Hey everyone. I want to hear opinions whether religious, philosophic or scientific (preferably not religiously dogmatic) about a issue.

As science would agree, everything is made of energy (though I have heard that science still technically doesnt know what energy is, please correct me if I am wrong), and that when energy vibrates very quickly it is in the form of light and when slowly in the form of gross matter. OK. Well energy also according to science can never be destroyed or created but merely change form. My question is as follows:

Why does this supposedly eternal dance of energy that cant be destroyed but only change form aware of itself?

The universe it seems doesnt need to survive on the grounds that it is always the same universe but a different form from its constant fluctuations. Hence why does it take the form of awareness in various 'alive' forms that live more or less soley to survive?

I am aware that from a creatures perspective they are driven to perpetuate the speices and pass on their genes but from a universe point of view it makes absolutely no difference whether such speices survive or not because the quantity of energy is the same.

We could say that humans who are more rational creatures are atoms or energy aware that they are atoms or energy. Why does the universe in the form of sentient beings at least (and maybe others or maybe the universe itself is completely aware?) need to be aware of itself?

Einstein puts it well:

The most incomprehensible fact about the universe is that it is comprehensible. --Albert Einstein

We are energy, the Universe is energy, so I do believe the Universe is sentient and is aware. It is also aware of us as we are aware of a cell in our own A hole.

As far as I see it we would have to have a better understanding of black holes for this to make sense. Simply because of the reason that right now it seems that energy CAN be destroyed in such a place. That or the energy simply is located to another place which would require us to find white holes or multiverses as means of explaining that.

My argument would be (and has been for some time) That the very nature of sentience gives it certain qualities. One of those qualities is self awareness. Thus any sentient organism including the universe, if it is sentient, would be aware of itself and its surrounding environment, but more particularly, aware of the difference between itself and everything which is not itself.

I don't think I've ever heard black holes actually destroy energy.

In Yoga they have an interesting theory. Quite simply matter and energy are the same just vibrating at different frequencies , but energy can vibrate fast enough and become another form of matter.

Basicly they believe that matter - energy - Mind. To back up this assumption they point to the fact that energy sometimes behaves like it has mind. eg. in an electrical circuit the electricity automatically follows the path of least resistance.

Basicly each higher form of matter exerts influence on the one below it. Consciousness is supposedly above Mind ( I am not sure weather the theory is that it is seperate from mind or weather it is the fourth form of matter) and influences mind which influences energy which influences matter.

This is how evolution occurred according to the theory , because consciousness is forever looking for a better vehicle for expression. Remember also that each kind of matter has different sub - kinds(for lack of a better word) like gas - solid - liquid. Instinctive mind - Intellect - spiritual mind/intuition(not religious).

It could be that every atom contains all these kinds of matter within itself in different dimensions.
Although it is only a theory of Yoga (Yogi Ramacharaka ) it is interesting to note that these philosophers knew intuitively that that everything is connected and that one principle lies behind all.

(Like Hydrogen one atom can make all the elements we know if grouped in a different way for each element)

Excellent question BNW.

I believe we are aware. We are just unaware how to retrieve this awareness.

To answer your questions as best as I can I will use metaphor BNW. The body is composed of much energy, be it in the form of flesh or synaptic impulse. What is more important though might be the beating heart it houses, or even more important is the spirit and soul within. In this way the whole of the observable universe is just the shell and it is all of life on Earth that is the beating heart and it is humanity specifically that is the spirit and soul of the universe. It was made for us. Consider this dominionism, not the political kind, if one wishes but we must take care of the environment. Just as a drowned spirit and corrupt soul can kill the heart which in turn will kill the body, so we also have the terrible potential to destroy the environment, one on a micro level the other on a macro level, and neither should be welcomed.

Imo differences are conditionings based in judgements( fears alot of times) .. kids do not even trip on differences until they are taught too....

Why not?

Consider the size of the Universe in relation to the size of the sentient beings. The Universe, as a whole is non-sentient.

Why do sentient creatures exist? Because survival increases with the ability to process and predict the rest of the Universe.

In short, there's no need. Just cause and effect.

Unless all energy is conscious.



How does our existence with our abilities increase the survival of the universe itself considering the universe is eternal indestructable energy?



How do we know there is no need? If there is no need then why does it exist?

Yeah? Well in my nsho, a lot of differences are real, and a kid ( or any one else) who cant distinguish up from down, left from right, or a domestic cat from an african lion, is going to experience some seriously real difficulties in life.

That is not to deny that we need to be taught /conditioned to appreciate these differences , but they do exist independent of our conditioning. The conditioning is necessary for safe passage through our world.

Sometimes (and this is a value judgement), supra i think you pick an argument which doesnt really exist, either because you think you must, or because it is a natural reaction from a philosopher.

My point was that one of the first observable reactions of sentience (from human experience) is an awareness of, and a reaction to, the fact that, that very sentience lives an existence which interacts with, but is independent of all the world around it. ie awareness of self, as differentiated from all else.

Since we for obvious reasons can't know what happens to the energy that enters across the event horison we can't say if black holes destroy energy or not. As I said if we located white holes or a multiverse then we might know where the energy went but until we have a greater understanding of black holes we can't know and hense not assume energy can't be destroyed as we most definitely won't see the energy come back from being sucked in no?

It is now believed that black holes store energy and record matter like a tape recorder.

Why would energy be concious?


Survival in this current state - the survival or extinction of any small given form doesn't effect the overall survival of the Universe.


I ask myself the same question about Rap music.

I will answer these solely from a metaphysical stance Tiggs so there is nothing scientific about my responses.

Energy might be conscious because according to the Bible even the rocks praise God (paraphrased).

What if the Universe was designed to be our house, not one we have to maintain of course, we do the planet or at least not damage it, but my main point is what good is a house if no one is there to live in it?

And is English rap music worse than American rap music lol?

But meh just offering another perspective not really debating your post because I understand exactly where you are coming from with your first two comments. The better question might be why are we conscious at all? Yes, I know the standard response is sheer luck.

The idea of energy being concious depends on your definition of conciousness, I suppose. It certainly doesn't seem to exhibit free will.

The house idea - due to it's continual expansion, a lot of the Universe is already outside of our sphere of influence, even travelling at the speed of light. What's the point of building a hotel and locking us into the bathroom of one of the small suites?

British Rap music worse than American? - Your honour, let me present exhibit A.

Why are we concious? Ehn. Sheer luck is the standard response, but I'd go with inevitability.

If it was conscious I doubt it has free will. Maybe like plants it does have intelligence. Not sure if that transcends into consciousness. But like plants I am confident of at least one point and that is we can manipulate energy as we do plants even though that is just my theory.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/n...ie_intelligence

As for the house idea maybe human life requires all the extra space. Has there been any studies that show how small of a vacuum, how much of space, would actually be required to sustain human life, that is assuming all this is just for us? Maybe when we consider everything that the Universe must contain including all of time it requires such a vast space and it might appear empty to us but it might serve a purpose. How hot would the sun get in a smaller space? How big would the after effects of the big bang have to get for an explosion big enough to create human life? How would life be affected if there were no other stars besides the sun? Just brainstorming, nothing serious.

Eh, the British rap music is better than current American rap.

We are energy and we are conscious. As to answer your question I dont know.


Exactly. So why then does some forms of the universe at least need to be conscious? What does the universe as a whole get out of it if it isnt needed in any way for its survival?



Anyways.....we are back to square one.

Exhibit "A" was one of the scariest things I've seen on UM so far...

Again back to the beginning...