Lol I'm sorry but if anyone's told you you're a pagan for having that kind of ideal than they are just plain crazy. We haven't been taking care of the environment, and now look at what's happening!! Floods, earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamies......IN ABUNDANCE.......has anyone else noticed this? To me this is a hell of a lot more than just mere coincidence. The way we are treating the earth is what is causing this. This whole thing with the environment, I believe, is karmic in nature. We have sewed destruction, and now we are reaping it. Something must be done.

No, not that Im being judged a Pagan, but a "Bad Christian"...... What do you think???

That man has fallen is an illusion. Just as it is an illusion that we must become enlightened. We are all the centre of infinite consciousness and have been eternally. Therefore we still are and havnt fallen. There is nothing separate from infinite consciousness to fall from it.

Again, I will be gone for a few days but as always will check the posts when I get back, probably sunday or monday.

Jor-el, I truly WOULD like to read the link you posted, problem is my Vista operating system is giving me fits about it; I can't properly download or open the file lol. Hmm I'm sorry, I'd like to hear about it.....

.......Do you realize how close that is to what I'm saying, though? Same field, perhaps, just opposite ends. THOUGHT is the original motivating force; both in God, creation and us. Dense matter is a subsequent mutation of thought, having become bogged down in what was initially seperate from it. Thought is more akin to lava, malleable, perpetually moving, changing, capable of resuming any form. Matter is the inanimate aftermath, responsible only to chisel and hammer. We DON'T have an end!! But the body is the effect of the cause of thought...

....Yes it is true that you live only once, though, IMO you have died countless times. How does that make sense? Continuity. We never truly 'die'. Death is but a transition, a passing through a door from one plane to another. Our story NEVER ends it is simply 'to be continued', to put it simply. Think of a rocket. The boosters get you out into orbit, then they fall away having served their purpose......that is the human death experience. The flesh body, the shell of the soul, discarding the personality and the ego behind it, like the boosters. All the soul retains from a sojourn on earth is the total recall of worldly experiences, now safely stored in the memory bank of the SUPERconscious.....which later, in the next incarnation becomes a facet of the SUBconscious
mind. So the statement it is appointed 'once to die the death', IMO, is not opposed to these views. Death truly is cessation. That is not what we experience at the end here.

......Correct, but I view that passage differently. To me The Way means BY FOLLOWING CHRIST AS THE PATTERN TO SALVATION, not necessarily literal acceptance of Him. As I said earlier on here I believe the Cross to be symbolic of our existence in the material plane and the need to crucify our own ego, our own sense of self. To do this we must become LIKE Jesus..doing unto others, turning the other cheek....this reverses the karma from the fall. It is elevation as opposed to descent and glorification of self. I agree with the scriptural statement.....but in a far broader, more universal sense. I'm sorry I just cannot accept.....ok you called on my name, no matter what you've done, you are forgiven, you're fine, you go on to heaven, while, yes, you were a buddhist, you lived a pious, kind life, helping others, but you did not call on my name, sorry, to hell with you.....no no no no!!! What kind of God would do this???? If a supposed God of love is capable of this, then you may as well believe He's a crazy demiurge or even a fire breathing dragon as someone else suggested. You of course, could come right back and say to me oh, so everyone gets off the hook? No, I don't think that's true at all. We are absolutely accountable for our actions. Karma exists. If you continuusly de-evolve spiritually, by following the paths of the ego and the self, you ultimately will descend into the hell of scriptures.

The experience of the soul is continuous. There is no death. You will incarnate over and over again, but truly, you have only lived once because you are an infinite being. Your soul is infinite! Death only comes at the end, if a soul does become so twisted it is lost to God. Someone like Hitler is probably in hell.

I've got to hand it to you, that's a solid arguement. Gave me pause. But wait a minute here......

First, here's a different concept of the serpent from the book Inner Christianity (which I HIGHLY recomend you, or anyone else reading this thread check out....)

The Serpent & Time: Traditionally, the serpent has been equated with the Devil. Yet from an esoteric standpoint, the serpent has much greater symbolism. Even before Christianity, the serpent has been associated with the ouroboros, "which means 'tail-eater' and which depicts a circular snake swallowing its own tail." As a symbol of time, it refers to the idea "that time - or at any rate our experience of time - is a self-perpetuating ring that traps us in the realm of the Fall." Sometimes you may have experienced occasions when you've lost track of time; being absorbed in some activity or getting lost in daydreaming, ("Time flies when you're having fun"), etc. Such seemingly rare occasions of timelessness are examples of stepping out of the bounds of the ouroboros, out of the duality and dimension of time, into an experience of the present moment. In Genesis, God gives a rather long tirade against the serpent, cursing it and saying, "On your belly shall you crawl, and dirt shall you eat all the days of your life" (Genesis 3:14). According to Smoley, "This suggests that, in the fallen state, the circular serpent known as time has a horizontal dimension - and this is exactly how we experience it, as a linear sequence of moments. We do not usually think of time as the ouroboros, a self-perpetuating cycle out of which we can step if we know how."

Finally, there is a reference in Genesis to humanity's capability of stepping out of the perpetual cycle of time (as in those occasions when one loses track of time). God tells the serpent, "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel." There is obviously more to these words than the mere surface literal interpretation. Smoley suggests that to "strike at your head" (the head of the serpent) means "to step outside time," as in those brief moments when we truly experience the present moment. And "while you strike at his heel" refers to the serpent's (time's) power to pull humanity back into the horizontal, linear dimension of time, back to our "fallen" condition.

1. I guess I am a gnostic at least in a sense lol. I feel I am like God. Does not the scripture itself say "Let us make man in our own image?" If that's not LIKE God, I don't know what is. But, I am in no way saying I am EQUAL to god or am a god myself. I am a spiritual being, with Him as my Source. No more, no less.

2. Think about your own statement there. Either way, eternal life is part of the deal, no matter what stance of Christianity you take, gnostic or fundamentalist. Its a question not of whether it occurs or not, but whether it is with God or it isn't. Yes, I, I achieve eternal life. Again, from either perspective. My view, it is through numerous incarnations on an upward spiral to God, by clearing the karmic deeds of the past. From a fundamentalist POV it is welcoming Christ into your heart, or not. To a certain extent, we do control that aspect of eternal life.

3. No, never EQUAL to God. I don't care if that is what other gnostics believe or not. We have never been, nor will we ever be God's equal in my view. Again, from Inner Christianity:

"The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil: As opposed to the Tree of Life, eating of this tree's fruit "means being aware of the multiplicity while remaining oblivious to the one source from which it all arises." [...] "It represents a sense of separation and polarity: we know good only by comparing it to evil." In a way, eating of this "forbidden" fruit allowed Adam and Eve a full experience of being-ness and self-awareness, which they could not experience in the static Garden of Eden. By experiencing a world of duality it gave them the opportunity to acquire wisdom, grow and evolve. Their perception switched from unity consciousness to an ego-centered identity. It was as if the focus was no longer awareness of being one with the complete "tree of life" but more of an identity as a single, separate branch of that tree. To see only the fruit rather than comprehending the reality of the whole tree."

........so no, it does not mean God's knowledge by eating from the tree. Rather, it is the knowledge of SELF, the birth of the ego. That is why they had to put the loincloths on and hide from God when He came down to see them. They now were aware of self. To reiterate, the Garden of Eden is a symbolic story. That whole section in Genesis is about the birth of the ego, and the idea of putting self before God. Self-awareness!!! APART from Source!!!! The begining of all sin......

To say it is my opinion that we were spiritual beings in the beginning is not the same as calling us equals to God. God is the first cause. Nothing could ever be equal to Him. But the reality is, we ARE ABOVE MATTER! You too will admit that we are in a fallen state; but fallen from what? Being a perfect man, a perfect Adam, in the garden, to one who literally becomes sin, becomes death for all of 'man'? Or, that we were all as SOULS descending INTO Adam and matter; thus beginning the theory of evolution, with souls housed in flesh. Yes, we are fallen, but from a SPIRITUAL nature that possessed true knowledge of self IN ITS RELATION TO SOURCE....that is what we have LOST, and that is why we are here. To re-learn what we've always known. To be again what God had intended for us before the fall.

......True enough. I too still believe that John the Baptist may have been a reincarnation of Elijah though the scripture doesn't exactly state it. There were Jews in Jesus' day that did believe in reincarnation. What does that say?

Take care all, see you soon.........

Actually, the original word "nachash" in Hebrew has multiple meanings, depending on whether it is taken as a noun, verb or adjective.

When nachash functions as a noun it means “snake,” and so the traditional translation is possible, but it contradicts with Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14. When nachash serves as a verb it means “to practice divination.” That meaning could also be possible in Genesis 3 due to the deception going on, Lucifer claiming to have the “real” word from God. When a verb receives an article attached to it, the action of the verb is then transformed into a person doing the action. Hence the word ha-nachash would then best be translated “the diviner.”

The third option, the adjectival meaning of nachash, is the solution to the problem of a talking snake. When nachash serves as an adjective, it’s meaning is “shining bronze” or “polished” (as in “shiny”). By adding the article to the word, ha-nachash would then
quite easily mean “the shining one.” Angelic or divine beings are elsewhere described in the Bible as “shining” or luminous, at times with this very word, nachash. We often don’t think about how common this vocabulary of “shining brilliance” is for angels and
other divine beings.

Okay, I grant you that, absolutely. It is certainly not my place to accuse God of, for lack of a better term, bad judgement. If, ultimately, He does send souls to hell, I can only say Amen. However, this response, in a way, no offense of course, dodges my original point/question in that post. The pious Buddhist (as an example), or better yet, a Muslim, who actually devoutly prays to a personal God.....yet they do not accept Christ as a Saviour. Does this mean the underworld for them; despite the fact that they may live a truly selfless life or devout one?

......Or is it? Just because the story could be a metaphor, rather than an actual event, does not make the message any less true IMO. But let me ask you this, then, if you do believe in a literal Adam and Eve, what about Darwinism, evolution? I myself have been reticent to accept the theory myself, but the evidence, is overwhelming in its favor. Never the less, it does not weaken my faith, nor give me the grounds to challenge it......because it is my personal view that the scale of evolution REQUIRES a divine hand, and it is not the product of random chance. A building is completed in several stages, but it requires an architect. But because I believe in evolution, I find it rather hard to believe in a literal Adam and Eve.

.......Yes and that is true. The Christian experience leads to God through Christ the Redeemer. I have no quarrel with that statement. It is truth. But, see, it is my view that this is but ONE PATH of a vast and infinite God of which we truly know very little. Starting on this track will lead you to the finish line; but there are also other starting points on the track, that I feel, still lead to the same destination.

....that's so close to what I believe, only difference is I feel ours is of spirit origin. Gives us a sort of dominion over the material plane.

.....Not really because either stance you take the end result is the same. The birth of the ego occurred in the garden, whether the story is literal or metaphor. The natural tendency of man is to live to gratify self. Of that there can be no mistake.

...........Argueable point, yes, but it depends on what sources you look at.

"The first Jews to call themselves Kabalists were the Tanaiim, who lived in Jerusalem about the beginning of the third century B.C. "

"Many scholars are convinced, for three reasons, that the Essenes accept reincarnation. First, they have high regard for the Jewish Kabala, in which reincarnation is taught as a basic belief. The earliest known Jews to call themselves Kabalists are the Tanaiim who reside in Jerusalem during the early third century B.C.E. Second, the Essenes come under the influence of Buddhist monks who travel, in great numbers, throughout the Middle East during the centuries before Jesus’ birth. Reincarnation is basic to Buddhism. Third, the Essenes’ doctrines and communal practices reflect a knowledge of the Pythagoreans, who are reincarnationists"

Again, its debateable, but I don't think anyone has definitively refuted these possibilities.

Like it or not, archaeology has shown us that over a 1000 years before the Bible was written, there was a story about a man named Adam, who lost the chance of attaining eternal life through the machinations of a 'lesser god' who made a garden of Eden and who was praised in his hymns as a "great serpent dragon of heaven". Mere coincidence?

Clearly there must be a connection between these two stories, and might not the Sumerian version be more accurate than the Hebrew one? Certainly the one written down at least 1000 years earlier might be more accurate than the version finally wrtten down after being itold and retold around the campfires of illiterate hebrew shepherds for centuries?

Nor did the Jews even identify their 'serpent' with a 'devil'. They only seemed content to vilify serpents becasue as shepherd folk, they took a toll on their livestock and were a constant danger. Much later, and only temporarily would the Jews see the serpent as a devil, as most Christians sects would later on, but both, only becasue of the influence of dualistic Persian Zoroastrian and its devil-dragon Ahriman who became the Christian Satan, right down to being bound, and cast into the abyss.

it still demonstrates that Judaism started exploring the spirit world, something, expressely forbidden by God. But then God had already abandoned Israel at this time and they were desperate to find out why. They just dug themselves into a deeper hole, Most Rabbis of this time rejected such approaches until around the 12th century as I said before.


...........Much of your last post I find really no fault with, and though I don't necessarily agree with all of it, find no cause to question any of your logic, other than this. Is seeking a mystical experience with God digging oneself into a hole? How is it wrong for a displaced nation to seek union with their provider? The words God had 'already abandoned Israel' I find particularly disturbing. They are the chosen people, are they not? It is my view that God has NEVER abandoned them. He has always had His hand on them, even at their lowest. They could have been wiped out in the Holocaust. They were not. And the fact that Israel once again exists today, to me, is proof that God still acts in this world.

I don't see why it is wrong to 'explore the spirit world' frankly. It clearly exists. Why not seek it? I find many kabbahlistic meditations to be very beneficial spiritually. What about all the Christian mystics, for example? They essentially did the same thing. I mean, do you want to live a religious life, or do you want to KNOW God? You pray, right? That to me is mystical in and of itself.

I really dont see the wrong in using spiritual gifts....short of summoning demons, and using ouiji and cards etc...
which I would never of course.
As long as one doesnt go that route, I dont think its going aganist the Lord.

If Jesus gave his gifts to his disciples to use, then why would it be bad now? All good comes from him, so why would we have it now too if its bad? I feel its all in how its used, and remembering where it came from and being thankful.

One cant help having what they have.... Should we assume that one is "of the devil" because they have the gift?

I think that having it reassures us that we are spiritual, we are of God and the spirit because it is within us, and its there....Nothing we can do about it. It brings us closer to the Light and the good from which it comes...
____________________________________________________________

""""Involving yourself in mysticism is more a craving of trying to know and see what is not given to us (by Gods word) to know. It is our pleasure to be taken to that world under Gods wing, it is not our place to seek it without Gods leave."""

Jorel, I agree that "seeking" thru use of ouiji etc is wrong.....but what do you do when you are given the gift??? When its within you, and you cant help it? its just there.......

Yes, thats exactly what I mean... theres a difference between looking for it...and already having it, which that I dont think is bad.... its a gift. But must be used for good.


Thanks...can you explain the other charasmatic gifts of the Holy Spirit.....

I'll respond in the red for sake of keeping me straight

This forum has actually been a very positive outlet for me; because in everyday life these are topics I seldom get to discuss with others, yet it is something very central to my being, something I myself, am very focused on. Spirituality and the paranormal. A large aspect of who I am as a person.

I agree, it has for me too, although you always encounter the non-beleiver argument..... I very much enjoy speaking with you Brahman because you understand....

"Jesus himself said that he would bring a sword between people, that by following him we would lose much of what is precious to us. Seperation of families and friends, etc...
Jesus drew a line in the sand, so to speak and in so doing, demonstrated that there are boundries that we as christians do not cross. Not all things are acceptable in his sight and seeking the spirit world is not seeking God. Involving yourself in mysticism is more a craving of trying to know and see what is not given to us (by Gods word) to know. It is our pleasure to be taken to that world under Gods wing, it is not our place to seek it without Gods leave."
I agree, while I dont personally advocate use of the ouiji board because it opens a portal too wide to control what comes in. In my opinion it is usually the lower level spirits that use that as a means of contact, because it is easier for them. They are not as educated as the others and thus it seems to attract the bottom of the barrel so to speak....So that is why I personally choose to stay away from it....Thats why I dont seek, I let it come......

"""Seek a broader, more personal understanding and experience of God. ......why is so much of this directed OUTWARD? Where is the introspection? The INNER journey? Is that not just as important?""""

My feelings too....I agree.....To me its the inner core or spirit of ourselves that allows us to live..it is the inner being that is what we are to expand and enrich with knowledge....


When I said "I really dont see the wrong in using spiritual gifts....short of summoning demons, and using ouiji and cards etc...
which I would never of course. As long as one doesnt go that route, I dont think its going aganist the Lord."

"""""......Wow. You and I actually disagree somewhat on that one. ( I know, we are usually on the same page) I don't use ouija boards (but I am a paranormal investigator with a professional group, who doesn't do any of that nonsense or use sensitives....so I do hunt ghosts!) furthermore, I also use tarot cards on occasion and have gotten very accurate readings from them. Well I guess that should be obvious since my new signature image is the hermit card from the ryder waite deck lol. I also believe in astrology, numerology, and things like birth charts. If either of you actually want to hear WHY I am into those type of activities just let me know which ones you're curious about and I'll expand on it in a later post.""""""

Im not really against the cards as much as the board, but I dont go there.... but if it doesnt come to me, I dont look for it... But as for the board....I wont go there for reasons stated above....Although I can protect myself, I just dont feel comfortable.
It scares me.


"When the gift is out of your control, you will also tend to make your decisions based on your own judgement, it is this part that is most dangerous because we cannot judge such things with our human rationalle, it is here that the Holy Spirit will provide you with one of his gifts, the Discerning of spirits or Distinguishing of spirits (human, angelic, and demonic)."

I dont know whos statement this was, but I dont agree...The "gift" is never out of our control because it was given to us by HIM. The messages arrive just as He wants us to get them... And if not paying attention, I get nagged until I "get it". As far as my personal decisions, I still follow my heart, but its a different feeling. Hard to explain the difference, but it is.


""""If your faith is strong, you can stand firm on the rock, yes?"""""
Absolutly!!


"Thanks...can you explain the other charasmatic gifts of the Holy Spirit....." Thanks Jorel



""""""......To me there is so much more to it than this. Again, not discrediting Him. But your soul is eternal. You have lived many lives before this one; and important traits of those will carry on to later incarnations in the form of 'gifts'. Ever wonder how a 4 year old can play Chopin on the piano masterfully when he can't even read the music? Its probably because he played the piano in a previous life and is expanding upon that ability. I am a writer. From an early age I had a 'wild imagination'......and that's probably because I was a writer in a past life. The same goes for other abilities. If you have gifts, yes, some of them most certainly are from the HS, but a good number of your talents and abilities probably come from previous incarnations."""""

This is why I cherish you! We agree on many aspects and I treasure the talks we have... You are enlightened and having the experiences of knowing there is more than what most know, or read, or have experienced....It is very difficult to relate or expect understanding when there is skeptism and disbeleif, although I certainly can respect and understand why some feel that way...

Our past lives do absolutely effect who we are today in this one... Each I feel effects who and what we are today.....Just as the example you gave about the 4yo playing Chopin.

I also use tarot cards on occasion and have gotten very accurate readings from them. Well I guess that should be obvious since my new signature image is the hermit card from the ryder waite deck lol. I also believe in astrology, numerology, and things like birth charts.

Basic Tarot Meaning

Represented by Virgo, the Hermit is a card of introspection, analysis and, well, virginity. This is not a time for socializing; the card indicates, instead, a desire for peace and solitude. Nor is it a time for action, discussion or decisions. It is a time to think, organize, ruminate, and take stock. There may be feelings of frustration and discontent during this time of withdrawal. But such times lead to enlightenment, illumination, clarity.

In regards to people, the Hermit represents a wise, inspirational person, friend, teacher, therapist, someone the Querent usually sees alone, someone the rest of the Querent's friends and family may not know about. This a person who can shine a light on things that were previously mysterious and confusing. They will help the Querent find what it is they are seeking.
________________________________

Very wise choice for you honey!!! It represents you well

Lol thank you. Ironic that the hermit card is represented by Virgo, which is, of course, my sign. Yeah, I really like talking with you on here too. Kindred spirits. Its rare you find people that think so far out of the box. Most people I know are bound by their dogmas; stirctly orthodox in their faith, or lackthereof. My life has been so full of introspection, philosophic, spiritual and scholarly pursuits that I'm basically this armchair philosopher lacking in practicality. I can debate all night long about the nature of God; but if I get a flat tire, I'm in trouble haha.

We really are kindred spirits, I read your posts and think, damn I would have said that. "knowing there is more than what most know, or read, or have experienced..." I mean this is dead on. The problem with religion is that people join into a system of belief, they study that belief, and are taught about that belief......and then they stop there. As if you can limit God to YOUR OWN PERCEPTION OF SAME. The conscious mind is so systematic in all things; that we seldom seek out beyond our own realm of perception. It leads into that classic arguement....what is truth? Because you perceive something to be true, in your own mind, is it? Dogma.

"My feelings too....I agree.....To me its the inner core or spirit of ourselves that allows us to live..it is the inner being that is what we are to expand and enrich with knowledge"

......This is so true. Sooo true. You know, I was actually going to school to become a minister. But I ended up leaving, because I started questioning my own supposed beliefs. What I was taught. You see, God brought me out of it too, because I was not in the correct capacity to truly serve. Everything I projected was outward, and driven by the ego. Yes, I preached a good sermon today. Yes, I know these theologies well. I tricked myself into thinking it was Holy Spirit work, but it wasn't, it was my own ego. That whole time I didn't know myself well enough to see the forest for the trees. It wasn't until I discovered Buddhism that I finally began looking INWARD, at taming the ego. I would have never made a good minister because I was to caught up in thinking I was doing the RIGHT thing. Oscar Wilde says 'know thyself.' Well I didn't. I'm not sure I'm making sense. Basically, what I'm saying is, I was doing all the right things outwardly, and as a result, thought I was doing the right thing inwardly. But I wasn't. I didn't even know myself. It took years to get where I am now.

So you go through all the motions. You live the religious life. But do you know yourself? Do you truly know God, see? That is the problem.


Btw I too agree with you about ouija boards, I have used them in the past, some good experiences, and others rather.....bad....lets just say. You are right; spirits inhabiting the lower planes would come through in droves, its like opening a doorway, and you have no idea who, or how many are going to come in. It is dangerous. Should be avoided.

.....I've really enjoyed being a part of this forum. Everyone seems really cool, and there are some wonderful, highly spirited debates. I've noticed, lately, in my own posts that I've been commenting quite a bit on various threads about the origins, and the fall of man. Each debate is different, some are evolution vs. creationism, others are heartfelt questions, such as, if there is a God why did He create us to suffer? And the ever raging debate of free will vs. predestination. If you search through some of my recent posts you'll see that I'm almost repeating myself in certain cases. That is precisely why I've decided to start my own cohesive thread, on what I believe, to be more or less, the story of our beginings. I invite anyone of any belief to share their opinions based on what I have shared, or your own opinions on our spiritual as well as physical origins.

This is an extract from the Edgar Cayce readings, and IMHO, offers very deep insight into who we really are and where we came from. Even if you don't agree with it, however, I think you can learn certain things from it......I realize its really long, but bear with me. Its a good read.

"People usually demand a beginning, so in the beginning there was a sea of spirit and it filled all of space. The spirit was static, content, and aware of itself. It was a giant resting on the bosom of its thought and contemplating what it is.

Then the spirit moved into action. It withdrew into itself until all of space was empty. In the center, the restless mind of the spirit shone. This was the beginning of the individuality of the spirit. This was what the spirit discovered itself to be when it awakened. This spirit was God.

God desired self-expression and desired companionship; therefore, God projected the cosmos and souls. The cosmos was built with music, arithmetic, geometry, harmony, system, and balance. The building blocks were all of the same material - the life essence.

Each design carried within it the plan for its evolution.

Everything assumed its design in various forms and their activity resulted in the law of attraction and repulsion. All forms would attract and repel each other in their evolutionary dance.

All things are a part of God and an expression of God's thought. The Mind of God was the force which propelled and perpetuated these thoughts. All minds, as thoughts of God, do everything God imagined. Everything that came into being is an aspect of the One Mind.

The souls of individuals were created for companionship with God (the Whole). The pattern that God used to create souls was the pattern of God's own Spirit. The spirit is life. From the spirit, the mind builds patterns. From the mind, the physical creation is the result. This is how the spirit, the mind, and individuality, became the pattern for souls. This is how cause, action, and effect became the pattern for everything. First there was the spirit (the first cause); then there was the action which withdrew spirit into itself; then there was the resulting individuality of God.

The spirit of the individual existed before their soul was created. The spirit keeps the knowledge of its identity with God. The soul has the ability to experience the activities of the mind in a manner separate from God.

Thus, new individuals issued from God and remained dependent upon God; but individuals were also aware of an existence apart from God. Individuals were given the power to choose and direct their own activity. Without free will, it would only remain a part of the individuality of God. The mind, issuing as a force from God, would naturally fulfill God's thoughts, unless directed otherwise. The power to do this - to direct the force of mind individually from God - is free will. And the record or memory of this freedom is the soul. The soul began with its first expression of free will through the force of mind. The first thought that the spirit generated of free will (i.e., the first diversion of the force of mind from its normal path of unity with God) was the beginning of the soul.

The nucleus of the soul was the balance of positive and negative forces that are equal in power. These forces produce harmonious activities: the positive initiating, impregnating, and thrusting forward; the negative receiving, nourishing, and ejecting. The steps of this evolutionary process are also the stages of the thought process: perception, reflection, and opinion.

Thus, the soul consists of two states of consciousness: (1) the spirit which bears a knowledge of its identity with God, and (2) the soul which bears a knowledge of everything it experienced.

The plan for the soul is a cycle of experience that is unlimited in scope and duration. Through this evolutionary cycle, the soul will come to know the creation in all its aspects at the discretion of the will. The cycle would be completed when the desire of the will was no longer different from the thought of God. The consciousness of the soul would then merge with its spiritual consciousness of its identity with God. Then the soul will return to its source as the companion it was intended to be.

As a companion, the soul would remain conscious of its separate individuality and would be aware of its own free will as it now acted as a part of God, but not diverting its mind because it was in agreement with God's influence on the mind of the soul. Until this state of at-one-ment was reached, the soul would not be a companion in the true sense of the word.

The idea that returning to God means a loss of individuality is paradoxical, since God is aware of everything that happens and must therefore be aware of the consciousness of each individual. The return of the soul is the return of the image to that which imagined it. The consciousness of the individual - its soul record - could not be destroyed without destroying a part of God. When a soul returns to God it becomes aware of itself not only as a part of God, but as a part of every other soul, and everything.

What is lost is the ego - the desire to do other than the desire of God. When the soul returns to God, the ego is voluntarily relinquished. This is the symbology behind the crucifixion of Christ.

The plan for the soul included experiencing of all creation, but it did not necessarily mean participating in all forms and substance. Nor did it mean that souls can interfere with the creation. Nor did it mean that souls are to spin their own little worlds, twisting and bending laws to make images of their dreams.

But these things could happen. The soul was the greatest thing that God made because it has free will. Once free will was given, God did nothing to curb it. However it acted, it had to act within God's reality. By whatever route, the soul will return to God.

The fact that the human body is a speck of dust on a small planet in a universe of galaxies can lead to the illusion that humans are a small creation. But the soul is the unlimited activity of the mind and the grandeur of imagination.

At first there was little difference between the consciousness of the new individual (i.e., soul) and its consciousness of identity with God (i.e., spirit). Souls merely watched the flow of the Mind, somewhat as people daydreaming, marveling at its power and versatility. Then souls began to act itself, imitating and paralleling what Mind was doing. Gradually souls acquired experience, becoming a complementary rather than an imitative force. It helped to extend, modify, and regulate creation.

Certain souls became aggressive with their own power and began to experiment with it. They mingled with the dust of the stars and the winds of the spheres - feeling them - and becoming part of them. One result of this was an unbalance between the positive and negative forces. To feel things demanded the negative force. To express through things (and directing and managing them) required the positive force. Another result of souls becoming aggressive with their own power was the gradual weakening of the link between the two states of consciousness (i.e., spirit and the soul). Some souls became more concerned with and aware of their own creations rather than God's. This resulted in the fall of certain souls to an even lower consciousness. The Bible allegorically refers to this event as the Fall in the Garden of Eden and the revolt of the angels in the Book of Revelation. This event is also the basis for the cosmology of Christian Gnosticism and Jewish mysticism.

To enter into another level of creation and become part of it, the soul had to assume a new, or third consciousness - a physical form. Assuming a physical form is a way of experiencing that level of creation by means of a conscious mind (i.e., the third consciousness). Through the conscious mind, an individual can experience physical consciousness: the physical body, the five senses, the glandular and nervous systems. This transformation of consciousness does not apply everywhere at this level of creation. In other worlds and solar systems, the transformation may differ. One can only imagine the number of these other worlds and the aspects of divine mind which they represent.

When a soul enters into another level of creation and its consciousness, it separated itself temporarily from the consciousness of its own soul, and became even further removed from the consciousness of its spirit. Thus, instead of helping to direct the flow of creation and contributing to it, the soul found itself in the stream and drifting along with it. The farther the soul traveled from the shore, the more it succumbed to the pull of the current and the more difficult was the task of getting back to land.

The earth is an expression of Divine Mind with its own laws, its own plan, and its own evolution. Souls, longing to feel the beauty of the seas, the winds, the forest, and the flowers, mixed with them and expressed themselves through them. They also mingled with the animals, and made thought forms in imitation of them. Souls played at creating and imitated God. But this interfered with the evolutionary plan of the earth. Thus, the stream of mind that was carrying out this plan for the earth gradually drew souls into its current. Souls had to evolve into the bodies they had themselves created.

This entanglement of souls into physical form was a probability from the beginning. But God did not know when it would happen until the souls, of their own free will, had caused it to happen.

All souls that exist were created by God in the very beginning. None has been made since. This means all souls on this planet, pre-existed before birth.

A way to liberate the souls that were entangled in matter was created. A physical form became available as a vehicle for the soul on earth. A way became available for souls to enter the earth and experience it as part of their evolutionary/reincarnation cycle. Of the physical forms already existing on earth, a species of anthropoid ape most nearly approached the necessary pattern. Souls descended on these apes - hovering above and about them rather than inhabiting them - and influenced them to move toward a different goal from the simple one they had been pursuing. They came down out of the trees, built fires, made tools, lived in communities, and began to communicate with each other. Eventually they lost their animal look, shed bodily hair, and took on refinements of manner and habit.

The evolution of the human body occurred partly through the soul's influence on the endocrine glands until the ape-man was a three-dimensional objectification of the soul that hovered above it. Then the soul fully descended into the body and earth had a new inhabitant: the homo sapien.

The problem for the soul entangled in flesh was to overcome the attractions of the earth to the extent that the soul would be as free in the body as out of it. Only when the body was no longer a hindrance to the free express of the soul would the cycle of earth be finished. This is the condition of having a perfect unity of the human with the divine.

In a smaller field, this was the evolutionary drama of free will and creation. In a still smaller field, each atom of the physical body is a world in itself where a drama of free will and creation is occurring. The soul brings life into each atom, and each atom is a physical reflection of the soul's pattern.

The plan for the earth cycle of souls was a limited series of incarnations with periods in between of dwelling in other heavenly dimensions of consciousness. Reincarnation would continue until a soul's every thought and action of the physical body was in accord with the plan originally laid out for the soul (i.e., a human-divine unity, Christ consciousness). When the body was no longer a hindrance to the free expression of the soul - when the conscious mind had merged with the subconscious, the earth cycle was finished and the soul liberated to move on to new adventures. This conquest of the physical body could not be attained until there was perfection in the other dimensions of consciousness that is a physical representation of our solar system. Astrologically, the goal for the soul is to attain a level of consciousness that represents the total expression of the sun and its planets. Whichever level of consciousness that the soul assumes, it becomes the focal point of activity. The other states of consciousness receded to the position of urges and influences.

The human race was fostered by a soul who had completed his experience of creation, attained Christhood, returned to God, and became a companion to God and a co-creator. This is the soul known as Jesus. The first evolutionary transformation of ape-men to homo sapiens is who the Bible refers to as "Adam". This was the beginning of the divine consciousness into flesh on the earth. The soul known as Jesus, was one of the first souls to enter into one of the Adamic races.

The soul of Jesus was interested in the plight of its fellow souls trapped in earth. After supervising the influx of souls into flesh, the Christ soul took form itself, from time to time, to act as a leader for the people.

At first, these souls just slightly inhabited the bodies of ape-men while remembering their true identities as spirit beings. But gradually, after many incarnations, these souls descended even further into physical consciousness and the result was a decrease in their spiritual mentality. They remembered their true selves only in dreams and in fables that were handed down from one generation to another. Religion came into being as a ritual of longing for lost spirit memories. The arts were born which included music and geometry. This knowledge was brought into the world from incoming souls who gradually forgot their heavenly source. This knowledge had to be written down, learned, and taught to each new generation.

Finally, humans were left with a conscious mind that was separated from their own individuality as souls. This individual identity as a soul became the subconscious mind. The individual identity or awareness of the physical world became the conscious mind. The subconscious mind (i.e., the soul) influenced the conscious mind and gave it its stature and quality. The subconscious mind dwelt in the "suit of clothes" that is the physical body and only in sleep is it disrobed.

Conscious minds, left to its own influence, will work out the plans and desires of God. Humans eventually developed theories for what they felt was true, but no longer knew to be true. The result was the creation of philosophy and theology. Humans searched and discovered higher knowledge which they carried within themselves but could no longer reach with the conscious mind. This resulted in the creation of science.

Humans evolved from having an awareness of higher spirit knowledge to having only mystical dreams, revealed religions, philosophy and theology. This evolution of consciousness ultimately reached a plateau and humans generally only believed what they could see and feel and prove in terms of their conscious minds. Then humanity began the struggle of regaining this higher knowledge.

Meanwhile, the Christ soul continued to teach and lead humanity by incarnating as the Biblical characters named Adam, Enoch, and Melchizedek. Enoch and Melchizedek experienced neither birth nor death. Then Christ soul realized after these incarnations that it was necessary to give humanity a pattern by which they could follow in order to return to God. The Christ soul achieved this goal by incarnating as the personality known as Jesus, who became victorious over the death of the physical body by laying aside the ego, accepting the crucifixion of the body in order to return to God. Jesus created a pattern for humans to follow. Through the acts of leading a perfect life and becoming unjustly killed, this reversed the negative karma (i.e., the law of God, an eye for an eye) which came from Jesus' first incarnation as Adam.

Every person's life is shaped to some extent by karma: their own, their associates, their loved ones, their nation, their race, and the entire world itself. But karma is not greater than free will. It is what a person does with these influences and urges, how they react to them, which makes the difference in their soul development. Because of karma, some things are more probable than others, but as long as there exists free will, anything is possible.

Thus free will and predestination coexist within human beings. Their past experiences limit them in probability and incline them in certain directions, but free will can always "draw the sword from the stone." The combination of free will and predestination means that humans freely choose their own predetermined