No really you have to believe me! And when they spray over the cities those are not real chemtrails just figments of your imagination...

Don't look into this - its really important that you stay sick and ill please.



These are not Chemtrails folks pleeazze you have to believe me... (wink)(wink)





In case they try to knock or block the server here is the backup image. GET IT OUT TO EVERYBODY FOLKS, THIS GARBAGE HAS TO STOP.

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?qui...ocm&thumb=6

I think this belongs in a different section...
Guess they like to hide in plain sight, huh?

Yakhont-very interesting photo you've got there.
I'm glad there not realy doing it.

Cheers Karl

Wait, was he being sarcastic?

Yak, the first picture is, if I'm not mistaken, the Airbus A380 prototype loaded with water barrels to simulate payload during testing.
If they were using that to spread contrails, I think someone would probably have noticed.

MORE CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!!!

You may be correct 7,

But isn't it typical to publish such a photo, and refer not whatsoever to where it actually came from or what it shows?


As for the contrail photos, one wonders:


How many times do these simple occurrances have to be explained?

Hi 747400,

I believe it is actually the flight test of a Boeing 757, but I might be wrong. Here is the A380



In any case, as usual, it is complete <insert word of own choice here>.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for typo.

Here I guess it can be said to be a good practice, whereas source referencing is required in serious fields of research. But that would kinda ruin the story here;)



Very often, apparently .

Cheers,
Badeskov

Thanks...Can i bring our eyes back to the obvious again... Why are they doing this?

Maybe someone can correct me on this.

We are being Poisoned? Transformed? Disinfected? Shielded from the sun?




Being rational about this, the avoidance of the obvious stands out like a sore thumb. Those modern trails in the air dissapear after a long time. Vapour trails do not linger. No scientific evidence supports that vapour trails last more than a few seconds. Actually there is a video comparing more scientificly. The link follows. There is also stuff rarely seen online about chem trails. because of the suppression of chem trail details prevents mass panic, I suppose. Be scientificlly informed on the following video.



Go to the mind-deprogramming.com video setup (BOOKMARK THIS VIDI PLAYER LINKand watch con trail video #2 Aerosol crimes. Half way through that boring video you will witness the fiberous substance as it formed on the ground in parts of the USA. Like cotton wool. Also aired, is a special method of using a camcorder to view the invisible fibres in our air. They say the fibers are part organic.

Maybe we are witnessing the invasion of the body snatchers...




or maybe not..

I like "transformed".


(Irony of the week: )

You are wrong. The persistence of contrails depends upon temperature, relative humidity, and the vigor of mixing between the exhaust plume and the ambient air.

It is not unusual for contrails to spread and merge so that they cover a good portion of the sky with a filmy veil of ice crystals.

Sometimes the moisture and ice nuclei injected into the air by the jet engines can support the formation of natural cirrus, even if contrails didnt form initially, provided that a gentle uplift causes enough cooling for clouds to form.

In summary, there is no evidence that these "chemtrails" are other than expected, normal contrails from jet aircraft that vary in their shapes, duration, and general presentation based on prevailing weather conditions.

Baloney.

Contrails can disappear almost immediately, or linger for an hour or even much more...it all depends on the RH and winds aloft. It's simple, really. The more humid at a given altitude, like today for instance (I saw a connie sit there and virtually not change beyond its initial expansion for 20 minutes), the more it'll linger. The dryer, the shorter the life of the condensation trail. High winds aloft will assist in dissapation of the trail as well.

This is elementary understanding, understanding that has been around for as long as contrails have been in existence.


The fact is , ALL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE supports that vapor trails exist for variable amounts of time, based upon the factors I have listed above.


You are, in a word, wrong.

I think that pretty much sums it up, to be honest.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Sarcastic or not, I saw something similar to this on the Discovery channel.. talking about conspiracies.

I always thought Chemtrails as just Skywriters on drugs?...

Reb

I can vouch that contrails can last a hugely varying duration depending on atmospheric conditions. I once saw a plane flying near a cirrus cloud - when it was far away from the cloud, the trail disappeared almost immediately. As it approached the whispy outer part of the cloud though, its trail persisted and was thick, and started not lasting again as it left the fringes of the cloud. Looks like we had two different air masses with different humidities or something, and the effects of the engine were enough to seed extra clouds in one and not the other.

If there was something to this, I'd bite. Seems like contrails can be explained easily enough though.

Now if you wanted, I guess you could argue we wouldn't know the difference between a contrail or "chem" trail anyway since they both look the same.

And you just hit the nail on the head right there. Long lasting contrails are themselves essentially cirrus clouds. You noted there was a cirrus cloud in the area. That right there shows that the conditions were right for formation of persistent contrails. On another note, the vast majority of "chemtrail" videos and pictures I've seen also show natural, albeit thin, cirrus clouds already in the area. Go figure.

Wait a sec, didn't this guy post the exact same thing and then never got back to it on the BAUT forums? Are there any other forums he spammed this topic with?

I'm sure there are. If there is one thing spammers are it is they are thorough.

Your mind has obviously been subverted so that you THINK you sat a cirrus cloud. In reality, it was a mother ship.





j/k, but the OP probably thinks along these lines.

Thats what I always thought aswell. But try getting the "chemmies" to listen is a no-go. Theyve been on about this , silliest of CT, for years, without any evidence whatsoever.

Short, to the point and true, MID.

Yes indeed Torg...


You'll typically see this at altitude. A jet moving across your skies (anybody's) at the flight levels may be visible for 3 or 4 minutes. That means it's generally passing through about 30-40 miles of air. Often humidity will vary widely aloft, and you'll see a connie appear, then wink off, then re-appear, and perhaps wink off again...some sections remaining for a while, others maybe not appearing at all, or evaporating quicklyduring the course of such a transit. Conversely, you may see one appear and sit there for many minutes before beginning to dissapate, and at other times, you may see the aircraft with no connie---or, you might see two aircraft on the same jet route, one not pulling one, the other, leaving a pronounced trail, this latter example resulting from humidity variance at different altitudes (jet traffic on JRs on the same heading tends to be separated by a couple thousand feet on heavy traffic days if the horizontal separation between them is not withing a flight controllers estimation of a safe limit).

The reason the contrail appeared in the vicinity of the cirrus cloud was the same reason the cirrus cloud was there.


Contrails are simple to understand. Go out on a humid winter day and watch your exhalation condense into a cloud. That's a contrail, of sorts!

And pretty much the same type of stuff...water vapor and CO2! We're all doing the same thing a jet does aloft, except the flying part!

Thanks, D...

Sometimes, brevity is all that is really necessary.

I wonder if you'll really believe why they're doing this....???

This picture comes from someplace called Rumor Mill News...which is typical, so I doubt you can tell me where this was photographed and when, which could be pertinent information.


My guess is that it's out on the West Coast someplace near Los Angeles or San Francisco Centers. But it could be any place busy.

The pattern is typical of heavy traffic days where jet traffic is diverted off the beaten path for a little while, and then routed back toward it's original Jet Route course so as to maintain separation of aircraft. Odds are, this was a heavy traffic day and a few jets were extended a few minites past a certain waypoint, and then cleared to turn around and intercept that waypoint so as to resume course. One gets diverted for a few minutes, another passes by, then the diverted one is routed back into the mix, and another is diverted, and the next one passes by, etc....

Jet - those are Condensation trails formed by aircraft in a holding pattern before they are allowed by ATC to continue on their regular flight path or approach for landing.

As for the question of persistance of such trails being evidence that they are 'CHEMTRAILS' (Ahem, cough B******s).
Have you never noticed that, under certain atmospheric conditions, persistant water vapour formations are produced sometimes without an aircraft being anywhere near them?

I think you earthlings call them CLOUDS!, I've seen thousands of them over the years both from below and above!

...perhaps you should post some pictures, glyn...!

the apparatus in the picture looks a lot more complex than 'water barrels' to me.

Thren what do you think it is?

And you are saying this from what experience in the field?

I have observed these jets and their chemtrails. I do not believe it is normal flight patterns, because:
They turn off the trails, then go back and turn them back on and do criss crosses over the previous trails.
Normal flights patterns do not stop, turn around and go back over their trail repeatedly.
They do this repeatedly, back and forth, back and forth. Until they make a criss cross or tic-tac-toe pattern.
Also, they always do this at dusk, over the sunset.

Maybe that is what they do, to pass the time while they're waiting in the holding pattern.
(See posts above for suggestions as to why they might be 'going back and forth repeatedly', and why contrails might appear and disappear.)

Sorry MID no point - Jet and those of his beliefs would just say that the Chem bombers are using a new device to concentrate chemicals in one place.
He will just never admit that the chemicals involved are Hydrogen and Oxygen combined at the ratio of 2:1

Let me see if I can help here thunker,

The barrels are indeed part of the flight certification equipment that allows the aircraft manufacturers and Civil aircraft authorities to test whether or not a new aircraft can respond, in a predictable manner, to changes in the distribution of weight and centre of gravity (CofG) including some that are quite massive and rapid.

This simulates changes in the position of fuel in fuel tanks and passengers onboard which will alter the point at which an aircraft will pivot in flight in any of its 3 axis of flight IE Pitch(Up and down), Roll (rocking left or right along the axis of travel) and yaw (Left and right just as with a car steering)

The pipework allows the transfer of fluid (Usually water/Glycol mix) and the items on poles at the end of each barrel are either pumps or level sensors. (probably the latter)

The orange cable looms running through the cabin are sending data from Strain guages fitted to the aircraft structure, these signals are used to calculate the deformation on the airframe caused by weight/CofG transfers.

The Equipment racks at the back contain recording and analytical equipment that uses thousands of inputs to give the designers valuable information about how their designs are performing, allowing them to introduce safety modifications where necessary.

The yellow object in the middle is i believe a safety vest although it could be the ceremonial battle dress for a high commander of the vogon constructor fleet!
Perhaps the owner is in the small cubical to the rear right which is the only part of this aircraft to contain noxious chemicals. These are held in a containment unit operated by a small lever on the back wall of the cubical.

I hope that this response has allayed your fears, the above is a highly condensed version of a lecture that usually takes 1 to 2 days when I teach it in the real world.

Now your homework for this week children is to research the metereological phenomena known as cloud formation at altitude!

So That's why the Vogons were always so grumpy; not because of their poetry, because the ceremonial uniforms of their senior officers made them look like car park attendants.

Yes; notice the hazard warning on said cubicle as well. Very wise, in my experience.

Incidentally, if those were some nefarious noxious substances in those barrels, they seem rather lax about health & safety, don't they? Not a warning label in sight.

Nice job, glyn...!

Cheers, at this rate I'll have to see the chancellor for overtime approval!

I would grant such approval!

I have observed them as well and based on my experience as a pilot, two aviation degrees and time spent in the Air Force I can tell you they are normal flight patterns. In addition, I have followed them with binoculars and confirmed commercial markings on the vast majority of planes. I have also used the program Flight Explorer and matched planes in the air leaving these persistent contrails to regularly scheduled commercial traffic. As mentioned by others, sometimes planes have to enter holding patterns or are told by ATC to circle for spacing for other traffic. However, the vast majority of the time I have watched planes making patterns, they are separate planes and very very rarely (almost never) the same planes going back over their own paths. Contrails may stop when the plane enters a different air mass with different temperature and humidity properties. As for your last comment about always at dusk and over the sunset, I wonder if you have even ever actually observed this yourself or are just repeating some absurd claim made by someone else on the internet. Firstly, persistent contrails or as you call them "chemtrails" have been observed at all times of the day and in all areas of the sky. Secondly, I should hope you realize that dusk and in front of the sunset for you would not necessarily be the same for others viewing the same trails. While you might see them in the west, someone only 10 miles away would see them in the north, or south or east or even directly overhead. To claim they are always over the sunset is simply absurd but thanks for the laugh.

So, you think that for hours, they pleasure ride every night? After all, jet fuel is so cheap these days.

Go ahead and make fun. I don't really care. I am just stating my observation. After all , who am I to argue with someone who has 2 "aviation degrees" and has "spent time in the air force" (don't they have weight requirements for pilots? I have never seen an obese pilot!)
Funny, how all the debunkers suddenly become aviation experts and air force pilots. With complete knowledge of flight patterns and internal mechanics of aerodynamics.
P.S. there is no way possible to spot "commercial markings" with binoculars that far up. And yes, I observe it every evening at the same location.

Moon Demon. you ae making personal attacks here. That is against the rules of this site, do not do it again.

Would not this alone tell you that this might be something more mundane and routine than chemcarpetbombing?

How did I make fun? By calling your assertion that they "always" left these trails at dusk and in front of the sunset absurd? That is a simple fact verifiable by the vast majority of anyone who has oberved contrails or "chemtrails" and is backed up by pictures from both sides of the camp. Persistent contrails or "chemtrails" are often observed at all times of the day and simple common sense will tell you that what may be in front of the sunset for one observer will be in a completely different place for another. Unless you think the entire operation is somehow aimed at just you?

Did I say I was a pilot in the air force? No. I may have not been very clear but I said I was a pilot and I am currently in the Air Force. I am an air battle manager that flies on the JSTARS. Not sure why you think I'm obese. Perhaps the tiny picture I have for my avatar? My jacket was hanging open when the pic was taken so you can't really tell anything from that. Incidentally, that picture was taken in the carport of our on base house. You can make out the other houses in the background and almost make out the park as well. A search of my past post on this forum will show that I have consistently claimed to be an officer in the Air Force. If you would like to verify who I am, you can check here
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showuser=2327
Admittedly I don't offer much personal info on that site but that is my real name. I am an officer in the Air Force and whether you like it or not I do have the experience I claimed. I have studies contrails and "chemtrails" for far longer than I have been in the Air Force (due to my love of aviation) and have consistently found the "arguments" behind "chemtrails" to be lacking. The science behind contrail formation however is well established. It is over 70 years old and well known. The conditions for formations of persistent contrails can be predicted in advance and are well known to meteorologists. Not to mention the fact that spraying anything at 30,000+ feet inthe air to make a population sick is an absurd idea as well. Any particulate released at those altitudes can take days, sometimes weeks or even months to reach the ground and be halfway around the world when it does. This means it would be impossible to aim. Further by the time it did reach the ground, even if it was only in a few hours it would so dilluted to be completely useless. Additionally, many compounds would be renedered inert from the increased UV at altitude and the increased time spent in the UV during its long fall to the ground.

And yes, one can see commercial marking on aircraft with the right set of binoculars if one knows what to look for. Your reply tells me you've never really tried. Better to just assume they are all unmarked planes from the evil gubermint right? I notice you also ignored my comment about matching flights in the air to known commercial flight on Flight Explorer. There are other similar programs out there as well and they all give the same results.

I don't think anybody is making fun of you especially, but rather the topic itself, which is rather laughable in my honest opinion.



You can always argue, but that requires that you actually have the arguments to argue with. And none has so far been presented. Again and again the exact specifics of contrails have been pointed out, even with scientific links to underline their behavior. They have been extensively researched both from military (previously contrials was an excellent target pointer for anti aircraft artillery (AAA), but with radar and current missile technology, it is sort of outdated now;)) and civilian (pollution) angles. where is the scientific research showing that we are being sprayed with chemicals?! And what are those chemicals?! And what are they for?! And why are they being sprayed from 30,000 feet where one has no idea where they will land?! Oh, and what kind of concentration would be required for a chemical trail to actually be visible?! No, the thought is simply absurd in my honest opinion when you start weighing pros and cons against each other (I can't find a single pro for the chemtrail idea).

Yes, all the so-called chemtrail supporters can come up with is "but, vapour doesn't behave like that" and "why would planes fly in such patterns?". The former assertion is plain out wrong, as has been pointed out numerous times, and the latter has been explained over and over again. There has to be some substantial arguments to as why this is not vapour. Somehow those are still not coming forth, which is a fact in and of itself.



Not at all, and I for one certainly am not. But we have some very knowledgeable people in the field here, which incidentally also were the main people describing the characteristics of contrails and why chemtrails is a bogus concept based on scientific links. But when the only reply is that "contrials can only persist for a few seconds" (which is completely bogus) and "but I see this behavior from my bedroom window", they are in their right to assert put their experience behind what they say. Coherent, scientific argumentation obviously doesn't work, soooo....

Cheers,
Badeskov

Great post, as usual...just one question: is that your bike and which bike is it?!

Cheers,
Badeskov

There is still a military interest in contrails. Fighter pilots are briefed the contrail altitudes (yes they can be predicted) before every flight so they know to avoid those altittudes. Primarily it has to do with air-to-air fighter engagements. While radar is helpful, on a fighter it still takes time to search the entire sky and typically fighter radar scans a small area at a time. If one sees the enemy conning then they know a location and altitude to slew their radar to without having to search the entire vast area out there.