I been reading up on the Jersey Devil and the Mothman. It seems that these two creatures share some common charaterists such as wings, red eyes, strange noises and so on. Does any thing they are just the one and the same?

Thats a possibility... never really thought about it before.

Possibly, there are one or two differences though, such as the Mothman being all fuzzy, and owl like, only with large bat wings, and the Jersey Devil being sleek coated, and giraffe and hoofed.

But as the Mothman was only seen at night, it may very well be the same creature, the shaggy fur could be attributed to it being colder when seen. That and the darkness would have made it more dificult to see it properly.

They are near each other.But when asked to draw a description, you get two different creatures. Another thing they do have in common is that neither has been killed and are still being spotted (the Jersey Devil was supposedly first sighted around the late 17-1800's) Here are two witness's drawings:
Mothman

and the JD

I think the eyewitness descriptions of the two creatures are too different for them to be the same. The indvidual descriptions are pretty consistant for the Jersey Devil and for the Mothman so its prretty safe to say that they are different creatures.

Big difference, JD as a long neck and a big head, mothman ad neither a head nor neck.

yeah, look at the picture an eye witness drew of JD. pretty goofy. of course, thats assuming JD exists, mothman exists, and the person that drew this really saw it.

does the Jersey Devil actually wear horseshoes?

Ok lets break down to these base on legend and eye witness accounts

Similarities

Jersey Devil
Red eyes
Bat wings
Humanoid shape
Black in colour
Sighted within the USA
Seen at night
Strange noises are heard when present
The creature is believe when sighted to bring misfortune

Mothman
Red eyes
Bat wings
Humanoid shape
Black in color
Sighted within the USA
Seen at night
Strange noises are heard when present
The creature is believe to warn of misforturne


Differences

Jersey Devil
Long neck
Has a tail
hornes
First sighting staring 250 years ago

mothman
No neck in some cases no head
No tail to be reported
Known sighting were in 1960s
In some accounts have antennas


Now to just say this, the Jersey Devil has a long neck and head but the Mothman has none. Now the Devil, like any animal with a long neck such as a horse or camel, can lift it up or down. Now here is a picture I found that could illustrated my point



now if the devil was seen at night with his head and neck lowered from a front veiw, the creature would appear as though it has none and the arch between the shoulder blades would be more visible. At night the horns can appear as anything.

Also as another note, eye witness reports will always vary but have common points. As an example, there is a bank robbery committed by a male with a gun and 5 witnesses. After questioned by police, each gives a description of the events saying the suspect was a male with a weapon. Now as the physical descriptions, there will be 5 different accounts as to the weight, height, eye colour and style of clothing.

One last thing, the Jersey Devil and the Mothman are said to have wings which means they can be anywhere. And the Jersey Devil has been seen in more than one state.

OMGS!!!

The Jersy Devil and the Mothman is the JABBERWOKY!!


It's all perfectly clear. That means only one thing...

*digs out her vorpral blade* SNICKERSNACK!!

Actually it is JABBERWOCKY and vorpal blade. And for those wondering what we are taking about it is

JABBERWOCKY
Lewis Carroll
(from Through the Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There, 1872)

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.


"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"


He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.


And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!


One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.


"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.

i absolutly love the jabberwocky ......

Again variations of eye witness reports of the creature. There are some accounts in New Jersey about people saying a large dark birth flying at them off a tree.

Mothy and J.D. are not the same being. Completely different time periods and completely different forms.

As for confusing what witnesses have seen at night or twilight, I suggest someone find out how accurate and numerous the sightings are of Jersey D, because the more recently seen Mothman has been seen by nearly 100 seperate citizens and visitors of Point Pleasent. Of all those sightings, all stay very close to mothman essentialls; Red eyes, no head, very tall, and hobbling around like a bird.

I don't know much about JD-man. He looks pretty gumpy though.

if you mean by 'gumpy' goofy, yes, but the artist of that one picture seemed to have gone out of his way to makeit look as if the JD was truly peiced together from different animals, instead of just having features that only resembled other animals.

Phenomenal Week
January 16th - 23rd, 1909
This was a week in New Jersey history when the Jersey Devil was sighted daily throughout the state... people gave detailed descriptions of sightings, footprints were found constantly, and the entire state of New Jersey was in a panic. The sightings weren't confined to New Jersey, either - New York and Pennsylvania got a view of the Leeds Devil as well. Here are several tales from the week of terror.

Sat. 1/16 - Sun. 1/17 Woodbury, NJ A man was leaving a hotel when he "heard a hissing and something white flew across the street. I saw two spots of phosphorus - the eyes of the beast. There was a white cloud, like escaping steam from an engine. It moved as fast as an auto."

Bristol, PA A man named John McOwen was awakened at 2am by the screams of his baby. He began hearing odd noises out in the backyard. The noises "sounded like the scratching of a phonograph before the music begins and yet it also had something of a whistle to it. You know how the factory whistle sounds? Well, it was something like that."

A Police Officer named James Sackville suddenly heard the neighborhood dogs begin to bark and growl uncontrollably. Officer Sackville developed a strange feeling, and instinctively turned around - and there, standing in the shadows, was the Jersey Devil. He said the creature had wings and hopped around, and had the features of some peculiar animal he had never seen before... the voice of the creature was a horrible scream. Sackville began to run towards the creature, who turned and ran in retreat, screaming. Sackville began firing his pistol, and the creature hovered above the ground and then flew off into the dark night sky.

Bristol's postmaster, E. W. Minster, also had an encounter with the beast. He described it as follows: "I awoke about two o'clock in the morning... and finding myself unable to sleep, I arose and wet my head with cold water as a cure for insomnia. As I got up I heard an eerie, almost supernatural sound from the direction of the river... I looked out upon the Delaware and saw flying diagonally across what appeared to be a large crane, but which was emitting a glow like a fire-fly. Its head resembled that of a ram, with curled horns, and its long thick neck was thrust forward in flight. It had long thin wings and short legs, the front legs shorter than the hind. Again, it uttered its mournful and awful call - a combination of a squawk and a whistle, the beginning very high and piercing and ending very low and hoarse..." Bristol residents awoke to find their yards covered with abnormal hoof-prints.

Burlington, NJ Joseph Lowden and his family heard "noise, as of some heavy body trampling in the snow in the yard." The creature began circling the house and made an attempt to open the back door, then left. Footprints were seen that night.

White City, NJ Two muskrat trappers encountered strange footprints.

Gloucester City, NJ James Fleson found eerie footprints in eight different yards, with a trail leading into a local junkyard. Mrs. Shindle found hoofprints in her yard and said "It's a two legged cow with wings."

Mon. 1/18 Burlington, NJ The Lowden family awoke to find tracks from whatever had circled their house the night before. The snow had been packed down around the garbage can, with its contents half eaten and strewn across the ground. Burlington began to enter a state of panic, locking doors and windows, refusing to leave their homes, and staying in shock over night. Practically every backyard in Burlington had been scarred with footprints. The prints were unbelievable- skipping from rooftops to rooftops, randomly vanishing, leading into completely unaccessible areas... the size of the prints varied in each trail as well. Search posses formed, rewards were offered.

Columbus, Hedding, Kinkora, Rancocas Footprints were reported. Dogs refused to follow the trails.

Tues. 1/19 Gloucester City, NJ Mr. and Mrs. Nelson Evans were visited by the Jersey Devil at approximately 2:30 am. This is one of the most vivid and well described sightings ever. Mr. Evans was awakened by stranged noises. The couple stared out their bedroom window to watch the Jersey Devil standing on the roof of their shed for a full ten minutes. Mr. Evans gave the following description: "It was about three feet and a half high, with a head like a collie dog and a face like a horse. It had a long neck, wings about two feet long, and its back legs were like those of a crane, and it had horse's hooves. it walked on its back legs and held up two short front legs with paws on them. It didn't use the front legs at all while we were watching. My wife and I were scared, I tell you, but I managed to open the window and say, 'Shoo!' and it turned around, barked at me, and flew away."

Two professional muskrat hunters trailed the Jersey Devil for several miles. The tracks seemed to jump five foot fences and squeeze under eight-inch spaces. One of the men claimed he would never leave his house without bringing his gun.

Camden, NJ A young girl fainted when she discovered strange tracks in the snow. The tracks appeared to be deformed, with one foot larger than the other.

A sighting was reported, saying the creature looked "something like a possum, the size of a dog, with a shrill bark, flapping its wings and taking off into the air."

Swedesboro, NJ Another sighting, this time claiming that the creature had antlers or horns of some type.

Glassboro, NJ Footprints reports came in. The prints had three toes and appeared slightly dog-like.

Wed. 1/20 Burlington, NJ A policeman saw the creature, whose "eyes were like blazing coals." The policeman was sure it was a "Jabberwock."

Pemberton, NJ Reverend John Pursell saw the creature, stating he had "never seen anything like it before."

Haddonfield & Collingswood, NJ Search parties were created to locate the creature. They discovered strange tracks which always seemed to disappear into thin air. The creature was seen in Collingswood, heading north towards Moorestown.

Moorestown, NJ John Smith saw the creature, and chased it until it disappeared into a pit nearby. George Snyder also saw the creature, and the two described it as follows: "It was three feet high... long black hair over its entire body, arms and hands like a monkey, face like a dog, split hooves, and a tail a foot long."

Springside, NJ A trolley car operator saw a strange shape cross the tracks and then disappear into the shadows. He said "It looked like a winged kangaroo with a long neck."

Riverside, NJ Ubiquitous tracks were made near chicken coops, buildings, and other structures. Joseph Mans found his puppy dead, surrounded by the strange tracks. The tracks appeared to be made by "small horse shoes" and were "everywhere, including the rooftop." Plaster casts were made from these prints.

Thurs. 1/21 Camden, NJ A strange noise was heard at 1am at the Black Hawk Social Club. One of the members heard the noise at the back window, and turned to find the beast staring in through the glass. The club members were immediately gripped with panic. The man attempted to scare the creature, which flew off screaming.

Haddon Heights, NJ A trolley passenger sighted the creature through a window at 2 am. The passengers all stared in horror as they watched the Jersey Devil flying near them. When the trolley car stopped, the creature circled above, screaming hissing noises before flying away. The conductor of the trolley, Lewis Boeger, gave this report: "In general appearance it resembled a kangaroo... It has a long neck and from what glimpse I got of its head its features are hideous. It has wings of a fairly good size and of course in the darkness looked black. Its legs are long and somewhat slender and were held in just such a position as a swan's when it is flying. We all tried to get a look at its feet to see what shape they were but the darkness was too great. It looked to be about four feet high."

Trenton, NJ William Cromley was returning to his home when his horse began to panic. When Cromley exited his buggy, he saw "a sight that froze the blood in his veins and caused his hair to stand upright." There before him stood a creature described as "a beast of fur and feathers, about the size of an average dog, with the face of a German Shepherd, from which glowered large, sparkling eyes." The creature spread its wings and flew away.

A Trenton councilman was awakened by the sounds of someone attempting to break into his home. He ran to his windows and heard the sound of wings flapping. When he peered out his window, he saw hoofprints on his roof. These prints were found all over the town.

Trenton & New Brunswick, NJ Trolleys in both cities now maintained armed guards in case of a Jersey Devil attack.

Pitman, NJ Many poultry farms were missing large amounts of chickens.

Bridgeton & Millville, NJ Poultrymen heard screeching cries and awoke to find some of their chickens were dead - without a single mark on them. The farmers all agreed that it was the work of the Jersey Devil.

Roebling, NJ Many more tracks were found covering the yard, looking as though an entire herd of creatures had come stampeding through the area overnight.

Burlington, NJ A woman heard a noise in the alley near her house at 6 am. Upon investigating, she found a creature with bird-like features and a horse's head. The creature appeared as if it were about to leap. The woman immediately shut the window, and collapsed in fear. She said "for some minutes I was so frightened I was unable to scream. My husband and son had already gone to work, and I was finally able to waken my youngest son, who was asleep upstairs." Although no one saw the creature in the alley again, there were small hoofprints covering the ground. Rumor had it that the mayor of Burlington ordered the police to shoot the creature upon sight.

Leiperville, PA A man walking along a highway spotted the creature early in the morning, and claimed that it ran faster than the cars were driving. He described it as having "skin like an alligator, stood on its hind feet and was about six feet tall."

Mount Holly, NJ William Cronk saw the creature flying across his yard, saying it looked like a crane. Job Shinn said it had "a horse-like head, long hind legs with claws, and big wings." He said it walked like a man and left tracks everywhere.

Clayton, NJ R. L. Campbell falsely claimed that the creature was dead, after a man told him he had watched the creature walk towards an electric railway. The man said that the creature's tail had hit the rail line, and suddenly there was a power surge and an explosion that melted tracks for twenty feet in both directions. They believed this to be the end of the creature, since no remains were found.

Atlantic City, NJ A telegraph lineman gave another account of the Jersey Devil being injured. His report was this: "In an isolated spot in the Jersey Pines, about five miles from Pleasantville, at a place known as Beaver Pond, one of the linemen, Howard Campbell, was detailed on a piece of work a little distance from the rest of the men on duty. After walking a little way into the woods, his attention was attracted by something coming down the path toward him. He became so frightened by the unusual appearance of the thing that he straightway made for the nearest telegraph pole. Letting out several yells for help and losing his wits entirely by the time he reached the top of the pole, Campbell threw himself out on the mass of wires between the two poles and was lying there helpless by the time the rest of the gang, including myself, had arrived. Seeing the 'Terror' on the pole, I raised my gun and fired. One shot broke a wing and it fell to the ground, uttering hideous screams; but before anyone could collect his wits the thing was up and off with long strides and a sort of hop, dragging one wing, and then disappearing into the pine thicket. We got ropes and other tackle and helped Campbell down from his precarious position. As nearly as I can describe the terror, it had the head of a horse, the wings of a bat and a tail like a rat's, only longer."

Philadelphia, PA Mrs. J. E. White was out in her backyard hanging laundry at approximately 4pm in the afternoon when she noticed something sitting in a corner of her yard. Upon approaching the creature, it arose to six feet tall, with a body covered in scaly skin. White claimed the creature spurted flames from its mouth. White began screaming and collapsed. Her husband ran out just in time to catch a glimpse of the strange, frightening beast. Mr. White grabbed a support pole from the clothesline and swung it at the creature, until the creature finally escaped and flew off. Right after that incident, a driver reported almost hitting the creature as it scrambled across the road. Another man, William Becker, claimed to have thrown stones at the Jersey Devil. Another man said he watched it sitting along the roadside.

Westville, NJ Two women at a meeting glanced out the window to see the strange thing sitting on the front lawn in the snow. The women all cancelled their meetings, and called a few men to form a search party to find and destroy it.

West Collingswood, NJ Two men had been walking down a road when they saw what they believed at first to be an ostrich sitting on top of a friend's house. The two men called the fire department, who then shot the hose at the Jersey Devil. The water knocked it off the house at first, and it seemed as though it was fleeing, but surprisingly the creature turned and began to charge its tormentors. The crowd began throwing anything they could at it in an attempt to stop it, but nothing seemed to work - the creature barrelled headfirst towards them. Finally, before the creature made any contact with the scared onlookers, he spread his wings and soared over their heads into the dark night sky.

Camden, NJ A woman, Mrs. Mary Sorbinski, became the first human to witness a Jersey Devil attack on another living creature. She heard a commotion in her backyard around 7pm, and upon remembering that her dog had been out there, immediately went to see the cause of the noise. She was stricken with shock and terror as she saw her dog in the "vice-like grip" of a "horrible monster!" Mrs. Sorbinski then began to smack at the creature with a broomstick, and it dropped her dog and began screaming its awful high pitched cries. The creature flew right at Mrs. Sorbinski, but at the last second changed direction and flew away. After it had gone, Mrs. Sorbinski carried her injured dog into the house to find that a chunk of its flesh had been ripped out. She became overwhelmed with fear and panic. Within an hour, the house was filled with neighbors, police officers, and others who were curious as to the night's incident. While the crowd had gathered, once more the Jersey Devil made its presence known at the Sorbinski residence by emitting its awful screeches. The police officers on scene attempted to fire at the creature, but to no avail. It eventually flew away. This entire incident caused a state-wide outbreak of panic and fear.

Fri. 1/22 Camden, NJ The creature woke the residents of a house by his hoof steps on their rooftop at 2am.

Policeman Louis Strehr observed an eerie creature drinking water from a horse trough at approximately 4am. He said the creature had "the head and body of a kangaroo, antlers like a deer, and bat wings."

Mount Ephraim & Gloucester, NJ The areas were in sheer panic. Schools were closed, offices shut down, and employees called out sick for the day, afraid to step outside and be exposed to the works of the Jersey Devil.

Chester, PA Two girls heard a noise coming from a stopped train. They watched as the Jersey Devil flew out of an open boxcar and took off into the sky.

Morrisville, PA A report was given that the Jersey Devil had been captured in a man's barn. Upon opening the doors to the barn, they were disappointed to find that the creature had once again vanished.

Trenton & Woodbury, NJ The Jersey Devil was seen throughout these areas for brief periods of time.

Salem, NJ Jacob Henderson saw a beast with "wings and a tail" walking through an area of town. Henderson's bulldog growled and drove the beast into the woods.

taken at http://home.adelphia.net/~leuter/1909.html


Report of the mothman

Late in the evening of November 15, two young married couples had a very strange encounter as they drove past an abandoned TNT plant near Point Pleasant, West Virginia. The couples spotted two large eyes that were attached to something that was "shaped like a man, but bigger, maybe six or seven feet tall. And it had big wings folded against its back". When the creature moved toward the plant door, the couples panicked and sped away. Moments later, they saw the same creature on a hillside near the road. It spread its wings and rose into the air, following with their car, which by now was traveling at over 100 miles per hour. "That bird kept right up with us," said one of the group. They told Deputy Sheriff Millard Halstead that it followed them down Highway 62 and right to the Point Pleasant city limits. And they would not be the only ones to report the creature that night. Another group of four witnesses claimed to see the “bird” three different times!

Another sighting had more bizarre results. At about 10:30 on that same evening, Newell Partridge, a local building contractor who lived in Salem (about 90 miles from Point Pleasant), was watching television when the screen suddenly went dark. He stated that a weird pattern filled the screen and then he heard a loud, whining sounds from outside that raised in pitch and then ceased. “It sounded like a generator winding up” he later stated. Partridge’s dog, Bandit, began to howl out on the front porch and Newell went out to see what was going on.



When he walked outside, he saw Bandit facing the hay barn, about 150 yards from the house. Puzzled, Partridge turned a flashlight in that direction and spotted two red circles that looked like eyes or “bicycle reflectors”. They moving red orbs were certainly not animal’s eyes, he believed, and the sight of them frightened him. Bandit, an experienced hunting dog and protective of his territory, shot off across the yard in pursuit of the glowing eyes. Partridge called for him to stop, but the animal paid no attention. His owner turned and went back into the house for his gun, but then was too scared to go back outside again. He slept that night with his gun propped up next to the bed. The next morning, he realized that Bandit had disappeared. The dog had still not shown up two days later when Partridge read in the newspaper about the sightings in Point Pleasant that night.

One statement that he read in the newspaper chilled him to the bone. Roger Scarberry, one member of the group who spotted the strange “bird” at the TNT plant, said that as they entered the city limits of Point Pleasant, they saw the body of a large dog lying on the side of the road. A few minutes later, on the way back out of town, the dog was gone. They even stopped to look for the body, knowing they had passed it just a few minutes before. Newell Partridge immediately thought of Bandit, who was never seen again.

taken from http://www.prairieghosts.com/moth.html

Mm, yes many have already known of those witness accounts...etc and would have used them as a comparison. But think about it Mothman is a dark blue/black colour and god knows what colour JD is but in one of those accounts he said what he saw was moslty white?, Also MM, isn't said to be skinny but rather buft. JD is said to be relatively skinny.

Moving on, nearly all of those accounts mention a recognisable head, similar to either the following, Ram, Goat, Horse and cow.

Every account of MM, that i've read reads that witnesses see only eyes embeded into its shoulder area.

the one thing every body knows about the mothman but no one has thought of is...... that the JD doesnt bring doom (or warn of doom, whatever)! why did we not think of that earlier?

Gatekeeper, thank you for that short novel on the evidence in support of the sightings. After reading it, I recall hearing the story of the seemingly impossible hoof-prints that criss-crossed new england, but didn't make the connection to the Jersey Devil.

As for the predictions/prophecies, John Keel who was the author of the big Mothman book really didn't show a direct connection between the Mothman and predicting tragedies. The so called "Mothman prophecies" came from vivid dreams and unexplainable phone calls experienced by witnesses of Mothy.

As for the artist's rendering of the Jersey Devil,..That thing still looks freakishly gumpy, but I'm sure I'd still be scared out of my mind if I ever saw it glaring out from a darkened woodland in the dead of night!

In New Jersey, some believe that seeing the Devil spells out doom. There are even a few accounts that the creature was seen at the beginning of all major wars, including the Revolutionary War, Civil War and even the Gulf Crisis in the 1990's. But again just trying to establish the possibility it can be the same creature. Both legends describe a winged humanoid being witch red eyes sighted in the Eastern USA. But when dealing with the supernatural anything is possible.

One interesting thin is that they do both seem to always show up before disasters or wars, which could suggest a connection between the two. Personally I have never seen a creature that I did not recognise or be able to otherwise explain by looking at a zoology book. I have neither ever seen any evidence that wasn't from nearly at least 60 years ago to prove that most mystery creatures I have heard of exist. I'll admit though I'll bet there are quite a few creatures out there we just don't really know exist. Similiar to the giant Octopus I guess. I suppose what I am trying to say is, we'll never know unitll someone comes up with an intact body.

Just to add to this JD discussion. This is a wonderful website on some supposed JD murders. They were filmed in a movie called "The last broadcast" (I think there was a thread about this movie that I started) I will warn you. They're not very pretty.
Link to Crime Scene Photos
Link to Last Broadcast Website

Seen the movie and not to spoil the plot for anyone the murders had nothing to do with the Jersey Devil. The Jersey Devil is not related at all, it merely mentions the creature. But the movie has an interesting twist.

Well have you ever heard of a Vortex, i think there are a few in jersy,

vortex? are you suggesting that the JD is a creature from another tim/place/dimension? not that thats out of the question, just i cant tell what your trying to say.

oh, you mean your suggesting he travels thru vortexs to escape humans?

Heard about the vortexes throughout the States but whether or not it's related or the devil uses it I don't know. The creatures has wings and can be any where flying.

I don't think that they're the same thing.

Here's my cartoon Jersy devil:

JD

The vortex idea is interesting but why need it when the devil has wings yet again the full abilities of the creature are yet not know. And as to why we cannot find it so close to home is that it doesn’t want to be found. Hey there is alot forest out there and a majority of the sightings are at night.

hmmmm....

where else would creatures such as the owl, the mothman and the jersey devil go?

vortexs.

They must be intelligent. You dont hear about them running rampant killing people.

Maybe the JD is some kind of entity that looks different to everyone. OR there are more than one. Maybe they are demons or a certain kind of demon able to go from there to here, wherever there is.

and i always thought the mothman could assume different shapes.

I was reading a failry old book (Its just older then me) and found referance of Mothman (Or a relative of his) In the uk, it ran towards somepeople (A courting couple, eh turned on their car and shot off). They said it looked like a man with no head but huge flaps between body and end of arms.

There isn't much to this story but I'll see what I can dig up.

No it wasnt the owlman, the descriptions of both are different.

the Mothman is probley a super hero



its a plane its a retart no its its mothman