I don't usually post in 'skeptism' and most know that I don't care for debates, being opening to all possibilities and respectful to everyone and their understandings'....
But, this question and what I'm going to put forward here may offend some, so let me ask your forgiveness in advance'

Most people can't tell if I place faith in the bible and the God that inspired it, much less can they tell if I have faith in anything...

I don't believe the importance of learning new and more things to be a top priority for me, as much as I believe my number one priority is to evaluate what I have learned and then weed out the non-sense, which makes un-learning number 1...I make myself dumb in order to learn! so here is where you should find patience with me, I told you before hand I make myself dumb! LOL!

With that said'

What if everything you ever learned to believe about the bible and God was wrong? What if the people that lived and wrote the words did not have a clear picture of its meaning? What if all the past generations taught out of blind ignorance' to what the actually meaning is...
I am not saying consider that there is no God, consider that there is a God and that the bible is his inspired message to mankind, but that message has been misunderstood? How much conditioning and trained are your thoughts in this...? What if it is true where it says in Rev. 'the whole world has beed decieved' ?
What if the deception came about from innocent' ignorance of just not understanding?

I grew up being drowned and drenched in religion, my parents weren't very religious, but this world is very religious, especially America. Even if your parents don't teach you, everyone else will...it's one of those un-avoidable things like curse words and where babies come from! Everyone is infected with an opinion' rather they pay attention to it or not.

I was conditioned to believe in an all good' creator...He commands not to kill, steal, envy and so forth...we all know those 10 commandments, so I won't bore you with trying to impress you with my memorization skills of listing scripture and numbers.

The first weed to pull for me... (Exod) If God commands not to kill, then why write the laws down, then go to lengths to ensure that his chosen people know these laws...then surpise! have someone go in and tell them to 'go kill your brothers? Being a parent, that's equal to, do as I say', not as I do'!
Doesn't work for me or my kids. Consider, how can God not know that death' is something we find extremly important to AVOID! It's the ultimate, I don't want to happen to me! How can God be so frivolous' with death?
Well, if there is any truth to this story, God could be frivolous' because death is part of what he created and besides he suppose to be able to give life too.
Now, putting aside my own fears...what is this contradiction about God' telling me?
Maybe that God spent time and effort to make sure the people understood...Don't KILL! then to see if they got it...he let someone tell them, and even allowed that someone to say He' (God) said for you to go kill your brother! I have to stop and wonder, why didn't someone say, 'hey...duh...wait a minute, God said not to kill, even wrote it down (and I signed a book swearing not to..in Exdo.) Why didn't they call God' on that one? That's not fair because my kids call me' on anything and everything! I can't pull nothing on them! LOL!

Okay, there's a lesson not learned...we now have sin' or more sin'...but consider, 'do as I say, not as I do', is it sin when God kills and allows killing? If He abides by His own laws...Yes
God gives instructions of how to repent of sins'...sacrifice animals
How does God' repent and what does he sacrifice for his sins'? and who does he sacrifice to? Who's forgiveness does he want?

Gives a whole new meaning to he sacrificed his only son' and who did he give that offering to...
How many of God's own laws does he, himself break? He is a jealous God...envy?
Jesus was bashed for holding himself equal to God...

For everything that God can point his finger at me and say, "you did this or that"...I can point my finger back and say "so did YOU!" DUH! sound like my kids! LMAO
But, guess what...I can also say, Jesus died for all my sins...now God can say the same too...
Jesus?...caught in the middle of this finger pointing war? He calls a truce' ...reconcile'

Do we really have a clear understanding of our creator? could it be that, 'the beginning of wisdom is to recognize that 'we have a fear of God' and overcome that?
We have a fear of equating ourselves to God and him to us...but yet he is called Father and we're made in his image...do I shame my creator by saying I'm not like him and he is not like me?

I know some will say that this is from the DEVIL! Baal! But, before you go too far...reconsider your conditioning, and make sure you know who and what you are labeling as evil...the mysteries run deep and remember there are two images of GOD...one may be hidden from your sight
How much can you overcome? How much can you un-learn?

But by all means share your thoughts...we are all gods in my book' and gods are worthy of being heard!
Also thanks for allowing me to be heard!
'Many blessings

While some are drenched in religion they might find themselves in a dead faith devoid of spirituality. Words on a page if that is all they are to them should not be used as religion. I find a living faith within the Bible and through the Spirit and prayer the Word becomes living words etched on my heart. No one who has not experienced this will have a clue what I mean.

I grew up with it, walked away from it for years, and returned only to be able to compare three three different ways: not have it, have it but not truly awaken my spirit through the Spirit, have it while awakening my spirit through the Spirit.

Some people find perfect happiness in life without it. I am not one but when I turn to It through the Spirit I find relief from all my faults.

I do not encourage anyone to take someone else's word, dogma, standards, or anything else that they claim the Bible is. I would never take anyone's word or system other than reading for myself and asking for understanding through the Spirit. Truly though it is not for everyone. Some people should just leave it alone IMHO because really God does not need us but I find that I need Him.

My advice to you Ciss is if it seems that terrible to you and you find evil in it reject it. The Bible and the God of the Israelites described within is not for you.

Clovis,
It's always a pleasure to hear from you and it gives me such hopes for my children and grandchildren to see so many people that aren't stuck in a dead faith'
Like you, I don't want anyone to take someone else's opinions' as dogma
Always consider what it is being learned...and even more pay attention to the knowledge that sneaks into the mind...we are creatures that do nothing but obsorb info, to be in human form means to be constantly sensing' what is outside of us...our consciousness wears out quicker than our senses'
I love your thoughts and in put...thanks
'Many blessings

Well it is all about our specific needs and what works. If we are perfect I guess we need nothing. If we find strength in ourself and the ability to be content then there is that. If we need therapy then do it. If one religion, book, or system does not work there is always another. The worse thing though would be not to get help if we need it or to get help if we do not need it. There is always helping others too. Other than that another bad thing is just switching systems constantly without finding one that works.

This is the same way it works on a macro level for cultures. Religions develop to suit the needs of a culture at any given time. Once it becomes inadequate a new system then supersedes it. Some have faith we will not need religion in the world and science will take care of all our needs. That is basically the same in the micro level when a person who finds perfect contentment within. But I know I could not exist like that.

Ciss i would not put a awhole lot of stock into the NT and in reading the OT i'd take college courses in judiasm and anything else that could aid in understanding the bible.... to attempt to sit down and figure out the bible is not possible IMO without a rich understanding of history and literature on many levels.....

the beleivers version is just that subject to interpretation and filtered through ones own experinces..

IMO I feel the majority of religious folks are illiterate in western religion even those that profess to advocate it......I include myself in this because (or did) but over the last few years i have devoted myself to religious studies the historical/ academic persepctive taking many college courses, and continue........ I now realize how much as a culture we just don't know (how much religion permeates and influences culture even if you are a NB).... As a culture we are conditioned to except any ole thing on authority , no questions asked (its actaully built into the system)

yet because of technology and accessability and just social need( religion is a social phenomona) many have found alternative paths and therefore have no need for religion, personally i think there are more effective ways to guide our kids and i have to great success.........So in a nut shell . this sort of frame is disappearing just in the last 10 years the change to religious persepctive is astounding, i won't be surprised to see it distant memory or a dusty book on a shelf..... before my life is over.....

.. In spite of its major resistance to change ...many aspects are no longer taken seriously most notably the jesus lore, and California just made Gay marriage legal...yahoo!!!!...

Supera Sheri,
Thanks for your reply, as I said, I don't put stock in anything I know! There's one thing I do know about myself and that is the more I know is the less I know'
But I can say that anyone can make the stories in the bible fit many different ways and give many meanings to it, rather these stories are myth or not'

"As a culture we are conditioned to except any ole thing on authority , no questions asked (its actaully built into the system)"

I agree 100 % with that statement!
But what if the system switches currents and says now believe it never happened!
Do I disreguard a story or teaching just as quick as I accept one, on the basis that some or majority will say it never happened? I personally may or may not believe in the actual characters having ever exsisted...but do I throw away any meaning I might find from them? I leave open all possibilities...

Thanks so much for sharing

I always loved this saying. It is so true.

LOL! there goes my argument on being equal to an All knowing God!

Maybe the sum of 'All knowing' is nothing more than a process of continuely removing and replacing...jeez, how would I know? LOL!

I think that I'm trying to see if I can make myself skeptical on my skeptical beliefs'...sounds like a war between the left side of my brain and the right side!

that is a great question Ciss, can there be value in all paths , I think there is, yet it has not been my my expereince that academia or historyy tells one what to think it just gives the data and hopes it will inspire one to think for themselves it has no vested interest in what one does wth their thinking apparatus.... ...that is what i prefer and this is how I guide my kids .... we have been mislead as as culture we are taught choosing the right beleif is what is imperative when in fact there is no choice if there are conditons of any kind...... How can we ever come to conclusions with out committing to the rigour of critcal analysis I think its been a great disserivce to not encourege our culture to think for themsleves.. ... to be clear.(.thinking for oneself and knowing how tio think is not to be confused with only asking the questions that have the 'right' answers) ......


very good thread you have here....

I agree. The only thing I am a skeptic of is reality. That is what people say is possible and impossible. I have never cared much for limits but we still place them on ourselves either way. Look at my quotes though below and to the left ^__^

<----

Nicely stated, Ciss.



I question the motives behind how the canon was comprised and accepted as "God's" inspired word. It was most difficult for me in the beginning to study the Bible objectively, because I was so indoctrinated, but like you mentioned...making yourself dumb (deprogram) is neccessary. One can study the Bible their whole life, yet never take the time to study its roots.







Hats off to California. Good for them.

in my opinion no one religion or person has understood God . I think God is much more a personal entity . I have no doubt that no matter what religion/faith you were raised with or are in , the truth you think you see and understand is tantamount to viewing a Surat painting at a distance of one inch and focusing on a purple dot and thinking your viewing and understanding the whole. Impossible.

I wonder what belief we will hold say in 100,000 years.

a good example

Georges Seurat , The Parade, 1899
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The Parade detail

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Hi, Inner space
It's wonderful to hear from you!
This is why I love this forum, so many wonderful people and I learn so much from you guys too.
As far as the roots and orgins of the books in the bible, I have to say there are some people that won't let go of their fear' of a wrathful God to look behind the what, when, where, how and why's of the book. Most people never take the time to check it out and when you try to mention, (call 911 before hand, if you try to show them!) that there was major' political agenda of the times' tied into the stories we have, the only thing they can assoiate that with is what they have learned as Satan's attempts to snatch you and decieve you...I hear this a lot, "SEE! SEE! I knew it was true, there is a devil...etc"
When you add in the anicient beliefs and the gods from those times, which seem to mirrior what we have today adding a little here and substracting a little there...personally I think we have all pissed off the Female' gods from long ago, and the Mother of all has wicked plans for our future, even if she allows us to have a future, that is! LMAO! Are all of you scared yet !!!!!
I AM' LOL!

Thanks again!

That is a great point...love the pics.! It's easy to forget the method used for painting the pic...excellent example!
But...At least give me credit for covering my azz against the world's wrathful' God in the OP...lol!
Thanks, Lt. Ripley

thankyou lil sis, I am so proud of California for bieng the first to legalize gay manriage... .I was so sad about 3 years or so ago when Canada made this move and the US did not... .

well till now.....I hope all the other states follow suit, I am sure many will....