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crystal sage

Jun 6 2008, 12:52 AM

A couple of years ago I came across some ancient tales of Earth before the moon was born... also ancient tales that referred to world having two moons...

..Been thinking again... Reading about old references to Mar's two moons... could they be the ancient memories of 'people'..alien immigrants' referring to their time on the land of two moons... Mars?

The evidence the author of these findings used ancient recorded knowledge of the planets that omitted the moon.. and other legends relics.. where they they referred to a second moon..

can't find the site again yet ..

but I do recall it being quite interesting reading...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/325290.stm

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/mars/bartjordan_1.html

but then NASA think that Earth once had 3 moons!!!

QUOTE

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354598,00.html

Jack J. Lissauer of NASA's Ames Research Center near Mountain View, Calif., and John E. Chambers of the Carnegie Institution of Washington figure quite a bit of that ejected matter would have recollected into two other small moons at the so-called "Lagrangian points" or "Trojan points."

Those are fixed places in the Moon's orbit around the Earth where the gravity of both large bodies would keep smaller objects in stable positions.

However, researchers Jack J. Lissauer of NASA's Ames Research Center near Mountain View, Calif., and John E. Chambers of the Carnegie Institution of Washington figure quite a bit of that ejected matter would have recollected into two other small moons at the so-called "Lagrangian points" or "Trojan points."

Those are fixed places in the Moon's orbit around the Earth where the gravity of both large bodies would keep smaller objects in stable positions.

QUOTE

http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg19...s-on-earth.html

The moon is widely thought to have formed after an object roughly the size of Mars crashed into the Earth 4.5 billion years ago, throwing up a cloud of debris that eventually coalesced into a rocky sphere

seax

Jun 6 2008, 01:20 AM

Hello Sage,

I have read recently that the Earth did at one time have 2 moons. I saw a video on utube where NASA supposedly had photos taken by one of their people that traveled on an alien craft that went backward in time and they took photos of the earth and two moons. I didn't say I believed it- but the two moon story is really going around now.

best regards,
seax

crystal sage

Jun 6 2008, 03:28 AM

QUOTE (seax @ Jun 6 2008, 11:20 AM)

I

http://www.ufoarea.com/aas_incredibleiapetus.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xJK4MFzVgA

http://www.enterprisemission.com/NPC-Russia.htm

Wallydraigle

Jun 6 2008, 06:54 AM

If the impact theory is correct, then the earth almost certainly had two moons for at least a little while. You see the same effect that would have created the moon when you drip milk into the bowl. The drop impacts the surface and ejects a smaller drop outward. But in space when a sphere of fluid is struck in this way, a drop is ejected from the impact point, and then the waves from the impact travel across the sphere and do the same thing on the other side, just not as large. Who knows what might have happened to the other moon. It might not have lasted very long, either falling back into the earth or perhaps the two fused together after a collision.

seax

Jun 7 2008, 01:06 AM

Hello Sage,

I noticed one of the videos you left a link to concerned Richard Hoagland. I have listened to his theory on Cydonia, and his theory on rotation and the energies created by a rotating sphere. What is your opinion of Mr. Hoagland's theories if you are familiar with them? Anyone else is also welcome to a comment.

thanks
seax

bee

Jun 7 2008, 07:04 PM

QUOTE (crystal sage @ Jun 6 2008, 04:28 AM)

http://www.ufoarea.com/aas_incredibleiapetus.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xJK4MFzVgA

http://www.enterprisemission.com/NPC-Russia.htm

QUOTE (seax @ Jun 7 2008, 02:06 AM)

I first came across Richard Hoagland on the Project Camelot site....>>>>>HERE
He is being interviewed...and they are very good interviews.

I've now seen/heard a lot of him on You Tube etc. as well.

I really rate him highly....I was stunned by his data and work on the glass structures on the moon.

seax

Jun 8 2008, 04:48 AM

Hello bee,

Hope you are well.

I have read a book on anomalies on the moon that Mr. Hoagland had a lot of influence in. The book was written by I believe it was David Childress, he is a little out there on some things but I believe he may be on track with the claims in the book at least a good part.

Mr. Hoagland has a theory that rotating spheres create an enery which he claims is hyperdimensional. the basis to his theory is that the rotation of the sphere creates an energy if diagramed creates a tetrahedron which would of course be circumscribed by the sphere. He points out that at about 17.2 degrees where the points of the base of the tetrahedron touch the sphere, energy is released. He points out that most volcanic activity on the earth is about at that longitude. the Hawallian islands being a good example. A steel ball rotated will fly higher and fall faster when released than one not rotating.
Pretty interesting stuff. He is ridiculed by mainstream science, but they feel like they have a monopoly on it anyway. His theory on Cydonia on Mars,
the face and city, well some of it I see and some I don't. But like you I rate him highly.

Thanks for the reply,
stay in touch
seax

Invader Skoodge

Jun 8 2008, 09:57 PM

QUOTE (crystal sage @ Jun 6 2008, 02:52 AM)

A couple of years ago I came across some ancient tales of Earth before the moon was born... also ancient tales that referred to world having two moons...

It's interesting to think about.
While, according to the time scale given in the FOXNews article you quoted, even the smallest of the trojan moons which formed at the same time as the Moon left their orbits not later than the paleoarchean era, other trojans may have formed at any later time. Maybe the impact which created the South Pole-Aitken basin at the far side of the Moon led to the formation of a temporary second moon. At a diameter of 3500 km (source) the South Pole-Aitken basin is the second largest known impact crater in the solar system.

Even without actual trojan moons, the Lagrange points L4 and L5 gather large clouds of dust, known as the Kordylewski clouds. According to Wikipedia

QUOTE

It is thought by some that they could be a transient phenomenon as the L4 and L5 points are unstable, due to the perturbations of the inner planets.

So even though the Kordylewski clouds are very faint now they might have been very bright during periods in the past, like after large impacts on the Moon or comets passing close to the Earth-Moon system.

crystal sage

Jun 10 2008, 11:15 PM

and this article???

QUOTE

New 'moon' found around Earth
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2251386.stm

By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor
An amateur astronomer may have found another moon of the Earth. Experts say it may have only just arrived.

Much uncertainty surrounds the mysterious object, designated J002E3. It could be a passing chunk of rock captured by the Earth's gravity, or it could be a discarded rocket casing coming back to our region of space.

It was discovered by Bill Yeung, from his observatory in Arizona, US, and reported as a passing Near-Earth Object.

It was soon realised, however, that far from passing us, it was in fact in a 50-day orbit around the Earth.

How often do you think this happens???

Could they be

Trojans?.... a way for other extra terrestrials to travel in space by actually hopping from planetary orbits to planetary orbits.. disguised as giant meteors... moons... whilst studying the populations on various planets???

How easy would it be for the many moons from other planets supporting similar subterannean civilizations... using the giant asteroid as a protective shell?

Wow why haven't we thought of this before...?

or have we??

Could those earlier moons too have been observation stations??? mini subterranean cities..

Kind of like mini caravans .. to travel.. trade.. mine treasures from other planets...?

Can you imagine harvesting some of the moons satellites of various planets.. utilizing their natural caves.. lava tunnels... expanding working them to build subeterranean cities.. space stations... observation laboratories...

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/saturn/moons.html
linked-image

for their mother ship... space bus!!!

then using some form of magnetic or .. fusion energy.. to perhaps propel these satellites... moons ...into the orbits of their next planet of choice... or they could just use them as launching pads... docking stations... hotels.... supply stations...with little communities attached to them... for interspace travel..?

QUOTE

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sola...oon_991029.html

Earth has a second moon, of sorts, and could have many others, according to three astronomers who did calculations to describe orbital motions at gravitational balance points in space that temporarily pull asteroids into bizarre orbits near our planet.

The 3-mile-wide (5-km) satellite, which takes 770 years to complete a horseshoe-shaped orbit around Earth, is called Cruithne and will remain in a suspended state around Earth for at least 5,000 years. ....

For now, Namouni says there should be a new category of moons -- "temporary moons that are captured for a few thousand to several tens of thousands of years."

,, Could they be the homes of the biblical 'Watchers'!!!

http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/art...ew.asp?Post=186

crystal sage

Jun 10 2008, 11:27 PM

http://burtleburtle.net/bob/physics/cruithne.html

QUOTE

Cruithne

Here are some simulations of Cruithne, also known as asteroid 3753, or 1986 TO, or "Earth's second moon". Many thanks to Graeme Waddington who supplied the xyz coordinates of Cruithne and the planets as of February 26 2000, and Paul Wiegert, Kimmo Innanen, and Seppo Mikkola whose research is responsible for most of what we know about Cruithne. (The coordinates are embedded in this html file, they are parameters to the gravitational simulation applet.)

Cruithne is not really a moon, because Earth and Cruithne are not gravitationally bound. (Luna IS a real moon.) But Cruithne is locked into a 1::1 resonance with Earth. (Another resonance in the solar system is the 3::2 resonance of Neptune and Pluto. That means Neptune makes 3 orbits for every 2 of Pluto.) Cruithne's nearest pass to Earth is .1 AU (40 moon lengths), although right now it never comes closer than .3 AU. It is 5 kilometers (3 miles) wide.

Paul Wiegert says that two more asteroids in earth-resonant orbit have been found,

bee

Jun 10 2008, 11:41 PM

QUOTE (crystal sage @ Jun 11 2008, 12:15 AM)

and this article???

Just read the article..........Flippin' heck....what's going on??
The article was 11th September 2002....wonder if there's been anything
else about it....

QUOTE

Wow why haven't we thought of this before...?

or have we??

Could those earlier moons too have been observation stations??? mini subterranean cities..

Kind of like mini caravans .. to travel.. trade.. mine treasures from other planets...?

Can you imagine harvesting some of the moons satellites of various planets.. utilizing their natural caves.. lava tunnels... expanding working them to build subeterranean cities.. space stations... observation laboratories...

Taking that thought a step further....what if THE moon (our actual Moon) is what you've speculated...?

There is some stuff on the internet about the Moon maybe being an artificial satelite.....

QUOTE

,, Could they be the homes of the biblical 'Watchers'!!!

What an absolute LAUGH if they were/are....

crystal sage

Jun 11 2008, 03:51 AM

QUOTE

There is some stuff on the internet about the Moon maybe being an artificial satelite.....

Interesting point!!!!

this site is interesting!!!

http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon5.htm

linked-image

crystal sage

Jun 11 2008, 04:12 AM

It has been thought of!!!! ( Artificial Asteroids to house future populations)

QUOTE

http://www.archnewsnow.com/features/Feature8.htm

linked-image

Paolo Soleri: Asteromo, an artificial asteroid for a population of 70,000.

Spaceship Earth
http://reactor-core.org/operating-manual-f...ship-earth.html

QUOTE

http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Th...rticleshow/.cms

SPACE POWER | Another major attraction that space holds, is as a future mining field for harnessing energy. The earth's resources of energy are fast depleting. So, where do we look for alternative sources? Space, many scientists feel, is the answer. For instance, the area around earth is full of undiffused sunlight which is an excellent source of energy, that can be converted to electricity using semi-conductors. The surface of the moon also contains rich reserves of helium-3 which is regarded by researchers as the ideal fuel, since it is non-polluting and has virtually no by-products. In addition, asteroids have now become the latest target of space missions, since many asteroids are believed to contain valuable raw materials like gold, platinum, aluminum etc. Nasa's 'Dawn' spacecraft, for instance, recently left for Vesta and Ceres, two of the largest bodies in the asteroid belt a few days ago, to seek water-bearing minerals there. If the cost of launch and transportation drops significantly, space may just turn out to be the biggest minefield for earth.

QUOTE

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=22121

Perhaps the most indicative of things to come is a student moon mission slated to be launched in 2010 by the University of Stuttgart. It is being financed by German industrial concerns and the State of Baden-Württemberg. The latter, I am told, is funding this endeavor since they believe the moon will be parceled out for industrial development in the years ahead and they want to make sure they get their share! So while the United States and NASA are leading an endeavor which will involve cooperation with many nations, it will also involve entrepreneurial collaboration and competition.

THE VISION FOR SPACE EXPLORATION

Just a few weeks ago NASA announced our selection of Lockheed-Martin as the prime contractor for the Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle or "CEV." The CEV and the class of launch vehicles now being developed to carry it will be the basis for our spaceships to the Moon, Mars and Near Earth Asteroids.

The CEV will carry not only pioneering American astronauts but colleagues from other space-faring nations to the lunar station I mentioned in my introduction. Once there they will learn how to obtain useful resources such as oxygen from the lunar soil. This is the reason we are focusing initially on the moon. It's there – only three days journey from the earth that we will learn how to live off the land. This use of what's called "in situ resources" is the key to humanity's expansion throughout the solar system. Once we learn how to do this we can move out to Mars, Near-earth Asteroids and beyond.

http://www.sciencenetlinks.com/lessons.cfm?DocID=295

1.618

Jun 11 2008, 03:43 PM

Unfortunately... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J002E3

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/j002e3a.html

http://www.birtwhistle.org/GallerySatelliteJ002E3.htm

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2820

crystal sage

Jun 12 2008, 01:24 AM

QUOTE (mr nobody @ Jun , 01:43 AM)

Unfortunately... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J002E3

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/j002e3a.html

http://www.birtwhistle.org/GallerySatelliteJ002E3.htm

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2820

Space junk?

QUOTE

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/20...steryobject.htm

Chodas, a expert in planetary motion who has seen plenty of complicated orbits, says "I've never seen anything like this."

At first glance, J002E3 would seem to be from Apollo 14. That mission began in January of 1971, and according to Chodas' calculations J002E3 broke out of Earth orbit in March of the same year. There's a problem, though: NASA has accounted for all the big pieces of the Apollo 14 spacecraft. None are missing.

Chodas inventories the mission: On Jan. 31, 1971, a Saturn V rocket blasted off from Florida with Al Shepard, Ed Mitchell and Stuart Roosa inside. Two stages of the rocket fell back to Earth when they exhausted their fuel. A third stage, the S-IVB fuel tank and rocket engine, which propelled the crew from Earth-orbit toward the Moon, was likewise discarded. The S-IVB, however, did not fall back to Earth; it hit the Moon. Ground controllers guided it there on purpose to provide an impact for lunar seismic monitoring stations. The lunar module Antares was also deliberately crashed--more data for the seismic network. The command module Kitty Hawk returned the crew to Earth.

see captionJ002E3 couldn't be any of those things. "There is an outside chance that it might be one of the Spacecraft-Lunar Module Adapter (SLA) panels," adds Chodas, "although J002E3 appears to be too bright for one of those.

http://chem11.proboards2.com/index.cgi?boa...=448&page=5 All these stories of bits of Moon rock.. or Mars... or Mar's Moons falling to Earth... How are they shot into space??? and into our gravitational fields???

they must be some mighty volcanoes!!!

or are other asteroids etc... knocking bits off the Moon and Mars????

ORIGIN OF METEORITES; WERE THEY THROWN FROM ONCE-ACTIVE LUNAR VOLCANOES? THEY ALONE OF ALL KNOWN SOURCES HAD THE REQUISITE POWER TO HURL SUCH BODIES WITHIN THE SPHERE OF THE EARTH'S ATTRACTION -- THEY TRAVEL FOR AGES.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/...amp;oref=slogin

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=mYMAAA...2ZPRE&hl=en

Do bits of Earth...also fall towards the Moon... Mars???

crystal sage

Jun 12 2008, 01:29 AM

http://www.solarviews.com/eng/asteroid.htm

QUOTE

Asteroids are rocky and metallic objects that orbit the Sun but are too small to be considered planets. They are known as minor planets. Asteroids range in size from Ceres, which has a diameter of about 1000 km, down to the size of pebbles. Sixteen asteroids have a diameter of 240 km or greater. They have been found inside Earth's orbit to beyond Saturn's orbit. Most, however, are contained within a main belt that exists between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter. Some have orbits that cross Earth's path and some have even hit the Earth in times past. One of the best preserved examples is Barringer Meteor Crater near Winslow, Arizona.
One theory suggests that they are the remains of a planet that was destroyed in a massive collision long ago.

Could the resonance from our space explorations (the sudden change of displaced air pressure.. momentarily disrupting magnetic fields)caused a '
Butterfly Effect' and knocked a few asteroids out of their orbits?

Invader Skoodge

Jun 18 2008, 03:15 AM

QUOTE (crystal sage @ Jun 12 2008, 03:29 AM)

I wouldn't think so.

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/98/22/12342.pdf

QUOTE

Over the last two decades, there has come about a recognition that chaotic dynamics is pervasive in the solar system. We now understand
that the orbits of small members of the solar system—asteroids, comets, and interplanetary dust—are chaotic and undergo large changes
on geological time scales.

Orbits of asteroids are generally not stable. The gravity of the planets causes them to travel vast distances through the solar system. Some orbits are somewhat stabilized by orbital resonances with planets.

Space crafts do not destabilize the asteroid belt, because it already was instable.

Because the solar system is chaotic however, a space craft's flyby would have notable influence on where an asteroid will be a billion or so years later. But that's not like "knocking them out of their orbits." Asteroids might leave their orbits earlier, or later than they would if space exploration was absent.

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