She had heart attack during the crucifixion scene
CHICAGO - A middle-aged woman died of an apparent heart attack Wednesday while watching the climactic crucifixion scene in “The Passion of the Christ” at a morning showing in Wichita, Kansas, a television station reported.
FULL REPORT LINK
Gazz
Full Version: Woman Dies Durring Passion Screening
that has gotta be good for sales....
You just can't buy advertising like that... 
No Lazarus-like comeback then. 
How many of you actually saw the film?
Here in Israel we won't get to see it anytime soon... it's too anti-semitic , at least that's what the movie censors decided... but some one will probably appeal to the high court, which will probably allow it to play here...
Anyway, some one knows if it can be downloaded from one of the file-sharing warez?
Here in Israel we won't get to see it anytime soon... it's too anti-semitic
, at least that's what the movie censors decided... but some one will probably appeal to the high court, which will probably allow it to play here...Anyway, some one knows if it can be downloaded from one of the file-sharing warez?
i don't see what the problem is, its about as antisemetic as the bible is, i don't see Jews picketing churches for preaching anti-semetism
Well, the NT was used as a theological base for Christian anti-semitism for the last 1,700 years or so.
But after the Holocaust, in the Second Vatican Convention, it was decided to clean to Jews from any accusation concerning Jesus's death. Protestants followed shortly, and Orthodox Christianity wasn't really relevant since most Orthodx Christians were under anti-religious Communist rule.
A small groups of Catholics and Protestants rejected the Second Convention and split from mainstream Christianity. Mel's father is a member in such a group, that denies the Holocaust and still sees the Jews as responsibles for Jesus execution. Untill recently, everyone thought that Mel Gibson didn't follow is father foot-steps and that he did not believe in the same anti-semitic form of Christianity that his father does. But the Passion of Christ shows the Jews to be responsible for Jesus's death, and lets the Romans get off the hook. Also the fact that this film is very graphic intensifies any feelings the viewers might get. This two facts makes this film highly conterversal...
But after the Holocaust, in the Second Vatican Convention, it was decided to clean to Jews from any accusation concerning Jesus's death. Protestants followed shortly, and Orthodox Christianity wasn't really relevant since most Orthodx Christians were under anti-religious Communist rule.
A small groups of Catholics and Protestants rejected the Second Convention and split from mainstream Christianity. Mel's father is a member in such a group, that denies the Holocaust and still sees the Jews as responsibles for Jesus execution. Untill recently, everyone thought that Mel Gibson didn't follow is father foot-steps and that he did not believe in the same anti-semitic form of Christianity that his father does. But the Passion of Christ shows the Jews to be responsible for Jesus's death, and lets the Romans get off the hook. Also the fact that this film is very graphic intensifies any feelings the viewers might get. This two facts makes this film highly conterversal...
| QUOTE (Erikl @ Feb 26 2004, 07:05 AM) |
| But the Passion of Christ shows the Jews to be responsible for Jesus's death, and lets the Romans get off the hook. |
When did you see the movie?
pure BS, Erikl. yes, Jesus was killed by the Jews just as much as the Romans and just as much as Judas or the times he lived in. i personally find it totally distasteful that Jewish people protest about a movie that portrays them in a bad light. i dont really care if it portrays them in a bad light or not, its based on fact that cannot be denied and to try and make those facts disappear won't change them.
you can't blame the NT for anti-semitism. that is absolute and total BS. if anything, the NT just verifies that the Jews are God's chosen people. you can't rewrite the Jews out of their role in the death of Christ though. these are facts that have stood for thousands of years and have been verified through what could be called one of the strictest and most elaborate studies ever conducted in the history of the Earth.
while we are at it, why don't 'white' people protest films that show them as owning slaves? why not say the British never repressed the 13 colonies? i mean, i love that movie The Patriot, but i bet British people probably find it offensive in some ways. lets all rewrite history so that it doesn't cast any of us in a bad light. that would be wonderful, wouldnt it? shiny happy people all around the world.
i just wonder why there is such an effort underway when it comes to this movie? why would a Jew feel a need to tell a Christian what their movie should portray the Jew as? im going to start protesting all these movies about people from Alabama, as i feel they might be portraying me in a negative light...
you can't blame the NT for anti-semitism. that is absolute and total BS. if anything, the NT just verifies that the Jews are God's chosen people. you can't rewrite the Jews out of their role in the death of Christ though. these are facts that have stood for thousands of years and have been verified through what could be called one of the strictest and most elaborate studies ever conducted in the history of the Earth.
while we are at it, why don't 'white' people protest films that show them as owning slaves? why not say the British never repressed the 13 colonies? i mean, i love that movie The Patriot, but i bet British people probably find it offensive in some ways. lets all rewrite history so that it doesn't cast any of us in a bad light. that would be wonderful, wouldnt it? shiny happy people all around the world.
i just wonder why there is such an effort underway when it comes to this movie? why would a Jew feel a need to tell a Christian what their movie should portray the Jew as? im going to start protesting all these movies about people from Alabama, as i feel they might be portraying me in a negative light...
I'm not going to let this thread turn to Judaism Vs. Christianity. That was going on for to long and resulted in to much loss in life for my people.
So I'm going to try and answer your claims, Bizzaro, as gentle as I can (this is after all a very emotionall topic).
So I'm going to try and answer your claims, Bizzaro, as gentle as I can (this is after all a very emotionall topic).
| QUOTE |
| i personally find it totally distasteful that Jewish people protest about a movie that portrays them in a bad light. |
You might find it distasteful, but we all know what 1,700 of things "that portrays them[jews] in a bad light" resulted in, don't we?
| QUOTE |
| its based on fact that cannot be denied and to try and make those facts disappear won't change them |
Facts to who? Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, Jews, Hindu and etc. don't accept those so-called facts. Also, since the Second Vatican Convention, mainstream Christianity doesn't accept that either.
| QUOTE |
| you can't blame the NT for anti-semitism |
I didn't say that the NT is anti-semitic (although some will argue it is), what I did say was that "the NT was used as a theological base for Christian anti-semitism for the last 1,700 years or so".
You can't deny that in the name of this book, hundred of thousands of Jews lost their life, and if you count the Holocaust which many see it to be the result of centuries of anti-semitism, than it is millions of Jews who lost their life.
| QUOTE |
| the NT just verifies that the Jews are God's chosen people |
Yes it does, together with blaming them for generations as the killers of Christianity's messiah.
| QUOTE |
| you can't rewrite the Jews out of their role in the death of Christ though. these are facts that have stood for thousands of years and have been verified through what could be called one of the strictest and most elaborate studies ever conducted in the history of the Earth. |
This is just rubbish. There was no religion in the world that was proved scientifically. If there was, than it was no longer a religion. but part of science.
As I said before, these "facts" as you call them are not accepted by most of the world and also are no longer accepted in mainstream Christianity.
| QUOTE |
| while we are at it, why don't 'white' people protest films that show them as owning slaves? |
Because the last time I checked, 'white' people weren't persecuted ofr owning slaves.
| QUOTE |
| why not say the British never repressed the 13 colonies? i mean, i love that movie The Patriot, but i bet British people probably find it offensive in some ways. |
Again, I don't remeber that the British were murdered and exterminated in the thousands because blood libels.
| QUOTE |
| i just wonder why there is such an effort underway when it comes to this movie? why would a Jew feel a need to tell a Christian what their movie should portray the Jew as? |
I think 1,700 years of persecutions and millions of dead Jews make us uncomfartible when a blood libel that caused such pesecutions and death is reapeated again today.
| QUOTE (fluffybunny @ Feb 26 2004, 02:21 PM) | ||
When did you see the movie? |
Didn't see it yet, but read what critics have to say. That's why I asked if some one here actually saw it.
| QUOTE |
| Here in Israel we won't get to see it anytime soon... it's too anti-semitic |
Erikl
I did see it. And I think it does not paint the jewish people as being responsible for the death of christ. It places the fact that Christ was responsible for his own death. He had several chances to defend himself. The Jewish leaders only called for his death. The Romans provided the violence.
I will quote to the best of my ability a person who made a statement about the claims of anti-semitism
1 No one objected to schindlers list. even though it painted the germans in a bad light.
2 No one objected to Gladiator, even though it painted the Romans in a bad light.
3 No one objected to the Ten Commandment's even though it portrayed Egyptians as poor swimmers.
| QUOTE |
| I'm not going to let this thread turn to Judaism Vs. Christianity. That was going on for to long and resulted in to much loss in life for my people. |
Hate to say it. But thousand of millions have died for thier beliefs. Not only those of the jewish faith.
Until you see the film do NOT judge it by who made it or what a bunch of idiotic critics say. Use your own mind, think for yourself.
Until you see the film do NOT judge it by who made it or what a bunch of idiotic critics say. Use your own mind, think for yourself.
Poor lady! You guys are right, you cann't buy adversiting like that.
I haven't seen the movie...But i plan too.
What I find disturbing is, how someone who has never seen the movie already thinks that it is prejudice. As Bathory said, it cannot be as anymore Anti-Semitic as the bible. A lot cultures are shown in many movies in not so flattering light, I do not seen them all cry racisms! Like SC said why do not you watched first and then decided for yourself!
I haven't seen the movie...But i plan too.
What I find disturbing is, how someone who has never seen the movie already thinks that it is prejudice. As Bathory said, it cannot be as anymore Anti-Semitic as the bible. A lot cultures are shown in many movies in not so flattering light, I do not seen them all cry racisms! Like SC said why do not you watched first and then decided for yourself!
| QUOTE |
| Orthodox Christianity wasn't really relevant since most Orthodx Christians were under anti-religious Communist rule. |
Erikl are you completely insane? 1. Christianity IS a religion, so how can their leaders be anti-religious? 2. As an ideology Communism is Athiest, and therefore would not be followed but Christainity which is Conservative at best. 3. You keep an portraying Communism in a bad anti-jewish light, ignoring over and over that the ideology was founded by Marx, who died an athiest but spent much of his life a Jew!!
| QUOTE |
| Facts to who? Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, .... Hindu and etc. don't accept those so-called facts. |
As for this, its not that any of there religions, and Athiesm, don't accept the 'facts' its that we DON'T CARE. As an athiest I know we're more interested in getting on with finding out how the universe began than finding out who or who was not responsible for someone's death 2000 years ago.
Erikl, you are oversimplifying the causes of the Holocaust. i dont purport to claim i know the reasons for it because I WAS NOT ALIVE during those times, but i know it was not simply because people disliked Jews. there are many reasons that are bound in history that were used as justification(even if some are bad justifications) that probably played a much greater role in the rise of Nazism. for example, the idea that Jews sold out the Germans at the treaty to end WWI is often cited as a major contributing factor. i am not saying i believe this, im just relating one of the things that led to the rise of Hitler which in turn led to the Holocaust. you should do some reading on your own to learn of these issues. truth is often in the details.
i have a problem with the way you present things in discussions. you seem to believe that everyone is anti-semitic when i would say that most people are not. you take some persecuted role on in all discussions that somehow imparts you with the right to be bigoted and idiotic in the name of your religion. i dont care if you think what i believe is anti-semitic or not, its my right to believe what i choose regardless of if it makes you uncomfortable. its also Mel Gibson's right to make a movie with HIS point of view presented the way HE chooses without all of this hullabaloo about it by Jewish rabbis and such.
when i say that "these are facts that have stood for thousands of years and have been verified through what could be called one of the strictest and most elaborate studies ever conducted in the history of the Earth", that does not mean it is proven scientifically. i am saying that religious scholars for the last 1900 years or so have been pouring over these accounts in a search for truth. the NT evidence that these things happened is even presented in multiple accounts and if i were a Bible thumper i would dig them up to offer proof to you, but i doubt you would care. i have read the NT and i have made up my own mind what it means. its pretty damn straightforward and yet i dont judge all Jews by the light it paints their actions in. surprisingly, i am able to separate past from present and resist this irresistable urge to persecute Jews.
Jews can believe what they believe, but Christ being forsaken by the Jews is PIVOTAL to what i believe as a Christian. you cannot change that because it is a key concept of my religion. the NT is the critical document of Christianity.
the really funny thing is that you bash Christianity as being responsible for the Holocaust. this is downright bigotry. some Christians sheltered Jews during the Holocaust- while most people were not even aware of the extent of the Holocaust when it was going on. im not making excuses for the inexcusable, im just pointing out that you paint with a broad and careless brush that is called GENERALIZATION, aka prejudice.
just as Stillcrazy says, millions have died for one belief or another throughout history. what makes the Jews so special that they are entitled to tell another religion what it should believe about them? the Holocaust? almost anyone in history could trace their roots to a Holocaust type event of one kind or another. ancient history is full of tales of unjust persecutions of entire groups of people, even my own ancestors. persecution is not some special right that allows you to rewrite history as you would have it written instead. when you say that 'mainstream Christianity' rejects these notions i believe you are mistaken. it would be more correct to say that mainstream Christianity does not blame the Jews for Christ's death in the manner that more barbaric past Christians did. that does not mean that they had no role in it and presenting the role they did play in it is anti-semitism.
i have a problem with the way you present things in discussions. you seem to believe that everyone is anti-semitic when i would say that most people are not. you take some persecuted role on in all discussions that somehow imparts you with the right to be bigoted and idiotic in the name of your religion. i dont care if you think what i believe is anti-semitic or not, its my right to believe what i choose regardless of if it makes you uncomfortable. its also Mel Gibson's right to make a movie with HIS point of view presented the way HE chooses without all of this hullabaloo about it by Jewish rabbis and such.
when i say that "these are facts that have stood for thousands of years and have been verified through what could be called one of the strictest and most elaborate studies ever conducted in the history of the Earth", that does not mean it is proven scientifically. i am saying that religious scholars for the last 1900 years or so have been pouring over these accounts in a search for truth. the NT evidence that these things happened is even presented in multiple accounts and if i were a Bible thumper i would dig them up to offer proof to you, but i doubt you would care. i have read the NT and i have made up my own mind what it means. its pretty damn straightforward and yet i dont judge all Jews by the light it paints their actions in. surprisingly, i am able to separate past from present and resist this irresistable urge to persecute Jews.
Jews can believe what they believe, but Christ being forsaken by the Jews is PIVOTAL to what i believe as a Christian. you cannot change that because it is a key concept of my religion. the NT is the critical document of Christianity.
the really funny thing is that you bash Christianity as being responsible for the Holocaust. this is downright bigotry. some Christians sheltered Jews during the Holocaust- while most people were not even aware of the extent of the Holocaust when it was going on. im not making excuses for the inexcusable, im just pointing out that you paint with a broad and careless brush that is called GENERALIZATION, aka prejudice.
just as Stillcrazy says, millions have died for one belief or another throughout history. what makes the Jews so special that they are entitled to tell another religion what it should believe about them? the Holocaust? almost anyone in history could trace their roots to a Holocaust type event of one kind or another. ancient history is full of tales of unjust persecutions of entire groups of people, even my own ancestors. persecution is not some special right that allows you to rewrite history as you would have it written instead. when you say that 'mainstream Christianity' rejects these notions i believe you are mistaken. it would be more correct to say that mainstream Christianity does not blame the Jews for Christ's death in the manner that more barbaric past Christians did. that does not mean that they had no role in it and presenting the role they did play in it is anti-semitism.
| QUOTE |
| there are many reasons that are bound in history that were used as justification |
Karl Marx being a former Jew and many Communist and Socialist leaders being Jews in Germany as the time linked Jews with Socialism, Communism, and Social Democracy... which Hitler and the Nazis HATED.
Lets remember 2 million left-wingers died in the camps as well.
I read the title and thought some bird had copped it whilst enjoying the finer thing in life 
Every six seconds , between its murder
Every six seconds , between its murder
| QUOTE |
| I read the title and thought some bird had copped it whilst enjoying the finer thing in life |
Miss-read the title as "Woman Dies Durring Passion Sreaming" ?
A passing thought...it seems to me if "american" were substituted for "jewish" this thread would be closed by now.
| QUOTE |
| A passing thought...it seems to me if "american" were substituted for "jewish" this thread would be closed by now. |
Why?
DOT9M,
I don't think that is the case.
This thread was started as a someone loosing her life, and intended to be turned into a debate. We are simply upset that people who not seen the movie are so quick to judge it be anti semitic.
I don't think that is the case.
This thread was started as a someone loosing her life, and intended to be turned into a debate. We are simply upset that people who not seen the movie are so quick to judge it be anti semitic.
Since this will prob be one of my last post on UM for awhile. For basiclly personal reasons. I will point out that claiming anything is anti-anything without seeing/reading/hearing it first shows an automatic racist attitude. Either that or extreme paranoia. Jews christians buddist and just about every religion has been persecuted at some point on another. Saying that ones person's view of an event is anti-(fill in the blank) without giving it the benifit of reviewing it is simply racist. I'm sorry. I don't agree with the right wing christians that want to ban everything. That is God's job. OT and NT not mine. It's called free will. The one thing that I have noticed as a general rule is that those who scream racist the loadest are always trying to suppress the views of others who do not agree with them.
Now to get back on topic. As for the woman who died during the movie tat is not that uncommon. Talk to any paramedic who works in a major city. People had heart attacks during Earthquake, the Exorcist. and Towering Inferno. It happens for crying out load.
When do YOU stop the HATE?
Now to get back on topic. As for the woman who died during the movie tat is not that uncommon. Talk to any paramedic who works in a major city. People had heart attacks during Earthquake, the Exorcist. and Towering Inferno. It happens for crying out load.
When do YOU stop the HATE?
| QUOTE |
| Since this will prob be one of my last post on UM for awhile. For basiclly personal reasons. |
But your comming back right?
Dude, your like one of the only people in this place who has anything decent to say 
(no offense meant )
| QUOTE |
| But your comming back right |
Yea I'll be back in a week or so. maybe a little longer, maybe shorter.
| QUOTE |
| Dude, your like one of the only people in this place who has anything decent to say |
Thanks
I'm glad someone reads my post.
Bizzaro:
The roots of the Nazi anti-semitism goes back many years before Hitler was born. It is rooted in ancient religious anti-semitism. I actually read a lot about Nazism, Communism etc..
The roots of the Nazi anti-semitism goes back many years before Hitler was born. It is rooted in ancient religious anti-semitism. I actually read a lot about Nazism, Communism etc..
| QUOTE |
| i have a problem with the way you present things in discussions. you seem to believe that everyone is anti-semitic when i would say that most people are not. |
I certainly do not think that every one is anti-semitic. I do think that some people have misconceptions about Israel and Jews in common, and allow themselves to act as if they know anything. That behaviour results in sayings that are not intentionally anti-semitic, but do carry such notion (again, non-intentionally).
For example: people that don't understand why Jews are so concerned about Christian anti-semitism, people that don't understand why equating Israel to Nazi germany is NOT legitemate and balanced critisizm over Israel's policies etc.).
I don't want you to get me wrong - I don't enjoy calling people anti-semites and I'm quite sure that everyone I spoke to here is not an anti-semite (yes Talon, even you
), but people here write things about Israel and Jews that are normally said by anti-semites, withour even realise that. Again, I'm this is not intentionally, but just comes from not knowing much about Israel or Jewish life.| QUOTE |
| i dont care if you think what i believe is anti-semitic or not, its my right to believe what i choose regardless of if it makes you uncomfortable |
I didn't blame you for being anti-semitic. And ofcourse you can believe in whatever you want - that's th buty in democracy. But if you believe in things that can hurt other people, you should not spread your beliefs out in the open, because people could get hurt.
Mel Gibson too should have been more careful. One of the lessons all the Western world should have learn from WW2 is that words can change more than people realise. I know that in the United States there is no restriction over ideology and so neo-nazis and other racist groups can operate freely if they do not use violence.
But if Gibson's film does contain anti-semitic material, he should be more sensetive to people's thought and cut out scenes that could refeul anti-semitism.
The freedom of speech is not without it's limits - you can say whatever you want as long as you don't hurt others. If your beliefs do hurt others, than you should keep them to yourself.
| QUOTE |
| its pretty damn straightforward and yet i dont judge all Jews by the light it paints their actions in. surprisingly, i am able to separate past from present and resist this irresistable urge to persecute Jews. |
I know it might be a shock to you - but not many Chrsitians in the past were able to be "good" Christians without being anti-semitic.
| QUOTE |
| Jews can believe what they believe, but Christ being forsaken by the Jews is PIVOTAL to what i believe as a Christian. you cannot change that because it is a key concept of my religion. the NT is the critical document of Christianity. |
I think Jesus acceptance among Jews is an internal issue - after all, Jesus was a good Jew
.| QUOTE |
| the really funny thing is that you bash Christianity as being responsible for the Holocaust. this is downright bigotry. |
Again you put words in my mouth. I didn't say Christianity was responsible for the Holocaust. I merely said that centuries of Christian anti-semtism was one of the reasons (and probably the main reason) that almost all of Europe cooperated with the Nazis (exept Denmark, Finland, Bulgaria, and to some degree Itally).
This is a position held by many Holocaust experts.
| QUOTE |
| some Christians sheltered Jews during the Holocaust |
And Israel and the Jewish people thank them from their bottom of their hurt.
| QUOTE |
| just as Stillcrazy says, millions have died for one belief or another throughout history. what makes the Jews so special that they are entitled to tell another religion what it should believe about them? the Holocaust? almost anyone in history could trace their roots to a Holocaust type event of one kind or another. |
Never. There was never such a ruthless persecution as was in the Holocaust. People were killed for their ethnic origin, even if they themselves forgot that origin long ago. Jews were sought after in all of Europe and even North Africa. The Nazis built death industy. A Jew's body and hair were used to make soap, carpet and bags. A Jew that entered Aushwich came out as a pile of ash after just 20 minutes.
The Nazis used precious resources were directed to anihalate Jews instead of helping the fronts.
| QUOTE |
| persecution is not some special right that allows you to rewrite history as you would have it written instead. |
I don't rewrite history. I'm not a religious man, but I do love religions and honor my ancestors' traditions. I have a respect to Christianity and I actually read pretty much about it (I'm now reading the NT in Hebrew).
So for me what you consider history, I consider mythology. Although one can learn a great deal of ancient history from the Bible (I mean NT and OT), one should know were history ends and religion begins.
I see my self not as a Jew because of my religion (althought I'm not going to convert to other religion), but because of my ethnic origins.
| QUOTE |
| I certainly do not think that every one is anti-semitic. I do think that some people have misconceptions about Israel and Jews in common |
The only problem with that sentence is that nobody here barring yourself sees Isreal and Jews as interconnected. To us, Israel is a country, Jeudism is a religion.
| QUOTE |
| that almost all of Europe cooperated with the Nazis (exept Denmark, Finland, Bulgaria, and to some degree Itally). |
Okay this proves you know NOTHING:
1. Italy was Germany's ally during WW2, seondly around 1937 to make Hitler happy is too adopted anti-semitic policies
2. Er what happened to Cechozlovakia and Poland who were occupied by Hitler
3. Oh Oh Oh and what about Britian and France who fought him in a war.
4. And lets not foget the Balkan states who Italy and Germany anihilated during the war.
Let me state for the record I am neither anti-Jewish nor anti-American.
I did not see the movie.
But this thread appears to be becoming a brawl about religion.
Jews have been persecuted, as have many other groups.
Americans included.
This just feeds the hate that has existed for thousands of years.
I feel bad for the woman who died, & I agree that this has to be great advertising for the movie. It reminds of when The Exorcist was released & ambulances were waiting by theatres because people were collapsing from the shock of that movie.
I did not see the movie.
But this thread appears to be becoming a brawl about religion.
Jews have been persecuted, as have many other groups.
Americans included.
This just feeds the hate that has existed for thousands of years.
I feel bad for the woman who died, & I agree that this has to be great advertising for the movie. It reminds of when The Exorcist was released & ambulances were waiting by theatres because people were collapsing from the shock of that movie.
| QUOTE |
| I didn't said Christianity was responsible for the Holocaust. I merely said that centuries of Christian anti-semtism |
You need to qualify this statemnet it's not Christian anti-semitism it is the leaders of those religions. Just as it wasn't Jewish anti Christ, but the local leaders of the temple. When does blaming a people stop and you start placing the responsibility on the person or persons.
And All your points as well as mine have nothing to do with this thread.
Also, the Holocaust began AFTER the invasion of the soviet union, which meant WW2 was several years old, which ment I see no opening for any of the allies, even in peace time to "cooperate" with his anti-semitism.
If you don't know anything about Europe, don't sit there and write that our nations comitted genocide!
If you don't know anything about Europe, don't sit there and write that our nations comitted genocide!
| QUOTE |
| But this thread appears to be becoming a brawl about religion. |
No, this was a thread about a woman dying, it was Erikl who started the paraniod arguement that Christians are out to get Jews, and that Europe didn't fight a war agaionst Hitler but instead "coperated" with him.
This is a bunch of people attacking the view (not the poster himself) of a paraniod poster who is writing apsolute garabage. Just because he happens to be Jewish doesn't mean we are attacking his posts because he's Jewish.
I think this one's gone on slightly too long. We really don't need another fight over religion, so I'm locking this one.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.