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Rosewin
What does sociology and the sociologist have to say about religion? This aspect is rarely touched on in this forum but I think sociology offers interesting views into how religion and society interplay. Hopefully we will be able to discuss a few concepts in this thread including sociological paradigms.

One would be the conflict thesis also known as the warfare thesis which was introduced by Draper and White but which is no longer seen as an accurate model by contemporary consensus. Karl Marx also contributed to the conflict analysis with his oft-repeated 'Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes' or religion is the opiate of the masses. He also stated in 1848 that 'man makes religion, religion does not make man' and well as concluding that religion is always the tool of the dominant class in any society, today that would be secularization in some European societies, and that a society without any class division religion would simply be a matter of superstition. On his opiate of the masses phrase there are several ways in which we believe that he was referring to opium since it was seen differently then than it is now.

Emile Durkheim, a pioneer in functional analysis, took an interest in the study of religion from a sociological aspect during an era where many of his contemporaries considered religion nothing more than superstition that had long lived past its usefulness and forecast that it would eventually be phased out. Durkheim though recognized religion as a cultural universal which every society has in some form or another. Functionalism explains how social institutions fulfills sociological needs and promote stability and this goes beyond religion. Durkheim's works went way beyond religion and he 'placed himself in the positivist tradition, meaning that he thought of his study of society as dispassionate and scientific. He was deeply interested in the problem of what held complex modern societies together. Religion, he argued, was an expression of social cohesion. His underlying interest was to understand the existence of religion in the absence of belief in any religion's actual tenets. Durkheim saw totemism as the most basic form of religion.'

QUOTE
Durkheim thought that the model for relationships between people and the supernatural was the relationship between individuals and the community. He is famous for suggesting that "God is society, writ large." Durkheim believed that people ordered the physical world, the supernatural world, and the social world according to similar principles.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durkheim#Religion

I wanted to jump in with a portion from an old textbook I have that discusses secularization but instead will offer another portion that discusses the sociological approach and if it does for you what is has done for me so long ago then perhaps some will be able to gain further insight into religion and new ways of thinking, broader ways of thinking, about our world and the people in it. Maybe it is just me but as some might notice my thinking is strongly influenced by these concepts.

The Sociological Approach to Religion

QUOTE
Mr. Thwackum, a character in Henry Fielding's novel Tom Jones, declares: "When I mention religion, I mean the Christian religion; and not only the Christian religion, but the Protestant religion; and not only the Protestant religion, but the Church of England." Most people are like Mr. Thwackum: when they mention religion, they have their own in mind.

Whatever our religious beliefs may be, we usually learn them from other people through socialization into a particular faith (or through resocialization, if we convert from one faith to another). The religious convictions that anyone holds are thus influenced by the historical and social context in which that person happens to live. Someone born in ancient Rome would probably have believed Jupiter is a father of the Gods; at any rate, he or she would certainly not have been a Jehovah's Witness or a Hindu. Similarly, if your parents are Catholic, you are probably Catholic; if they are Mormons, you too are probably a Mormon. We are not the passive prisoners of our upbringing, of course, but even people who decide to convert from one religion to another must almost inevitably select their new faith from the unique range of options that their particular society happens to offer.

The fact that a religious doctrine is culturally learned does not tell us anything about whether it is "true" or not: it might be the case, for example, that the learning process is inspired by some divine plan or purpose. What this cultural variety does mean, however, is that there are a large number of religions, many of whose members are convinced that theirs is the one true faith and that all others are misguided, superstitious, or ungodly. Where does this leave sociologist who study religion? Can and should they make judgments in these matters?

The answer is that sociology cannot be concerned with the truth of falsity of any religion: like other empirical sciences, such as economics or chemistry, sociology is simply not competent to investigate the supernatural or to play umpire between competing faiths. Individual sociologist may be personally committed to a religious viewpoint-as indeed many of the leading contemporary sociologist of religion are (Berger, 1969; Bellah, 1970; Greeley, 1972; B. Johnson, 1977). But sociological research is necessarily directed at the social rather than the theological aspects of religion. Regardless of whether or not God exists, religion, like any other institution, has social characteristics that can be studied by the methods of social science.

Sociologist of religion focus on such issues as the relationship between society and religion. The sociologist can show, for example, that all religions reflect the cultural concerns of the societies in which they arise: war-prone societies tend to have gods of war; agricultural societies gods of fertility. Strongly patriarchal societies, such as those of the Middle East, tend to have masculine gods (it was within this context that both Islam and Christianity derived the concept of God as "He" rather than "She). Societies that accord much greater power and prestige to men likewise tend to have religions dominated by male officials; it is therefore not surprising that priests, rabbis, and other clergy have been exclusively male in the past, or that this situation is gradually changing as sex roles in general become more flexible. Another example is is that most Western Christians, being white, tend to think of both God and Jesus as white. The idea of a black God is almost unimaginable to them, and portraits of Jesus frequently present him as a blond Caucasian rather than as the person of Semitic features he no doubt was. In many African churches, on the other hand, statues and portraits of Jesus show him with dark, Negroid features.


Robertson, Ian. "Sociology" Worth Publishers, 1981. p 403

Some questions to consider:

1. Do you ever think about other religions from other cultures be they across the world or just across town? You know that building or storefront you see and ever wonder what goes on inside?

2. Do you ever consider religion as being just a social construct? Depending on the culture and moment in history and how it would differ than our own frame of space and time?

3. What do you consider will be the future of religion with the inevitable change that occurs in society? Will the old religions change? Will new ones be developed? Will some change form and lose their bureaucratic and organizational aspects?
Leonardo
My opinion would be that religion is the politicisation of faith. In sociological terms this would render faith into a heirarchy with an elite controlling and determining the methodology of expressing faith.

A tribe, basically.

Edited to add:

Anything one can conceive as can happen to a tribe/gang/group can happen to a religion, since they are one and the same. Change or the rate of change depends on the method of ensuring the passing on of control.
Rosewin
What about beliefs and faiths that fall outside of that scheme who have not developed a hierarchy or an elite? Ones that even if organized do not encourage the adherent to give power to anything other than what is being worshiped?

I agree though that in many ways tribes, gangs, and groups can act and share similarities especially developments as religious groups but not all religions are based on self-preservation and a case in point would be the Shakers which at one time numbered around six thousand and by some counts have only four people left as of 2006? (source)

Then there are eclectic Wiccans who in many cases practice and experience spirituality alone or in limited groups.
Leonardo
QUOTE (Clovis @ Jun 11 2008, 03:48 PM) *
What about beliefs and faiths that fall outside of that scheme who have not developed a hierarchy or an elite? Ones that even if organized do not encourage the adherent to give power to anything other than what is being worshiped?

I agree though that in many ways tribes, gangs, and groups can act and share similarities especially developments as religious groups but not all religions are based on self-preservation and a case in point would be the Shakers which at one time numbered around six thousand and by some counts have only four people left as of 2006? (source)

Then there are eclectic Wiccans who in many cases practice and experience spirituality alone or in limited groups.


If a faith has not developed a heirarchy can it then be said to be a religion?

I know this might be a grey area, but in my opinion it would not. I accept that other people have different definitions for religion though.

I'm not sure about the self-preservation position. Any social group practices self-preservation to a degree (except a suicide pact I suppose!!! tongue.gif ), however changes in the religio-political scene as well as other cultural changes can cause the demise of religious methodologies. This does not negate the self-preservation aspect of a religion, just means it was not effective.

Edited to add:

In my first sentence when I mentioned heirarchy, I was also implying the control over expression of worship in that.
Lt_Ripley
Some questions to consider:

1. Do you ever think about other religions from other cultures be they across the world or just across town? You know that building or storefront you see and ever wonder what goes on inside?

sure

2. Do you ever consider religion as being just a social construct? Depending on the culture and moment in history and how it would differ than our own frame of space and time?

sure it is .......some just last longer than others . eventually they all change into something and/or eventually die away. Just as christanity was influenced and shaped by religions and myths and social views around it then so will it continue to be. it's inevitable.

3. What do you consider will be the future of religion with the inevitable change that occurs in society? Will the old religions change? Will new ones be developed? Will some change form and lose their bureaucratic and organizational aspects?

see above.
SunDogDayze
Oooh, I like this one Clovis.

I used to have a blog in which I would post some of the same things you find me saying in here, but in response to news stories and such. I try to keep a fair disposition on religion, specifically Christianity, since that is the main religion I am surrounded with and familiar with. The name of my blog was "Social Aspirin" which sounds like a modern version of Marx's quote.

I tend to believe that societies DO create religion, develop it and fine tune it to that societies specific needs or customs or unrelated beliefs. In my opinion, that is why we see so many diverse religions in as many diverse cultures. To me, it seems absurd to think that out of all the religions in the world, any of them is the 'correct' one and the others are all false beliefs, since it is apparent that it is within the human social contruct to devise religion and supernatural beliefs. That would mean that every culture or society had followed the norm of creating a religion, and the society that followed the 'correct' one did not (but had been shown or given their religion by the deity itself), and therefore an entire society had gone against the normal human function. A whole group of people failed to "evolve" a religion by itself like everyone else, and instead was handed one.

Anyhow, to answer the questions you specified in the OP,

1. Yes I have though a lot about religions from all over the world. I took a few religions classes, and one of my essays was regarding the believability factor of different religions. I.E. a Christian from the US might laugh at a foreign religion that claims that the universe is controlled by multiple deities living within animals as spirits, but the believers in that particular faith would laugh at the idea that a single deity living in an unspecified place in the sky watches everyone all the time and smites them for premarital sex. I think the believability factor is always biased based on the religious environment in one's primary society.

2. I have thought religion is a social contruct for a long time. In all honesty, it doesn't take away any of it's importance by believing that. It would make it just as important as any other basic social skill or custom, which are necessities of a prosperous society. I think the difference between our frame of perpective and those of other cultures or moments in history is the amount of knowledge. Religion attempts to explain the unknown, and supernatural explanations are added to religions to account for lack of knowledge about different topics. The amount of knowledge that any one culture has about particular subjects seems to be directly correllated to the amount of supernatural or religious beliefs used as explanation.

3. I believe that as more information is widely available, and less unknowns are looming over the heads of societies, religion will most likely morph into something more like a philosophy. This seems apparent to me because of the way we can easily look and see that cultures with more access to information are more prone to being secular, or philosophical without supernatural beliefs, and the cultures who are lagging in education or information still have a stronger chance of being highly religious, and rely on supernatural reasons to explain unknowns. For example, the US and UK have become more secular in the recent past because science has been able to explain things we once attributed to the supernatural, and this information is easily accessible to members of that society. However, tribal communities that are restricted by location or opportunity to very little information and knowledge regarding the sciences, still rely on 'spirits' and spells and other supernatural explanations.

Wow, that was a lot longer than I thought it would be. original.gif

**edit for grammatical errors.
Mr Walker
QUOTE
Some questions to consider:

1. Do you ever think about other religions from other cultures be they across the world or just across town? You know that building or storefront you see and ever wonder what goes on inside?

2. Do you ever consider religion as being just a social construct? Depending on the culture and moment in history and how it would differ than our own frame of space and time?

3. What do you consider will be the future of religion with the inevitable change that occurs in society? Will the old religions change? Will new ones be developed? Will some change form and lose their bureaucratic and organizational aspects?


1. yes I spent many years both studying religious beliefs and studying with different groups. (in the lattercase I was limited by the lack of cultural diversity in my area but i certainly studied with most denominations of christianity found in Australia)

I did this because of my personal experience where god manifested to me and i wanted to come to an understanding of his nature and his influence on humanity. In the end i decided the bible provided the best extant source of contact with god over many millenia and followed that as a guide, rather than any particular denomination

2. As your article in the op suggested i think religious belief stems from many things. First, it is inherent in humanity like emotions, logic, reason and other products of self aware sentience are People can deny, or refuse to use this religious /spiritual component of their make up , just as they can refuse to use logic or emotion to make decisions.Some people use too much logic others too much emotion and a few too much religion/spiritual belief in their decision making. A balance of all is essential.

Second we do construct religious belief in the same way we consruct other beliefs just as the article suggests. Of course our minds work the same way in what ever problem solving/ area of life they are analysing.

However the very existence of religion implies that there are things we seek to explain which cannot be explained by mundane or concrete observation and analysis applying the scientific method. Thus religion is a response to the observable but inexplicable. From my experience i suggest god angels miracles and many other supernatural /psychic phenomenum fall into this category. They are real but inexplicable, therefore we build religions or superstions around them in an attempt to build rational explanations for forces which would other wise terrify or at least constantly beguile us. As we do so, we no longer have to struggle individually with the deep problems these experiences produce, we can just accept one of the many social constructs on offer.

3. You can probably see from my last answer that i believe religion, and also personal spirituality, will continually evolve , both as more of the world is explained by science, but also as societiy's concerns and fears change. Thus geaism/ paganism etc may become more popular as ecological awareness increases while druidism and female led faiths will respond to an increase in feminist consciousness and confidence. Finally s we expand out from earth i expect an expansionist humanist faith tio grow just as christianity became one of the driving forces of colonialism and colonialism in turn provided a renewed reason for existence for christianity
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