If you watch the all of this video, not only are you concerned about what they are doing to our skies, but you will see images within government planes and attached to these planes chem trail devices that blow apart hoax calls that a nwo is not attempting to poison us.

Watch the video and please argue against this being for real.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6FO4GHBu_Hs

No thank you. Care to sum what the video portrays?

Care to read what I wrote about what the video portrays first?

Perhaps this could have been posted into the other chemtrail thread on front page of this forum? Have you read that thread? You might learn how ludicrous is the whole idea about chemtrails.

Yea we got em' where i live, they're called VAPOUR trails.

DON'T TELL ME, TESLA AGAIN?

I did and I don't plan on wasting a single minute of my life watching another video about a completely stupid hypothesis. I would suggest you sum up the video if you want people to look at it, and your arguments better be very, very good to get some serious attention for an idea so blatantly stupid (which was pointed numerous times in the other thread). Until then, this is another one for the garbage bin.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Ahhh, get real and watch the video then we can put this hypothesis rubbish to ed. Go on, don't be a woose, watch the five minutes of nice music and instruments of chem trail spraying. Until you ddo get real this topic is interesting for me to hang onto. I will go and get more evidence until wehave an adult debate on this particular video (NOT CHEM TRAIL SPECULATIONS...THIS PARTICULAR VIDEO)

Can someone tell me what are those nossles on the sides of the government military planes that fly over our home late at night denied by our government with the cover story vapour trails to insult the ignorant? Can someone tell me what else they could be, on that plane or shall i copy diagram shots for you first......good idea, i want the bottom of why so many here refute without evidence the obvious in front of their eyes. they seem to be a little outlandish with their attiudes. Proof with your claims please.

So do you feel insulted?

I watched the video, wasted another few minutes of the precious few I have remaining and I saw the following:

a 747 dumping fuel

a KC135 modified to spray water for aircraft anti icing system trials on following aircraft

another 747 and an airbus fitted with barrels used for weight transfer simulation - part of the flight certification testing of all aircraft

a communications array

several air data sensor heads on an atmospheric research aircraft

probably the same aircraft fitted with atmospheric particle collectors

A baggage pod - does the same thing as the one on your cars roof-rack!

lots of pictures of VAPOUR TRAILS - formed when aircraft fly through areas of water saturated air caused by air pressure differential at the aircraft extremeties

absolutly no chem trails and no evidence of 'special modifications' for such purposes.

but there again I am ex establishment so therefore, can I really be trusted!

Good post. And yes, there are plenty of other stuff, real stuff, to be afraid of.

Looking up at the white lines in the sky screaming--- -AHHH they are spraying us!! --- is crazy.

I suggest that OP takes a look at the other chemmie thread.

Ahh, but that would require actual reading, rather than viewing a video produced by some unknown youtube poster.

I love it (actually, I cringe) when someone posts a link to youtube and declares "this is my opinion." Ugh!

I agree with debunker, good post! Thanks for taking the time...

Cheers,
Badeskov

This is why youtube can be construed as an abomination - apparently for some it leaves rational thinking behind. By all means of respect, but I think glyndowers heir made a very good list of why this video is garbage. There is no evidence whatsoever for what you without any form of critique post from youtube and then adopt as your opinion. Rather the opposite, it turns out to be pretty common sights in aviation circles. If you really think something is going on, I would start with trying to look at what you watch and then use google for a bit instead of wasting completely good bandwidth on such trash.

There was a reason why you should read the other thread on this matter (and probably also the i don't know how many preceding it). They all state why the idea of chemtrails as described is totally ludicrous and in all honesty, that you would even start a new thread with nothing new (you don't even try to argue why this is the thread to follow) and then claim when countered that this is evidence and it is right in front of our eyes, when all the previous threads has the screaming out the opposite for all of the world to hear - truly baffling.

No, this is a waste of time and next time I would suggest you to actually look at what you post and then try to form an independent opinion from which you can argue. These kind of posts doesn't exactly increase people's willingness to answer you...

Cheers,
Badeskov

If the chemtrails are poisioning us down here, where is the physical evidence? Evil chemicals on sidewalks, leaves, roofs, baby carraiges? It's obviously designed to fall to Earth....where the Hell is it???????

Proof of what? Proof that they're not some fiendish (although vague) kind of government conspriacy?
As usual.

Yup...I think this one can be packed and sent off to whereever dead threads depart to (Tesla failed to manifest himself)...nothing to see here, move along

Cheers,
Badeskov

The celebrated debunker needs more explanation for the rational mind to accept technical reaoning for what seems a litte to obvious in comparrison to what has been revealed.

after the egotistical remark of wasting your time, you still watched the video and replied a second time and I hope you wate more time explaining your techncal examination with links or places for others to understand and know more realisticly the reality presented.

Lol.

Your first statement.

a 747 dumping fuel.

Please correct my desperate fears by explaing if these shots are th same 747 fuel dumping formality. because even a high schoolboy would recognize these trails as different to vapour trails. I hope I am not insulting your reidiculous claims, so do read on beyond the pictures.

FROM THE VIDEO







I believe there have been a mass of new pro conspiracy videos introduced deliberately all in the same summer of 2007 as a way of smoke screening abd missinforming the waking public. The time before this was the grey alien wash of fake videos.So i know what the media programmers do.....so when I say proof, I mean proof, to be debunked properly..And if there is an expert here lending his wisdom, please do thoroughly and be the first to be actually convicing with your escuses.

So tell me, are these lines 747 dumping excercises, and more specifically. Can you find a single airial photo before 1980, that has long white lines in the sky...THE ANSWER IS NO..PLEASE REFUTE MY BOLD INK WITH AN IMAGE OF A WHITE LINED SKY DATEDBEFORE 1980.

REAL VAPOUR TRAILS. Compare the size and thickness to the above photos.

Jet airliner vapour trails






Please explain why if vapour trails vanish in minutes what are these doing in the air?



The debunker has perfectly good answers to my questions. I hope to read them soon.

It usually makes me angry to witness blatant lies about dangerous realities.

This is a video from a Japanese airline passenger passing over a new form of chem trail. I am hoping the deunker can explain these lines as vapour or fuel dumping. I would like to hear what he says as insulting my intellgenc just won't do.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=580_1210628568&p=1

Images from the video

http://rides.webshots.com/album/562466705CfBDnk

Quite a few contrail shots from WWII in this gallery, along with some neat B17 shots.

Jet, my friend, have you ever seen a plane flying at altitude? That's what they do. That's what the word contrails means: condensation trails, from the engines. If you look at those pictures, you'll notice that in each of them, the number of contrails corresponds to the number of engines: a 747 has four, a 777 (which i think the third one is) two.

And in your next post, correct, the first is indeed contrails; the second one isn't, that's vortices, on a smaller scale, from the wings in humid air at low altitudes.
Any more questions?

Those aren't vapor trails, they're clouds. We see them here near the mountains a fair amount. Caused by turbulence in the atmosphere in the lee of the mountains.

This is a neat one, as well... B-17s, US Army 8th Air Force, 1943/44. Note how the contrails kick in above a certain altitude, so the lower group aren't making any.

THE ANSWER IS PWNAGE!

Yes vapour trails do that and vanish with minutes, chem trails do that much thicker and linger for hours. By the way, superb images. But ifyou find images of trails with the planes long gone, then I'm debunked.



There is a phenomena called Morning Glory. Which is much different to the Japanese video but can easily be used to fool and debunk with.

http://www.meteo.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~r...troduction.html

I love contrail controversy...it's so...futile.

I worked on an assortment of aircraft throughout the years, and this contrail thing is a myth. IF someone is spraying something, it would be done differently. It's just NOT feasible to do it this way. There are better delivery systems.

No, sorry, you can't do that. You said "THERE ARE NO PICS BEFORE 1980 SHOWING LINES IN THE SKY", and guess what - you were extremely wrong.

Now you want to turn it around and give more criteria? Laughable.

You're wrong, your "evidence" is debunked, you should stop while you are behind.

Standard technique. "No, i didn't mean like that, I meant like that", and so on.
As for how long they remain, it depends on weather conditions, wind, humidity, and so on; and why are there more of them now than there were? Perhaps just because there's more air travel now than forty years ago.

I think you may be so angry that you are confusing posts from 2 seperate people.
The first from myself and the second - debunker's reply to my post

This makes it unclear as to whom you are directing your above remarks, as neither of us has posted 2 replys to you until this one.

Regarding your comment about 'after the egotistical remark of wasting your time, you still watched the video and replied a second time and I hope you wate more time explaining your techncal examination with links or places for others to understand and know more realisticly the reality presented.'
Iwas not attempting to be so, only factual - the wasting disease that took me away from flying does not leave me many more minutes. and the photos you include in the above post are the clearest evidence you have posted yet that these phenomenon are merely contrails or to give them their proper name - Condensation trails.

as others have said the thick vapour lines are clouds formed under certain conditions mainly around mountains - not from the back end of a chemical bomber!

as for your final remark there are plenty if WW2 and cold war images all if my memory serves me right were taken prior to 1980.

Many people have tried on this and other threads to present those such as yourself with the proof that you demand, unfortunately your mindset remains convinced that 'They (the government, illuminate, aliens or the wicked witch of the west) are out to get you.

Please to avoid further loss of face for yourself before the UM community step back, take a deep breath and look at the evidence again rather than posting silly scare stories such as this.

I wholeheartedly agree; especially in the face of it was you, Jet, that start the previous thread where all this was explained (as it has been in numerous threads). And you quickly bailed out of that thread, just to start a new thread on exactly the same nonsense (pardon my candor).

Honestly, in the next chemtrail thread I would expect to see some serious arguments for what is believed instead of another youtube rampage - although I wouldn't hold my breath.

Cheers,
Badeskov

PS: Glyndower, great posts

My father was a combat veteran of 31 missions aboard a B-17. He told me how they used to curse the contrails their formations left, as they were a pointing finger betraying their flight path to the Luftwaffe antiaircraft batteries below.

Edit: those planes dropped bombs, but didn't engage in chemical warfare................

...and for the people on the ground, seeing a massive man-made cirrus formation coming at 200kts, knowing full well what they were carrying, and their intentions...

In summary, there is no evidence that these "chemtrails" are other than expected, normal contrails from jet aircraft that vary in their shapes, duration, and general presentation based on prevailing weather conditions.

That is not to say that there could not be an occasional, purposeful experimental release of, say, high altitude barium for standard wind tracking experiments. There could also be other related experiments that occur from time to time which release agents into the atmosphere.

Anecdotal stories of persons getting sick after contrails from obviously supersaturated tropospheric conditions lend no basis for belief that there are chemicals or biological agents being released.
This type of story provides as much credence to "chemtrails" as does the belief that drinking milk is causally linked to heroin addiction. (Almost all heroin addicts in the US drank milk as children.)

I contend that there is no visible or other physical evidence of high altitude spraying, and so I do not believe in chemtrails.

The moniker might just as well be applied to contrails, however, for both the visible and invisible (chemical) components of jet exhaust there are cause for at least some concern.

badeskov
Thank you for your kind comments, one tries ones best

Anytime, credit should be given where credit is due

Cheers,
Badeskov

Persistent contrails have existed and been known about since aircraft could fly high enough.
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/report...ca-wr-l-474.pdf


Reasons why contrails in general and persistant contrails specifically are more prevalent.

1. Jet traffic has doubled a few times since the 70's. It is projected to double again in just 10 years.

2. Jet engines today are more powerful than older models. This means they burn more fuel and consequently have much more water vapor in the exhaust. More water means thicker and more persistent contrails.

3. Jets travel higher now (on average) partly due to increased traffic and partly due to increased power allowing higher flight. Higher flight means colder air which means more and thicker contrails. Read that study from 1942 for more explanation on this.

4. An increase in traffic increases the exhaust put into the atmosphere. This exhaust has a cumulative effect and results in conditions more conducive to contrail formation over the long run. I've read some studies about it and will try to find them, though not everything is available online.

5. Evidence that airlines have changed their engines can be found in the noise regulations that the FAA has put out. Around 2000, Stage 3 regs went into effect. This is a regulation governing the noise output of jet engines and required every airline to either replace their engines or install hush kits. These newer engines are not only quieter but are more fuel efficient meaning again, more water vapor. Incidentally, Stage 4 regs were due to take effect in January of this year requiring even more changes.

Proof of persistent contrails from decades past

1981 NOAA photo of contrail at sunset (persistent spreading contrail from 81)
http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/noaacon1981.jpg

Many pictures of persistent contrails here taken from space on early shuttle missions. (starts an autmatic slide show after a few seconds)
http://www.astro.ku.dk/~holger/IDA/STSHH.html

A navigator's log from WWII. Note in particular mission #24 and this quote "The contrails were dense, persistent - really hard to even see our own squadron."
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1393/andy2.html

WWII pilot's diary Note mission #33 particularly where it says “Heavy dense persistent contrails”
http://www.100thbg.com/mainpages/crews/crews3/jensen.htm

And of course this site specifically showing evidence of persisting contrails well before the 90's
http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-...ding-contrails/

It has some quotes from newspapers in the 40's, 50's, and 70's as well

The News, Frederick, MD, March 7, 1944

“Contrails frequently have a tendency to cause a complete overcast and cause rain. In Idaho I have seen contrails formed in a perfectly clear sky and four hours later a complete overcast resulted“


One of the earliest reference to contrails covering the sky is from the Mansfield News Journal, August 11, 1957, Page 29:

“Within the past few years, the weather bureau has begun to report the trails as actual cloud layers when there are sufficient trails to cover a portion of the sky.”


the Arcadia Tribune, April 29, 1970:

Aircraft contrails begin to streak the normally bright Arizona sky at dawn. Through the day, as air traffic peaks, these contrails gradually merge into and almost solid interlaced sheet of cirrus cloud - an artificial cirrus cloud that is frequently as much as 500 meters deep.

All those people are just lying though right?

Like this....??

Link..>>>>Weatherman radar gets jammed by chemtrails-military testing

Answer me this...why in the name of God would "they"spray the same air that they and their loved ones breath!!? Not even to mention the obvious that many have already pointed out...spraying at that altitude is pointless.

No evidence. Your opinion is valid?




I really want UM to grow away from the obvious lies and uninformed reality painters. In plain englishs, where are your facts. let me donate a few against your viewpoint. we have to become serious about this that hovers above all cities, injested by our lungs and is part organic in it's compound natiure. The evidence is within a lengthy scientific video. That follows

Watch this video selection, In the chem trail section. Video# 2 Aerosol Crimes, gives more scientific facts. I MEAN SCIENTIFIC FACTS involving scenes that may shock you into a debunker storm of irrational assunmptions. But at least the debunkers can explain their views scientificlly, YES?

Maybe some comment on the video number two Aerosol Crimes.

http://www.mind-deprogramming.com/mdvj/mdvj.swf


http://www.mind-deprogramming.com/mdvj/mdvj.swf

I FOUND A MORE USER FRIENDLY LINK HERE. http://youtube.com/watch?v=bmYyvk9Lp-A

FORWARD IT TO 18 MINUTES to view the fibres that are the chem trails.

The facts have been explained to you numerous times, and the simple physics of vapour trail generation (and why they sometimes remain for long periods of time) is easily comprehendable. But you elegantly skipped posting any reply besides new utterly ridiculous youtube videos.

Honestly, why don't you get a blog instead of posting here?! You clearly aren't looking for a critical discussion (you either don't want to as you want to keep your beliefs, however ridiculous, intact or you simply don't have the means to engage in a discussion by critically looking at the facts).

Cheers,
Badeskov

As you say badeskov, there are many people in this and other threads, who have attempted to reason with Jet but all that happens is that when the water gets too hot (IE when INFORMED people who have experience in this field get the best of him!) he abandons the thread or just trots out another load of old tripe from youtube and away we go again.

The reason he does this is that when reasonable people get fed up with his nonsense and stop responding to him, it reinforces his view that his opinions are correct. IE he thinks he has won the debate when the truth is as far from this as you can get without warp drive!

Yes, glyndower, so I have noticed. There seems to be a pattern to this behavior, as you so point out. A sudden influx of youtube videos (or the like), followed by a few intermittent posts carefully avoiding any discussion of actual facts and then absence, until the whole cycle starts over...baffling, to say the least.

Well, I am certainly not going to keep replying to such nonsense, although I will insert a post here and there

Cheers,
Badeskov

Which means...


You want UM to devolve and get rid of those who understand facts as opposed to conjecture, and who realize the difference between hypothesis and fact.
"Obvious lies" is a common CT device used to attempt to refute the litterate, rational, logical, and scientifically inclined populus who realize that this chemtrail nonsense is simply that...

You want UM to become a repository of CTs...someplace easy to come and post nonsense, someplace where you won't get an earful when you make conjectural statements about nonsense like chemtrails...

I get it.

Spot on Mid!

My thanks, g h !

I say there is no place online taken on that level. Crap don't stick wit so many minds running through it.

As for the facts reitterated.

Contrails are at least half the thickness of chem trails.

con trail evaporate ofter seconds..

Chem trails linger.

The gahgah facts as plain as the sky is merky blue.

avoiding the facts is stupid these days and will become so increasingly. chem trails are much thicker and last loner..just like an andrex commercial..there, easy to remember but the fact remains the same..

there is a massive difference between the two types. Anyone with eyes can look up and witness the two types of trails and know one from the other..Even school kids do this in my district. So the debunkers are deliberately doing what to the online community? Trying and failing to dumb us all down?

I hope they realize that the truth shines for those willing to accept it, nomatter who pretends intelligence to refute the obvious facts. chem trails linger for a long time. vapour trails dissapear in seconds.

Cem trail are documented. And I will be back tomorrow with more evidence.

i was just advised that proving a thong online is pointless, informing as many minds is the real purpose of the www. So I chaned my tune. Instead I want to know if anybody has a link for information on the substance materials of the chem trails and the potential uses?

I captured several pics from a lo fi video that explains how fiber like the compound of chem trails are. Beyond the government un scientific joke response that they are spiders webs, scientists have found metal fibers as well as bio compounds within the alien material.


camcordermethod using the sun's coroner to see filaments we breath in every day.



Officially the US government calls this spiders web, it contails very unusual combinations of metals and other compounds. most of us carrry these fibers in our lungs.




Chem trail bio compound



To balance the doom gloom story, I advise you trip to India and listen to some of the holy men there. They help many people understand that we are above nature and all of it's forms of poisons. The many small miracles you can get to see in India still exist, including the resistance of the outer elements like fire walking. One ofthese holy men says the mind can repel aids and and any outside discomfort, if only we would train it to become our servant proper. So, i can throw doom gloom facts, but i also hold the solutions to deal with most of what we have to face. Except the solution to the divide and conquer mentality they have put upon us, to prevent us unifying and defying with purpose these tyrannical ways our peers have decided against our consent or will.

Turn the tap on your sink counter-clockwise.