Oh you feeble little mortal. You are but a speck of sand and attempt to explain or understand not only the beach you are apart of but also the whole universe and beyond.

You speak in the most simplest possible terms! You do not understand what God is, what Satan is, what you are, or even where we are, or where we are going! It's so much more then just good and evil. God and Satan. Life and death. But I will attempt to reply in your simplest terms you chose to use.

You will never, ever, come close to understand god, only God's effects! In God's world there are many elements, all created by God, or as earlier thinkers referred to as the First Principal! We are part of a unfolding story, a plan. Each of us have small parts in this play. Each of us contribute to the main plot. Satan represents our inner selfish side. Need not be evil, but can be, and often is. We need to have evil present for a time to be able to appreciate all that is good. If every thing was good from the beginning and every thing had one flavor, one temperture, one ending. What would be gained? Our life is filled with many flavors! Some sweet, some sour, some bitter! Satan is a work of God. For the sake of our evolving to some thing better. God seen it good for us to start of small, and grow. As we grew we learned more. Along the way Satan tempts us to find better ways.

Is God responsible for the good and evil? Yes and no. I remind you that right now we can not see the whole picture or understand the play or plot. You are attempting to greatly over simplify everything. I will take life with all it's ups and downs, good and evil, and thank God with all my soul! Here is the beauty I find in all this. That we can question God and not anger God! How could God get angry at us being just feeble little mortals, but a speck of sand? Yet for some strange reason he spends his time with us. I can't wait to see what God has in store for me in my next chapter!

Okay first off let me explain. I'm not here to attack anyone but more or less throw out ideas and gather information.

But if what you say is true does that mean that god is also responsible for all of our suffering?

Yup

So how can one be so caring, yet he is also the one who is causing all the problems?

Or is there something I'm missing?

I wouldn't really say He's causing all the problems, He's just not doing anything to prevent it. He knows about it, because He knows everything, but perhaps He gave up trying to interfere because humanity is just self-destructive, or something. He gave us free will, so if He would intervene, that would directly interfere with our free will. However, He already knows the path we're going to take anyway, supposedly, so watching us all take the path we were destined to make anyway seems kind of pointless to me. :\ It just seems like people are suffering needlessly, if eventually God has already decided our fates.

Free will to me seems kind of pointless if all we do is question why he's doing what he has done.

To an extent, I think that's the whole point. XP Sometimes it just seems as if God is playing with us, and testing our faith. ...However, I would rather turn from God and treat people right and with kindness, then believe in a God who purely wants us to worship Him and essentially doesn't care how much you've sinned in life, as long as you believe in Him and repent, you're okay. I don't feel as if an all-powerful, loving God would need such worship in the first place. It just seems a little... ...I don't want to say 'egotistical', but it just seems like a very human-like pride to want this kind of thing.

And I don't really think we have free will if God has a plan or if everything happens for a reason. ;P If it's God's plan for us to follow this one path, then how is that our free will? It seems more like God enforcing His plan. If I decide that I don't want to live by God's standards anymore, and decide to commit suicide, well, we can always assume that that was God's plan as well. So either way, it was in God's plan. XP ...And I don't condone suicide , just using that as an example. Amidst all the uncertainty and 'evil' in the world, there are an abundance of people who truly do care and a lot of good still in this world.

But yes, I agree with you. ;P Not much point in us being here if God already knows what's in our hearts, and whether we believe in Him or not. ...But that's just an assumption, and may not really be what the deal is. XP

Exactly how I feel. I kinda agree with you on some of what you said. Surely someone like him/she/it if he has and specific gender at all, wouldn't care about worship or who follows him. Kind of defeats the purpose of having free will. Sometimes I think he's simply gone mad. lmao

How dare a human being question the motives and works of his (supposed) creator ?

It rather seems instead, that it is the men/women that DO NOT attempt to understand or question god's motives that have the "feeble little mortal" minds.

This is an exerpt from my web-site "The Temple of Enki". It is very relevant to this topic.

So what are we to conclude? There is only one of two possibilities. The first possibility is the real one: that the Bible was written not by an all loving god, because an all loving god would be incapable of creating anything capable of this transformation, and the Bible is an edited, altered and highly flawed re-write of the true Sumerian text. The second possibility is that this god actually saw the monster inside of himself and did the exact thing that the alien race did in the Star Trek episode: created a life form and dumped this horrible tendency into his own creation to save himself. In doing this, he would have created a life form that was infected with his own madness and has used him for a “scapegoat” for everything that has ever gone wrong in the history of creation! To accept this, would mean that the god described in the Bible has actually waged war on the part of himself that he was unwilling to accept as a part of himself, and so decided to take it out of himself in order to point his finger and say, in effect “it isn’t me doing all this, it’s HIM”. What kind of monster is capable of something like this? There is no way around one of these two possibilities being the only solution. Now we are left with a decision, either god is a monster who has waged war against his own nature by removing from himself in order to make himself look innocent, and we accept this, or we accept the first and true scenario that no matter how long it has gone on, the deception is revealed and TRUE understanding can begin, or more accurately, continue after six thousand years of deception and hundreds of millions vilified and killed in the most ingenious of ways.

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There is a third possibility . Man created god

There is always that possibility, That maybe we created him so we wouldn't feel so small and alone it would also seem likely that we would have created him to set something up when we die.

Well aren't we all feeble little mortals. You said a lot here, without really saying anything?

Jews believe angels ( and Satan ) have no free will. they are Gods messengers/advocates/errend 'boys' so to speak. they only do as commanded.

The following attributes of (ha'satan) are evident from the Hebrew Bible:

(ha'satan) is an angel, a bona fide member of the Heavenly Host:

Job 1:6 - Now the day came about, and the angels of G-d came to stand beside the L-rd, and the Adversary [ (ha'satan)], too, came among them.

As one of the angels of G-d, (ha'satan) was created without a free will.

Though there is no direct reference to this in the Hebrew Bible[12], it can easily be deduced from the various accounts of angels and their missions, as well as an understanding of what "free will" really means. In the simplest terms, "free will" means the ability to say "no". In all the narratives in the Hebrew Bible where angelic missions and actions are noted, in the Hebrew Bible, there is not a single instance where an angel refused an assigned mission.[13]
As an angel, being a messenger of G-d, (ha'satan) obediently carries out the mission assigned to him by G-d.
(ha'satan) has the job of "testing" people's character in terms of their ability to "test" people's character, their ability to control the evil inclination[14]. As such, he acts as "the prosecution", accusing and presenting the collected evidence in support of the case the "defendant".

The Book of Job is where this battle between (ha'satan) and the good inclination plays out, and where it is evident that (a) he is completely under the control of G-d, acting solely with divine permission to carry out torment, and (B ) man's virtue, a manifestation of the good inclination, can prevail[15].

A religious belief in an entity that competes with G-d and has its own power and authority to oppose Him violates the basic tenets of monotheism. Judaism views (ha'satan) as an angel who works for G-d, not against Him, and who must obtain permission from G-d for every action that he takes.

Lucifer

it is worthwhile to comment on the name Lucifer, which, for many centuries, has been linked to Satan/Devil in Christian writings.( not the same )



The name Lucifer is absent from the New Testament. The late-second-early-third century C.E. Greek Church Father Origen is recognized as the first one to identify Satan with Lucifer[10]. Since that time, the name has found its way into Isaiah 14:12 in several "Old Testament" translations: Jerome's Latin Vulgate (BSV; 405), the King James Version (KJV;1611), the Darby Translation (Darby; 1890), the New King James Version (NKJV; 1982), and the 21st Century King James Version (KJ21; 1994). The KJV renders the verse as follows:

Isaiah 14:12(KJV) - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
The application of the name Lucifer in these Christian translation may have been motivated by the work of Origen, by the supposition that the entire passage, Isaiah 14:4-21, describes Satan, and by the belief that Isaiah 14:12 is explained in the New Testament via passages, such as:

Luke 10:18(KJV) - And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

However, this interpretation of the Isaiah passage turns out to be problematic for Christianity. The name Lucifer means light-bringer in Latin, and in Greek it is phôsphoros (φωσφορος). Both are also references to the planet Venus, which is known as the morning star or star of the morning [αστηρ ο πρωινος (aster o prô'i'nos)]. In the New Testament, both the light-bringer and the morning star are titles applied to Jesus:

2 Peter 1:19(KJV) - We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star [φωσφορος] arise in your hearts:

Revelation 22:16(KJV) - I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star [ο αστηρ ο λαμπρος ο πρωινος].

For this reason, with few exceptions, Christian theologians have generally rejected and abandoned this interpretation of the passage in Isaiah, as is evident from the meager number of translations that use the name Lucifer.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/difference.html


from a interesting site as well -

For the first time the idea is suggested that angels have no free will (Shab. 88b; Gen. R. 48:11). But they do have intellect and an inner life; they argue and are capable of errors (Sand. 38b; Midrash Psalms 18:13). Angels exist to do a single task (BM 86b; Gen. R. 50:2) and exalted as they may be, angels are subordinate to humanity, or at least the righteous (Gen. R. 21; Sand. 93a; Ned. 32a; Deut. R. 1).

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/angels.html

I agree on alot of points . but did you need to sound so arrogant ? calling others feeble little mortal ? it's as bad as those evangelical preachers banging the book about others who don't believe in jesus.

and simple is best . God loves all equally no matter what. We all get to 'heaven' no matter what. pretty simple. and God is 'large' enough to do it. it's all about the experience.

Last I checked we're all mortals.

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
-John Donne