sandee
May 24 2008, 05:14 PM
Did God create sin?
No, God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. It is lawlessness (1 John 3:4). God is the author of the Law which is a reflection of His holy character (Exodus 20). Therefore, God cannot create that which is in direct violation of the Law any more than a person can wish himself to be bigger than the sun. It just isn’t possible.
But, if God didn’t create sin, then where did it come from? This is a question that has been debated by theologians and philosophers for many years. I cannot say that I have any better answers than they. Nevertheless, let me venture a guess.
God created the conditions where free will creatures would be able to make a choice between obedience and disobedience to God. This condition existed when God created an angel called Lucifer who was without sin yet, apparently, had free will. Lucifer chose to rebel against God and sin (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezek. 28:13-15). Likewise, Adam and Eve, having been made by God without sin, listened to the devil and chose to sin against God (Gen. 3).
But God did not cause them to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of their wills, each decided to rebel against God and sin entered the world (Rom. 5:12). God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.
An analogy can be found in the relationship between a parent and a child. A parent can create the condition that makes disobedience possible yet the parent remains innocent if the child sins. For example, if a parent tells his child to clean up his room and the child does not, he has rebelled. But, the parent is not responsible for the child’s sin, nor did he cause the child to sin. The child had a choice to obey or not to obey.
Likewise, God has created the condition in the world where the ability to rebel against Him was possible. Yet, he is not responsible for that rebellion once it has been committed. Therefore, sin originated with Lucifer who was the first to rebel and entered the world through Adam who likewise chose disobedience. http://www.carm.org/questions/didGodcreatesin.htm
We have been discussing this topic in another thread so I decided to make a thread on it.
What are your thoughts? Did God create sin or God create man who created sin or did satan create sin when he defied God?
Or do you have your own theory?
Always a pleasure
Omnaka
May 24 2008, 05:23 PM
Heavenly Father created all spirit Eternal, as eternal spirit children, One must know what bad is to even be able to make a choice as to what one wants to be and how one exists, A comparrison.
Do you think Father did not know what Lucifer was going to do?
Or what adam was going to do?
It is all Part Of fathers perfect plan, even if many are not privy to it.
If there was no education of this sort, one would still be in Heaven where there is only Love and Goodness, but because thats all there is there wouyld be no educating The eternal spirit, as such what would be the Point, a stagnate spirit?
How would one know what good was if he had nothing to compare?
Love Omnaka
Omnaka
May 24 2008, 05:41 PM
Many look at Judas, as a bad guy, in reality he was only playing a part in a bigger plan, For Father, by turning Bro Jesus over to the cops, Judas is loved By Heaven, even if the judges of this world do not love him, Father's plan is beyond many's comprehention. All of the greatest warriors for Love and light, have seen evil at one time or another, as such can recognise it at a glance, They have done bad and chosen Good.
Lucifer was redeemed long ago, and as is prophesised by father, Lives for Good and love, on the last day,
Won't all on Earth be surprised to see him shining with God's light after judging him For Father on that day Ha Ha Ha , Irony at it's best.
Much in Fathers plans are not what it seems, Thois is for an education of the highest kind.
We of the good God race do not create stagnant spirits, Or dumb ones, This education can only be learned by experience, not reading a book.
Love Omnaka
brave_new_world
May 25 2008, 08:56 PM
If God didnt create sin then God hasnt created everything and therefore isnt God.
Dragohunter
May 26 2008, 12:26 AM
Sin exists as the respective of the presence of God. God is infinitely holy and the absence of the acceptance of him results in sin. Opposites must exist. So God did not necessarily create sin. He created beings who can choose to do right or wrong.
Lt_Ripley
May 26 2008, 01:02 PM
yes . if your all knowing and all powerful sure you did.
think of it this way --
you buy a new car - now the manufacture knows that some of those cars are going to fail , lets say the braking system. He knows this to be true but sells the cars anyway.
is he liable if you get in an accident because the brakes fail ??? sure he is. would you sue him .? of course you would. Where as with God 'sin' is just a part of life. part of the expericence. but God is responible nonetheless knowing ahead of time what is to come.
--Mandalore--
May 26 2008, 02:49 PM
I'm gonna quote myself here.
QUOTE
Let me ask you something, is there such thing as heat? Of course! And is there such a thing as cold? No. Let me explain.You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we
don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units. because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat just the absence of it.
What about darkness? Is there such a thing as darkness? No, let me explain.
Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Another question, is there such a thing as evil? Evil does not exist, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.
The point i'm trying to make is, since your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.
Mandalore
churchanddestroy
May 26 2008, 02:52 PM
I was told God created everything, both good and bad, therefore yes, God did create sin.
The Silver Thong
May 26 2008, 02:53 PM
QUOTE (brave_new_world @ May 25 2008, 02:56 PM)
If God didnt create sin then God hasnt created everything and therefore isnt God.
Bingo
Man created sin and what is defined as sin, no more no less.
lil gremlin
May 26 2008, 02:54 PM
did He create sin, course He did....its all part of the plan.
And he loves it when a plan comes together....
Paranoid Android
May 26 2008, 04:08 PM
QUOTE (lil gremlin @ May 27 2008, 12:54 AM)
did He create sin, course He did....its all part of the plan.
And he loves it when a plan comes together....
Is it a sign of my age that I get the joke with this one
I can just imagine God..... wait, no I can't.........
But I do agree with the overall sentiment that God creates evil. God has decreed what is Good. Anything that goes against this then, must by definition be evil (in a theological sense, at least). God may not have set out and said "Right, now I'm creating all the good stuff, now here's all the bad", but the content of his Character defines evil because God has defined good. *though he may have actually gone out of his way to actually create evil if it was part of his plan (which I believe it is).
However, this is all reliant on the predisposition that if God does exist, he/she/it has created a set of universal standards (which is, somewhat unsurprisingly, what I believe).
lil gremlin
May 26 2008, 04:14 PM
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ May 26 2008, 05:08 PM)
Is it a sign of my age that I get the joke with this one
I can just imagine God..... wait, no I can't.........But I do agree with the overall sentiment that God creates evil. God has decreed what is Good. Anything that goes against this then, must by definition be evil (in a theological sense, at least). God may not have set out and said "Right, now I'm creating all the good stuff, now here's all the bad", but the content of his Character defines evil because God has defined good. *though he may have actually gone out of his way to actually create evil if it was part of his plan (which I believe it is).
However, this is all reliant on the predisposition that if God does exist, he/she/it has created a set of universal standards (which is, somewhat unsurprisingly, what I believe).
were you going to say...in a godzilla suit with a big cigar in his mouth?
beliefs are funny things.
brave_new_world
May 26 2008, 04:16 PM
QUOTE (Mandalore23 @ May 26 2008, 10:49 PM)
I'm gonna quote myself here.
Mandalore
One wouldnt know whether warm was the absence of cold and vice versa if one didnt have the experience or at least the concept of them in the first place. I can only tell that cold is the absence of heat because I have experienced heat or learnt the concept.
Likewise. One can only know good because of evil and vice versa.
The absence of something is something in itself. If it was nothing then one wouldnt be able to define it. Since darkness can be defined then it is something.
Leonardo
May 26 2008, 04:18 PM
Am I correct that to 'sin' is to 'go against God'?
If so, and God created sin, He went against Himself.
God self-harms.
brave_new_world
May 26 2008, 04:22 PM
QUOTE (Leonardo @ May 27 2008, 12:18 AM)
Am I correct that to 'sin' is to 'go against God'?
If so, and God created sin, He went against Himself.
God self-harms.
From one philosophical point of view yes you are correct I rekon!
brave_new_world
May 26 2008, 04:27 PM
Let me add that if a christian wants to say that God didnt directly create sin and man did then how about this.
God creates man with the function of free-will. Man uses it in a way that displeases God. Man got his function of free-will from God. God therefore indirectly (direcly in my view) created sin.
Brahmana
May 26 2008, 06:21 PM
QUOTE (brave_new_world @ May 26 2008, 12:27 PM)
Let me add that if a christian wants to say that God didnt directly create sin and man did then how about this.
God creates man with the function of free-will. Man uses it in a way that displeases God. Man got his function of free-will from God. God therefore indirectly (direcly in my view) created sin.
I actually believe that we are co-creators WITH God. We were part of the being of God, yet seperate, with our own soul identities, because He desired expression, companionship. In reality, we rule over all that is material, any thing that exists in the physical plane; only problem is that we are in a fallen state. He did give us free will, and with that free will, we chose the ego over God, it is this action that created sin. Cause and effect created karma. The cause=free will, the effect=sin, making the wrong choice. the whole material experience is the direct result from the choice to seperate self from God. WE created sin through OUR OWN creative powers. God ALLOWED it. But by doing so, immediately created a way to counter our mistake and find our way back to Him. You have the fallen Adam; us, and you have the perfect Adam, Jesus the Christ.
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