Ġgantija
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Ggantija templeĠgantija (also Ggantia) IPA: [gænti:ə] is a megalithic temple complex on the Mediterranean island of Gozo (part of Malta), constructed by the Sicani tribe from the Italian island of Sicily, when the people first inhabited Malta.[1] The two temples of Ġgantija on the island of Gozo are notable for their gigantic Neolithic structures, which were erected during the Neolithic Age (c. 3600-2500 BC). At more than 5500 years old, the Ġgantija temples are the world's oldest free-standing structures (Even older than the Pyramids of Egypt and the Stonehenge) and the world's oldest religious structures.[citation needed] The temples were possibly the site of an Earth Mother Goddess Fertility Cult, with numerous figurines and statues found on site believed to be connected with that cult.

In the Maltese language, Ġgantija means "belonging to the giants". According to local Gozitan legend, the temples were built by the giants who resided in Gozo during ancient times. It is said that the temples themselves were used by the giants as watchtowers.

You folks tell me, why are these oldest strutures ignored so much??

I got the same feeling. Somehow suggesting new alternative history theories that don't fit current dogmatic Smithsonian/Darwinian consensus amounts to heresy. Too bad, I just love reading Hancock, Steiger, Cremo, Bauval, West, Dunn, David et all. There's a lot more going on that is hidden/discarded that we are led to believe.

So what you're saying is aliens built it and they dont want us to know about it?

Maybe it's just an ancient stone building built by stacking stones, and the reason we don't hear about it is because it's nowhere near on the scale of the pyramids or stonehenge.

But how can these be the world's oldest human-built structures when there are ruins in Turkey which are twice as old? I speak, of course, of Gobekli Tepe, which is nearly 12,000 years old (9,500 BC).

The two temples of Ġgantija on the island of Gozo are notable for their gigantic Neolithic structures, which were erected during the Neolithic Age (c. 3600-2500 BC). At more than 5500 years old, the Ġgantija temples are the world's oldest free-standing structures (Even older than the Pyramids of Egypt and the Stonehenge) and the world's oldest religious structures.[citation needed] The temples were possibly the site of an Earth Mother Goddess Fertility Cult, with numerous figurines and statues found on site believed to be connected with that cult.

The Tarxien Temples (IPA: [ˈtarʃiɛn]) are an archaeological complex in Tarxien, Malta. They date back to approximately 2800 BC.[/b] The site was accepted as a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1980 along with the other Megalithic temples on the island of Malta.

Göbekli Tepe (Turkish for "Hill with a Belly") is a hilltop sanctuary built on the highest point of an elongated mountain ridge about 15km northeast of the town of Şanlıurfa (Urfa) in southeast Turkey. The site, currently undergoing excavation by German and Turkish archaeologists, was erected by hunter-gatherers in the 10th millennium BC (ca 11,500 years ago), before the advent of sedentism. [b]It is currently considered the oldest known shrine or temple complex in the world, and the planet's oldest known example of monumental architecture. Together with the site of Nevalı Çori, it has revolutionised the understanding of the Eurasian Neolithic.

Is there any other links to verify the age of Ggantija? The ones that represent Malta tourism or the govt of Malta that I have seen make me suspicious. Basically any government that can stand to gain tourist dollars might stretch the numbers. National Geographic had nothing on them. According to legend they were built by 'giants'. Nephilim eh?

Is there any other links to verify the age of Ggantija? The ones that represent Malta tourism or the govt of Malta that I have seen make me suspicious. Basically any government that can stand to gain tourist dollars might stretch the numbers. National Geographic had nothing on them. According to legend they were built by 'giants'. Nephilim eh?

I have a feeling that it all has to do with dates and theories already being "committed", and this just ends up putting a wrench in a lot of theories about what we assumed about mankind back that far. I feel mankind was much more advanced than the time-line indicates in most archaeological circles. But, thats just me nattering away, not like I'm a professional (maybe a professional natterer)

question - why isnt there much on Gobekli Tepe ?? why is it not in the news?

It appears that the site was first in use around 3600 BC when some natural cavities were used as a repository for the bones of the dead. As the cavities filled up, newThe Hypogeum on Malta chambers were cut progressively deeper into the rock.

An underground area of more than 500 square meters devoted to worship and burial - the bones of over 7000 people have been found. The system of caves, passages and cubicles cut into the stone is similar to the interiors of megalithic temples.

Hal Saflieni Hypogeum is an enormous subterranean structure excavated with cyclopean rigging to lift huge blocks of coralline limestone around the year

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/tunnels.html
An opening in the wall opposite the entrance to this cave leads to a passage narrow and torturous, the entrance to the real caves. This passage ends on a pathway which extends along the side of a vast cleft in the earth, a pathway along the edge of a veritable chasm, a pathway which leads ever downward to the long underground tunnels and series of caves which are reputed to allow one to traverse the entire length of the island and even further.

Legend has it that these passageways at one time connected with the underground crypts from which the Catacombs of Rome were created. This may very well be true; for the reader must remember that the Mediterranean Sea was created after neolithic times by earthquakes and the shifting of the earth's crust. Therefore, while the ancient tunnels may have existed, they might have been closed by cataclysms of this type, with the knowledge of them coming down to us only in legends.

The tunnels under the "Hypogeum" have been sealed off ever since a school teacher took 30 students into the caves and disappeared, guide and all. It was stated that the walls caved in on them. Search parties were never able to locate any trace of these people.

It has been asserted that for weeks the wailing and screaming of children was heard underground in different parts of the island, but no one could locate the source of the sound. If the walls caved in, why the cave-in could not be found and excavated to free the children remains a mystery.

How the children could live to scream for weeks later is another involved puzzle. At any rate, the underground entrance to the caves in Malta has been sealed off, and nobody is allowed to investigate the site.

Another race
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_maltaskulls_1.htm
Even the other skulls we examined presented strange anomalies. Some were more natural and harmonic than the cranium that mostly gained our attention, but they still presented a pronounced natural dolichocephalous and we could assume, without fear of refutation, that it is distinctive of an actual race, different to the native populations of Malta and Gozo. This consideration was confirmed by the Maltese archeologists themselves, Anthony Buonanno and Mark Anthony Mifsud, who said:

"They are another race although C-14 or DNA exams haven't yet been performed. Perhaps these individuals originated from Sicily".

We shall discuss this detail further on. Meanwhile, it's worth the while to emphasize that one of these skulls showed unequivocal signs of surgical intervention in the occipital area. The outlines of three small holes, made in the occipital bone called inion, had time to cicatrize, therefore the patient survived the operation although such intervention surely would have undermined his motorial faculties. But there is more. A fair part of the 7000 skeletons dug out of the Hal Saflienti hypogeum and examined by Themistocles Zammit in 1921, present artificially performed deformations.




he origins
The skulls we examined are dated 2500 B.C. (but may be even older) a date in which Malta's megalithic history ends, initiating a period of historical darkness and absence of population that will last about 300 years, until the arrival of the Phoenicians. These will begin to make Malta their Mediterranean outpost. The Phoenicians will also erect temples to the Mother Goddess in Malta, calling her Astarte, the snake-faced Goddess. Again we find the representation of a Goddess who is associated with the snake and healing powers, almost as if the Phoenicians wanted to continue an interrupted tradition. But it's the date of 2500 B.C. that presents a fundamental key of interpretation for understanding who these long-headed individuals were and to use it we must move from Malta to nearby Egypt.

Professor Walter B. Emery (1903-1971), the famous Egyptologist, author of "Archaic Egypt", who excavated at Saqqara in the 30's, indeed discovered the remains of individuals who lived in pre-dynastic epoch. These presented a dolichocephalous skull, larger than that of the local ethnic group, fair hair and a taller, heavier build. Emery declared that this stock wasn't indigenous to Egypt but had performed an important sacerdotal and governmental role in this country. This race kept its distance from the common people, blending only with the aristocratic classes and the scholar associated them with the Shemsu Hor, the "disciples of Horus".

The layout of the building is quite complex, perhaps the most complex of any of the temples, and the design is very sophisticated. Its most dramatic feature was the use of exceptionally tall stone uprights, which would have been highly visible for miles around. As you approach the site, you are immediately impressed by the building’s façade of carefully dressed megalithic blocks. The tallest ones were at the corners and had been notched to accommodate two horizontal courses running between them—in short, looking very similar to the model found at Tarxien. The pillars and lintels that make up the trilithon doorway have been compared to those of the Lion Gate at Mycenae built some two thousand years later. To either side was a low stone bench that runs the whole length of the façade. In front is a block with a V perforation—a feature that is found at some other sites and is generally thought to be for tethering animals.

It would appear that the original plan was for a ‘standard’ four or five-apse temple (Spaces 1-6) but instead of a terminal apse or niche there is another doorway at the rear of the building. It would appear that at some point the decision was taken to add more rooms (10-13) to the south and the external wall was substantially rebuilt to accommodate them. As was the case at other temples, such as Tarxien, one of the apses (6) was remodelled to provide access.

The main doorway led to a small court (1) with apses on either side. However, each of these apses are screened off by thin megalithic slabs. Access is through carved porthole in the central stone. To the left was an elaborately carved pedestal altar with reliefs of potted plants on all four sides and a slab with pitted and spiral decoration. Five statues were found here, including the so-called ‘Venus of Hagar Qim,’ in the 1830’s along with another four in the adjacent Apse 2. Apart from the figures, little was found in either of the rather plainly finished outer apses.

Further along, Apse 5 is characterized by fairly uniform megalithic architecture with a line of orthostats of uniform height supporting a number of courses of corbeled masonry. Inside the room is a curved setting of smaller upright slabs set just inside the wall. David Trump offers the opinion that it was some sort of animal pen but this cannot be proven. In the wall is small aperture known as an ‘oracle hole’ that connects the room to a small shrine (16) on the exterior of the building. In this case, however, the hole is positioned so that the light of the rising sun shines into the apse on the day of the summer solstice.

Down the centuries, the Maltese have developed a clever system of underground tunnels, called galleries, to extract the water for human consumption.

Salt rise

About 97m (320ft) beneath the surface of the island lie the Ta' Kandja galleries. Reached by a lift, the tunnels stretch out for several kilometres like the spokes of a wheel, all half-filled with water that is pumped up to the surface and then to homes and farms around the island.

The water in the tunnels is fresh. But just 10m below, it is salty. And thanks to climate change the brackish water is rising.

http://www.sott.net/signs/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2299
Officials dont even deny that there is maze of tunnels streching all over this tiny island.
There is even a legend (I still regard it as urban myth but I wouldnt be surprised at all if this was true) that there is one tunnel which links Malta with Sicily.
British Colonial forces seem to have explored this maze of tunnels the best but as far as explanation for the public goes only their existance is acknowledged. yet we know very little of its origin and possible purpose.
I have been living on this beautiful island for almost 10 years now and one of the first things I noticed ( consciously I have became aware of it only after some time) is extraordinary energy this rocky Island vibrates with.

There is evidence of ancient civilizations all over the place and few megalithic temples that still stand are still very impressive.
Also there are so called "cart ruts" which could be everything but cart ruts, some of them continuing on the sea bed.
Again there is no any data on culture that has produced these material objects and we can just speculate their real purpose. ( Cassiopeian explanation for Cart Ruts is quite close to what I have always guessed)

Talking back about the maze of tunnels it is very strange that one of the first thing that British government did was to seal the most of these tunnels.
End then there is an incident that took place shortly before WWII. Again I thought this was another urban myth until I found out there was even National Geographic ( issue 1940 if I am not mistaken) coverage of this story. also recently I talked to my friends grandparents who are native islanders and who still remeber the whole story:

Hypogeum is underground temple situated centraly in the island , official explanation is that this is a neolitic human sacrifice site as multitude of human bones was found here. The place is really astonishing with spiral shaped underground dome and extrourdinary accoustic properties. To me it looks as if some sound magic was preformed here many years ago.
Anyways, this place is connected to above mentione maze of tunnels and after the incident British Governor ordered 99 percent of coridors at this site to be sealed with concrete blocks. The place is open to the public but admission is controled and restricted to small groups. The level of supervision imposed on the visits to this place is something I have never seen at any archeological site.

"The enigmatic cart ruts are too obvious in the Maltese rocky landscape to be ignored in any work, however concise, on Maltese archeology even though they are still not easy to locate in the chronological sequence. according to the traditional view, they should be placed in prehistory, more precisely in the Bronze Age, the main argument being that some specimens are cut by "Punic" tombs and, therefore, should be prior to that period. The validity of this argument is, in my view, highly questionable particularly since for Temi Zammit, its originator, 'Punic' could mean anything from the 7th century BC to the 3rd century AD, especially as far as tombs are concerned.

"In my search and study of ancient quarries over the last fifteen years, I found cart ruts very frequently, almost invariably, associated with them. The best example is, perhaps, the Buskett group which lies next to the largest and most important of Malta's ancient quarries. For this reason I cannot refrain from believing that they were intended for the transportation of construction blocks from the quarry face to the road in ancient (i.e., not prehistoric) times.

"This view is supported by a good number of parallels abroad (for instance in Sicily, southern France and Greece) as well as by their concentration in several areas around Melite which must have required a constant supply of ashlar masonry for its buildings. "


"More emigrants from Sicily came to the island around 3200 BC. An astonishing number of megalithic temples were constructed between BC. The still extant temples, some thirty in number, exhibit a highly developed plan and superstructure

...This population possibly followed warlike immigrants from western Greece...

The strange 'cart-ruts' belong to the same period."

http://www.sott.net/signs/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2299


Now, the problem with this cart rut theory is the following: When you look at these furrows impressed in the ground, most of them parallel as they should be, the natural thing is to think of them as ruts. But, apparently, close examination - according to Von Danniken - shows that they CANNOT have been ruts in the ordinary sense of the word. The reason is that the tracks of the two parallel furrows are not only DIFFERENT FROM RUT TO RUT! but also vary in the course of a single stretch!

They run through valleys, over hills, and sometimes exist in several "pairs" side by side which then unite into single two track stretches, followed by sudden curves. They also run off straight into the Mediterranean. Others end abruptly at cliff edges.

They are from 65 to 123 cm wide. The furrows themselves are frequently over 70 cm DEEP! At one place, on rut runs in a curve over a hill and cuts 72 cm into the limestone ground. If a cart ever ran in these ruts, it could not have taken a curve because of the great depth of the ruts! Either the axle would have vanished in the deep imprint or the axle must have been at least 72 cm high which would have given the wheel a diameter of 1.5 cm. But that presents the problem that such a large wheel could NOT have taken such a tight curve! It would get stuck or break.




As noted, in many places, the ruts run straight into the waters of the Mediterranean. It was assumed until recently that the ruts would end underwater a few meters from the coast, which would suggest that they had originated when the sea level of the Mediterranean was lower. However, divers have discovered that the ruts continue in the stone to great depths below sea level.

Only two or three years back there were press reports of a city and temple discovered in the Western Sahara that were an estimated 15,000 years old (13,000 BC). Those reports vanished after a couple of days. No denials, just no nothing.

Construction of the Jericho site apparently began before the invention of agriculture, with the construction of stone structures beginning earlier than 9000 BCE, which is known as the Natufian culture. There is speculation these were of a spiritual nature, rather than dwellings or fortifications. However archaeologists claim that Jericho is the "oldest city in the world," though there is now competition from the Urfa Culture in southern Turkey. Neverheless, such monumental construction reflects social organization and central authority as well as agricultural surpluses. though there are doubts that the fortification completely date to the 8000 BCE. The wall was built of large Cyclopean stones which supported a mudbrick wall above it. Discovered and excavated by Kathleen Kenyon in her Trench I, the Neolithic tower was built and destroyed in Pre-Pottery Neolithic A, which Kenyon dated to 8000-7000 BCE. The 8m diameter tower stands 8m tall and was connected on the inside of a 4m thick wall.

Definition: Catal Hoyuk is an Early Neolithic site in Turkey (6300-5500 BC), and so far the oldest civilization on earth. Çatalhöyük, as it is spelled in Turkish, represents a village of 300 mud brick and plaster residences, based on a farming economy--in fact, the first farming community we've found to date. Its most striking and famous features are the shrines dedicated to what has been called the "Mother Goddess."

Problem is, these are not at all the "Oldest Man Made Structures."

Note:


Source

Also


Source

I should add that, last I read, many megalithic structures around Malta could not be dated due to the absence of any contextual materials. So it is possible that the Maltese megalithic structures could be much older (some of them.)

Harte

Classically, the Iron Age is taken to begin in the 12th century BC in the ancient Near East, ancient Persia, ancient India (with the post-Rigvedic Vedic civilization), and ancient Greece (with the Greek Dark Ages). In other regions of Europe, it started much later. The Iron Age began in the 8th century BC in Central Europe and the 6th century BC in Northern Europe. Iron use, in smelting and forging for tools, appears in West Africa by 1200 BC, making it one of the first places for the birth of the Iron Age.[1][2][3]

The Iron Age is divided into two subsections, Iron I and Iron II. Iron I (1200-1000) illustrates both continuity and discontinuity with the previous Late Bronze Age. There is no definitive cultural break between the thirteenth and twelfth century throughout the entire region, although certain new features in the hill country, Transjordan and coastal region may suggest the appearance of the Aramaean and Sea People groups. There is evidence, however, that shows strong continuity with Bronze Age culture, although as one moves later into Iron I the culture begins to diverge more significantly from that of the late second millennium.

The Iron Age is usually said to end in the Mediterranean with the onset of historical tradition during Hellenism and the Roman Empire, in India with the onset of Buddhism and Jainism, in China with the onset of Confucianism, and in Northern Europe with the early Middle Ages.

The bit about the metal vase notwithstanding, how can science contradict itself all the time, and still expect people to believe all of orthodox science?

From Wikipedia:


So if an iron pot is found in 300 million year old coal, who is correct? The people who gave us the dates of the ages ie: bronze age, iron age etc., or the dudes who are experts in determining the age of the coal?

So if an iron pot is found in 300 million year old coal, who is correct? The people who gave us the dates of the ages ie: bronze age, iron age etc., or the dudes who are experts in determining the age of the coal?

Hi crystal sage,

I am new here, but wanted to point out a few things. The first is that the picture you posted of teeth is kind of misleading, as regards the 9000 year old dentistry reference. The caption underneath the original suggests Classical Mayan period which is during the first millenium AD. I realize the original site mentions the 9000 year old time frame further down the page, it's just not in relation to your picture.

Also, as regards the 100,000 year old Metal Vase. What dating technique was used to determine that? The Carbon 14 dating method didn't come along until nearly 100 years after it was found.

cormac

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...eeth_drill.html
Human teeth excavated from an archaeological site in Pakistan show that dentistry was thriving as recently as 9,000 years ago.

Iron Pot Found in Coal in 1912

Oklahoma, mines is said to contain coal that formed about 312 million years ago. This would predate the dinosaurs by about 87 million years (according to the widely accepted evolutionary theory). Most people are not aware that many human artifacts have reportedly been found in coal. One such find occurred in 1912 at the Municipal Electric Plant in Thomas, Oklahoma. Frank Kennard was breaking a piece of coal to throw it into the furnace. As he broke it this iron pot fell from the center of the coal.
http://creationtruthministries.org/answers.html

WHERE? Where? where is this city and temple you speak of???

Report from Reuters-

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=

RABAT (Reuters) - The remains of a prehistoric town believed to date back 15,000 years and belong to an ancient Berber civilization have been
discovered in Western Sahara, Moroccan state media said on Thursday.
A team of Moroccan scientists stumbled across the sand-covered ruins of the town Arghilas deep in the desert of the Morocco-administered territory.
The remains of a place of worship, houses and a necropolis, as well as columns and rock engravings depicting animals, were found at the site near the town of Aousserd in northeastern Western Sahara.
The isolated area is known to be rich in prehistoric rock engravings but experts said the discovery could be significant if proven that the ruins were of Berber origin as this civilization is believed to date back only some 9,000 years.
"It appears that scientists have come up with the 15,000-years estimate judging by the style of the engravings and the theme of the drawings," Mustapha Ouachi, a Rabat-based Berber historian, told Reuters.
Berbers are the original inhabitants of North Africa before Arabs came to spread Islam in the seventh century.
The population of Western Sahara, seized by Morocco in 1975 when former colonial power Spain pulled out, are mostly of Berber and Arab descent.

i managed to find this news report, although it is no longer available on the reuters website.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...howtopic=118101

the great Garamantian Empire. This civilization held power in the Sahara for over 1000 years. Recent archaeological work has revealed that the desert civilization known to the Romans as the Garamantes constructed almost a thousand miles of underground tunnels and shafts in order to mine long-buried fossil water. These remarkable people are the ancestors of the present-day Tuareg, the famed "Blue Men of the desert "- because their robes are frequently dyed indigo blue.

http://www.the153club.org/herodo.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-166944397.html
The Garamantes masters of the Sahara: the Garamantes of Libya have been dismissed by everyone from the Romans to 20th-century scholars as irrelevant desert pastoralists and nomads. But now, new research has revealed that they had a sophisticated civilisation and represented one of the most powerful kingdoms in North Africa.(LIBYAN ARCHAEOLOGY)

Regarding the sites in Malta, Graham Hancock did write quite extensively about them in one of his books. I think it was underworld.
He seemed to think that a lot of Malta's history was kept out of the public eye because it does not tally with established archaeological theory.

In addition, American archaeologists discovered prehistoric copper mines at Isle Royale in northern Michigan. Even the Indian natives whose ancestors had lived in the region for centuries didn't know the existence of the mines. The mine sites present evidence that prehistoric mining activities produced several thousand tons of copper, but archeologists did not find any trace of long-term habitation near the mines.

Now we turn to the second major theme in the copper culture myth, that of the dogma of the missing copper. Where did all the copper go? This theme is formulated on a calculus of mythic arithmetic, a prehistoric numbers game! The mythic calculations involve the numbers and depths of copper extraction pits, the numbers and weights of stone hammers, the percentage volume of copper per mining pit, the numbers of miners, and the years of mining duration. Ultimately, the mix of these numbers yields the alleged total amount of extracted prehistoric copper, that being in the range of 1 to 1.5 billion pounds. It's difficult to attribute this branch of mathematics to any one individual, but if there's credit to be given, it should be given first to Drier and Du Temple (Drier and Du Temple 1961) and then to a Chicago-area writer named Henrietta Mertz, who lays out her numerology proposals in a book entitled Atlantis: Dwelling Place of the Gods (Mertz 1967). In contrast, I propose that none of these numbers, save those related to the weight of the hammers, are actually knowable in an empirical sense. We'll start then on our firmest ground, the weights of the hammers.

The strangest discovery has to be the Lion coal mine in Utah. In 1953, miners unexpectedly discovered a tunnel in the mine that had never recorded. The coal in that tunnel was oxidized and had lost its commercial value — proof that previous mining had been done in this area. In August 1953, two scholars from the Department of Engineering and the Department of Ancient Anthropology at the University of Utah investigated the mine, declaring that the local Indians had never used coal. Both the Isle Royale copper mine and the Lion coal mine present evidence that prehistoric miners developed technology to extract and transport coal to distant places

[PI editors have not been able to find independent evidence confirming the existence of these two mines.].

Hello Harte,

Long time, no see. Got to hand it to you, you definitely know how to come out swinging.

I tend to agree with you, but what kills me is this. Why do people always seem to reference websites, etc., that make claims of objects "found" in West Virginia. Mostly in the 1800's/early 1900's. Does no one realize how scarcely populated West Virginia was back then. Especially the western and southern parts of the state. Also, there was no real dating method to coal back then, other than the deeper it was found the older it was assumed to be.

Also, like you said, showing something was found in coal and claiming it was found in coal are two entirely different things.

Sorry, but the claims dealing with West Virginia are a pet peeve of mine. As I stated before, many of my family are miners. Guess where. Southern West Virginia. My own grandfather and great uncle used to tell stories of how gullible people where when someone told them they "found" something out of place in a coal mine. It used to be a running joke amongst the miners back home.

cormac

What a load of happy crappy.

There has never, ever, been any \"artifact\" found \"embedded in coal.\" There have only been artifacts presented to the public and claimed to have been found embedded in coal.

Funny how it never strikes some people as odd that none of these \"coal-embedded\" \"proofs\" are ever shown even partially embedded in coal.

Sites linked to here with this ridiculous \"evidence\" have in common one thing - they all wish to dismiss archaeology as either controlled by conspiracy or completely and overwhelmingly incorrect in every inter-related dating ever determined by science.

Most such sites are doing one or the other (or both) in order to discredit science itself in a last-ditch attempt to promote \"creationism\" (or it\'s evil twin \"intelligent\" design.)

Most of the claims made at the sites C.S. (and others) link to here have been completely debunked in the past, right here at Unexplained Mysteries, yet we still have to look at this so-called \"evidence?\"

I note the following at one of the linked sites:


That is complete rubbish. HERE is a paper written by a State Archaeologist that worked in that area of Michigan for decades, along with a quote from the paper:

The link posted above can be found at Doug\'s Archaeology Site. I already told you all, several times, to go read the material there. The fact that CS has not done so says as much about her as it does about the paucity of her so-called \"evidence.\"

It is known that American natives used copper. It is also known that some of this copper came from the site mentioned in Michigan. Maybe most of you are unaware that there remains at that site pure copper available at the surface.

Duh.

Also there was this:


Boy, I\'d like to see this \"ancient coal mine.\" I\'d also like to see the \"ancient copper mines.\"
Wouldn\'t you?

Too bad, then, because the editors at that site also say:



IOW, these mines don\'t even exist!

Please.

Harte

A Short History of Copper Mining

copper mining in the upper peninsula of mi

Copper was first mined in this area by an ancient vanished race between 5,000 and 1,200 bc. These miners left no burial grounds, dwellings, pottery, clay tablets or cave drawings. What was left behind was thousands of copper producing pits and more thousands of crude hammering stones with which the pits had been worked. The ancients apparently worked the copper bearing rock by alternately using fire and cold water, to break the copper ore into smaller pieces from which they could extract the metal with hand held hammering stones or stone hatchets. With this copper, they made tools.

Scientists and engineers estimate that it would have required 10,000 men 1,000 years to develop the extensive operations carried on throughout the region. It is estimated that 1.5 billion pounds of copper were mined by these unknown people.
http://www.exploringthenorth.com/cophistory/cophist.html

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~bakk0029/Old_Copper/OC_Sec_3.HTML

1975
Taxonomic and Associational Considerations of Copper Technology During The Archaic Tradition. Ph.D. Dissertation, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis.

This source provides the first detailed information on four site related to the Old Copper complex. Pickerel Lake (aka \"Sarberg\"), collected 1968-71, is located in Quetico Park, southwest Ontario. Copper artifacts were found along a beach and rocky shore ky campers, along with corner notched lithic points. There were indications of copper manufacture. Steinbring examines that possibility that this site, which strongly resembles the McCollum site, may represent the last vestiges of the Old Copper complex. Tulabi Falls, Whiteshell Provincial Park, Manitoba, was excavated in 1972. The site contained 4 copper artifacts, rich faunal remains and no signs of copper manufacture. Whitemouth Falls on the Winnipeg River in Manitoba produced 1 copper artifact. The site is deeply stratified, with a middle stratum radiocarbon date of 4860 + 150 suggesting that the earliest strata may be 7000 years old. Houska Point on the Rainey Lake in Ranier, Minnesota was excavated in 1970-71. The stratigraphy was significantly disturbed. The site produced approximately 600 copper artifacts, all characterized as fragile. Two gracile socketed forms were found in ceramic strata, and a possible socket fragment in a pre-ceramic strata. Trim bits and nuggets eroding from adjacent shoreline indicated copper manufacture on the site. (See Rapp 1984 regarding raw material source of the copper here.) Steinbring 1975 is cross-listed und er Section I with notes on other contents.

http://www.kilts.co.nz/mitancient.htm
View ancient sites near Hamilton

Revisit Ancient Celtic / Viking New Zealand (?).

Investigate the controversial subject of anomalies in New Zealand . New Zealand has a deliberately suppressed pre-Maori, pre-Taupo eruption history. Authorities have jealously hidden our pre-history. Evidence that contradicts conventional historical attitudes which are essentially that NZ has no pre-Maori human history is deliberately hidden, ignored or destroyed.

Maori secrecy aided by DOC and our National Archivists confound, obstruct and generally set about to prevent investigation. Maori spiritualist values, tapu, secret folk lore and general obstructions under the guise of cultural sensitivity are used to prevent investigations on land and in national archives.

There has never, ever, been any "artifact" found "embedded in coal." There have only been artifacts presented to the public and claimed to have been found embedded in coal.

Report from Reuters-

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=6021742

RABAT (Reuters) - The remains of a prehistoric town believed to date back 15,000 years and belong to an ancient Berber civilization have been
discovered in Western Sahara, Moroccan state media said on Thursday.
A team of Moroccan scientists stumbled across the sand-covered ruins of the town Arghilas deep in the desert of the Morocco-administered territory.
The remains of a place of worship, houses and a necropolis, as well as columns and rock engravings depicting animals, were found at the site near the town of Aousserd in northeastern Western Sahara.
The isolated area is known to be rich in prehistoric rock engravings but experts said the discovery could be significant if proven that the ruins were of Berber origin as this civilization is believed to date back only some 9,000 years.
"It appears that scientists have come up with the 15,000-years estimate judging by the style of the engravings and the theme of the drawings," Mustapha Ouachi, a Rabat-based Berber historian, told Reuters.
Berbers are the original inhabitants of North Africa before Arabs came to spread Islam in the seventh century.
The population of Western Sahara, seized by Morocco in 1975 when former colonial power Spain pulled out, are mostly of Berber and Arab descent.

i managed to find this news report, although it is no longer available on the reuters website.