was satisfied,

Horus took his place as the sky was separated from the Earth!!!

This is remarkable imagery. Just as the Bible says the expanse of the sky was inserted between the waters, the Egyptian belief was quite similar. This might be the way these people would view geysers; as a result of the sky separating from the Earth.

This utterance goes on in the same vein and is one of my favorites.

http://www.wyldwytch.com/weavings/reading_...ypt/pyramid.htm

Here is a very critical part of the Pyramid Texts. It is the end of #506;

...1101a. Further, to say: Men and gods, your arms under me,
1101b. while you raise me and lift me up to heaven,
1101c. as the arms of Shu (were) under the sky as he lifted her up--
1101d. to heaven, to heaven, to the great seat, among the gods!

The king is being lifted by MEN and Gods. It is quite clear all through the
Pyramid Texts that men are constructing the ladder and this says further
that men are necessary to raise and lift him to heaven. Wherever this oc-
curs is a place that men can go!

Shu is another geyser and again we see the imagery of Shu causing the sky
to rise up. ...Rise to heaven, to the great seat among the Gods.






edited to add;

Utterance #555

...1376a. The ropes are knotted; the boats of N. are tied together

1376b. for the son of Atum--hungry and thirsty, thirsty and hungry--

1376c. on the southern shore of the Winding Watercourse.

One boat is "hungry" for a load and the other is "thirsty" to lift it up. After it ascends the stones (or "N") are removed from the hungry boat and it becomes thirsty to descend. The thirsty boat becomes hungry to ascend and lift more stone.

1377a. Thot, who is in the shade of his bush,

1377b. put N. upon the tip of thy wing.,

1377c. on the northern shore of the Winding Watercourse.

Thot is the God of writing and scribes. The upper eye of Horus which captures the water of Osiris is often said to be on the wing of Thot. And, of course, N is always equivalent to Osiris.

The scribe sits in the shade counting and recording stones or "sons of Atum" ascending.

I'm not seeing the connection of this script to geysers. It seems like religious process and description to me.. rather than refering to geysers. Is there any geological evidence for these supposed geysers, or is this all interpretation of the pyramid texts? If it is all interpretation, it seems that someone is doing a poor job of taking into account the context of the texts and what they seek to describe. I would call it more than a stretch to connect these texts with descriptions of geysers.

- Regards, Bokonon

I am afraid that I cannot see the connection with "geysers either" (how poetic is that?), I also cannot be sure that there was sufficient geologic activity at the time of Pyramid building to support geyser formation. The Egyptians at the time certainly had access to plenty of water, and using Occams Razor I would suggest that if it was being used a a counter - balance to the weight of the stones. then lifting the water using a simple treadmill would suffice. IMO

Taken in a vacuum none of the evidence for geysers is compelling
but the amount of circumstantial evidence is nearly overwhelming.
Phrases in the Pyramid Texts like; "the inundation when it tosses",
can certainly be explained in other ways. Boats tied together and
going up and down can be a part of fanciful imaginations in a culture
which was heavily dependent on water for everything.

But it's in the physical evidence which leads one in this direction to
start with that some of the more difficult to explain facts reside. The
existence of the bifurcated sides on some of the pyramids with a
groove in the middle of this simply screams that there was a great
amount of weight going up and down the side of the pyramid.

Look at the top few pictures here and try to find a better explanation
for the grooves.

http://www.catchpenny.org/concave.html

The existence of causeways, evidence of water at these elevations
where water shouldn't be possible, and salt deposits all suggest that
there might have been a steady supply of water. Horapollo implied
that the ancints believed water arose from the ground and Manetho
said stones moved to the pyramids 300' at a time. The entire region
is riddled with caves and cavern and there's even a huge sinkhole a
few miles north of the Fayuum. Osiris is the Lord of Caverns and is
carried on the back of Set.

There's no proof of geysers and finding such will likely be impossible
on google. If evidence hasn't been observed on any of these sites
then it's improbable that it will be uncovered in a net search. There
is a smoking gun though which was provided from the Soviets. When
the country broke up a lot of scientific information was released inc-
luding data for construction of the Aswan High Dam. They had discov-
ered that there had in the distant past been an enormous canyon ex-
tending from Aswan to the Medeterranean. This filled in over the eons
and accounts for the large numbers of caves in the area. They had al-
so discovered that there was a long series of aquifer basins in the bed-
rock extending all the way to the headwaters of the current Nile. At
the drainage basin boundary in central Africa is a very young mountain
chain which rose up and cut off part of the drainage basin. The longest
river in the world used to be significantly longer!! On the south side of
these mountains is one of only three carbonated lakes in the world. It
takes little imagination to see one more drainage basin at the northern
foot of these mountains which had been carbonated and tipped to the
north in antiquity.

The Nile and these basins all parallel the African Rift and the cause of
their existence is probably related to it. This seems to imply one more
such basin is just that much less of a stretch.

Seen in this light the Pyramid Texts take on new meaning and they are
consistent with the other facts!

Keep in mind that the inundation started in early July and then the fields
stayed under water for months. This is a highly inopportune time for farm
activities to cease. They had water year round but it was not widely avail-
able for irrigation since lifting water using muscle power is not possible for
more than a very few feet. The crops grown simply won't be enough to
feed the men and animals lifting the water. During the dry season all the
Nile backwaters would become mosquito infested swamps.

There's no doubt that a water source at elevation would have been a tre-
mendous boon for them. They might even build their cities around such
sources.

Let me ask this; since the Egyptians described and portrayed everything
they did then why are there no other descriptions for how they built the
pyramids? If they had geysers then this explains itself so constitutes even
further evidence.

Surely there are other people who find it concerning that no explanation for
these has ever been put forth that sounds plausible. Perhaps it's because
none of the explanation are correct.

Just maybe they really did have geysers.

I would still challenge people to answer the questions;

Why are there no records or drawings of how the pyramids were built?

And...

Why do the Pyramid texts seem to suggest that there was water under pressure?

These are legitimate questions.

I'd have used this entire utterance but it's long. It all fits well.

Utterance 669.

1962a + 2 (N. 755). he who was born, a double, in the nest ---- Thot

This is the Great Egg which will become apparent. This is the stony material that accumulates around the natural CO2 vents in the land of Horus.

1962b. in the interior of the field of the tamarisk, at the source of the gods,

The source of the Gods is the water upwelling.

1963a. for N. is my brother, proceeding from the thigh,
1963b. who separated the two brothers, put apart the two fighters, who split your heads, O gods.

The cavern of the Earth through which the gods flow are seen as their bodies. The two brothers are likely the two eggs: Set and Osiris. Their heads eventually rise through upper eyes of Horus.

1964 A-C deleted. Very partial

1964d. as Isis said to Nun:

Really part of 165

1965a. "I have given birth to him for thee; I have deposited him for thee; 1 have certainly spit him out for thee."
1965b. He has no feet; he has no arms,
1965c. and how shall he be assembled?

Horus. Remember the dead king, Osiris and Horus are all nearly interchangeable.

1966a. Then let this copper be brought ------ the ḥnw-boat --- with it.
1966b (N. 756). [Come ye] with him, nourished, with him in your arms, say they, the gods.
1966c (N. 756). Behold, he is born.
1966d. Behold, he is assembled; behold he exists.

How is Horus assembled? ...with the []nw-boat which is the counterweight in which Seker (Chief of "lifts") rides.

1967. Wherewith shall we break that which appertains to his egg, say they, the gods.
1968a. Let then Seker of pdw come,
1968b. that he may mould (smelt) his bones, that he may construct his skeleton

Breaking the egg is preparing the site to construct a pyramid. Seker of "lifting" comes to construct the pyramid of Horus.

1968c. ----------
1968d. It is he who shall break the e[gg], and [loose] the copper,
1969a (N. 758). so that the two followers of the gods, with sharp teeth and long claws, may bring the god forth by his hands.

These are probably the men and all their contraptions. EDITED TO ADD:
These specific contraptions would include the sharp teeth on the drill used to turn the vent into a geyser.

1969b. Behold, N. exists; behold, N. is assembled;
1969c. behold N. has broken (his) egg.
1970a. Wherewith shall N. be caused to fly?

N Horus is assembled but what will cause N (the dead king) to fly?

1970b (N. 758-759). Then let there be brought to thee ------ ḥnw-boat, built by Mw-ḥn,
1970c. that thou mayest fly therewith, that thou mayest fly therewith,
1970d (N. 759). the south-wind for thy foster-mother, the north-wind for thy nurse.

The foster mother is Isis. The nurse is I[].t (gas) (CO2) which comes shortly after the prevailing winds shift to the north in July.

1971. N. flies; N. alights on the two wings (lit. feathers) of his father, Geb.

The pyramids are a part of Geb (the Earth).



It is truly a clockwork pyramid. It not only contains calenders and clocks but it marks an important moment in man's ascension and is ageless.

This is a very complicated utterance but this part of it seems to describe the operation of the "instrument of ascension". It's from #688;

2079a. They bind a ladder for N.;
2079b. they make firm a ladder for N.

The instrument is ready for the king's ascent.

2079c. They cause N. to ascend to Khepri,
2079d. he who exists on the eastern side of the sky.

Khepri is essentially Re as the rising sun on the eastern horizon.

2080a. Its rungs are hewn by Šśȝ;
2080b. the ropes which are on it are made solid
2080c. by means of sinews of Gȝśw.ti, the bull of heaven;
2080d. the uprights at its sides are fastened,

The ropes are made "solid" by adding weight (Seker) to the []nw-boat. Uprights are likely safety devices so people aren't ejected if the ride is rough.

2080e. like the skin of ’Imi-wt, son of Ḥsȝ.t;

A simile perhaps to instill confidence in riders. You can't fall out of your own skin or the skin in which you are enclosed.

2080f. the "supporter of the Great One" is set under it by Śpḥ-wr.t.

The Great One should be Osiris and the supporter would normally be Set. In this case it might be meant more literally and the supporter is one of the boats of ma'at. Osiris, as Seker is supported in the boat.

2081a. Cause ye the ka of N. to ascend to the god;
2081b. lead ye him to the two lions; cause him to ascend to Atum.
2082a. Atum has done that which he said he would do for N.,

N ascends.

2082b. (for) he binds the ladder for him, he makes the ladder firm for N.
2082c. (Thus) N. is removed from the horror of mankind;
2082d. the arms of N. are not a horror to the gods.

N is accepted by the Gods before and after his ascension.

Im pretty sure they believe Ra went on a boat and carried the sun to the other side and continued this journey every day.

Well, I find it interesting that the great pyramid is supposeddly the tomb of Khufu, however, there is.....no tomb. Nor is there any evidence that it was ever used as a tomb. Notice how, for example with King Tut's tomb there is all kinds of hieroglyphics depicting his life. No such luck at Giza. This alone suggests that the pyramid was used for some other reason.

A Tomb and pyramid are different things, a pyramid has a burial chamber in itself and a very small part of the pyramid was just that where a tomb is a burial chamber and is often carved into a mountain or in the ground. They started building tombs because pyramids were easily broken into. Thats why we are still finding tombs today with everything still inside as it was buried.

The mastaba pre-dates the giant pyramids and the giant pyramids pre-date the pyramids
with known burials. There is a partial giant pyramid befor the little ones were made.

There's no reason a pyramid should be easier to attack then anything else. Indeed, since
it can be built from any angle it should be much easier to design for security.

Obviously either the reason for the construction of pyramids changed or the means that they
were built changed. The fact one was left half way done might suggest that it was sudden
and not the type of change engendered by evolution of beliefs.

This would seem to imply that the means to build them changed very suddenly.

You're right. And there is no evidence of burials in any of the giant pyramids.

There's very little in the way of inscriptions and they might have been added
at a later date.

What do you think about this?

Its the second one down http://jordanmaxwell.com/articles/questions/questions14.html

I'm told that the helicopters and stuff are all fakes.


I know nothing about it though. It's after the time that interests me.

To answer this another way; Certainly this could all be a primitives peoples' way
of describing their Gods and the activities of these gods. But let me ask this: If
they did have geysers to build the pyramids would it not have necessitated the
lashing together of boats on either side of the pyramid? Might they not need mult-
tiple boats and counterweights to keep up with the huge flow of supplies and men
to the working surface? Isn't it possible they would use EXACTLY these words to
describe the process of building a pyramid?

Indeed, doesn't presupposing the existence of geysers solve all the mysteries
associated wirth the usage, cause, and means of the pyramids? When told that
it was proven that light really bends around gravitational objects as mandated by
his theory, Einstein essentially said that if it didn't then god had made the universe
wrong.

If there weren't geysers then the Egyptians left the wrong evidence.

But to argue that you would have to dismiss the ruins of the heavily inscribed mortuary temple that adjoined the east face of the pyramid, a temple specifically built to serve and maintain the soul of the dead king. You would also have to dismiss the numerous mastabas surrounding the Great Pyramid in which relations to the king were interred, including one son and his architect, Hemiunu. It was common throughout the Old Kingdom for family members and close advisors to be buried near their king. This was how they were assured their own eternal afterlife.

That the Great Pyramid was not inscribed on the inside is of little consequence. No pyramid contained hieroglyphic inscriptions till the end of Dynasty 5, several generations after Khufu. The Pyramid Texts consist of a corpus of spells that almost certainly predate even the earliest pyramid, that of Djoser at Saqqara. Why they were not etched into stone till late in the Old Kingdom is unknown, but it's certainly not evidence of anything other than some change in the religion in the cult of the king.

And the inscriptions found inside Tut's little tomb tell us very little about his life. One of Howard Carter's greatest hopes was that he would find a wealth of inscriptions to reveal the person behind the throne of Tutankhamun, but this was not to be. The texts and inscriptions were almost all strictly religious and mystical in nature, as was the norm for the royal tombs of the New Kingdom.

Pyramids of the Old Kingdom contained few special security measures. At most one finds the heavy portcullises that were meant to close off passages, but these were left open in numerous cases. In the Middle Kingdom several pyramids were built with a confusing warren of subterranean passages in the hopes of confusing tomb raiders, but these never worked--primarily because many of the raiders had been involved in the building of the pyramids.

The central authority of the government collapsed at the end of the Old Kingdom, resulting in a short interval we call the First Intermediate Period. This period lasted only about 140 years, but kingship had weakened significantly, few kings were on the throne for long, and Egypt had fallen into civil war. With a ruined economy the government could not afford legions of necropolis guards, and many tombs stood open. It was easy pickings for tomb robbers. It was during this period that the pyramids of the Old Kingdom were probably picked clean, as were a great many tombs of nobles and officials. When the state cannot afford to safeguard the burials of its rulers, no tomb is invulnerable, be it a mighty pyramid or a humble pit grave.

It's extremely rare to find an undisturbed tomb in Egypt. Tut's had been robbed at least twice, for instance. In 1939 a French archaeologist named Pierre Montet discovered an undisturbed royal tomb at Tanis, dating to the Third Intermediate Period (another time when the stability and power of Egypt had significantly diminished). This is the only undisturbed royal tomb I can think of. Few people even know of it because Hitler had invaded Poland and Montet's discovery was swallowed up by news of the war. The fact is, the wealthier and more powerful an Egyptian official was, the more likely his tomb was to be raided--and usually picked clean. Rarely has much been found in any Egyptian royal tomb from any point in its dynastic period.



If this is in reference to the graffiti found within the relieving chambers of the Great Pyramid, there has never been a logical reason to doubt their provenance. Fringe theorists like Hancock and Bauval have tried to question this but their argument falls flat. The relieving chambers had been sealed since the construction of the pyramid, and was accessed only in 1837 by Vyse and his team--and they had to use dynamite just to get themselves in there. Clearly the graffiti specifically mentioning the name of Khufu and some of his work crews, had been in there all along.

I find it quite remarkable that the Egyptians built huge structures
for whatever real purpose for centuries and then right in the mid-
dle of building another they stopped and started building smaller
ones.

This would seem to imply that either the reason for building them
or the means by which they were built suddenly changed.

The fact that the large pyramids have not been shown conclusively
to have contained any burials might be relevant. The fact that no
pre-6th dynasty royal mummies survive is particularly intruiging.


My knowledge of post-6th dynasty Egypt is extremely limited. This
sort of thing is always interesting to me, though. It seems as though
if I were in charge at some later date and tombs were being system-
atically plundered then it would make sense to remove anything rob-
bers might take and put the mummy (king) in a safer location. It's
difficult for me to believe large numbers of these were really looted.

Still there is some definitive evidence and great circumstantial evi-
dence that later pyramids were used as tombs. There seems even
circumstantial evidence that earlier pyramids were used as tombs is
not strong.



You already have me convinced of this. I was thinking of the "equation"
found at the entrance of the Great Pyramid. Of course there had to be
some sort of passage or Vyse couldn't have dynamited his way in. I'm
told there was an entrance of sorts in the top of the south end of the
grand gallery.

The Great Pyramid was known as Khufu's Horizon to the ancients so a
cartouche of Khufu shouldn't be too surprising, I suppose.

Thanks for the input.

cladking wrote:


I read your mention of the unfinished pyramid in one of your recent posts but am not sure to which one you're referring. There are a number of unfinished or at least incredibly denuded pyramids from between Dynasty 3 and Dynasty 6. The unfinished step pyramid of Sekhemkhet, from Dynasty 3, springs to mind immediately, for example. Had it been finished, both the pyramid and its complex would've exceeded Djoser's in size. There's also the massive unfinished mudbrick step pyramid at Abu Rawash (commonly known as Lepsius I), which is dated also to Dynasty 3. It would've been the largest pyramid to date, had it been finished; many believe it was commissioned by Huni, the last king in that dynasty, although there is no general consensus on this. The Dynasty 3 provenance is largely accepted, though. These are just two examples.

From the start to the finish of the dynastic period, many king's tombs were never finished. The king died and the next person to ascend to the throne either did not have the resources to finish the previous ruler's monument, or simply did not care to. We observe the beginnings of a general decline in the strength of the state economy by the start of Dynasty 5, and it was no longer possible to martial the resources to construct the massive stone-masonry pyramids from the preceding dynasty. Enormous slabs of limestone and granite were still often used within the chambers inside the mudbrick framework of these later pyramids, however. Also at this time, we see the associated temples growing in size and complexity as the pyramids themselves began to shrink, and this may also signal some alteration in the religious functions of the pyramids.



That is precisely what happened after the New Kingdom, when Egypt was again waning in power. There were divergent ruling dynasties in the north and south during the Third Intermediate Period. The priest-kings who ruled from Thebes in Dynasty 21 sent agents into the Valley of the Kings to remove what was left in the tombs and to hide the mummies of the royals, where they still existed. Many of the royal mummies from the New Kingdom were hidden in a sealed chamber in the tomb of Amunhotep II (KV35), where they were discovered in 1898. Many more royal mummies were secreted away in the tomb of the High Priest Pinedjem II (DB320), and the cache was found as early as 1860 by the infamous Rassul brothers, who were systematically looting the tomb until they were caught. DB320 in particular contained a number of treasures. However, the relocation of these royal mummies and some of the treasures by the Theban priest-kings, was not entirely an act of pious kindness. The priest-kings used this as a pretext to loot the tombs themselves, to finance their own rule and to maintain their armies.

Have you ever read about the tomb-robbers papyri? This is really fascinating stuff to read about. Archaeologists excavating at Medinet Habu in the late nineteenth century unearthed a large cache of papyri fragments which turned out to be the official court records of the interrogations and trials of Theban tomb robbers during the reigns of Ramesses IX and Ramesses XI, late in the New Kingdom. Among other things, these papyri show that some of the tombs being plundered belonged to rulers from earlier in dynastic history. One of these was the tomb of King Sobekemsaf I, from Dynasty 17. Many tombs of nobleman were also raided.



Intact mummies have never been found in these tombs, no. However, body parts have, such as under the Step Pyramid. It's been awhile since I read the specifics but I believe numerous body parts were also found in one or more of the pyramids in Dashur dating to Dynasty 4. Whether these mummy-chunks can be ascribed to specific individuals can be debated, but many archaeologists feel comfortable accepting that they are the remains of the original occupants. Mummies from the Old Kingdom are scarce to begin with because preservation skills were still lacking. Mummies did not survive well until the Middle Kingdom, and they're not exactly abundant from then, either.

Very interesting. No, I've missed the tomb-robbers papyri but its existence
rings a bell.

My understanding is that they have a foot of one mummy from the third dy-
nasty but are not sure if it's a man or woman. It would seem that if it can
be identified no better than this then it might not even be so old.

I've seen no evidence on the web but hearsay is that the Egyptians were
known to stuff mummies anywhere they might fit.

I'm a little uncomfortable with your explanation of why the pyramids got
smaller. Certainly building these would be taxing on the economy but as
time went by the economy should have grown and technology improved. It
would seem that at some point they should have begun getting larger again
unless there were a fundamental change in the religion, technology, or the
way in which they were built.

I've had this in my favorites file forever but just recently noticed the last
great pyramid;

http://www.world-destiny.org/or/marklehner.htm

http://www.world-destiny.org/or/marklehner.htm


Just another quick observation here;

The only pyramid that really stands out among the early ones is
the pyramid at Abu Roash. It might be noted that this small pyr-
amid is the only one that's not in the land of Horus. This is in the
Nile delta which could not have had geysers in all probability.

This one shows that Osiris is a geyser and it touches on the
assembly of Osiris and the pyramid.

1964d. as Isis said to Nun:
1965a. "I have given birth to him for thee; I have deposited him for thee; I have certainly spit him out for thee."
1965b. He has no feet; he has no arms,
1965c. and how shall he be assembled?

1966a. Then let this copper be brought ------ the []nw-boat --- with it.
1966b (N. 756). [Come ye] with him, nourished, with him in your arms, say they, the gods.
1966c (N. 756). Behold, he is born.
1966d. Behold, he is assembled; behold he exists.

1967. Wherewith shall we break that which appertains to his egg, say they, the gods.
1968a. Let then Seker of pdw come,
1968b. that he may mould (smelt) his bones, that he may construct his skeleton
1968c. ----------

The egg is the ben ben stone which has to be "broken" to drill
the geyser. Osiris becomes Seker of pdws (lifts, probably) in
his name of "come to me" when he sits in the []nw-boat.

1968d. It is he who shall break the e[gg], and [loose] the copper,
1969a (N. 758). so that the two followers of the gods, with sharp teeth and long claws, may bring the god forth by his hands.
1969b. Behold, N. exists; behold, N. is assembled;
1969c. behold N. has broken (his) egg.

The sharp teeth are the drills used to drill the geyser.

1970a. Wherewith shall N. be caused to fly?
1970b (N. 758-759). Then let there be brought to thee ------ ḥnw-boat, built by Mw-ḥn,
1970c. that thou mayest fly therewith, that thou mayest fly therewith,



This is all very very straight forward.

This is a very detailed guide for building a great pyramid. Like
Atum a pyramid creates itself. It has the same source as Atum.

Men and Gods built the great Pyramid and you can still see it.

Cladking, what is your source for your citing of the Pyramid Texts? I believe you told me you use some internet source, but the numbers you're citing don't match anything in James Allen's book and it contains cross-references for all of the major studies (no two scholars have numbered the texts in quite the same way, so it can get confusing).

http://www.wyldwytch.com/weavings/reading_...ypt/pyramid.htm

I really should post this more often. The above is 669.

This is the 1952 Mercer translation and is the only one that I trust. I do use the others for cross referencing and checking but always stick with this one. I have no doubt that the later scholars knew a lot more than Mercer but it appears to many errors crept into the translations.

I really think people should read it for themselves and draw their own conclusions. Of course many people don't have the time and you can't gain much by a single reading.

http://www.wyldwytch.com/weavings/reading_...ypt/pyramid.htm


By the way, this is a wonderful site and they have a wide range
of all the ancient texts available. They have 8 or 10 texts just
for Egypt alone so be sure to check out the home page as well.

They've been exceedingly helpful to me. The Egypt material is
easier to read with IE-6 if you have a choice and are interested
in trying your own translations.

There's a great trick for searching the PT that I just discovered.
Just copy and paste their header "Sacred Texts Egypt Index
Previous Next" and put it in quotes with the word you're searching.
You'll need to click on "repeat search with omitted results".

I'd be way ahead of where I am if I had discovered this a couple
years ago. It still won't give you all the hits for some reason but
you get most of them.

It should be useful for reading/referencing as it is sacred-texts.com under a different URL. Here's the one I use. Sacred-Texts.com

cormac

Thanks, cladking. I've bookmarked that site. LOL Now I know why I was so confused. I was sitting here trying to coordinate your citations with my book, but I'm not very familiar with Mercer's translations. I probably should've recognized the particular line-by-line numbering scheme which was devised by Kurt Sethe in his 1908 publication; Mercer based his English translation on Sethe's edition. Mercer published his translations in 1952. Faulkner's translations (1969) are still held as one of the best, but even in the 40 years since his publication we've learned a lot more about the language and the background of the Pyramid Texts. I would love to have a copy of Faulkner's book but it's painfully expensive. A very decent alternative is James Allen's 2005 book, which is the most up to date and one of the only translations that publishes the Pyramid Texts in the correct order. Allen is also one of the world's foremost experts on the ancient Egyptian language. I've never delved into Sethe's or Mercer's because the ordering is pretty scattered and the translations are a bit old, but as I understand it the work is pretty solid.

I realize you look at the Pyramid Texts very differently from the way I approach them, but now I know how to coordinate your citations with my own book.

It's pretty obvious that Mercer is out of order and I've been thinking
a little about what the proper order should be. It's good to know that
this has been worked on.

Do you know what means were employed to arrange them? Was it just
putting them in a logical order or did they have something original?

I should think that anything learned about the language is much more
likely to be applicable to later material than earlier. This doesn't nec-
essarily mean that the application to older text is wrong but the odds
go up probably.

If there were geysers then the later translation have a lot of errors.
They may have more scholarship in either case, however.

Part of the difference may well be interpretation as well and mine is pos-
sibly unique. I consider these to be mostly 19th century BC renditions
of far older writing. I don't believe they were copied perfectly but rather
adapted to their time and their understanding. The original intent is large-
ly lost through rewriting and then more through translation. This was holy
scripture though so there was some attempt to preserve the originality
even where the original intent had long since been forgotten.

I don't know how other readers interpret these.

Sorry about not responding to this sooner but it's one of the things
that I'm currently working on and am hesitant to say much until there's
a little more certainty. This doesn't appear to be likely in the near fu-
ture so will comment anyway.

I'm sure you're right. I wouldn't be surprised if part of this journey was
reflected in the the operations of the great pyramids. Many of these ap-
pear to have had a "boat of the morning" and "boat of the evening" and
they considered that Re was helped along in his ride by these. This may
well have been another of the reasons that these were instruments of as-
cension; they helped the sun rise and then set.

I'm imagining that they always had a single pyramid under construction
in case the king died and to keep the sun moving and the crops growing.

When they got to the top it was a simple matter of assembling the bones
of another God or breaking another egg to begin another bridge, ladder,
or stairs so they could continue on.

When the geysers failed they stopped building a great pyramid right in the
middle and use subsequent small pyramids as tombs.

#689

...2090a. (Thou), who has found that eye of Horus,

The dead king has found the opening of the geyser. i.e.- there's an eruption.

2090b. to which its head is given, for which a front is made, like the forehead of Rē‘, furious like a crocodile,

The head is at the top during an eruption. A front being made is the pyramid. Osiris stands with his face behind him on the north side of the pyramid. The pyramid is before him at his front.

2090c. thou hast followed the eye of Horus to heaven, to the śḥd.w-stars of the sky,

This eye in heaven would be the upper eye which is used to construct the pyramid.

2090d. go thou, as one who shall row Horus, with his eye.

Rowing pulls a boat through the water like the water from the eye which is channeled into the []nw-boat pulls the ascender to the pyramid top.

2091a. O Shu, thou who bearest up Nut,

Shu is a very powerful God who hold the sky (Nut) aloft. Elsewhere Shu is said to have stood when the sky was ripped from the earth.

2091b. thou hast borne up the eye of Horus to heaven, to the śḥd.w-stars of the sky,

Again the dead king. As Osiris the dead king has created the lift necessary to build the upper eye. He has bourne it up to heaven.

2091c. because Horus sits upon his firm (or, copper; or, brilliant) throne.

In this case the throne is probably firm and probably Osiris'. (Khufu's pyramid) Horus is the spirit of the Land of Horus and Horus is Chief of the D[].t.

2091d. Go thou, as one who shall row Horus, with his eye.

Stand in the upper eye and then provide the lift.


This is a pretty neat utterance.

1 - A pyramid is a large or huge structure that can be seen from great distances, there were hundreds or even thousands that have been built in Egypt already. Graverobbers, with the knowledge that there is a large amount of wealth in these easy-to-find pyramids would not hesitate to break into one, a tomb is a lot harder to find and to get into.
2 - There were so many mud brick pyramids that wasted away long before limestone pyramids were built, probably pre-dating that partial one you mentioned.

I have a couple problems with this. Primarily is that it really takes only a single
person to know where something is to be pretty sure it's robbed. If the loot was
safer in hidded tombs than in giant pyramids then why build giant pyramids. If
their size was the problem then wouldn't reducing them to near nothing have made
more sense than just tking the top couple hundred feet off of them. It's not like
you can hide a 200' tall pyramid.

Then there's the simple problem that there is little evidence of any loot or burials
having been stashed in the early pyramids.

There is the possibility that these were indeed tombs AND they were built with wa-
ter. The Pyramid Texts do seem to imply that, at most, the inside of the pyramid
played a secondary role in its function. If the king really rose from the pyramid
then how do the priests explain the mummy and grave goods?



I have it on good authority that the partial pyramid might not be relevant to my
case so have stopped using it as substantiation.

My point is that there should be some change in the religion or culture that one can
point to as the reason pyramids got smaller. If there isn't such a change then it's
wrong to simply postulate one or suppose one. There are many reasons that these
could have gotten smaller and some are not cultural.

Extremely little is known from this era. Even were there a massive upheaval in
people's beliefs or culture it might not be known. My contention is not that it must
have been infrastructure, merely that it was most probably not economic and is
unknown.

It seems clear the Egyptians were not interested in concealing the tombs of their kings until much later. In fact, I cannot think of any tomb from the Early Dynastic Period through the end of the Old Kingdom that would appear to have been hidden in any manner. "Conspicuous" was the rule at the time. Many tombs from these periods, especially the oldest of them, have little to nothing left of their superstructures, but it's clear there was always some kind of conspicuous marker so that the cult of the deceased could be maintained.

It's with the collapse of the Old Kingdom that we see drastic changes. The abrupt breakdown of central authority plunged the country into chaos and led to divergent dynasties ruling from different locations. There were many kings who ruled in different areas in this brief span of about 140 years; we know very little about most of them and even less about where many of them were buried. In this civil war there was some nasty business goin' on. For example, there's a Dynasty 10 text called "Instructions for King Merykare" (one of the minor kings who ruled at this time) that speaks of troops from the rival dynasty ruling from Hierakleopolis (modern Ihnasiya al-Madina) plundering the necropolis of Abydos while they were fighting the troops of the dynasty ruling from Thebes. Abydos was a much older necropolis than Giza, and arguably a more notable sacred site to the Egyptians, so it's not a stretch to imagine people of this time plundering an unguarded Giza. Men were needed for fighting, not for guarding dead people.

It's not till Dynasty 12, in the Middle Kingdom, that a king was wise enough to try something different, given the disasters of the First Intermediate Period. Senusret III (1881-1840 BCE) built a pyramid complex at Dashur (the same site from which we got that boat at the Field Museum) but it's more than possible he wasn't buried there. In Abydos he built the first subterranean, hidden royal tomb. I attended a lecture given by Joseph Wegner, the Egyptologist now excavating this site. Senusret III's subterranean tomb there is huge. Although the tomb itself was well concealed, not far away was a small town and temple complex built for the maintenance of the cult of the king, so it's not surprising that word got out. This subterranean tomb was brutally plundered.



You and I have argued this before and plentiful evidence is known for the waning of central authority late in the Old Kingdom, but I don't want to rehash an old debate. The point is, it is well known, but there are multiple explanations for what happened. There was no single cause.

I did want to point to Orcseeker's statement: "There were so many mud brick pyramids that wasted away long before limestone pyramids were built..." We have no evidence at all of pyramids predating Djoser's at the start of Dynasty 3, and his was the first made of limestone. Pyramids did not exist prior to that. I believe there was one or two pyramids from later in Dynasty 3 that began with a core of mud brick, but stone masonry was the norm till the end of Dynasty 4. More is the norm of unfinished projects like Sekhemkhet's, but from what's left we can be sure stone was planned as the medium. Mudbrick was one of the principal building mediums for pyramids only later in the Old Kingdom and through the Middle Kingdom.

Also, there were never thousands of pyramids, or even hundreds. Counting only royal pyramids in Egypt, including those for the king, his queens, and his subsidiary pyramid, they number around 100 between Dynasty 3 and Dynasty 18. However, this does not include the little stone pyramids noblemen sometimes placed atop their tombs early in the New Kingdom (at Saqqara, for example). And of course it doesn't include the royal pyramids of Nubia later in history. I'm sticking to only the royal pyramids of Egypt.

Thats the reason they started building tombs

Well, during the time before they were getting robbed so frequently, the idea of a giant pyramid for a grave would display the power of the emperor.

Utterance 505.

...1090a. Wp-wȝ-wt opens the way for me;
1090b. Shu lifts me up;
1090c. the Souls of Heliopolis construct a stairway for me,
1090d. to unite with the Above (i.e. to reach the top);
1090e. Nut gives her arm to me as she did for Osiris
1090f. the day that he landed there.
1091a. O thou whose face is behind thee, ferry me over to the Marsh of Reeds.

Men construct a stairway for me to unite with the above.

The sky helps me up as she helped Osiris when he reached
the sky. Osiris will ferry me over to the marsh of reeds
where I'll be purified.

People are not often mentioned in the Pyramid Texts. Of-
ten they are mentioned in association with building ladders
or stairways.

It's not mentioned in the utterance but this appears to be,
obviously, written from the perspective of the dead king.

And the very next utterance #506;

...1100b. I am the great spoken word;
1100c. I am a delivered one; I am one worthy of deliverance;
1100d. I am delivered from all evil things.
1101a. Further, to say: Men and gods, your arms under me,
1101b. while you raise me and lift me up to heaven,
1101c. as the arms of Shu (were) under the sky as he lifted her up--
1101d. to heaven, to heaven, to the great seat, among the gods!

Men and Gods lift him up. Seker's weight provides the Pdws while
the ferryman directs the water into the boat. This is compared to
Shu's standing as the sky was ripped from the earth and he is left
to hold her aloft.

Got a couple more lines. These are really simple and I should have gotten them long ago. It's probably that they are puns or jokes which made me miss them.

The "arms of Nut" (sky Goddess) are caves and passages; the same with her horns. It really makes sense.

The two line are;

utt 539... ...1321a. Nut (is) she who cannot be fertilized without putting (down) her arms,

i.e.- the followers of the Gods with long claws and sharp teeth must drill a hole in which the God can stand and fertilize the sky; there must be an extension of the sky into the earth.

And utt #302 which says that Nut the Great uncovered her arm for the dead king (that he might ascend).

Utterance 467.

887a. Behold N., Rē‘, N. is thy son;
887b. N. is (spiritually) mighty, N. is honoured, N. is, (physically) mighty;
887c. the arms of N. are carrying, the stride of N. is long.

The arms of the dead king are for carrying and his stride is long!

It is Osiris N (the dead king) who lifts the stones to build the pyr-
amids.

888a. N. shines in the East like Rē‘;
888b. he goes in the West like Khepri.
888c. N. lives on that which Horus, lord of heaven, lives, by the command of Horus, lord of heaven.

Osiris stands on the north side of the great pyramids but he is
channeled through the winding waterways to the west where as
Seker and lifts the boat of the morning.

888d. N. purifies Rē‘;
889a. N. mounts upon his throne;
889b. N. takes his helm (oar).

He is purified. He mounts his throne (the pyramid) and lifts the
boat with his "oar".

889c. N. sails (rows) Rē‘, as him who strides over the sky,

The []nw-boat was reportedly rowed at up to 300' at a time.

utt #409... ...718c. N. lives on sweet-wood (i.e. sweets), and from fumigations which are in the earth...

Sugar has the same effect on carbonated water as salt.

There are a few places that the yeast gas efflux from the gods is called "fumigation".

Are there any alternative explanations for this?

I suppose she might be unapproachable while holding a sword over
her head but then why would the sky hold a sword. Why is she never
said in the Pyramid Texts to hold a sword? She is the Great Sieve
and the Great protectress as well as the wife of the Earth and mother
of Osiris but nowhere is sho said to wield a weapon.

She holds her arms "up" while "working" but she never stops working.
She has the Gods to hold her up if she puts her arms down but why
would this be necessary for fertilization?

As so many of these lines, alternative explanations are simply lacking.
There seems no justification for ascribing this to religious doggeral
since there's no reason that religious writing needs to be gibberish.
How many Bible scholars would there be if the words in the Bible were
gibberish?

I'm not sure why you'd expect Nut to be brandishing any kind of weapon. She's a sky and cosmic goddess without a martial role in the mythology. Mercer's translation is a bit overly chaste for this particular passage, one might say, and Allen's translation (his Spell 486) is more in keeping, as seen in the texts from the pyramid of Pepi I:

Nut cannot copulate nor can she give her arms, as he emerges and this Pepi ascends to the sky.

Geb cannot leap his barrier, as he emerges and Pepi ascends to the sky.

This spell appears on the south wall of the antechamber in the pyramid and is the start of the Spells for Opening the Door of the Sky. The "he" in "he emerges" is Hor-pa-khared, Horus-the-Child, whom the king becomes, newborn like a child, to ascend to the sky.

As you already know, Nut is the sky goddess and Geb the earth god. They are brother and sister, as well as consorts. Let's just say they had an unhealthy affinity for each other. They spent much time copulating, and to do this she had to come down from the heavens. Whenever this happened, there was darkness (nighttime, in other words). The king reborn could not ascend to the sky if it were dark, so Nut must not be allowed to "give her arms" to Geb (i.e., embrace); an alternative view is that when she "puts down" her arms, Nut is lowering herself onto Geb. Traditionally Nut and Geb were kept apart by Shu, their father, on the orders of Re. You can see in the following lines on Mercer's page how other gods are similarly called to assist in the king's ascension to heaven. Nothing must be allowed to detain him.

Nut has numerous roles in the Pyramid Texts. She is also a great protector. In Spell 548, which Mercer categorizes as one of the "Texts of Miscellaneous Contents" but which actually belongs to the same set as above (Opening the Sky's Door), we see how Nut also embraces the king and helps him to rest firmly in the heavens: 1345a...she does not cast him down to the earth. / 1345b. She makes this N. remain as chief of the two ’itr.t-palaces. (Mercer's "’itr.t-palaces" is correctly translated as "Dual Shrines.")