The Thunderbird Wheel has been activated.

I just returned from the fifth annual ICCRA (Independent Crop Circle Researchers Association) Conference in Locust Grove, Ohio, where I gave a 1 1/2 hour presentation on the subject of my contributions to decoding the Howell, Michigan crop circles and my subsequent decoding of several elements of the overall crop circle mystery. The conference began on the afternoon of Friday, May 9, and ended with an optional tour of the local Indian mounds on the afternoon of Sunday the 11th. The tour continued on Monday, after which the remaining handful of people, including Jeff Wilson, Delsey Wilson, and Dr. John Paul DeVierville, scattered at the Mound Cemetery in Piketon, Ohio. Before Jeff and Delsey left, I asked Jeff if he could recommend any Indian mound sites that I could visit on my way back to Grand Rapids.

After we disbanded, I visited seven Indian Mound sites on my way back home to Grand Rapids:

1) Edgington Mound - Neville, Ohio
2) the mound at Green Mound Cemetery – New Richmond, Ohio
3) Miamisburg Mound – Miamisburg, Ohio
4) the mounds at The Wright Brothers Memorial - Dayton, Ohio
5) the mounds at Antioch University – Yellow Springs, Ohio
6) Enon Mound – Enon, Ohio
7) the Anderson Earthworks at Mounds State Park, Anderson, Indiana

At each of the mound sites (except for Edgington Mound and Enon Mound, which were fenced off) I removed my shoes and socks (in order to establish a direct connection with the Earth), stood at the top of the mound, and talked with the spirits - with special focus on my deceased grandparents, Harold and Dorothy Prange, who had made their presence known to me loud and clear through a series of symbolic synchronicities and well-timed animal appearances that happened constantly from the moment I left for the ICCRA conference. To talk to the spirits, I simply spoke aloud the thoughts in my head I wanted them to hear without ritual or self-consciousness; to hear the responses, I simply paid attention to the animal appearances and synchronicities that occurred, and decoded the symbolism of each occurrence with a language that became clearer with every completed communication circuit. The visits to each mound - which were ensured by the instinctual feeling that I should visit each mound site that Jeff had marked on my map - extended my arrival back home in Grand Rapids from my originally planned Monday arrival to two full days later, on early Wednesday evening around 7-8 PM EST.

At the conference, there was a new level of organic convergence of agreements among a majority of the researchers- a (sometimes) unspoken and sometimes spoken mutual understanding that many core elements of the mystery have been solved; universal understandings achieved through acceptance of different perspectives and information coming from many different angles, from scientists to musicians, from discussions that blurred lines between presenters and audience. By embracing our differences and avoiding pyramid-shaped hierarchies, I believe we have found the answers to three core questions of the crop circle mystery: 1)Who is making the genuine crop circles, 2)What they are trying to tell us, and 3)Why they are making them.

I'll answer question #1 as a statement of renewed and permanent personal belief to the public, resulting from new information revealed at the ICCRA meeting: The "masterminds" behind the genuine crop circle phenomenon are the spirits of our ancestors, from our deceased parents and grandparents back through the ancient Hopewell mound builders and further into the past. Together, as a cooperative community in the spirit world, they are consciously creating crop circles to convey an overall message to their living descendants, with a universal language that could be understood globally, containing individual messages for individual crop formations layered with messages that can be found by connecting data from whole groups of crop formations together.

To physically create the formations planned out, I believe that our ancestors' spirits work together with forces known by many vague, all-encompassing names depending on the level of individuality and freedom of one's spiritual views: "forces of nature," "conscious nature spirits," "devas," etc. Those who have a more pyramid-shaped spiritual belief system (a.k.a. organized mainstream religion, or any other “brand name” belief system that has a name and a set of constricting rules, featuring ritual, conformity, tradition, hierarchy, and other traits associated with the reptilian brain) may (for now) be able to understand this if I replace the above terms under a larger umbrella name such as "God," "Allah," "Jah," "Buddha," etc.

To put it simple, I believe our ancestor's spirits plan the locations, design and timing of a crop formation, and then enlist the force I describe in the above paragraph when the time is ready to physically create the formation.

The rest, including the answers to questions 2 & 3 (Why are they making them and what are they saying) is covered in my crop circle essay, which I'm in the process of expanding into a book for national release. Link to my essay, which was the basis for my presentation at the ICCRA conference:
www.scatterdome.com/howell.htm

One of the biggest keys to cracking the main crop circle code turned out to be an ubiquitous Native American legend of the Thunderbird. ICCRA director Jeff Wilson, through his meticulous and thorough research, realized that the circlemakers have been frequently encoding the symbolism of this Thunderbird legend into crop circles; at the meeting, we collectively realized - with Jeff's updated presentation on the Thunderbirds as a centerpiece - that the circlemakers are using that legend to symbolize what’s currently happening on our planet. Through Jeff’s revelations, which began a year ago at the 4th annual ICCRA conference with his brilliant “Return Of The Thunderbirds” presentation, we were able to collectively answer several of the primary mysteries of the crop circle phenomenon at the 5th annual conference. From here on out, the remainder of the mystery is just detail work. The overall message of the crop circle phenomenon has been decoded; however, individual crop formations have individual messages which still need to be decoded, and thus, the detail work. Don’t worry, crop circle researchers- decoding crop circles is going to be smooth sailing from here on out.

I will now tell my simplified version of the Thunderbirds legend:

Many Native American tribes used the Thunderbird legend to create a beautifully simple spiritual language to understand the nature of “darkness” vs. “light.” Firstly, they applied the story as an analogy of the daily cycle between night and day: When the sun set and night time came, the Great Horned Serpent would drive away the Thunderbirds and take over, as night time was his time. (All things associated with “darkness” are then associated with the Great Horned Serpent; “darkness” is then associated with “Serpent energy.”) When it was time for the daytime cycle to begin, the four Thunderbirds would return, forming an unbreakable circle, as seen in the Native American symbol of the “Thunderbird Wheel,” generating great wind and lightning to cast the Great Horned Serpent underground. (All things associated with “light”- love, laughter, truth, etc.- were then associated with the Thunderbird, representing “Thunderbird energy.”) Daytime was the Thunderbirds’ realm, and they would rule until the next cycle began.

A crucial part of this legend was the inherent understanding that the language of “Thunderbird vs. Serpent” does not mean “good vs. evil,” it means “light vs. darkness.” The language of this legend leads to an understanding that darkness and light must both exist in the natural cycles of life, so darkness is not the same as the loaded word “evil.” A simple understanding of this leads to other simple spiritual truths: in order to have life, you must have death to balance it out; order and chaos must both exist for the cycles of life to exist; etc. Thus, Serpent Energy is not “evil” - it’s “dark.”

Some important details: 1)Traditionally, the symbolic Thunderbird Wheel (which I’m using for my user logo on this forum, if you need a visual representation) must always move in a counter-clockwise rotation. 2) When a traditional depiction of the wheel is spun fast enough, it achieves an "hourglass shading" that has been seen in many a crop circle. 3) Many crop circles are variations on the Thunderbird wheel and the closely associated symbols of the Four Winds.

While the daily cycle of night and day is the core of the Thunderbird legend, the symbolism of the legend could also be applied to bigger-scale cycles of time, from the history of a village up through the scale of the rise and fall of whole civilizations – which is one of the scales in which the crop circles have been symbolically telling the story of what’s happening in the world right now.

Through the story being told in the crop circles, I came to understand that we are now living in a time where – symbolically - the Serpent Energy has gotten out of hand on this planet, and the Four Thunderbirds – an inevitable force in the cycle of nature, as both sides understand - are due to return and force the Great Horned Serpent underground, as it is now time for the dawn.

The level of convergence and agreement reached at the meeting among researchers coming from all different angles told me that the groundwork required to crack the central crop circle code in a group effort has now been solidly laid down, and the information collectively realized at the meeting will now spread throughout the world, as revelations from various ICCRA meeting attendees begin to trickle out to the public.

In our modern times, I believe that the symbol of “driving the Great Horned Serpent underground” is the same as “dismantling the New World Order before it’s complete.” I believe that the two biggest keys to dismantling the New World Order are: 1) exposing the New World Order to the brainwashed public until public awareness of their plans for global domination has reached a high enough percentage to derail the plans, and 2) reconnecting the people of the world to the energies of the Earth (through the ley line map, which is one of the New World Order's biggest secret keys to power, and which is being methodically revealed to the public by the circlemakers, as you will see in my essay) and thus reconnecting us into direct contact with the spirits of our ancestors (who can be most easily contacted at the intersections of ley lines, which is why Indian Mounds and other sacred sites were built where they're built). Crop circles are giving us the missing information required to bring down the New World Order- including information that only a spirit who has crossed over could know.

I believe the best two authors exposing the New World Order are, in a non-hierarchical order, 1) Jim Marrs, whose smoothly written, well-documented books are a perfect introduction for the “skeptic” who is in denial that a conspiracy even exists, and 2) David Icke, who takes the 3D information covered by Jim Marrs and then adds the next-dimensional level, where he reveals one of the New World Order’s biggest secrets to their power- the possession of royal bloodlines by ancient reptilian entities.

I believe the leading researcher/communicator in the subject of crop circles is my good friend Jeff Wilson, who I feel is the crop circle researcher best equipped to finally get the mainstream media to take crop circles seriously; his brilliant and charismatic presentations on crop circles at the last few ICCRA meetings represent the cutting edge of crop circle research, in my opinion; as soon as we get them up on YouTube (coming soon!), any crop circle researchers who have been stuck in the same place (hitting their head against the dead end of “extraterrestrial signs”) are going to get “unstuck from the mud” and find a fresh burst of inspiration, knowing that the whole mystery is well on its way to being solved.

I am absolutely humbled and honored to have ended up in the role where I have filled in several crucial missing pieces of the puzzle for Jeff and the other ICCRA researchers; firstly, my essay has made the connection between the harsh reality of the New World Order as explained by David Icke, and how crop circles fit into that “big picture.” I have gone on to find new and simple ways to decode the messages in crop circles, which started with my decoding of the Howell, Michigan crop circles and expanded into the scale of dozens of interlocking crop circles in the U.S.A., which is covered in the second half of my essay. It is very important for anyone reading this to understand that I take very little of the credit for what has been revealed in my essay; everything was basically put in my path since I made my initial discovery in Howell (or more likely, years before that discovery was placed precisely in my path) as I was given valuable clues by countless friends I have in both the spirit world and the world of mortals.

The only thing for which I will take a lot of credit is that I had the courage to go up against the Freemasons, which started by revealing to the public that the Howell crop circles had exposed the remains of some blatant, creepily occultic Masonic symbolism landscaped into the field and forest around the locations of the Howell crop formations. Consequently, I am the first crop circle researcher to end up on the Freemasons’ public “Anti-Mason” list, which exists on the masonicinfo.com website, which claims that it is not an “official” site despite the fact that the Freemasons’ official website, freemasonry.org, sends you right to masonicinfo.com on it’s “E-Mason Links” page as its #1 recommendation for reading their take on specific people who oppose Freemasonry, or “Anti-Masons.” In their entry on me, they ridicule my “credentials” as a writer/researcher and then go on to put words in my mouth by reversing my most crucial point: according to this website, I am saying that THEY are making crop circles, when anyone reading my essay can clearly see that I’m saying the opposite, that I think spirits directly OPPOSED to the Masons’ agenda are making crop circles. Considering the far-out “X-Files” nature of my subject matter, you’d think they could use my own words against me in their effort to portray me as a backwoods, uneducated “loony.” Instead, their reversal of my words showed me that I’m onto the truth; it’s a transparent propaganda technique they’re using to reduce traffic to my essay’s website, which they use to tell the public that they are “unafraid” of a loony like me. They know that many people will not bother to read my essay if they assume that I actually am dumb enough to think that Freemasons are behind the crop circle phenomenon; basically, their entry on me is a form of “damage control” on their part.

This brings me to my next idea. If a person were to check out Jim Marrs’ work and become aware of the New World Order, the next step would be to check out David Icke’s work. To connect that “big picture” to the crop circle phenomenon, I believe that my essay (soon to become a book) represents the link between the two, and thus the next logical step for someone who reads a David Icke book. The final stop in this quartet would be Jeff Wilson’s work, for those who want to learn about the cutting edge of crop circle research from the best spokesman we have. My theory on this is: depending one one’s field of interest and level of skepticism, the work of one of these four researchers follow a logical flow from one to the next. For example, if you’re interested in crop circles but afraid to read about conspiracies, the best starting point would be Jeff Wilson’s work, after which the best order of progression would be: 2) Jim Marrs, 3) David Icke, and finally, 4) my work. To sum up the four different paths I propose based on the starting point:

1) Jim Marrs -> David Icke -> Jim Prange -> Jeff Wilson
2) David Icke -> Jim Prange -> Jeff Wilson -> Jim Marrs
3) Jim Prange -> Jeff Wilson -> Jim Marrs -> David Icke
4) Jeff Wilson -> Jim Marrs -> David Icke -> Jim Prange

A flow chart could be put onto a wheel to demonstrate: Start at one researcher, spin the wheel 90 degrees counterclockwise to check out the next, and hit the other two in order to complete the fully locking information circle:

Since the connection is a complete circuit, the truth is revealed to those who complete the circuit and use their own minds to decide whether it make sense as a whole. As the public wakes up, and more and more people are exposed to the four researchers on this “wheel,” it could be symbolized by the wheel turning faster and faster and faster, until it creates the great wind and lightning needed to symbolically
”drive the Great Horned Serpent underground.”

When we reached a convergence of awareness at the 5th annual ICCRA meeting, enough where the ideas and higher perspectives achieved can now spread through the crop circle research community like wildfire, I believe that we have officially reached the tipping point that has activated the “Thunderbird Wheel” to the point where its momentum is unstoppable. In a way, the crop circles have symbolically pointed me to believe that by cracking the crop circle code and reaching a large group of dedicated crop circle researchers with the information, the symbolic, interlocking “Thunderbird Wheel” of information needed to wake up the masses is now complete, which means that the New World Order is now officially destined to fail.

Now that the Thunderbird Wheel has been activated, I have an important message to any reptilian spirits still working for the New World Order’s side through their human and full-blooded reptilian hosts: You must realize that you now have three basic choices: 1) Realize that love and truth are the mark of the winning side and join the Thunderbirds’ side, 2) Leave the planet and relocate to your colony planet(s) full of human abductees, if you really want another shot at a similarly styled New World Order somewhere else, or 3) Keep doing what you’re doing to this Earth and you WILL be blown away with a great wind by the unstoppable electric momentum of the Thunderbird Wheel.

To read more about the Thunderbird wheel connections being found in crop circles, check out the following links:

http://cropcircleconnector.com/forum/viewt...767a5bb15#63333

http://cropcircleconnector.com/forum/viewt...p?p=63596#63596

http://cropcircleconnector.com/forum/viewt...6b35e5689608485

Very soon, Jeff Wilson's most recent presentation on the Thunderbirds connection will be posted online, and I will post a notice on this thread when it is. For now, the links above will provide a few clues about the Thunderbird-crop circle connection.


Once again, here’s the link to my online essay:
http://www.scatterdome.com/howell.htm

Happy decoding.

Jim Prange
Member, ICCRA (Independent Crop Circle Researchers Association)
616-745-4028

This title will be released on June 24, 2008:

Do the Native American Esoteric Spiritual Elders backup/confirm all or any of this?...
(Marrs & Icke's research(?) with their beliefs)


Because frankly i'm a little weary of blokes from the likes of Marrs & Icke coming outta the wood work using their names stories & legends(?) to sell books & propheteering profiteering off the backs of the indigenous people...especially round this time, ya know so close to 2012 (tis a great time to get rich selling doomsday end-time stories).

David icke has to be a plant, noone ever gets "famous" like that with such a cult following without the consent and control of the Elite.

Those that would are dead long before they make it, as truth is the greatest enemy of the (corporate/government)state

I’m not sure, but I’m about to find out. In a couple of weeks I will be attending my first pow-wow, where I will present my symbolic “Thunderbird Wheel” to the elders for consideration as a potent “information weapon.”

My personal observation is that the worldviews of most Native Americans I have encountered (in person or in the media) tend to align with the worldview presented by Marrs and Icke, at least more often than the average non-native American. That’s just personal experience, though; I’m sure I’ll have a much clearer idea of this when I talk to the elders in a couple of weeks.


To make things clear: Marrs and Icke are not presenting the “Thunderbird Information Wheel” concept to the public- I am.

I’m not sure if Jim Marrs’ use of a Thunderbird Wheel on the cover of his upcoming book is the result of a conscious effort on his part to symbolically align himself with the “Thunderbird,” or if it’s just one of those beautiful synchronicities that resulted from an instinctual hunch on his part. I’d like to ask him someday…

One thing that I love about Marrs and Icke’s work is how clearly they expose the elite’s methodical use of “doomsday fears” to control the masses over the centuries, while simultaneously presenting information that strongly functions as one of the best ways to avoid a REAL doomsday, as the information presented in their books awakes the masses to the reality of the New World Order, which paves the way for a peaceful dismantling of the elite’s plans for global domination.



Question to Zaus: have you read any of David Icke’s recent books that focus on the overall “big picture” of the New World Order? The books of which I speak would include any of the following titles: The David Icke Guide To The Global Conspiracy and How To End It (2007), Tales From The Time Loop (2003), Alice In Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster (2002), Children Of The Matrix (2000), or The Biggest Secret (1999)

If you have read one of these books, then I would like you to cite specific examples from any one of those books where Icke has used bad information to support his theories. So far, I have yet to meet someone who actually reads one of those books, and then is able to point out a major, specific example of Icke basing any element of his theory on a proven lie. If you can do this, Zaus, then I will be eager to enter into an intelligent discussion with you on whether or not Icke’s a “plant,” as you will be the first person I have met who has managed to catch him “slipping up.” (His early “turquoise days” don’t count; I’m talking about RECENT Icke material from the last ten years, of which there is plenty to choose.)

If you have not read a David Icke book, than your opinion on him being a “plant” is null and void, unless you’ve caught him lying in some other public format besides a book. No one would pay attention to a movie review that trashes the movie when the reviewer has admitted that he only saw the trailer for the movie instead of the actual movie. In other words, if you have not read one of his books, then you are like a movie reviewer trashing a movie that you have not seen. Unless, of course, you HAVE caught him with a specific example of “slipping up big time” since his “turquoise days,” in which case, we’ll talk. If you have not read any of the five books cited above, nor found a specific example of a major piece of bad data presented by Icke as truth, then I recommend that you read one of those books, and then let us know if your opinion has changed now that it’s an informed opinion.

If all truth-tellers were killed by the elite, as you say, then that would mean that nobody has ever published a well-known book on conspiracies who was not serving the New World Order, nor would anyone who has published 1,000 posts on a NWO/UFO-related messageboard have ever stayed alive unless they were actually serving the NWO. So if what you say is true, then where does that leave you, Zaus? Think about it…

My perspective, which I believe has kept me alive, is that those that find the truth and immediately put it into the public record are protected from physical harm by the NWO, because the instant that they make that information public is the instant that the NWO realize that “character assassination” is their best shot at dealing with that person from there on out. If an activist has already put their “info bomb” out into the public record, the NWO know that making a martyr out of that person would only draw attention to the information they have published, whereas “character assassination” is an effective method for them to reduce the amount of people who read the material. Just check out what the Masons wrote about me on their website, if you want a crystal-clear example. (The link to that is provided at the top of my crop circle essay, which is linked twice in my first post.) As the first crop circle researcher to make it onto the Masons’ public online “sh*t-list,” I find it hilarious and reassuring that they had to resort to reversing my words in order to portray me as a “loony,” considering that my subject matter deals with crop circles and reptilians.

Another thing: if you’re willing to call David Icke a “plant,” then you must be also willing to call Jim Marrs a plant, since Jim Marrs openly, yet subtly, endorses Icke’s work in the last few chapters of his book “Rule By Secrecy.” In those final chapters, Marrs opens the door to Icke by frequently adding in comments on how Icke’s views could tie smoothly into his “big picture,” while he carefully avoids a public statement of belief in reptilians.

The answer to that question can be found at the end of a video from 2003 in which Jim Marrs gives a presentation that follows the same basic framework as “Rule By Secrecy.” At the end of his lecture, he opens up a question-and-answer session with the audience. In that segment, the following dialogue occurs between 1:55:00 and 1:56:31:

MAN WITH QUESTION: Hi, Jim. David Icke had a big sold-out conference in London recently, talking about exactly the same subjects. And he also spent a bit of time on the evidence for reptilian-oriented control of the top of this native pyramid, if you like. What sort of input are you getting on the same subject?”

JIM MARRS: It’s interesting, because when you follow the evidence, you just kind of get there. But let me tell you something- I met David Icke, and I really… I kind of like David. And it’s interesting, because I wasn’t even aware of him until the last moment writing Rule By Secrecy, and yet we were both following the evidence and we were both running pretty parallel. The big difference is this: along with my newspaper background, I also augmented my low reporter’s pay by working and dabbling in public relations and advertising. And I know enough about public relations that I don’t believe I’m going to really win friends and influence a lot of people by publicly calling the Queen Mother of England a 200-year old reptilian cannibal. (audience laughter and clapping) It’s not to be saying it’s not true, It’s just I’m saying… (pauses for more audience laughter) I’m just saying: I’m not saying that! (laughs.)

Here's a link to a direct download of the lecture, from my website:
http://www.scatterdome.com/Jim Marrs - 2003 lecture.avi

Zaus and REBEL, thanks for inspiring me to finally post the video and transcript of that quote on the internet. I think there are many Jim Marrs fans who are still unwilling to check out Icke’s work because of the reptilian factor. If more Jim Marrs fans who are closed off to checking out Icke saw this video, they might rethink their reluctance to check out Icke’s work.

Friendly warning, Wabun: advertising products on UM is against the Terms of Service. You might want to take down the link before a mod does it for you.

--Jaylemurph

There isn't a rolling eyes emote big enough for a topic such as this.

I found Icke's books a little like watching pornos, seen (read) one you've basically seen (read) them all.

A cunning author who knows how to mix 'n match/recycle his earlier books/material, giving you the illusion of all new *research(?) (with a few chapters here & there thrown in at the right time) but on different format. Anyone who read his books will know what i'm yip yapping about.



* 'Most of his so called research' can be done by anyone of us, by going online.

You need to see a better class of dirty movies, friend.

--Jaylemurph

Or read a better class of conspiracy books...

Oh really? Is there any specific thing you found wrong with my theory or my supporting facts, after you read the entire essay supporting my theory?

Let’s see… I’d estimate it takes about 5-10 minutes to read my initial post, about 1-2 hours to read my essay without checking out the links, and well over 4 hours (and beyond) to read my whole essay AND to check out all of the links I have provided containing supporting evidence.

Surely you HAVE done all that, right? Since if you hadn't, it would be like writing a movie review when you've only seen the trailer. And noone would write a movie review if they had only seen the trailer. So, after doing all of that research, how did you arrive at this judgment? Since you have apparently checked out all of this evidence, to the point where you are confident that your opinion on this actually matters enough to share it with the public, could you cite something specific that doesn’t make sense about it?

Thanks, Jaylemurph— I just took out the amazon link. I hadn’t even thought of that.

Wow! So you claim that you have read his books… OK then, can you then cite something specific that doesn’t make sense about his theories, or cite a specific fact that he got wrong? My experience is that his critics never seem to able to do this without distorting or reversing his words, so I challenge you to step up to the plate and be the first, REBEL.

( Note to intelligent readers: The key word in the above paragraph is “claim.” )

I read 4 or 5 his books...If you read his books he doesn't see most of it if not all as 'theories'...AND never said his books ''made no sense'' & were total bulsh*t...err well the reptilian bit kinda threw me off tho (Children of the Matrix)...BUT what i did say his books are basically all the same with few chapters with different material here & there thrown in. Go online and cross-check his work (he even asks you to do so in his books) and you'll see a lot of his research(?) came from other genuine researchers/authors.

One word. "REPTILES"

Meh. I still say Icke is just mis-remembering Doctor Who and the Silurians.

--Jaylemurph

Or VThe Mini Series which he cites as some kinda reference in The Biggest Secret & Children of the Matrix.


Diana is a smok'n hot...grrr!

I have personally seen many intricate crop circles being designed through fractal geometry samples by college students(one of which was my cousin, an electrical engineer) produced in the span of 4 to 6 hours in the middle of the night in Saskatchewan.

They are all manmade.

And Eric Raven beat me to it...REPTILES. Icke is a kook...pure and simple

thought i replied here yesterday...? meh

REBEL

check out the interview with credo mutwa (zulu shaman) sorry i don't have the link bookmarked anymore but it's easy enough to track down via google..


well, i thought i posted something about this yesterday (it's not here) but since it's been mentioned..

..they AREN'T ALL MAN MADE.. unless these hoazers have been making them for over 80 years across the globe.. my grandfathers father had them in his fields (we're in Australia)

Point (1): I'm not sure that they are. I think the more elaborate ones, they probably are, but I think the simpler one is, the more likely it is to be real, because if you're going to go to all the trouble to make one, then you'll probably try to make it as elaborate as possible, to make it worthwhile, if that makes sense.
(2): Indeed he is, although he is also immensely amusing.

(3): um, I've just realised I'm trying to rationally respond to a thread that's something to do with the NWO.

Notice how the word 'reply' sounds very similar to 'reptile'...


Just jiving ya Unit


Saw the interview, (Reptilian Agenda) bout 2-3 years back on bootleg, over frigg'n 5hrs of it, something you don't wanna sit thru & watch a second time imo but basically recall him claiming they (Chitauri / Reptoids) <--(that word always kills me lol!) look like Darth Maul from Star Wars. *GULP*


edit; tpyo

Good post, I think we've cracked it...

Behold...people, the unlocking of the great Thunderbird wheel!!



Oh? er...erm how did this happen?
Ok....I humbly accept.

In the 96,000 + Googlely Googley Google results (images), this is the closest i came to a Thunderbird Wheel...

Rope, wooden boards, mathematics, and geometry have been around for a few thousand years.

Nothing new I say.

Man made...just like the Nazca Lines

Part 1/3:







Readers, notice that none of these “debunkers” so far have answered this challenge: to find something specifically wrong with my theory and/or my supporting facts, after reading my entire crop circle essay – and then to actually discuss the facts and details on this thread. Instead, so far, every one of these debunkers is either unable to find any actual factual or logical errors in my essay, or haven’t even read the essay at all.

Readers, if you knew a movie reviewer hadn’t seen the movie he was reviewing, but had only seen the trailer, would there be any point to even reading his movie review? If he claimed to have seen the movie, but did not mention any specific plot elements in his review, nor the names of the characters, nor the names of anyone involved with the production, would you give any weight at all to his movie review?

Of course not, which is why none of these “conflicting opinions” that I have heard on this thread so far have any value whatsoever.

If one of my “debunkers,” is ready to discuss something specific from my essay, or even mention anything at all from my essay, I’m still waiting for a response to my call.

So far, I hear crickets chirping, but that’s about it.

In case any of you already forgot that the whole point of my introductory post about “cracking the crop circle code” was for readers to check out my crop circle essay and to decide for themselves if the evidence I present supports my theory, here’s the link again:
www.scatterdome.com/howell.htm

Now watch this “conversation” unfold, as the psy-ops goons desperately try to get you to forget that this thread is a doorway to the truth about crop circles, without providing any details, links, or any form of backing evidence whatsoever.

Their message:
“Go back to sleep, people… crop circles are either aliens or a hoax…. aliens or a hoax… aliens or a hoax… aliens or a hoax… aliens or a hoax… aliens or a hoax… you have only two choices… aliens or a hoax….back to sleep…you did not hear anything about spirits… go back to sleep…”

Continued in Part 2:

Part 2/3:



Again…




Notice the next character who comes in here: he is here to scare off any of the open-minded readers of this thread who weren’t already turned off by the lowbrow tone of the previous “debunkers.” MolonLabe doesn’t really believe a word he’s writing; the point of his character is to upset open-minded people and scare them away from this thread who see it as a lost cause, believing him to be a real person stating what he actually thinks, as opposed to a standard-issue government debunk-bot. “Oh, the ignorance!”

Look out everybody, here comes MolonLabe:


Funny how that works, huh? Your post was not debunking my post, so it had to go.

If they erase this one too, just keep posting it.

Here’s the link to the whole Icke/Mutwa interview, titled The Reptilian Agenda:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9...ISBCQ&hl=en

He speaks very slowly, but the information is good.

As for the Native Americans, I would say that one big indicator, for starters, is the symbolism of the Thunderbird legend (Thunderbird Vs. Serpent) that I detailed in my first post.

Good point! I’m glad someone here finally has one on this thread… Now I’ll one up ya--

Crop circles have been reported for centuries.

I’ll let ICCRA director Jeff Wilson explain, by reposting part of his post from 12/10/04 at the now-defunct “cropcirclenews.com.” Here it is:

Here are some references to help get you up to speed:
The Natural History of Stafford-Shire
By Robert Plot, LLD
Keeper of the Ashmolean Museum
And Professor of Chemistry in the University of Oxford
M.DC.L***VI [1686]

1686 - Robert Plot, a chemistry professor from Oxford University, in his words 'excavated' over 50 crop circle sites from southern England, and uncovered about 50 more historical reports from other observers and farmers (the earliest dating to 1590). He noted simple circles, circle rings, circle spirals, circles with SQUARES, and arrangements of flattened lines in both cereal crops and field grasses. Plot did the first soil sample testing where he compared soil from the center of circles to soil from the inside edges to soil from outside of the circles (as a control). Plot noted that soil from inside the circles was much more dehydrated, and found 'white, sulfurous residues'. Plot noted that crop yields increased by about 30% in the successive season in the areas where crop circles were found. He made several diagrams of examples of the crop circles he visited, and were included in this book. Plot suggested that perhaps 'hollow thunderbolts' were responsible for the crop circles - indicating he believed there may have been an electrical component involved in the physical mechanism for flattening the crop circles. Plot spent about 20 years collecting information about crop circles until his death in the 1690's.

1790-1793 Gentlemen's Magazine

The 'Time Magazine' of its day, "Gentleman's Magazine" reported on current events worldwide. Over a three-year period, "Gentlemen's Magazine" published several articles and readers' letters discussing the origin of 'fairy rings' [now called crop circles]. Diagrams of several crop circle formations were included. One of the letters references a Royal Society paper which discusses the mechanism for the creation of crop circles (also electrical in nature). The discussion is dominated by two camps: one which is clearly discussing crop circles as being flattened, swirled circles of wheat and grasses; and the second is a group which discusses modern-day 'fairy rings'as being caused by a fungus, or the fungus rings which we all know are now well-understood.

1847 - "The Magic Circle In The Prairie" by Henry Schoolcraft

Henry Schoolcraft [of which Schoolcraft College was later named for], produced a report for the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs on Indian Ethnography work he was doing in the U.S. Midwest. Included in his report was a section titled "The Magic Circle In The Prairie" which was a description of a flattened circle of prairie grass, and one Indian's experience surrounding his visiting this site. It is most likely a recounting of a (much) older Ojibway legend.

These other historical reports (especially Plot's, a respected scientist of his day), when added to J.Rand Capron's (another respected scientist of his day) descriptions in "Nature" magazine in 1880, would seem to establish that crop circles have been at least noted and observed with various levels of detail at least once every hundred years for the past few centuries.

You can find the original messageboard cache of Jeff's post by putting keywords into a Google search, and then hitting “cache” when you find a sample of the above text from cropcirclenews.com.

747400:

Thanks for bringing up the “genuine vs. hoax” issue.

Here’s Jeff Wilson’s statistics detailing the percentage of genuine, hoaxed, and untested crop circles in the U.S., taken from 344 reports between 1990 and 2004:

Type: Number: Percentage:
Traditional 229 67%
RDF (Randomly Downed Formation) 45 13%
Hoax 21 6%
Other 49 14%

A note from Jeff, regarding these statistics:

It is important to note that the number and percentage of the confirmed hoax reports (where sufficient evidence was available to confirm a formation was man-made) is quite low in the USA. This is not so for all countries around the world, where much higher rates of hoaxing is present. Unfortunately, the number of hoax reports has risen in the last several years, but still remains relatively low. Also, we could consider further subdivisions within the above types, but that falls outside the scope of this project. It is worthwhile, however, to consider that while it might be convenient to study formations in such categories and divisions, crop circle formations really lie along a continuum or spectrum of possible types:

Complex: 100 to 1,000 ft.
Arrangements of circles: 20 to 400 ft
Simple circles: 1 to 120 ft.
Randomly Downed: 10 to 1,000 ft.

I left out Jeff’s photos to illustrated the above types; I’ll add them in tomorrow, if I get my scanner working again.

Thanks to the consistent scientific methods of testing of the three most widespread North American crop circle research groups- the ICCRA, BLT, and CCCRN teams- a majority of crop circles reported are tested with sound methods, thus discouraging the Rockefeller-funded “Team Satans” and such who are running rampant in Great Britain. In Britain, the crop circle researchers are not nearly as well-organized as these North American groups, having been infiltrated thoroughly by CIA and Masonic psy-ops agents such as Jim Schnabel, author of the ridiculous book “Round In Circles,” which “concludes” that all crop circles are manmade.

Continued in Part 3:

Part 3/3:




Notice how he still has not yet managed to address anything specific from my essay, whatsoever.

At this point, I should remind readers that ICCRA stands for Independent Crop Circle Researchers Association.

This means that I am speaking for noone but myself here; I am not an official spokesman for the group. Some of my friends from the group may very well be initially alarmed to discover that I’ve gone ahead and made this bold claim publicly, without consulting anyone in the group about the decision to do it.

But there are two major reasons I knew that now was the right time to make an announcement, full speed ahead:

1) I knew that the presentations and conversations at the conference indicated that after 4 annual meetings that had progressively become more “convergent,” the 5th ICCRA meeting was the meeting where we collectively figured out who is making crop circles, why they are making them, and their overall message to the masses. Nobody announced out loud at the meeting that we had figured it out, but most of us knew it without having to say it.

2)I knew that the facts I have compiled in my crop circle essay speak for themselves.

Once again, the link to my crop circle essay:
www.scatterdome.com/howell.htm

Let’s see how REBEL’s doing in answering my challenge to talk about something specific from my essay:


Well, it was good to see that a real person (“unit”) started posting on this thread, to finally counteract all of the Masonic/CIA debunk-bots.

A warning to the debunk-bots: I have already exposed you to any intelligent readers who were paying attention.

Readers: notice how none of the debunkers actually discussed anything from my crop circle essay, though my whole point in starting this thread was to introduce the essay for consideration in an intelligent discussion about crop circles.

Readers, this was just an exercise in calling out disinformation/psy-ops agents such as REBEL, Zaus and MolonLabe, just so you could see how it really works.

Do not underestimate the percentage of people who are hired by the New World Order to swarm messageboards such as this with "opinions" that are intended to sway weaker readers who aren't prone to checking out evidence and thinking for themselves.

”REBEL,” “Zaus” and “MolonLabe" have made their true nature exceedingly obvious to all readers of this thread.

Would any of you other disinformation agents like to come out of the woodwork and reveal your game to the public? This thread is a great place to do it, because my group has just found out much of the truth about crop circles, and the data WILL prove this to anyone with an open mind who checks out my essay and all of the hyperlinks to other websites contained within, and therefore will prove that everything that you have posted on this forum is skewed to intentionally mislead people.

Disinformation agents are sometimes very easy to spot; they're the ones who express "strong opinions" about something they obviously haven't even checked out, and then attack writers such as myself who invite readers to check out the evidence and think for themselves before coming to conclusions.

I would now like to invite anyone interested in what I'm saying to move this discussion into a higher level, maybe a level where we can actually discuss something from my essay, the subject of this thread.

Here’s one thing I’d like readers here to see: watched what happened on the David Icke forum when I came in on page 19 of a thread called “crop circle…95% military, 5% hoax, 0%alien” an exposed a couple of disinformation agents with their own words.

It’s pretty fun to watch, and educational, too.

To read the ridiculous initial post that started the thread, click here:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26022

To enter the discussion where I came in on page 19 and began exposing disinformation agents, click here:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread....022&page=19

To any disinformation agents who intend to keep posting completely empty “critiques” of my essay on this thread: you may want to click on those links, just to see what’s in store for you. After reading all of these “debunkings” of my theory, I just have to ask: we are, after all, on the internet, so I’m wondering: do any of you know how to follow a link? I haven’t seen any evidence of that, yet…

Can i just make sure that I've got this right? You were responding to REBEL's comments about Mr. Icke here, weren't you?

David Icke? The one with the reptilians? And you're asking "can you then cite something specific that doesn’t make sense about his theories"?

hrmmm.

You may well have a case there, however; one of those, at any rate.

All of them.

And at this point, if you don't give us some specifics as to where Icke has gone wrong in your next post, you are only proving my point further.

um...


?

I call burden of proof fallacy (click link here for explanation).

If you're going to cite David Icke as some kind of *expert* then the responsibility is yours to demonstrate where Mr. Icke has been demonstrated as being correct with his rather creative hypotheses (good luck there).

Hi Wabun
Are you sure? Why would NWO agents... monitor an unexplained mystery forum?
It doesn't make much sense to me. I think it all comes down to 'pure' faith verses hard evidence.
The recent insurgents in more and more people believing in NWO conspiracy theories, is probably due to a PCSR or 'psychological cultural shock reaction' to a new millennium.

Echelon 338tu7 77xtR00 'keep' covered= servant to Erech

You seriously lost me with all the cuts & quotes there Wabun, but i'll try & reply best i can.

If the Thunderbird Wheel is your doing, that may explain why the Native Americans have never heard of it then? Also you claim Icke, Wilson & Co have nothing to do with it yet their names are clearly in bold in the four directions (illustration)? Wouldn't it be a good idea (respectful even) to check with the NAs first before using their esoteric symbolism. Stories & legends of the Thunderbird are many & vary between nations from what i recall reading in the NA thread. (Sadly so much knowledge & information was destroyed & lost over time since the discovery of the New Old World)

The Medicine Wheel (The Wheel Of Life) however, basically put is what most nations saw as a powerful metaphor for the totality of life, all aspects of creation & consciousness.


Also, i'm no debunker I don't go out my way to destroy information...err skeptical from both ends maybe, especially around this time as i explained earlier. It pays not to take everything ya read hook, line & sinker, wouldn't ya agree...Then you have Zaus; UM's ^*The Konspiracy King telling ya Icke's a plant (?)...maaaan thats gotta be tell'n ya something right there. lol!!


Thats it thats all for me....later

They're not the only one, ducky.

--Jaylemurph

I totaly believe that there is a under ground society planning the NWO. I think what this guy here is saying is WAY out there though. Like boarder line insainity. No offense.

The primary issue comes down to your own personalized insecurities. If you spend enough time swallowing whole without refutation every single website out there that seeks to create conclusions without providing for causality, then your founded views are purely based upon belief structures rather than a logical deconstruction of the evidence put before you.


Actually to date the best you have been able to accumulate in any form of refutation to such a simple suggestion (that of which being boards, rope, and a well understood base in geometry and mathematics) is to point a finger and then enter into a name calling session with anyone whom so dares to disagree with you.

If ever you again wish to enter into a debate of intellect, then first you could start by reading into the nature of Occam's Razor and how it applies to your "theory" and the opposing ideas presented.


And herein lies the crux of your entire postings. In this specific post alone you therefore present your entire motivation...and therefore eliminate yourself from any furthered claims to intellectual debature.

So if all of this was strictly an exercise in "rattling the grass to scare the snakes", then your entire "essay" falls into ill-repute as nothing grander than a scheme of an Agitator...to which it's intellectual merits are thusly quashed and considered moot and rendered as bunk. Such a matter of disingenuous rabble is also thusly an insult to anyone who would then believe anything you have to say as a matter of course.

Through this admission you therefore present an impossible argument through means of disqualification...a paradox if you will. If anyone replies in disagreement to your primary "essay" then they are "disinformation/psy-ops agents"...and if they agree with your post in any regard then they simply fall into the trap of being insulted by a ruse that had no actual meaning whatsoever and was written as a fallacy only to agitate.

This almost qualifies as trolling...while elaborate it still falls within the definition. Unless of course you retract your "disinformation/psy-ops agents" allegations and qualification requirements...in which case we can then go back to the original points presented (such as boards, rope, and a well understood base in geometry and mathematics) and you can try desperately to make things much more complicated than they actually are.

If however that fails, then you can always go back to the accusatory game you started with, in regards to replying to my prior post(and other members). That type of refutation (the reduction of opposing presenters through a biased moral qualification test i.e. shaking the grass with a false story) is so much simpler than actually having to accept a simpler solution over a complicated one (a complicated solution that is as yet unproven and primed full of correlations).

When a person is found to be honestly mistaken, they either cease being mistaken or cease being honest.

And as demonstrated above...anyone and everyone who disagrees with your prior "essay" is now classified as a detractor and NWO agent.

Such Agit/Prop could not be bettered by any other...you outclass yourself yet again.

Considering how much I view Zaus' writings and postulations as nothing grander than a securely fitted form of paranoia lacking in any clear logical processes, I find it altogether revealing into your own lack of logic that you would then group myself directly into his own anti-Masonic writings, while at the least you too present yourself in the very same light in attempting a similar vilification of Masons.

Perhaps whilst you are vilifying the Masons, you can gather round the bookburning campfire boastfully singing the Horst-Wessel-Lied, all the while praising those bold enough to round up Masons and execute them in the streets. Such denunciation of Masons literally falls into such ill-repute and as such does a direct disservice to the immediate understanding and remembrance of even relatively recent history

We could only be so lucky as to have such fervent patriots to rally 'round the cause, such as yourself.

<--- Almost forgot to add this

Considering the nickname I chose, my foundings should be easily interpreted...I am a constitutionalist and a gun owner. I find value in the Second Amendment as an inherent individual right to stave off tyranny(though it is obviously not the only measure to effectively engage in such) that would come forth in the form of overt Government control and interference in all matters private. I am also a Libertarian and refuse any and all disruption of my inherent natural rights. I hold an immediate distaste for Communists/Fascists/Socialists/Oligarchists alike...they all bring me close to vomiting.

That is my game.

But as far as reading your tripe, I can find no causality within it's writ...and as such am free to make my own posts and back them up without being hounded or bullied by those without the sense or fortitude to do anything greater than begin a name calling session or blame game that seeks to establish only a sense of veiled elitism through the devout bashing of those who do not happen to fall haphazard head over heels into utter belief of said tripe.

Correlation is not Causation.

Occam's Razor: Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

Transliteration: Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity

Translation: All things being equal, the simplest explanation is oft correct.

The fact that you use excessively complicated methods to describe something that has already been long proven to be much simpler in practice and execution, is proof that you are unwilling to actually engage in the presentation of causality through experiential discovery. All you have done to date is hit upon a series of correlated concepts that in no way prove causality in any regard.

This in itself is why I chose to simplify my response in the debate to present the folly of your excessive ramblings. You have NOT proven causality...and as such are still indebted to do so...

Res Ipsa Loquitur Quod Erat Demonstratum

Supposition before conclusion...evidence before theory.

"At each of the mound sites (except for Edgington Mound and Enon Mound, which were fenced off) I removed my shoes and socks (in order to establish a direct connection with the Earth), stood at the top of the mound, and talked with the spirits - with special focus on my deceased grandparents, Harold and Dorothy Prange, who had made their presence known to me loud and clear through a series of symbolic synchronicities and well-timed animal appearances that happened constantly from the moment I left for the ICCRA conference. To talk to the spirits, I simply spoke aloud the thoughts in my head I wanted them to hear without ritual or self-consciousness; to hear the responses, I simply paid attention to the animal appearances and synchronicities that occurred, and decoded the symbolism of each occurrence with a language that became clearer with every completed communication circuit. The visits to each mound - which were ensured by the instinctual feeling that I should visit each mound site that Jeff had marked on my map -"



This is where he lost me

No offence intended, but i stopped reading there. I think your a bit weird.
Keep up the good work.

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