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Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Science > Space and Astronomy
Meik
What direction is the center of the universe?
Waspie_Dwarf
QUOTE (Meik @ Jun 11 2008, 01:12 AM) *
What direction is the center of the universe?


This is not easy to explain but there isn't one from a three dimensional point of view.

Imagine that you are a 2 dimensional being living on the surface of a child's balloon. Because you are 2d you can not imagine the concept of up or down. You can move around the surface of your balloon universe but you will never find it's centre. The balloon is expanding in the same way our universe is. The centre of that expansion is in the third dimension, a dimension that the 2d being can not experience or comprehend, except hypothetically.

The same is true for us. The centre of the universe can be thought of as the point from which the universe is expanding away from. That point, however, is in a fourth spatial dimension, one we 3d beings can not comprehend except hypothetically.

I hope that made sense.
Nucular
QUOTE (Meik @ Jun 11 2008, 01:12 AM) *
What direction is the center of the universe?


It's that way -------->
Leonardo
QUOTE (Nucular @ Jun 11 2008, 03:00 PM) *
It's that way -------->



No it's not, it's that way <---------------
Kyle O'Brian
You're both wrong, it's thataway <======>

But in all seriousness, Waspie's got it down.
Dark Ninja Alien
as waspie said "The centre of the universe can be thought of as the point from which the universe is expanding away from." this means that to find the centre of the universe, you must find out in which direction hubble caught the echo's of the "big bang"!
Meik
QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Jun 10 2008, 06:52 PM) *
This is not easy to explain but there isn't one from a three dimensional point of view.

Imagine that you are a 2 dimensional being living on the surface of a child's balloon. Because you are 2d you can not imagine the concept of up or down. You can move around the surface of your balloon universe but you will never find it's centre. The balloon is expanding in the same way our universe is. The centre of that expansion is in the third dimension, a dimension that the 2d being can not experience or comprehend, except hypothetically.

The same is true for us. The centre of the universe can be thought of as the point from which the universe is expanding away from. That point, however, is in a fourth spatial dimension, one we 3d beings can not comprehend except hypothetically.

I hope that made sense.

what is the 4th demention?
Dark Ninja Alien
QUOTE (Meik @ Jun 12 2008, 01:42 AM) *
what is the 4th demention?


as far as i have been told the 4th dimension is time
PriestinMO
QUOTE (dr alien @ Jun 11 2008, 05:20 PM) *
as waspie said "The centre of the universe can be thought of as the point from which the universe is expanding away from." this means that to find the centre of the universe, you must find out in which direction hubble caught the echo's of the "big bang"!


I believe you may be thinking of the cosmic background radiation dr allen, or the microwave radiation we see today that was produced when the universe was a very hot and dense place. For a greater understanding of what this is and how it was produced there are many good reads available through a basic web-search for CBR or 'cosimic background radiation." Since the CBR is on a whole quite uniform in any direction one looks one might conclude that:
1) we are in the center of the universe, or...
2) the universe has no center
Meik
how can there be a big bang if there is no center! there has to be a center of the universe if there was a big bang.

If the 4th dimention is time then when we look at the universe and see things from different times and it distorts the placement of things then things would either appear closer or further away from the center but not actually in the center.

i dont think anyone has any idea how to answer my question.
atom286
QUOTE (Meik @ Jun 11 2008, 01:12 AM) *
What direction is the center of the universe?


Very easy question to answer although somewhat philosophical.

The centre of the universe is inside your mind.
DONTEATUS
So its like ,where ever and when ever there you are? If we are all the center of the universe and every atom everwhere its got its center? I like that! We are all centered. And all expanding Gotta love that B,B,Q LoL
Kyle O'Brian
QUOTE
how can there be a big bang if there is no center! there has to be a center of the universe if there was a big bang.

Well, from what I understand, when the Big Bang occured, there wasn't any center of the explosion because there was nothing for it to expand into. Space itself was being expanded. Since space is constantly expanding, we could never reach the exact center of the universe (though hypothetically, we could get close).
atom286
QUOTE (DONTEATUS @ Jun 12 2008, 06:54 PM) *
So its like ,where ever and when ever there you are? If we are all the center of the universe and every atom everwhere its got its center? I like that! We are all centered. And all expanding Gotta love that B,B,Q LoL


Our minds are at the centre of the universe because the universe is realitive to each of us. (Einsteins theory of relativity)
Its like asking two people the length of a piece of string and getting two differant answers.

Probabilities are strange things as well. Do you realise its your mind that stops things behaving as probabilities because its you that gains infomation on objects through your senses. IF you were blind, deaf and had no mind to process the infomation the entire universe would spend its whole existence behaving as a probability towards you. In this respect you must therefore be at the centre of the universe too!

Then there's the contents of your mind. You're own little reality and universe is constructed out of all the infomation you have stored away in your head.
As many explorers from the middle ages pointed out whilst sailing past newly discovered peoples in the pacific they can't even see the ships unless they have them pointed out to them. Ask yourself if someone with a physics degree therefore lives in the same reality as a average man of the street. Ask yourself if its just a lack of infomation or if the universe does in fact work in some bizarre ways.

Finally there's the placebo effect which I would argue is the probabilties at work again. A positive mind has positive perceptions and gains positive infomation on the world around it which means the outcome of probabilities is more likely to be positive. Be positive and the universe unfolds in a positive manner, be negative everything goes against you.

PriestinMO
QUOTE (Meik @ Jun 12 2008, 05:57 PM) *
i dont think anyone has any idea how to answer my question.


Please permit me to answer the question this way...

http://www.exploratorium.edu/hubble/tools/center.html

I am sure you are familure with the deepspace observations of the Hubble telescope and you are aware that the galaxies viewed all appear very young. I am sure you understand why they appear that way (speed of light and all of that). Now, using your imagination transport yourself instantantly to a planet in one of those distant galaxies that lie some 13+ billion light years away. Also, imagine you have acess to the images from a Hubble like telescope in orbit about your now distant location. What you would see locally are very mature galalxies. As you look deeper and deeper into space towards our own Milky Way the galaxies would llok like it did 13+ billion years ago. Then turn your telescope 180 degrees in the other direction and you would see not a wall of fire or the edge of the universe but pretty much the same you see when looking back towards the Milky Way... older mature galaxies nearby and as you look deeper and deeper the galaxies will appear younger and younger.

Now, using the very same techniques used by Hubble the man you will notice that with the exception of any nearby gravity influenced galaxy all galaxies are moving away from your current location. Hubble, who had been the first to establish that the universe included many other galaxies outside of our own, noticed the galaxies were receding from us at a velocity proportional to their distance. The more distant the galaxy, the greater its redshift, and therefore the higher the velocity, a relation known as Hubble's Law. This gives the illusion that you are standing in the center of where a very large explosion took place because everything is moving away from your location in the universe. BUT, it is only an illusion caused by the expansion of the universe and not the PUSH caused by an explosion. I know, difficult to visualize but not impossible.

So, to answer you question... there is no discernable center because no matter your location in the universe it will always appear that you are at the center.

I hope this helps, if not then all I can suggest is to go looking for the answers you seek using web searches for credible resources. original.gif
Dark Ninja Alien
i think that there is some mysterious thing at the centre of the universe. it could be a force, something super-dense, something that causes the universe to expand... IT COULD BE SOMETHING UNIQUE THAT WE HAVE NEVER SEEN OR KNOWN ABOUT BEFORE!!!!
Meik
that makes alot of sense!!! but after i did the test on the link it made me wonder.... what direction are things really expanding in? because if you knew the direction that they were going you could find the true center. it just looks like everything is going away from us but it really isnt. Is there any way to find the true direction that galexies are traveling in?
Dark Ninja Alien
QUOTE (Meik @ Jun 13 2008, 05:53 PM) *
that makes alot of sense!!! but after i did the test on the link it made me wonder.... what direction are things really expanding in? because if you knew the direction that they were going you could find the true center. it just looks like everything is going away from us but it really isnt. Is there any way to find the true direction that galexies are traveling in?

the universe is expanding in all directions, if we could find out which direction the edge of the universe is, and then point to the opposite direction you might find it, it will be hard to find out where it is or to see it because there is so much cosmic dust or galaxies blocking the view of it, for all we know it would be impossble to see. if you tried looking for the centre of earth it would be easy to find all you'll need to do is point down from where your standing and that would be the centre of earth if you keep digging for it, but the universe is different, you dont know which way is up and down :S
PriestinMO
QUOTE (Meik @ Jun 13 2008, 04:53 PM) *
Is there any way to find the true direction that galexies are traveling in?


No, not really because of the current technology and information available to us. Once more, the delimma is determining where the exact point in the universe is that isn't moving. Consider this for a moment... what is your current speed as you sit there in front of your computer? Zero? Sure, if your speed is measured against the piece of earth under your butt or immediately surrounding you. But what is the speed if you measure the change in distance over time (D/t) between yourself and say... the Cliffs of Dover, the moon, the sun, the North Star, the center of our galaxy, Andromeda, or some other far point? Which is really moving and which is at rest, or is neither truly at rest?

Homer
QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Jun 10 2008, 09:52 PM) *
The same is true for us. The centre of the universe can be thought of as the point from which the universe is expanding away from. That point, however, is in a fourth spatial dimension, one we 3d beings can not comprehend except hypothetically.


QUOTE (Meik @ Jun 11 2008, 08:42 PM) *
what is the 4th demention?


QUOTE (dr alien @ Jun 12 2008, 11:10 AM) *
as far as i have been told the 4th dimension is time


Waspie_Dwarf was referring to space, not time, for the 4th dimension.

If the expansion was reversed all the way back to the ‘beginning’(and it didn’t take billions of years to do it original.gif ), I’m certain I would be there in that singularity. So doesn’t that mean I’m the center of the universe? cool.gif
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