Is Benjamin Fulford correct regards HAARP – earthquakes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VX0JvpW5q0

Is this guy claiming that we performed a large scale attack on China?? I dont know, seems alittle far fetched to me.

If the HAARP technology can do exactly what the research says it can do,...and the United States government(of all people) has they're hands on it, I wouldn't doubt for one minute that they would use it on they're political enemies to achieve they're geopolitical agendas. Well, they do have they're hands on the technology, but it's just something to think about, this technology is in the same hands of a government who's continually lied to the American public and continues to do so but not only that in the hands on men who promote the mindset of "we goto war to make peace". If that even makes the slightest bit of sense. You think of the possibilities.......

What can you do when no one is policing the police?

Turn Iran into glass?
Karlis

My only problem with this Idea is, wouldnt China be aware if we did have such means? If we have any of this information correct, dont you think China would know even more? Certainly they would have responded to such a thing, no?

OK. If thats the case. Why didn't the US use our Mega Death ray?

Cause thats what they would expect us to do, lol

No, he is not.
HAARP...a topic which has popped up on several threads in the recent past, has nothing to do with climate, or earthquakes, or anything mysterious. It is a non-classified program of Ionosperic research.


What the heck is going on???

Very good question....it must be a sinister sounding project acronym for some...however, it blatantly shows the lack of research skills with the proponents of this, as it is, as you correctly mention, a non-classified program. A simple Google search will tell all one ever wanted to know about this program (and then some). How this can ever be associated with climate control, earth quakes or anything else in that category is an extrapolation that is beyond me.

It is, to put it bluntly, mind-boggling....

Cheers,
Badeskov

And what exactly is that?! Lets look at the research statement, shall we (here):




What exactly does it say what the research can do?! They are trying to get a better understanding of ionosphere physics, that's all. It specifically mentions that future applications are enhanced communications and surveillance (in which the ionospehere is important for long distance communications, which is well known for people in the RF/Radar field). There is nothing new or ground breaking, or remotely sinister there.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Isn't it?

Good God!

It's just bizzarre how many time HAARP has appeared here in the past couple days--with all of this nonsense about earthquakes and weather changing attached to it.


The latest CT fad, perhaps???

Totally and utterly ludicrous.



Perhaps. I guess there are limits to how many times one can beat a dead horse (9/11, moon hoax, etc), although the perseverances of some is astounding (would be rather admirable, if put to use in some sensible manner)...

Cheers,
Badeskov

If HAARP was the sinister organisation the conspiracists claim, why on earth would they stage an annual open day?
http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/faq.html

More tripe of the highest order. I'm beginning to think that 'Youtube' is the worst invention ever.

Be as it may, what are your thoughts about Benjamin Fulford's claims -- on this video-clip -- that he specifically predicted, that the earthquake would occur? ... AND would be caused to occur?

Mind you, I am not convinced either way -- I am simpy questioning.
Karlis

It has to be HAARP because...? Earthquakes what..don't occur naturally? While we may not know what HAARP is, if anything, I highly doubt there is a need to "make" an earthquake. (To me HAARP looks like a giant food dehydrator hehe)

I concur with itsnotoutthere, it is tripe of the highest order. he claims that he predicted it - how do we know that is true?! And one does not cause an earthquake, the amount of energy to initiate an earth quake is simply just beyond any comprehension. We simply don't have the means to do that.

Cheers,
Badeskov

I just took the time to watch the full video and it is actually tripe of the highest order to the nth degree (n being very, very large). It is so absurd that it isn't even funny. He starts out by claiming that the HAARP antenna array delivers 1 Billion watts (1GW), which is plain out ridiculous. It is delivering ~3.6 Million watts or about 275 times less. If it was a 1GW array, the antennas would somewhat bigger to be able to conduct that. A US nuclear reactor gives just below 1GW electrical power [ref] and with loss in the grid, etc, two would probably be required. So the HAARP research facility has 2 nuclear reactors at their full disposal, and of course in the vicinity, as otherwise they'd have cables coming in from all corners with the required power. Amazing!

Next up is the energy dispersal. Anybody with just a remote knowledge of antennas can see that the antenna array is not a directional antenna, i.e. it's main radiation lobe is very broad and thus illumnates a large area (which is actually the purpose of the real research they do and not this youtube cr*p). That means that energy reflected will cover a huge area (we are talking continents and more likely a good part of the globe) and would therefore affect everything in that area. Thus it would be plain out impossible to single out a city in Japan, let alone Japan itself.

And with that comes the energy density problem. Assuming that it really was a 1GW antenna array and say they really performed a miracle and the area affect is circular with a diameter of 1000km (radius 500km), the total area affected will be ~785,000km^2. That would give us a power density of 1kW/km^2, which is next to nothing in this context (your average tv broadcast antenna will give much more than that in the vicinity of the antenna).

Finally, the signals would have to penetrate the ground and be absorbed. But to deliver the energy efficiently, it would have to be delivered at the right spot. But the ground will absorp the radio waves in a distributed manner, i.e. it eat it all up slowly as the radio waves penetrates deeper and deeper into the ground. The Niigata earth quake occurred at a depth of 17km, thus that is where the energy would have to be deposited. Delivering the energy required to a depth of 17km by means of radio waves is so far out, it is way beyond the realm of absurdity. I am sorry, but this guy has no clue whatsoever about what he is talking about. I don't know how I can be much more clear about this, but from his video I would say he flunked 1st grade and kept flunking it. Or he video taped this from his room in the mental institution currently taking care of him.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for typo.

Watch this to make sense of real politics. How to make a qake... http://youtube.com/watch?v=0VX0JvpW5q0



http://youtube.com/watch?v=KKMTSDzU1Z4 FROM THIS LISTING http://youtube.com/results?search_query=ch...mp;search_type=

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ZdRFWXAK_g&feature=related

The first video, the speaker gives out a lot of facts, but specultes with those facts to take us down his own path of understanding. Typical with any researcher, but is heworking for our liberation or our entrapment? Is he an agent selling two stories at once, a factual reality, and a political spin. he has become extrememly popular recently with old regurgitated news. he is either a government plant/exposer, or I am accusing a totally honest man of missinforation.

DID HAARP CREATE KATRINA DISASTER?

No!

Cheers,
Badeskov

And can we please stop this HAARP BS?! It is absolutely ludicrous...

Cheers,
Badeskov

Interesting concept. However, your CAPS suggest fear mongering.

That's a NO

you might as well ask if the Sun caused the Katrina disaster, since the effect HAARP has on the ionosphere is minuscule in comparison... IMO

It was the Weather man ! blame it on the Weather man ! he could of made it sunny

but seriousley, people actually beleive this stuff ? come on, just say its a joke its not too late to get a few stifled laughs...

Setting aside the mights and maybes about whether HAARP did or didn't...could or couldn't 'create'
the recent earthquake/s in China.....

I've had an odd feeling about the Chinese earthquake right from when it happened.

Although the TV coverage picked up after a couple of days...it didn't make front page of
any of the main newspapers in England/Britain.

And no-one seems to be mentioning the Olympics....I know that tens of thousands of people
being killed and millions being made homeless and injured....is more important than a sporting
event.

But....the Olympics is THE international sporting event and China hosting the Olympics is a pretty
big deal....for China becoming a more accepted part of the International Community. A show-case for the
Chinese nation...etc.

You know....I wouldn't be surprised if 'something' else happened that meant that the Olympics were
cancelled.........

The earthquake machine was invented by Nikola Tesla about 100 years ago. He also made the first thunder flashes for the newly invented movie industry. All his patents have been bought by the US and have disappeared. Weather control is not allowed by any private citizen, only the US government has the right, they made a law to that effect. HAARP is used to bother nations that are not in line with US politics and even to steer hurricanes the way they want. Katarina was to clean up New Orleans, the most unusual snow storms at exactly Chinese New Year and the tsunami are all the work of HAARP. They can also blanket all electronic communications over any area they want as was demonstrated when Israel bombed Syria's building assumed to be a nuke store. China has a few tricks up its sleeve as well, like the downing of the US satellite that came down in Peru. That satellite was to be the command centre for a military attack on Iran. Brazil is a bit nasty and was punished some weeks ago with a long calm over Sao Paulo so that the smog and smoke made living there impossible for a few days. The rats in the Pentagon are getting cornered now that Iraq is a disaster and Iran has the unstoppable Russian missiles (Sunburn, Moskit, Yakhont) that can blow all the aircraft carriers out of the Persian Gulf in one blow. The only thing I am not yet sure of is if the Russian and Chinese tech boys can stop the high altitude bombers which are the US last resort in a military attack on Iran. The Russian RPGs given to Hizballah stopped the worlds best strongest Israeli Merkava tanks easily, but nothing stopped the Israeli cluster bombers and the devastating bombs on Beirut, and why not? Are these aircraft stoppers held back for the next round when the so called Usraeli superior air power will undergo the same feat as the Merkavas? I hate all violence and conflict, and I wish it would stop. In the meantime I observe and see that the idiot games continues to the misery of untold people.

Nice post CaptainZen......and welcome to the forum......

I've been wondering....if China thinks that the earthquake/s were, in effect, an act of war.....what are
they going to do about it ? Do THEY have something like HAARP?

Add another nut to the fruitcake mother.

Why why does somebody have to be a fruitcake for speculating whether or not our military-industrial apparatus has these capabilities?

I mean, If you are doing something that you are not supposed to be doing.... Do you exclaim that fact to anyone who will listen? Or do you try to gloss is over and bury it under the latest stupid celebrity headlines? Me personally, I would choose to disguise it with whatever were the most convenient method of doing so. Although I do sometimes forget that everyone will lie to your face when it easily benefits them, I seldom forget the universal benevolence that our gub consistently displays.

Unless you work for earthquakemachine.com, or HAARP? How do you really know the truth?

It's obviously not important to mankind because I have never read or heard about it in any sort of the msm. It might be very useful to military apps, but mankind? Heavens no.

As for DARPA having nothing to do with the operation, read this-

The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) is an investigation project to "understand, simulate and control ionospheric processes that might alter the performance of communication and surveillance systems." Started in 1993, the project is proposed to last for a period of twenty years. The project is jointly funded by the United States Air Force, the Navy, the University of Alaska and Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA). The system was designed and built by Advanced Power Technologies, Inc. (APTI) and since 2003, by BAE Systems Inc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAARP


So our military/industrialists(gubmint) would never lie to us, huh?

An analogy...

Say, for instance, you can steal a man's money right in front of him. Since you were face to face, even with a gun in your face, it became as much a robbery as it did a so-called victimless crime. Why? Nobody was hurt. It was just money. Does anyone bother to ask why they are being robbed? They are happy to no longer even think about the situation. Soon enough, inside your own mind, you will reconstruct that single event into something entirely else. In other words, you move on. The mind has an easy history for doing that.

So, in other words, are we paying for something that has no use to us a whole? Are we paying for the earthquake machine? If you trade facts for speculation... Why are you comfortable with the way the fed is moving? Why are 'speculators', AKA WALL STREET getting rich while the all of us have to endure the cost of doing the real work?

You guys have so many answers, yet no solutions. MID might be the closest to being actually rational. I don't think many others can afford his particular comfort zone.

HAARP is supposed to be directed at the ground for earthquakes isn't it? They started using a similar technology on a smaller scale as a type of ground penetrating radar, and that was the whole idea behind HAARP being able to cause earthquakes. Here is a video that can explain it better for those of you you may not know what HAARP is.

here

One of the tell tale signs of HAARP being used is that it supposedly creates "northen lights" or Aurora Borealis in the sky above where it is aimed.



Here is a video that proves China had Aurora Borealis in the sky shortly before the recent earthquake that happend there...watch

Was there Aurora Borealis before Katrina?

LMAO!!!

HAARP is not directed at the ground and does not create Aurora Borealis (hint: different mechanisms). Oh, and by the way, they are polar lights and the area Katrina was roaming around in isn'r exactly a polar region.

Just for reference, how about reading the facts about project HAARP from the scientists actually doing the work (here) instead of unsubstantiated conjecture. Simple research is not that hard to do, especially with a browser and google in front of you.

Cheers,
Badeskov

One doesn't have to be a fruitcake, but when going against all facts to keep supporting something like that, it certainly helps I guess. Especially when it again and again has been pointed out why it cannot be so, and despite the sound arguments, unsubstantiated conjecture keeps coming. That, in my honest opinion, shows a desire or need to believe beyond any reason and in that case, I think the label fruitcake is adequate.



Because of of the energy requirements involved are so ludicrous, that it is absolutely absurd - plain and simple. And that you cannot focus the radio waves from HAARP. And that HAARP has nowhere the emitted power stated in some of these claims...and so on, read my earlier post.



I see. Do you have any idea whatsoever of how many projects of various kinds are currently being undertaken, a lot which might not provide the quantum leaps we all like to see, but rather is that fundamental cornerstone of technological progress that is so important?! I guess not. Despite what you think, our continued development of the technology we all so relish only rarely comes from well publicized, ground breaking research. Most of it is painstaking development. If you really wanted to follow all the research projects via the news media, they would have nothing else to do (and would probably do a pretty poor job of presenting what was going on anyways).



Sure. Here is the statement from TTO. But DARPA is not running it, it is just the main funding body sitting in the background.



Sure. But why exactly is it that you think it is the case here?! I have yet to see a single sound argument for this from anybody. All I have seen so far is completely unsubstantiated youtube videos, which are being referenced without any form of fact checking and critique - in this case especially laughable due to the blatant factual errors they contain.



No, you are not paying for an Earthquake machine, nor a weather control machine. You are paying for what you can read in their mission statement, plain and simple.



And what solutions are you exactly looking for here?! We guys with so many answers and no solutions have provided the arguments for why this is so absurd on so many levels. Care to counter a single one of those arguments if you really believe this tripe that HAARP has some sinister purpose with respect to Earthquakes or weather modification?! And, no, I am not looking for a youtube video. Either you have the means to do so, or you are in no position to ask for solutions (whatever you mean by that) or complain about people going against what you believe.

So, what is it?! Care to put forward some technical arguments for your statement or are you just blasting the Government/military machine as a whole?!



To that I can only agree. Very few has the knowledge and patience that has been bestowed upon MID.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for typos.

From the fruit cake:
http://www.google.com/search?q=haarp+weath...GL_enAN267AN267
go there
read all
then come back with your cake toppings,
Zen

And for all those sure knowing bull fighters
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz...amp;btnG=Search
there is no truth in the internet,
and most all are godless entities,
believing without knowing.
Research, believe nothing.
There is a nice book by the name " Angels Don't Play This Haarp, advances in Tesla technology" by Nick Begich and Jeane Manning.
Check it on Amazon. Read it and return here with the fruits for my cake.

Well, at least you can see the humour of it all - you earned my respect for that (albeit not for your technical insight and fact finding abilities)!! I had a little time while waiting for some stuff to finish at work, so I looked at the and here is my take:

First link:



Bolding mine. Good grief. The HAARP facility is a 3.6 million watt transmitter, not billion. And the power delivered is on a the order of a few microwatts/cm2 in the ionosphere. To generate 1.7GWe continuous power you'd need something on the order of 3 US nuclear power stations right next to the facility - would be quite noticable, I would suspect. And for $30 million that is quite a bargain! And, of course, a flimsy antenna array as the one HAARP has is capable to operating at 1.7GWe?! Not really...And thus the nonsense continues...

The second link uses the same reference and is thus the same garbage as the first.

The third link is a youtube video, which I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

The fourth link is utter lunacy with no references or technical details whatsoever.

The fifth link is based on the testimony of a Dr. Rosalie Bertell, which has a Ph.D. in Biometrics - not exactly her field of expertise. And she doesn't give any details either. Useless.

And so it continues. Either the links contain no facts or they are grossly distorted.

Bring me technical details (that actually match reality), then we can talk.

How is that for cake toppings?!

Cheers,
Badeskov

Just had a nibble.......at your topping.....there's something wrong !

Next time use icing sugar....not....WHITEWASH !!

That was a very good one - I must have taken the wrong box from the pantry, my apologies!!!!

Cheers,
Badeskov

I think to understand which sort of creampie, eh, dreampie dear Badeskov is.
B, believing is NOT knowing, and so, I believe that evil has more tricks in its Pandora box than you (and I) will ever know.
It seems you are still in your enthusiastic optimistic youthfulness. However, believing in Santa Claus does not make Him real.
Believing the wonderful positive harmlessness military establishment does not make it so.
Keep on dreaming B, nothing is wrong, no harm will come from HAARP, but please let us continue our observations without having to put up with your fine bakery politics.

First of all, welcome to the forum. Sorry, I should have said that in my earlier post, but I was a bit tired when I wrote it....and the whitewash I used instead of sugar icing was the brand used for Government Disinformation Agents only (old habits die hard) - I think MID left it when he dropped by the last time

OK, jokes aside. I have no doubt that there are ongoing projects that would be called sinister by most happening behind closed doors, but that is not really the focus of this discussion. I am really only addressing the validity of the HAARP claims in the present thread (and others, for that matter) and the ability of man to initiate earthquakes.

Both are simply ludicrous from a simple, factual analysis. It would correspond to asking you to demolish a 10 story concrete building armed only with the magnetron from a microwave oven. The difference in energy requirements (absurdly large, absolutely mind-boggling huge) compared to what we can generate (very small in comparison, unless we decided to detonate the collective nuclear arsenals simultaneously - which wouldn't do us much good anyways, as we would have a very hard time of focusing the released energy). And I don't expect you to take my work for it, but my word should at least carry an equal amount of weight as any other claim out there - and hopefully a bit more as I can substantiate most of my claims posted in this thread. But in any case, it is up to you to make an educated decision on what you believe. For instance, the claimed 1.7GWe emitted power that was referenced earlier, do you believe that or do you believe me when I tell you that it is just plain out silly because (pardon me for repeating myself):

1) It would require 3 US nuclear power plants right next to it (A large US nuclear plant typically yields .8 to .9GWe).
2) The antenna array would not be able to sustain such radiated energy

Or the claim that they can focus the energy, which is also plain out silly as:

1) The antennas in the first place are not directional, i.e. they will radiate over a large area
2) The Ionosphere is in constant motion and thus assuring that a certain surface area to be illuminated is plain out impossible. It would correspond to shine a flash light into a mirror and then hitting a certain spot opposite the mirror, but without knowing the angle of the mirror and no way of looking at where the spot actually is.

I can understand that nobody can excel in all fields simultaneously and this is why this discussion forum is a learning experience for all of us:) So, please if you have any questions regarding this feel free to ask, just do me a favor and look at all claims wearing your critical hat.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for typos.

Since you seem to have done more exhaustive research on all this HAARP nonsense, is it possible that the antennae array need not be located on earth? Is it also possible that 'allegedly' more powerful antennae arrays may exist somewhere on this planet?




By Guy Cramer


As political and military experts on News talk shows discuss with all seriousness, the potential for a tactical nuclear response from the U.S. for the mounting bio-terror attacks, it should be pointed out that geophysics warfare weapons such as HAARP are making nuclear retaliation obsolete.

This military array in Alaska and others like it around the world have the potential to deliver an equivalent nuclear detonation to a long-range target without warning, without the missile and without the radiation. One of 12 U.S. HAARP patents is titled: U.S. Patent 4873928: Nuclear-Sized Explosions Without Radiation

HAARP was constructed under the SDI (Strategic Defense Initiative) other wise known as "Star Wars”.

The High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) is a congressionally initiated program jointly managed by the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy. Using 3 gigawatts of power (3 billion watts) from a 23-acre site in Gakona, Alaska, it is considered the most powerful array on Earth.

Another ability of an array such as HAARP could be used to heat radiate people within a large yet distant target, even a buried underground bunker or cave network. This would minimize public and international opposition to such a response as the effects, although not as visual as tactical nuclear detonations, provides a similar broad termination of targets. The world may not even realize anything had happened and thus large-scale enemy losses in one location without physical munitions detonations may be played down or passed off as conventional combat or Special Forces action.

The trick to using such a weapon with underground targets is to find the target in the first place. The same array that may be used to deliver the effect can also be used to penetrate deep into the ground to find the target. HAARP can in effect be used for Earth-penetrating tomography, which can reveal the existence of underground installations.

The HAARP complex consists of 180 towers, 72 feet in height, forming a "high-power, high frequency phased array radio transmitter". Military applications of HAARP include long-range ground penetration radar, over the horizon radar, submarine communication…

The basics for Ground penetration or target neutralization is to use the antenna array to target and heat the ionosphere in the upper atmosphere to create a lens to bounce or reflect a signal off to a target of great distance. Although some distances may be to far to reach a target if it is on the other side of the globe.

Moon Bounce
In late 1998 and early 1999 the ELFRAD GROUP monitored a daily frequency from .9 to .95 hertz (pulses per second), the wavelength of this frequency was approximately 319,877km or 198,711 miles. The moon's distance is fairly close to the wavelength. The signal appears to be a controlled signal transmitted from an unknown source at approximately the same time daily except weekends. The signal is strong enough to generate it's third harmonic which is 2.81235 hz. The signal has a very quick rise time and a slower decay at the end, which is usually indicative of an artificial source. A low pass filtered showed the signal tracks very well with the magnetometers placed in various locations around the planet especially those in the northern area.

Lets pick apart the data above. A Ultra Low Frequency signal in late 1998 through early 1999 from an unknown source which occurs only on week days, powerful enough to create a third harmonic wave, with a quick rise slow decay which tracks better with magnetometers in the North and a wavelength approximately matching the distance to the moon. The answer seems apparent HAARP or a similar array in the North is bouncing signals off the Moon back to the Earth.

Why would you want to bounce signals off the Moon?
To reach targets around the world you could design a floating mobile HAARP that would have to equal the surface area of five large aircraft carriers or 8 super tankers tied together costing billions of dollars, or you could use a stationary permanent array such as HAARP and use the moon as a reflector to effectively bounce your signals anywhere on Earth given mutual Moon visibility between the source and the target!

Ham radio enthusiasts call this reflection technique EME (Earth-Moon-Earth) or Moonbounce, and have been utilizing the moon with High Frequencies since the 1950’s to communicate around the world. HAARP can transmit both Low and High Frequencies.

Israeli HAARP?
It is rumored that Israel has access to a similar array, which would increase mutual moon visibility in the Middle East region for Moonbounce transmission, but proximity to any targets in this area might be close enough to an Israeli array that Ionosphere reflection might be possible around the clock.

Tactical Nuclear retaliation by the U.S. during the War on Terrorism is in effect obsolete, given that the Americans could Tactically strike with a geophysics array producing similar damage associated with nuclear detonation, without the long term detrimental effects and downwind radioactive fallout. Other alternative uses of the array such as radiating transmissions may provide similar biological target termination without any blast effects. Moonbounce techniques also mean that a stationary array can in effect target anywhere on the Earth.

Star Wars now seems an appropriate term for this particular Strategic Defense Initiative using HAARP to utilize the Moon as a potential Death Star!

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/haarp/esp_HAARP_3.htm

Click to view attachment

Unexplained ground heat burns boy’s feet
Bill Folsom

Colorado Springs Published 3 day(s) ago
There was no fire, but the ground was hot enough in a Colorado Springs park to burn through an eight year old boy’s shoes and cause at least second degree burns on his feet. The boy went the hospital. His Crocs style shoes that were left behind have big holes with burned edges.

Firefighters want to know what’s causing the ground to get so hot near Golden Hills Park in the Rockrimmon neighborhood. Battalion Chief, Kent Matthews says, "In my twenty-four years I haven't witnessed this kind of occurrence. So it's unique.”

After the boy was treated and sent to the hospital firefighters took surface readings that showed hard to believe temperatures. According to Chief Matthews, "The highest temperature we got at the surface of the soil with the sun shining on it was 800 degrees, which is pretty darn significant. Radiant heat from the sun will get it up around 150, 160 degrees, but not to that level."

Firefighters have taped off the area and are monitoring it until they can figure out what's causing the ground to get so hot. Tests by hazmat team members show there are no dangerous gases. Crews have cut a fire-line around the area to prevent the heat from potentially starting a wildfire.

Early assessments show the problem area is coal dust. Neighbors say the area has appeared blackened as long as they can remember. What has to be determined is if it was dumped here years ago or if there's something happening underground. Crews from the state geological are on the way to figure out an explanation.

http://www.koaa.com/aaaa_top_stories/x1331638508

Any connection to the program?

About the boys shoes melting/burning very interesting. I am under the impression it very well could be geothermal.

I think it is generally accepted that HAARP is based on

inventor, Bernard J. Eastlund's United States Patent 4686605.

This patent can be viewed..>>>>HERE

And is also included in the patents section on wikipedia........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAARP


I've nearly gone bog-eyed reading through it all...but it does make interesting reading.

This is the last section of it and I've highlighted bits that may be relevent to this thread.....

Hi snooze,

It is not as much as I have researched the HAARP project especially, it is just that I happen to work with such. I am not trying to speak as an authority figure in the matter, but I am trying to point out what is wrong and then have you (and others) understand where I am coming from and make up your own mind (hopefully after a bit of research). But please allow me to address your two questions:



No. Again, if we are talking emitted power levels as discussed (more than 1GW electric power emitted), the size of the antennas would ve very visible from the Earth plus you would have to drag a couple of nuclear power plants along with it. Solar arrays is not going to cut it unless they are humongous (again, something that would be very obvious from the surface of our fair planet). So I think we can rule that out.



It is entirely possible, although I am not sure what the purpose would be. First of all, we are still stuck with the power requirement (a couple of nuclear power plants next to it). Secondly, reflecting energy off the ionosphere and then expecting to aim a focused beam is simply not possible. The ionosphere is in constant motion and is not by any measure a "flat mirror" with a predetermined angle of reflection.

Secondly, if you were really trying to deliver energy to a point deep underground, you would basically have to blast that energy through all the people living on top of that fault line (if we are imagining an earthquake scenario) and when you finally provoke the Earthquake none of the surface would really be alive to care. And you would still need a lot more energy that we could ever produce anyhow to do it.

Finally, just to put things in perspective, the most powerful radars on Earth (directional antennas) are the Ballistic Missile Early Warning System radars and they operate at 582.4 kilowatts (kW) peak [ref]. Or about 2,000 times less that has been postulated the HAARP operates at.

Honestly, it is a question of looking at possible power levels and what is required to actually do what has been postulated and it simply doesn't add up. Then there is something about physics and how one would generate earth quakes with such means, but that is a completely different question.

But lets have a quick look at Mr. Cramer's assertions (and he has no idea what he is talking about, which is very obvious from what he writes).



Nonsense right there as will be pointed out further down.



It is not military, it civillian, but military funded for research in defense applications, but also for civilian.



Nope. SDI was long dead when funding to HAARP was approved.



Now it is 3GWe (Gigawatts electrical); this number is continuously inflating. That would be 4 large nuclear power stations surrounding it, just for HAARP. Impressive. And that puny array would have no means to take that power. It simply doesn't add up. It's like arguing that your vacuum cleaner runs at 1MW and then claiming it's the size of a normal vacuum cleaner and is plugged into your regular kitchen outlet. It simply cannot be.



Pure nonsense. Again, there are no means of focusing a directed beam by means of atmospheric reflection as the atmosphere is fluid.



Again, nonsense. You have no means of doing so.



OK, this is where the dear Mr. Cramer really gets himself in hot water. First of all, HAARP antennas certainly have a some phased array capabilities, they are far from a phased array radar using the dipole antennas they do. And they have no phase control as they would need to direct it anywhere but straight up. Secondly, it is claimed that it is a high frequency transmitter, which is basically in direct contradiction with the statement that "military applications of HAARP include long-range ground penetration radar, over the horizon radar, submarine communication…"

This is simply plain wrong. E.g., submarine communications use ELF (Extremely Low Frequency at 40-80Hz, ref). That is required since water will attenuate the signals very fast otherwise. The same with deep penetrating radar, that has to me low frequency as otherwise water in the soil, rock or the like would kill the signal very fast. This simply shows that Mr. Cramer has no idea what he is talking about.



Again, a blatant lack of knowledge of the atmosphere and radar systems.

Please see next post for continuation....

Continued....



I am not sure what defines fairly close, as the distance moon is ~384,403 km and the wavelength at .9Hz is ~333,333km. I guess 50,000 or 13% is close for some (that is no where near close where I come from).



OK.



This statement is pure nonsense. Harmonic generation is not indicative of a strong signal of itself. In vacuum there should be no harmonic generation at all and the 3rd harmonic would be from the transmitter (or whatever generated the signal). Again, that is simple wave theory.



Nonsense. Many naturally occurring events exhibit a fast rise time and a slow fall (decay) time. Exemplified, look at the light from a supernova. It suddenly explodes, which is a fast reaction and thus to us here on Earth, it suddenly brightens and then slowness diminishes in brightness. And there are many other examples.



See the contradiction here? Before HAARP was a high frequency array, now it is suddenly capable of operating around 1Hz . Antennas working in the ELF region are hundreds of kilometers long, and vastly different (they are basically ultra-long wires on telephone poles). The facts are simply in direct contradiction to what is stated here.

There has actually been several experiments with bouncing signals off the moon for communications purposes, but satellites are so much more versatile that it was dropped again. Secondly, you don't have access to bounce signals off the moon if it is on the opposite side of the Earth. Finally, there is a significant delay using the moon compared to satellites.



Now he is really getting himself in hot water. Electromagnetic waves lose energy by the square of the distance and to the fourth order when it has bounced off something and is returning to another limited sized areae.g., see wiki, and the moon is by no means a perfect reflector, i.e. only a fraction of the signal is reflected. But even if it exhibited a total reflection, the signal would be significantly reduced (by several orders of magnitude).

Again, he shows a significant lack of radio wave propagation and how it ties into what he is claiming.



HAARP has no means of transmitting at ~1Hz, as he suggested above for the reasons I stated. HAARP low frequency is 3MHz.



Sigh. Completely unsubstantiated conjecture.



Simply pure nonsense. First of all, not only for the means stated above, but retaliatory nuclear strikes are not tactical, but strategical of nature. Tactical strikes are used in a limited battle field theater to gain an advance, not to assert revenge. Not even this can he get correct. And, no, a moon bounce is a very broad area reflection, so in the sense it can target the visible (from the moon) half globe of the Earth - the only problem is that it will target the whole half and not a 1 square mile area somewhere.



Yikes. I am utterly flabbergasted. That was simply nonsense end start to end. Some wild assertions mixed with some good sounding words, but with no meaning whatsoever. Plain out garbage.

Can you see what I mean by the comments I wrote?! Otherwise, please do ask me question

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited: oops, error in my quotes...

I concur. Geothermal sounds likely.

Cheers,
Badeskov