I think Nasa should give us a live link from Mars - a webcam.
That would be quite cool.
imagine watching the planet in real time - And maybe spotting something?
I think we as the taxpayers should have more rights over space exploration.
We should know about this stuff

I have to agree, I would love to have a live feed on every single lander/shuttle mission. Why they don't hmmmm

It would probably be a waste of power.

Exactly, and weight and bandwidth. Especially bandwidth.
The amount of data that the web cam would transmit would reduce drastically the meaningful work that a spacecraft on Mars could transmit.

NASA spend hundreds of millions of dollars on these missions for scientific knowledge not to amuse the public.

It would also be impossible to provide such a 24 hour link anyway. A spacecraft on the surface can only transmit when it is in sight of a ground station or when one of the orbiters is passing over head. Since the ground stations of NASA's Deep Space Network are also used to communicate with all the other vehicle NASA has in deep space (Cassini at Saturn, MESSENGER on it's way to Mercury, New Horizons on it's way to Pluto, Dawn on it's way to the asteroid belt... the list goes on and on), spacecraft record all their data and then transmit it in short burst at prearranged times.

Well that was simple enough, good one.

I respectfully disagree...

One of the things that I think Nasa is starting to catch on to is that it does need to amuse the public. Maybe not so much amuse, but entertain, or at least give a tangible return on investment to the average joe who has been paying their tax dollars to help fund such endevors for a long time.

I think that perhaps Nasa may have had a PR firm approach them; or perhaps they are starting to see the writing on the wall themselves and arranging for a much more public display of their accomplishments. I hope it continues. Overall they have done a very poor job of passing along what it is they do, and why they do it to their end customers; and after a while enthusiasm drops off and so do budgets.

Nasa does some incredible work, dont get be wrong, but for quite some time there seems to have been some "entitlement" issues when it comes to them; tons of money goes their way to fund what they do, but just like any business in a tough economy, they are going to need to justify it to those paying for it. In my opinion they havent really done that very well; a press release here and there dont cut it, the nasa website doesnt cut it, they really need to go out of their way to bring together what it is they do to be pertinant to the average non-geek; the majority of the folks funding their operation. 17 billion dollars isnt chump change...They need to get people excited again about what they do and why they do it, ot they will find that they are losing funding and more and more projects fall off the board and go away...

Maybe, but that is a sad indictment of the modern world. PR should not come at the cost of the primary mission which is, and must remain, science and exploration.

NASA does take images for public relations on unmanned missions, and there are major PR exercises on board the shuttle and ISS bit these do not impact on the mission I have already made just such a comment in another post in the why aren't any space photos in motion?.

Fitting a web cam would impact on the mission. It would down grade the mission's ability to do science. Besides which, as I have already pointed out, there are very good practical reasons why such a web cam would not work any way.

Having said all this the Mars Polar Lander was fitted with a microphone to record sounds on Mars, although this was built and paid for by the Planetary Society not by NASA. Sadly it recorded nothing as it was destroyed along with the craft when it crashed in 1999.

I find these comments that the public should be able to dictate what NASA does amusing. Why should they? Should the public have a right to interfere with the running of a particle physics laboratory or any other science facility? This is an attempt to dumb down science to the point of little more than a reality show, catering for the lowest common denominator, instead of letting NASA get on with what they do best, improving the sum of human knowledge.

Awesome point, FluffyB. I was actually with Waspie_Dwarf on this until you wrote that. So many people do not see the worth in what NASA is doing. That is partly their own ignorance and partly NASA's for not engaging the public enough. It's space, for heaven's sakes. This is the exciting part of science that little kids enjoy.

I have to agree that since they are spending the taxpayers' dollars they need to prove to the taxpayers why this money is well spent. It really shouldn't be that hard...though I think NASA already should receive more money, as I'm a space fanatic. I'm going to be interested in what they do regardless. It's "the average non-geek," as Fluffy put it, that need to be engaged.

EDIT: And just for the record, I am not for the web cam. I agree that it is impractical. What I am speaking of is a more aggressive push to bring the general public into NASA's mission. As it stands right now, I think the average impression by the lay person is that NASA is just a bunch of people holed up in computer rooms wasting money sending robots all over the place. I don't think they see the worth in it. Though, I am only speculating.

That is exactly right, but in reducing the research done to pander to those with a short attention span NASA is no longer providing money well spent. We live in an era where we see things such as TV, and newspapers all dumbed down. Let's not do the same to NASA.

I don't think the public necessarily should be taken into account when NASA is formulating its missions. They are the professionals, as you have pointed out, and should be trusted with directing the operation.

However, I don't think a public image geared for the public eye is a bad thing. If the public at large is more interested in NASA's mission then it is likely more money will come its way and they will be saved from the chopping block during budget cuts. I want NASA to be able to do more, but I just get the impression that many in country don't care.

Perhaps not a worthy comparison, but look at the military. Even in this economic time that whole operation is a massive cash cow. Why? Because the public has been sold on the whole democracy and spread of freedom thing.

EDIT: In response to your reply above, I strongly agree that in no way should NASA's mission be dumbed down for the public. But I think there is a tactful way to engage the public without detracting from or reducing the research. If it is one or the other, than yes, the research comes first. Absolutely. I'm just weary of what will happen to the program if the public is left out of view.

can you post the link, i cant find it

I don't see why?, they'd only be transmitting from area 51 again - oops what a giveaway!

My two cents on the Nasa freedom of information act. Well at least there`s a NASA ch on the tube now,24 hrs almost.some tape some live,but atleast its there Way to go Nasa! Then there`s the money Lots of it and I do feel enough intrest to show live ISS,MARs missions ect.Its better than watching T.V.sit-com`s and the like. I love a good laugh but we are nasa,The Tax payers of this country.we should be able to see what we are paying for.whats too hide? Nothing Right?IMO Get-It Done!

I agree with you 100%. I just think that it is sad that in this age gimmicks have to be considered to achieve this. There was a time when the populace had an attention span that exceeded that of a goldfish and the scientific achievements and thrill of exploration were enough to gain NASA support. Now everyone seems to want instant gratification and pretty pictures so they don't have to think too hard about what NASA is really trying to achieve.


Do you ever actually bother to read what other people have said DONTEATUS? Go back and read my posts and you will find that NASA can't get it done because a 24 hour live web cam link from Mars is not technically feasible. NASA may be good but they can't achieve the impossible, not even to keep you happy.

Besides which in the Manned Mission to Mars thread you are constantly banging on about NASA not having enough budget to do the job properly and now you want to force them to spend unnecessary money for your personal amusement that would actually reduce their ability to do the job properly.. Make your mind up what you actually want fro NASA.

Waspie that is such a pile of ($@P,you babble on about what they can and cant do! They can doit if they wanted to show the world! Yahoo has 86 pics already from there and the Nasa Ch is putting up pics too! Where is the proof that the World and AMERICA ! you got it AMERICA and the rest of teh partners of the Mars missions could not do it If the money was put to use? IMO! DONTEATUS

If this cold fusion pans out like the article here on the main page then there will be no need to worry about power needs. But even then will it be feasible to have live feed on Mars? I imagine that even with unlimited power we are still limited by our current technological progress, thus not being able to make a much better rover. The Mars machines would still have to be small and practicle. No?

Wow. That is pretty offensive.

Not everyone is a scientist or scientifically minded, but in the US every taxpayer is paying for Nasa. Every taxpayer here spends on average about 50 bucks a year, not a great deal of money I know, but 17 billion a year is a lot of money and wanting to know what we get for our money isnt asking too much.

I realize that for you Waspie space and science are a huge deal, and you have commited a good portion of your life to studying it. You follow every aspect of what is going on and understand it. That is wonderful, but not everyone is of like mind or like capability.

So now folks that are not of a science background wish to share in the excitement and see something new and learn something new, you go and compare people to goldfish and come across with one of the more condescening rants I have seen in a while and am really surprised. Its our tax dollar that funds the work. The last I checked the UK tax base wasnt paying a great deal into Nasa on a regular basis. So it kind of comes as a slap in the face to have someone who doesnt pay for it, couldnt write their congressman for answers to questions about it, or even vote nasa supporters into or out of office, to have such an attitude towards folks that are discussing the matter with what comes across as a wholier than thou attitude.

Well, maybe in your opinion my attention span is too short, I only had acouple years of college Astronomy. I sucked at calculus...I majored in Biology.

I recall the early work that was done on the behalf of Nasa to get the funding they did; presidents gave incredible speeches, Senators and congressmen assured constintuants of the needs to beat the Russians into space...there was a space race, it was top of mind for many people, and Nasa road that coat tail for a long time until the shuttles came along and then there was an increased interest on the publics behalf, and more funding went along with that...and the space station, to a lesser degree...

The bottom line is that Nasa needs to stay top of mind to stay well funded; it isnt guaranteed funds as much you you think it might or might not be; PR applies to Nasa too, and if they are smart they will continue to show what they are doing and why they are doing it to the average person to keep them involved and excited...if they dont mind lowering themselves down to the level of the goldfish, unwashed masses, and taxpayers...

Its a great thing we are seeing from Nasa and funny how quick the internet gets us pics of mars.We can be peacful.

Just a small technical note here:

Given the distance between Earth and Mars (which ranges in extremes from approximately 35,000,000 miles to approximately 250,000,000 miles) the prospect of a "live feed" from Mars - as the term is commonly implied to mean - is technically impossible.


Cz

Obviously, they don't want to give a live feed incase they film something they can't edit out in time.

It was not intended to be offensive Fluffy nor was it aimed at any individual, more at the way society seems to be going, It was a huge generalisation I must admit.

The point I am trying to make is that we live in a society where instant gratification is demanded. I know not everyone is a scientist but there seems to me to be a growing movement which says, "I can't understand it therefore IT must be stupid". We see it time and time again in this section of the site. People think that google is the same as research and don't want to learn. It seems to me that it was not always so.

In the past people respected NASA more. Outside of the USA it still earns you huge respect. NASA is synonymous with genius, bravery and a spirit of adventure. To many it reflects the best of America. It would be a real shame if you watered that down. Leave NASA to do what it does best and let it's achievements be its PR.

The question is, should we be dragging NASA down to the reality TV level or trying to encourage people to become educated in what NASA is doing.

I have issues with comments such as "NASA is paid for out of our tax dollars we should have more input". Why single out NASA. Your tax dollars pay for the USAF but you don't insist that they paint their planes pink because it would be more attractive to the public.

Maybe in just getting old and harking back to a golden era that didn't actually exist, but I don't think so.

DONTEATUS. It can not be done. Thise 86 pictures where not transmitted live. They where transmitted in exactly the way I described in my post. They will continue to transmit them this way because you simply can not reciev a signal 24/7 from the surface of Mars. Even the USA is governed by the Laws of Physics.

I agree. I think NASA needs to do something special again, before the next moon landings. However, if organic compounds are found on mars i think that'll be good enough.

I do understand that the microwave singnal thats 7 min to get here give or take a few mins due to the distance,And I do understand a good many things about Nasa. thats another subject.I just think IMO that we as ONE of the main sources of Income I.E The Tax payers of the USA should not be in fear to ask more of our Gov. Nasa is a Gov,run bussiness. Look at the web site NASA.GOV
And the Airforce spends boat loads of money too like Space defence and ect,ect,money seems to grow on trees here LoL. well as long as we get to be involved and have a say. This place is a great start see?

The golden era of implicit trust in the government lead to very bad things. We have seen that here in the US several times.

Maybe using the Air Force was a bad example, but each branch of the military ends up at conferences and trade shows, fairs, what have you showing what it is they do, they bring some of their equipment(unarmed of course) for people to see, but the allow taxpayers to touch see and experience what it is they are getting for their taxdollar. The military is visible with all of their goodies at a lot of public events showing off their technology and allowing people to see what they have, and allowing people to ask questions of the people there. There is a recruiting aspect there too, but they are present and out in the public and you never have to wonder where your tax dollars go.

Actually when it comes to my tax dollars I do get to say how they are spent, when things get out of line, representatives listen. The Airforce refueling aircraft contract is an example of that.

Maybe in the UK there is more of an implicit trust of what your government is doing with your tax dollars, that is not so here. Since I started typing this more than a years worth of my taxes has been eaten up in Iraq. I type pretty quickly. There is waste everywhere and it is time that everyone, Nasa included, explain what they do with their money and do a much better job of making themselves accountable to the people that pay their wages. The days of "you just dont worry your little mind about what we do with your tax dollar..." are coming to an end, that generation of trust is gone with Nixon. That is a good thing. I dont mind them using my money if it is going to a good cause, but I am not randomly throwing my money at projects willy-nilly because some guy with a pocket protector wants to spend a billion dollars to see what the surface of some random asteroid looks like up close.

I do think that since I pay for these projects I should have more say than folks that dont pay for them. Next time I am in your area I am sure you wont mind me rifling through your wallet for a thousand dollars...or more...dont worry it will go to good use...as far you know...but dont ask about it, you wouldnt understand, leave the thinking to the big boys, just keep going to work, and refilling that wallet of yours for the next time I am in need...After that you might want to know what was going on...want to see a return on the investment as it were...make sure that the money was spent wisely. It very well could be that I was working on the cure for cancer and it was well worth it, or it could be that I just always seemed to be returning from a "critical business trip" and have one hell of a tan and smelled of suntan lotion, but you would want to know either way.

The days of billions of dollars going to projects without being accountable are long gone. I recall a time when Nasa used to have supporters in the government who did the rallying and fundraising for them; that were the public face of Nasa. For the most part that isnt the case anymore, Bush made a half hearted speech a few years ago, but that was tainted by the fact that it was...well...bush...Nasa needs to step up and be their own PR company. It really is that simple. In looking at there ongoing projects most of them could close the doors tomorrow without any impact on the average person(outside of the increase of unemployed Nasa and subcontractor employees), some are critical, some are important, some would be nice, but not needed. When so much of what you do isnt critical, you need to justify what you do to the people that pay you-it is only fair.

When you have some average family who is in financial trouble, watched their 401K shrink, seen the equity in their home turn into dust and then go lopsided, spend twice what they normally do to fill up a tank of gas to get to a job that doesnt pay them anymore than it did eight years ago who sees a half a billion dollars spent on a craft to go to mars for some unknown reason, there is frustration there...what in the heck did they just pay for? why? What is the benefit? How is this going to help us?

What's the answer to this frustrated family in turmoil? A. dont worry your pretty little head with what we do with your money, just keep paying us. Just trust us. B. Go get yourself a degree and dedicate yourself to science and then maybe we'll will talk. Meanwhile just keep paying us. Just trust us. C. You wouldnt understand. Just keep paying us. Trust Us.

Every once in a while Nasa touches on the right idea, they had a television show with coverage of the landing; yes, television-the media of the goldfish. They picked out some reltively articulate charming people and did a good job of explaining what it is that the phoenix did and how it did it, how hard it was to do it, all the work that went into it, the difficulty in designs and simulations...It gives an idea of why a craft would cost so much. It also explains what the craft will do for us when it gets there. There show was enough to get people into the exitement of the landing..."7 minutes of terror" good PR, gets people involved, makes them feel like they are a part of it. The way it should be, even if we are just watching we should feel a part of it.Well, if they want money anyway. This elitist attitude just isnt going to work.

I have been thinking about this at work today and I have come to the conclusion that I am actually harking back to a period that never existed. After all the US networks had cancelled live broadcasts from Apollo 13 because of a lack of public interest and the public hardly rose to protest about the cancellation of Apollo. My comments about the attention span of gold fish where either unfair on the current generation or else should be applied to previous generations as well, and so I retract that part of what I said.

I also take on board what people are saying about PR, although I have never actually object to that per se. I still stand by my comments that PR should be secondary to the main goals of a programme and should never be allowed to reduce the usefulness of a mission. At the present time a video link, as suggested, would be harmful to a mission (even if it were actually possible) and so would not be a good idea.

I also accept a lot of what Fluffy is saying. I think the real issue is transparency, althugh I don't think think you in America always appreciate just how transparent NASA is. Go to their respective websites and try finding out, in detail what ESA is up to and compare that with NASA and you will see what I mean.

I have also come around to thinking that people are right in saying that NASA should put more effort into PR. Ironically though I don't think it should be for the big missions, manned or unmanned. These tend to be their own PR and I still think that should be allowed to continue that way.The outstanding success so far of Phoenix is all the PR it really needs. Where NASA really needs to lift public awareness is in the non-glamorous work it does. The really worthwhile stuff that most people don't even know it does.

NASA is at the forefront of research into this planet. It's work is allowing better understanding of the weather, the oceans, earthquakes, crop failures and so on. This is a huge part of NASA's job but most people don't realise it does it.

Most people also forget that NASA is more than a space agency.. it is the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. It is at the forefront of improving airliner safety (how many people know that NASA helped develop software that allows an airliner to be flown by using the engine throttles to tuen the craft if the rudder fails?) It is helping improve the fuel efficiency of aircraft, helping to reduce the noise impact and the environmental impact.

It is these things that NASA needs to draw attention too. People will not fully appreciate NASA until they full appreciate what NASA does.

I say it again and I say it as an outsider looking in with envy, let the NASA do what it does best. Don't interfere with it, it is a shinning jewel in the crown and is respect the world over.

Good reply Waspie! I think we can all slap NASA on the back today as never before. Apollo was mis-managed in its T.V coverage to the U.S. public. THis country was still healing from many bad things that had just happened. The war,the social enviorment ect people growing up I guess? Good post!

I could very well imagine a 'Big Brother 'scenario with one of Bigelow's space hotels...


http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/09/22/4632.aspx



Bigelow Aerospace

Artist's conception shows Genesis space module.


throw in a media race as whether the sponsors of Pepsi or Coca Cola will win the right to the drink of choice for the guests...

and you'll be able to fund a whole chain of space investments

Any guess to when that will really happen? I want a ticket and a Moon-Dew to drink! I wonder what would happen if you popped pop corn in Zero-G ? Waspie? Mid? specially inside that inflatible unit?

The NASA budget , especially concerning manned-missions, is a completely pointless, romantic and unproductive folly and waste of tax dollars Humans CANNOT LIVE in space, or anyplace other than on the Earth.

What NASA really is, is public-funding being used to support the fantasies and whistful daydreaming nonsense of a bunch of "Star-Trek" junkie-nerds who are scared to DEATH that the public will wake up out of their mind-numbed coma one day, cut off their funding, take away their government health-care and retirement plans, and they'll all have to go out and get REAL jobs behind a counter at a 7-11 PAYING taxes instead of LIVING off what you and I pay..........

Would you care to explain that to the current crew of the International Space Station. I think they will be highly surprised to learn that they are not alive.

So you then don't believe that the Gods and Angels of Ancient Lore and those of mentioned in sacred writings... were not from outer space..other Star Systems?

http://ldolphin.org/unruh/alien/ch3ph.html



There must be some subconscious belief it this for us to attempt the same thing...

After all we are just as good... maybe even better than some of them are we not???

crystal sage please do not hijack the thread. You hacve been told about off topic posting numerous times, a reminder of one of the terms and conditions which you agreed to when you joined this site:


If you want to write about gods, angles and ancient writings there are plenty of places to do so on this site. The Science section is not one of them. Thank you.

I was simply commenting on assertion that the idea of space travel is ridiculous..

That man/ governments/scientists definitely must believe that it can be done to expend so much on this venture... that it was not just a random idea..that man had been dreaming of doing this, built stories around this idea, for thousands of years..

Now that we have conquered the skies .. why not space?... to see if there is anything to these old stories...

Aren't NASA also looking for any signs of life.. or even ancient civilizations in their explorations of these other planets?

I'm looking forward to the idea of reality show based on the first settlers on Mars...

That the sponsorship of these telecasts ..of Man's first tentative steps towards this settlement would greatly help towards financing this end.. Corporations will fall over themselves to grab a bit of this action.. will offer their recources... broaden the think tank for achieving this.

My favorite lines from this thread:


&


Waspie, I too thought of the word "transparency" but then realized NASA is already pretty transparent (unless you are really, really into the conspiracy theories.) So I guess that's not what I'm looking for.

I think what I'm looking for is for them to be more apparent, and thus readily accessible, to the general public. As sad as it may be, this nation is focused on image. That's just the reality. And the military is seen on T.V., on the internet, and even comes to our schools. In comparison, NASA seems rather distant...the news coverage is minimal in the daily papers. Yes, NASA is transparent, but only if one reaches out on their own seeking the information.

Look, I wish everyone was so excited about NASA that they kept an eye on them to see what they are doing...but they don't. In light of that, it's up to NASA to position themselves back in the public eye. Just my thought.

As Waspie said...you might try asking someone like Peggy Whitson about that illogical statement, since she's done so for about a year of her life...



Something tells me you are merely here to post such drivel and then you run away. You've already been asked pointedly to explain yourself--but nothing has come of it.

This is more or less a repeat of your nonsensical diatribe in the Manned Mars mission thread...wherein you were asked:



You seem to be stuck on this waste of all that money. It seems rather apparent that you don't understand the miniscule nature of the NASA budget.

People spend 20 times their share of the NASA budget everyday on a cup of coffee. You buy a gallon of gasoline, and you're paying the Federal Government over three times your daily share of the NASA budget...for nothing!

You speak of NASA as a waste of money?

Maybe you'll want to try to answer the aformentioned questions...

Somehow I rather doubt it.

Just for a few in here.IMO I spent a few hours last nite on a NASA web siteMars missions current,looking at over four hundred pics and clips of the now three active landers,rovers on there way to makeing history.Wow! what a job is being done up there.dont ever complain about nasa and the work of the many other support companies involved in your future.Its all getting the job done with pennys from us! NO! COMPLAINING! just look at the pics! DONTEATUS pissedoff