Full Version: Demonic Possession
I was just reading an article about demonic possession and it got me to thinking..... Pretty much all the tales of demonic possession include the possessee speaking a language unknown to them, this particular article had the possessee speaking in latin and spanish. Which bought up the question If a demon is to possess you, why does it speak in a language known to humans? Wether the individual being possessed knows the language or not. Why wouldn't the demon speak a language of it's own? I'm pretty sure demons and the like have their own language just like us humans do? I have never read an article where the possessee has spoken a language completley unknown to humans. Why do you think this is? Can it be put down to some sort of mental illness rather than possession? Or do the possessing spirits/demons actually care/want humans to know what they are on about? I myself am sceptical about possessions..... What are your thoughts?
My view on possesions is a little different than most. As I see it some aspect of a person's subconscious aligns itself with a particular energy we would call demonic and takes over the conscious control of a person to some degree. When it speaks it would use a human language because that is what it understands as a human expression.
There actually is no evil greater than that found within the human being IMO. Some day we may understand why there is unconditional Godly love for All That Is and our concept of evil will shift. This demonic energy will be recognized as an unloved aspect within the self.
John
There actually is no evil greater than that found within the human being IMO. Some day we may understand why there is unconditional Godly love for All That Is and our concept of evil will shift. This demonic energy will be recognized as an unloved aspect within the self.
John
There is no such thing as demonic posession. natasnatasnatas... damn.
Welcome back to the Middle ages. What's next ? Burning witches again ? 
from: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-50...-war-Satan.html
The Pope has ordered his bishops to set up exorcism squads to tackle the rise of Satanism.
Vatican chiefs are concerned at what they see as an increased interest in the occult.
They have introduced courses for priests to combat what they call the most extreme form of "Godlessness."
Each bishop is to be told to have in his diocese a number of priests trained to fight demonic possession.
The initiative was revealed by 82-year-old Father Gabriele Amorth, the Vatican "exorcistinchief," to the online Catholic news service Petrus.
"Thanks be to God, we have a Pope who has decided to fight the Devil head-on," he said.
"Too many bishops are not taking this seriously and are not delegating their priests in the fight against the Devil. You have to hunt high and low for a properly trained exorcist.
"Thankfully, Benedict XVI believes in the existence and danger of evil - going back to the time he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith." The CDF is the oldest Vatican department and was headed by Benedict from 1982, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, until he became Pope in 2005.
Father Amorth said that during his time at the department Benedict had not lost the chance to warn humanity of the risk from the Devil.
He said the Pope wants to restore a prayer seen as protection against evil that was traditionally recited at the end of Catholic Masses. The prayer, to St Michael the Archangel, was dropped in the 1960s by Pope John XXIII.
Scroll down for more...
The Exorcist
The 1973 film The Exorcist deals with the demonic possession of a young girl: Now the Pope wants specialist exorcism squads in every parish
"The prayer is useful not only for priests but also for lay people in helping to fight demons," he said.
Father Paolo Scarafoni, who lectures on the Vatican's exorcism course, said interest in Satanism and the occult has grown as people lost faith with the church.
He added: "People suffer and think that turning to the Devil can help solve their problems. We are being bombarded by requests for exorcisms."
The Vatican is particularly concerned that young people are being exposed to the influence of Satanic sects through rock music and the Internet.
In theory, under the Catholic Church's Canon Law 1172, all priests can perform exorcisms. But in reality only a select few are assigned the task.
Under the law, practitioners must have "piety, knowledge, prudence, and integrity of life."
The rite of exorcism involves a series of gestures and prayers to invoke the power of God and stop the "demon" influencing its victim.
from: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-50...-war-Satan.html
The Pope has ordered his bishops to set up exorcism squads to tackle the rise of Satanism.
Vatican chiefs are concerned at what they see as an increased interest in the occult.
They have introduced courses for priests to combat what they call the most extreme form of "Godlessness."
Each bishop is to be told to have in his diocese a number of priests trained to fight demonic possession.
The initiative was revealed by 82-year-old Father Gabriele Amorth, the Vatican "exorcistinchief," to the online Catholic news service Petrus.
"Thanks be to God, we have a Pope who has decided to fight the Devil head-on," he said.
"Too many bishops are not taking this seriously and are not delegating their priests in the fight against the Devil. You have to hunt high and low for a properly trained exorcist.
"Thankfully, Benedict XVI believes in the existence and danger of evil - going back to the time he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith." The CDF is the oldest Vatican department and was headed by Benedict from 1982, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, until he became Pope in 2005.
Father Amorth said that during his time at the department Benedict had not lost the chance to warn humanity of the risk from the Devil.
He said the Pope wants to restore a prayer seen as protection against evil that was traditionally recited at the end of Catholic Masses. The prayer, to St Michael the Archangel, was dropped in the 1960s by Pope John XXIII.
Scroll down for more...
The Exorcist
The 1973 film The Exorcist deals with the demonic possession of a young girl: Now the Pope wants specialist exorcism squads in every parish
"The prayer is useful not only for priests but also for lay people in helping to fight demons," he said.
Father Paolo Scarafoni, who lectures on the Vatican's exorcism course, said interest in Satanism and the occult has grown as people lost faith with the church.
He added: "People suffer and think that turning to the Devil can help solve their problems. We are being bombarded by requests for exorcisms."
The Vatican is particularly concerned that young people are being exposed to the influence of Satanic sects through rock music and the Internet.
In theory, under the Catholic Church's Canon Law 1172, all priests can perform exorcisms. But in reality only a select few are assigned the task.
Under the law, practitioners must have "piety, knowledge, prudence, and integrity of life."
The rite of exorcism involves a series of gestures and prayers to invoke the power of God and stop the "demon" influencing its victim.
Thanks for all that but it still dosen't really answer my question..... why do demons who possess someone speak in a language known to man? Why don't they speak their own?
QUOTE (darrkmoonbride @ Jun 17 2008, 08:27 AM) 
Thanks for all that but it still dosen't really answer my question..... why do demons who possess someone speak in a language known to man? Why don't they speak their own?
I can't find anything on it.
An ex-boyfriend of mine used to speak what sounded like latin in his sleep on a regular basis. It really freaked me out, but years later I realized that he was an alter boy in a catholic church. So I figure he got it from there.
So, if payment is not made to an exorcist can you get repossessed ?
QUOTE (darrkmoonbride @ Jun 17 2008, 07:27 AM)
Thanks for all that but it still dosen't really answer my question..... why do demons who possess someone speak in a language known to man? Why don't they speak their own?
*ahem* because they dont Have their own, because they are Not Real, so they have to use Our language, when they claim they are possesed. so people can try to understand it. instead of...
"blannata ooohuaha yuyuyu. ohattan. eeooe tagruuudo. mxyzptlk"
Hi dmb. Demons could clearly speak the common language of the audience in the New Testament (Luke 4:33-35 and Luke 8:29-31). In the Old Testament it claims mediums and wizards can whisper and mutter (Isaiah 8:19-20) and some take that as speaking in a language not understood by the audience and some go further and to ascribe this to oracles whom only those assisting and in the service of the oracle would be able to translate. Whether this is a language that was real at any time and the audience could not understand or whether it was not a language cannot be known for fact.
My answer though to the main question is perhaps they speak other languages just for show as in 'theatrical performance' and 'showmanship'. Sadly many exorcisms have this element of a show with people in the audience, some getting emotional, much yelling, the use of holy water and the Bible as mere stage pieces, and even conversations with the entity to drag it out. None of this IMHO is the proper way of exorcising a demon and none of this is reflected in the New Testament. There should not really be an audience either but the area should be clear of weaker persons so the spirits can not enter them. Many Protestant churches make use of this element of showmanship when exorcising.
According to wikipedia the Catholic Church calls for a person to undergo medical evaluation first to insure the person is not mentally ill instead. One of their signs though that someone is possessed is that they will speak a tongue not known to them or ever having being learned. They also are adverse to holy objects and such.
Also according to wikipedia other cultures and religions have their own exorcism even if they do not consider what they are exorcising as demons in the same concept as Christians. Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Scientology are a few.
I have seen documentaries regarding Hindu exorcism so I know they do exist. Also the concept of Muslims believing in the existence of Jinn is documented but I am not sure how far that extends and how many Muslims believe in such a concept.
My answer though to the main question is perhaps they speak other languages just for show as in 'theatrical performance' and 'showmanship'. Sadly many exorcisms have this element of a show with people in the audience, some getting emotional, much yelling, the use of holy water and the Bible as mere stage pieces, and even conversations with the entity to drag it out. None of this IMHO is the proper way of exorcising a demon and none of this is reflected in the New Testament. There should not really be an audience either but the area should be clear of weaker persons so the spirits can not enter them. Many Protestant churches make use of this element of showmanship when exorcising.
According to wikipedia the Catholic Church calls for a person to undergo medical evaluation first to insure the person is not mentally ill instead. One of their signs though that someone is possessed is that they will speak a tongue not known to them or ever having being learned. They also are adverse to holy objects and such.
Also according to wikipedia other cultures and religions have their own exorcism even if they do not consider what they are exorcising as demons in the same concept as Christians. Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Scientology are a few.
I have seen documentaries regarding Hindu exorcism so I know they do exist. Also the concept of Muslims believing in the existence of Jinn is documented but I am not sure how far that extends and how many Muslims believe in such a concept.
Why do demons only bother religious people and never bother unbelievers ,IMHO it's all in the mind
fullywired
fullywired
Why would demons want to bother those who do not believe in God when the devil already has them on their side? This would be the standard response to that question...I do not doubt though that for some people it is all in their mind and all they need is medical intervention.
QUOTE (fullywired @ Jun 17 2008, 05:23 AM)
Why do demons only bother religious people and never bother unbelievers ,IMHO it's all in the mind
fullywired
fullywired
I think this is an assumption. Obviously, one who is a believer might ascribe many mental illnesses to demonic possession, while one who is not a believer may ascribe demonic possession to a mental illness. Having been in the presence of people who are possessed and people who are mentally ill, it is easy to see how either could happen. I have experienced several people whose possession manifested itself usually as something which could have been diagnosed as schizophrenia if it wasn't for the objects moving about the room on their own. So, there may well be unbelievers who are possessed but who have been diagnosed as being mentally ill by mental health professionals who failed to see things like objects moving about on their own, or who chose to ignore those "symptoms."
QUOTE (IamsSon @ Jun 17 2008, 09:05 AM)
I think this is an assumption. Obviously, one who is a believer might ascribe many mental illnesses to demonic possession, while one who is not a believer may ascribe demonic possession to a mental illness. Having been in the presence of people who are possessed and people who are mentally ill, it is easy to see how either could happen. I have experienced several people whose possession manifested itself usually as something which could have been diagnosed as schizophrenia if it wasn't for the objects moving about the room on their own. So, there may well be unbelievers who are possessed but who have been diagnosed as being mentally ill by mental health professionals who failed to see things like objects moving about on their own, or who chose to ignore those "symptoms."
And then, with the proper psychiatric care, medication and time, the "possessed" unbelievers make progress and symptoms lessen. So Thorazine and Seroquel and other anti-psychotics are also anti-demonics?
QUOTE (SunDogDayze @ Jun 17 2008, 08:10 AM)
And then, with the proper psychiatric care, medication and time, the "possessed" unbelievers make progress and symptoms lessen. So Thorazine and Seroquel and other anti-psychotics are also anti-demonics?
Notice I said there are mental illnesses that some believers (mostly those who see anything bad as clear indication of demonic activity) assume to be definite signs of demonic possession. Very few Christians (percentage-wise) believe any and all signs of mental illness are an indication of possession.
However, the fact that symptoms seem to be controlled through medication may not actually mean the situation (if it is demonic possession) is actually under control.
QUOTE
If a demon is to possess you, why does it speak in a language known to humans? Wether the individual being possessed knows the language or not. Why wouldn't the demon speak a language of it's own?
I guess the point of anyone speaking at all is to be understood by the intended audience.
Why do English-speaking visitors to Paris suddenly start speaking French?
QUOTE (IamsSon @ Jun 17 2008, 10:19 AM)
Notice I said there are mental illnesses that some believers (mostly those who see anything bad as clear indication of demonic activity) assume to be definite signs of demonic possession. Very few Christians (percentage-wise) believe any and all signs of mental illness are an indication of possession.
However, the fact that symptoms seem to be controlled through medication may not actually mean the situation (if it is demonic possession) is actually under control.
However, the fact that symptoms seem to be controlled through medication may not actually mean the situation (if it is demonic possession) is actually under control.
Actually, I didn't notice where you specified that "mostly those who see anything bad as a clear indication of demonic activity" are the only ones who believe that a possession can be misdiagnosed as a mental disorder. You didn't say that.
You actually said that you believe that there have been cases where a physician has misdiagnosed an patient because they ignored the objects flying around the room. Are you one who sees anything bad as a clear indication of demonic activity?
And, I am wondering if anyone has ever gone to a psychiatrist and said "Hey, doc. I hear evil voices, I hallucinate grotesque things, I sometimes think I have been invaded by another being. I think I may have schizophrenia, but I don't know what to make of this." And starts moving objects around the room. The reason that 'symptom' is ignored is because it's never been substantially documented.
QUOTE (darrkmoonbride @ Jun 17 2008, 02:46 AM)
I was just reading an article about demonic possession and it got me to thinking..... Pretty much all the tales of demonic possession include the possessee speaking a language unknown to them, this particular article had the possessee speaking in latin and spanish. Which bought up the question If a demon is to possess you, why does it speak in a language known to humans? Wether the individual being possessed knows the language or not. Why wouldn't the demon speak a language of it's own? I'm pretty sure demons and the like have their own language just like us humans do? I have never read an article where the possessee has spoken a language completley unknown to humans. Why do you think this is? Can it be put down to some sort of mental illness rather than possession? Or do the possessing spirits/demons actually care/want humans to know what they are on about? I myself am sceptical about possessions..... What are your thoughts?
Although, like yourself, I am skeptical of possessions (and of there being such entities as demons) I would imagine the simplest explanation (from the believers persepctive) of why the demonically possessed speak human languages is one of communication. If you were to journey to the interior of the Amazon to meet one of the 'lost' tribes would you communicate by speaking (or attempting to speak) their language?
QUOTE (Clovis @ Jun 17 2008, 01:10 PM)
Why would demons want to bother those who do not believe in God when the devil already has them on their side? This would be the standard response to that question...I do not doubt though that for some people it is all in their mind and all they need is medical intervention.
id say for pretty much All of them. and i wouldnt want to see someone suffer at the hands of some fool throwing holy water on them, and reading from the bible, when the person needs Real help, or medical attention.
QUOTE (SunDogDayze @ Jun 17 2008, 10:00 AM)
Actually, I didn't notice where you specified that "mostly those who see anything bad as a clear indication of demonic activity" are the only ones who believe that a possession can be misdiagnosed as a mental disorder. You didn't say that.
You're right. I was speaking in very broad terms. I said a believer might ascribe any mental illness to demonic possession while a non-believer might make the opposite assumption. So please take my later post as a clarification. But also note that I did not say that medication intended to treat mental illness would solve a demonic possession.QUOTE
You actually said that you believe that there have been cases where a physician has misdiagnosed an patient because they ignored the objects flying around the room. Are you one who sees anything bad as a clear indication of demonic activity?
No, I didn't. I said there may well be cases where doctors diagnosed a demonic possession as a mental illness and simply discounted those symptoms--such as objects moving about on their own--which might indicate this was more than just mental illness.QUOTE
And, I am wondering if anyone has ever gone to a psychiatrist and said "Hey, doc. I hear evil voices, I hallucinate grotesque things, I sometimes think I have been invaded by another being. I think I may have schizophrenia, but I don't know what to make of this." And starts moving objects around the room. The reason that 'symptom' is ignored is because it's never been substantially documented.
That is a possibility I guess.QUOTE (Agent. Mulder @ Jun 17 2008, 12:31 PM)
id say for pretty much All of them. and i wouldnt want to see someone suffer at the hands of some fool throwing holy water on them, and reading from the bible, when the person needs Real help, or medical attention.
Not all exorcisms are done by throwing holy water and reading from the Bible. Many Christians do not even believe in holy water...
...most demons can be banished through sincere prayer and changing whatever activity has offered them permission to oppress or possess.
Either way most people with issues might not even need medical attention or meds...which can only make situations worse in some case as far as meds go. They are vastly over prescribed especially to children but also adults because the medical industry is heavily profit driven and some doctors get more money every time they prescribe certain medication. Anyways it is most likely that the majority of exorcisms or spiritual deliverance is performed on adults who have chosen that for themselves.
QUOTE (Clovis @ Jun 17 2008, 07:38 PM)
Not all exorcisms are done by throwing holy water and reading from the Bible. Many Christians do not even believe in holy water...
...most demons can be banished through sincere prayer and changing whatever activity has offered them permission to oppress or possess.
Either way most people with issues might not even need medical attention or meds...which can only make situations worse in some case as far as meds go. They are vastly over prescribed especially to children but also adults because the medical industry is heavily profit driven and some doctors get more money every time they prescribe certain medication. Anyways it is most likely that the majority of exorcisms or spiritual deliverance is performed on adults who have chosen that for themselves.
...most demons can be banished through sincere prayer and changing whatever activity has offered them permission to oppress or possess.
Either way most people with issues might not even need medical attention or meds...which can only make situations worse in some case as far as meds go. They are vastly over prescribed especially to children but also adults because the medical industry is heavily profit driven and some doctors get more money every time they prescribe certain medication. Anyways it is most likely that the majority of exorcisms or spiritual deliverance is performed on adults who have chosen that for themselves.
prayer or holy water, wasnt saying they ALL do it that way, but you got my point.
its not fair to keep someone like that away from medicle care, by preforming these things and thinking they will help.
there is no such thing as possession. there are those easily led , mentally ill , very suggestible and those who crave attention.
I can take a piece of cold metal - hold it with a pot holder and tell you it was burning hot and touch you ..... a welt would form. try it. on anyone.
or take a coin and lay it on their arm and tell they it was hot or coated with a substance that will make them itch... same thing.
you can literally think red welts will appear for no reason and they will.
Now there may be a sort of possession in a way .......... religions and beliefs that think they are the one true way to God ..... politicians like Bush who think they can do as they please. this is really possession. a lie to one's self so deep they believe it.
I can take a piece of cold metal - hold it with a pot holder and tell you it was burning hot and touch you ..... a welt would form. try it. on anyone.
or take a coin and lay it on their arm and tell they it was hot or coated with a substance that will make them itch... same thing.
you can literally think red welts will appear for no reason and they will.
Now there may be a sort of possession in a way .......... religions and beliefs that think they are the one true way to God ..... politicians like Bush who think they can do as they please. this is really possession. a lie to one's self so deep they believe it.
QUOTE (Lt_Ripley @ Jun 17 2008, 07:43 PM)
there is no such thing as possession. there are those easily led , mentally ill , very suggestible and those who crave attention.
I can take a piece of cold metal - hold it with a pot holder and tell you it was burning hot and touch you ..... a welt would form. try it. on anyone.
or take a coin and lay it on their arm and tell they it was hot or coated with a substance that will make them itch... same thing.
you can literally think red welts will appear for no reason and they will.
Now there may be a sort of possession in a way .......... religions and beliefs that think they are the one true way to God ..... politicians like Bush who think they can do as they please. this is really possession. a lie to one's self so deep they believe it.
I can take a piece of cold metal - hold it with a pot holder and tell you it was burning hot and touch you ..... a welt would form. try it. on anyone.
or take a coin and lay it on their arm and tell they it was hot or coated with a substance that will make them itch... same thing.
you can literally think red welts will appear for no reason and they will.
Now there may be a sort of possession in a way .......... religions and beliefs that think they are the one true way to God ..... politicians like Bush who think they can do as they please. this is really possession. a lie to one's self so deep they believe it.
amen to that
QUOTE (Agent. Mulder @ Jun 17 2008, 01:42 PM)
prayer or holy water, wasnt saying they ALL do it that way, but you got my point.
its not fair to keep someone like that away from medicle care, by preforming these things and thinking they will help.
its not fair to keep someone like that away from medicle care, by preforming these things and thinking they will help.
I understand your point and highly disagree. All cultures have their own methods of ritual purification, exorcism, spiritual deliverance, or some other form of the same concept. It takes a bit of discernment from someone to tell if another has a negative entity in some form or another just as it takes someone trained in the medical field to diagnose an illness. Some people know clearly themselves if it is one or the other that is plaguing them, others might need help, there can be mistakes on both sides of spiritualist and physicians misdiagnosing. What ridding oneself of a negative entity can achieve is permanent. In many cases mental illness can only be treated and never fully healed. It would be a mistake to take the wrong course of action.
Modern psychiatry began with Muslims who built the first psychiatric facilities as well.
QUOTE (Lt_Ripley @ Jun 17 2008, 01:43 PM)
there is no such thing as possession. there are those easily led , mentally ill , very suggestible and those who crave attention.
I can take a piece of cold metal - hold it with a pot holder and tell you it was burning hot and touch you ..... a welt would form. try it. on anyone.
or take a coin and lay it on their arm and tell they it was hot or coated with a substance that will make them itch... same thing.
you can literally think red welts will appear for no reason and they will.
Now there may be a sort of possession in a way .......... religions and beliefs that think they are the one true way to God ..... politicians like Bush who think they can do as they please. this is really possession. a lie to one's self so deep they believe it.
I can take a piece of cold metal - hold it with a pot holder and tell you it was burning hot and touch you ..... a welt would form. try it. on anyone.
or take a coin and lay it on their arm and tell they it was hot or coated with a substance that will make them itch... same thing.
you can literally think red welts will appear for no reason and they will.
Now there may be a sort of possession in a way .......... religions and beliefs that think they are the one true way to God ..... politicians like Bush who think they can do as they please. this is really possession. a lie to one's self so deep they believe it.
So, in your opinion those of us who have experienced being in the presence of someone who is possessed were misled somehow?
QUOTE (Clovis @ Jun 17 2008, 01:10 PM)
Why would demons want to bother those who do not believe in God when the devil already has them on their side?
QUOTE (darrkmoonbride @ Jun 17 2008, 09:46 AM)
I was just reading an article about demonic possession and it got me to thinking..... Pretty much all the tales of demonic possession include the possessee speaking a language unknown to them, this particular article had the possessee speaking in latin and spanish. Which bought up the question If a demon is to possess you, why does it speak in a language known to humans? Wether the individual being possessed knows the language or not. Why wouldn't the demon speak a language of it's own? I'm pretty sure demons and the like have their own language just like us humans do? I have never read an article where the possessee has spoken a language completley unknown to humans. Why do you think this is? Can it be put down to some sort of mental illness rather than possession? Or do the possessing spirits/demons actually care/want humans to know what they are on about? I myself am sceptical about possessions..... What are your thoughts?
I am open to both possibilities. I believe that yes people can become possessed by malevolent entities (not necessarily in the biblical context). I believe such people can be falsely accused as being mentally ill and likewise mentally ill can be equally falsely accused of being possessed.
QUOTE (IamsSon @ Jun 17 2008, 03:01 PM)
So, in your opinion those of us who have experienced being in the presence of someone who is possessed were misled somehow?
yep. unless your a professional psychiatrist and can demonstrate they weren't ill , delusional , lying , attention seeking ........ yep . a polygraph test would be nice too.
QUOTE (fullywired @ Jun 17 2008, 02:24 PM)
Why would demons want to bother those who do not believe in God when the devil already has them on their side?
lol the natural response to this is the following but not saying who is saying it to whom...
“I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?”
Thank for all your responses people, i agree with most of the people who argued a medical ailment rather than possession, and also agree with the people who said that demons speak in an understandable language to get their message across, but, if that was the case then why not speak english to an english speaking person? Or latin to a latin speaking person? And if demons had no language of their own then how do they communicate with each other? I would also be interested in hearing if anyone here believes they have been possessed or had some kind of experience.
QUOTE (Lt_Ripley @ Jun 17 2008, 02:43 PM)
there is no such thing as possession. there are those easily led , mentally ill , very suggestible and those who crave attention.
I can take a piece of cold metal - hold it with a pot holder and tell you it was burning hot and touch you ..... a welt would form. try it. on anyone.
or take a coin and lay it on their arm and tell they it was hot or coated with a substance that will make them itch... same thing.
you can literally think red welts will appear for no reason and they will.
Now there may be a sort of possession in a way .......... religions and beliefs that think they are the one true way to God ..... politicians like Bush who think they can do as they please. this is really possession. a lie to one's self so deep they believe it.
I can take a piece of cold metal - hold it with a pot holder and tell you it was burning hot and touch you ..... a welt would form. try it. on anyone.
or take a coin and lay it on their arm and tell they it was hot or coated with a substance that will make them itch... same thing.
you can literally think red welts will appear for no reason and they will.
Now there may be a sort of possession in a way .......... religions and beliefs that think they are the one true way to God ..... politicians like Bush who think they can do as they please. this is really possession. a lie to one's self so deep they believe it.
You could tell them it's cold too and form a welt. Imagine that.
QUOTE
if that was the case then why not speak english to an english speaking person? Or latin to a latin speaking person?
At some point, I will notice that I am discussing the rational motivation of fairy tale characters. Until then, ... well, a fairy tale:
If I, hypothetically the demonic resident in a strangely behaved hamster, were to say to you: "Quis custodiet custodes?" You would probably say "Speak English, thou rodent of hell!"
But I say again, "Quis custodiet custodes?" So you turn to the veterinarian, who is so busy taking the hamster's pulse that she fails to notice that the water dish is floating three feet off the ground. "Sounds like gerbilish to me, no hamster tongue at all."
Fortunately, Clovis wanders in, and you ask him, "What does 'Quis custodiet custodes' mean?"
"First, the correct quotation is 'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.' Please see the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodie...sos_custodes%3F
But, very roughly translated, it means 'who watches the watchmen?' It is interesting to consider the difference with and without the ipsos..."
Moral of the story: If a demon speaks English to an English-speaker, how dishwater dull. Theater is the very essence of demonic possession. By speaking Latin instead, I have both ticked you off and made you do my work for me, spreading my message as you search for its translation.
Fiendishly clever, so to speak.
QUOTE (darrkmoonbride @ Jun 17 2008, 11:16 PM)
Thank for all your responses people, i agree with most of the people who argued a medical ailment rather than possession, and also agree with the people who said that demons speak in an understandable language to get their message across, but, if that was the case then why not speak english to an english speaking person? Or latin to a latin speaking person? And if demons had no language of their own then how do they communicate with each other? I would also be interested in hearing if anyone here believes they have been possessed or had some kind of experience.
This is kind of embarrassing because it sounds so made up & ridiculous but here goes. I swear it's the truth. This was long ago and i'm not into playing these games, although I would use it again in self-defense. Hopefully a man that believes in the devil will try to hurt me, god forbid<tee hee
I have often scared people into believing I was possessed. My aunt, some cousins, my ex, neighbors,strangers (yes even a horde of 5 men),my mother. I have stopped 5 or 6 attempted rapes with this. They claimed my face turns mask-like, completely distorted and some said my eyes /pupils turned red. I could make my kids scream just by looking at them (I don't do this anymore-don't worry-it's psychological abuse- I did it once-twice with my son). One ex-boyfriend claimed I turned into a snake next to him (he was half-asleep) and my girlfriend claimed I turned into a lizard. (she was also half-asleep-we were sharing a tent) My ex actually jumped out of a 2 story window because he was so afraid. I ripped the doors off of a car of one man that tried to rape me in a cemetery of all places !! I had EXTREME rage pent up in me for years.
I was even afraid to be alone with myself just because of people's reactions-now I find it all amusing and kinda mysterious at the same time.
And no I'm not ugly-i know what you are thinking. LOL ! I can also change my voice into a man's voice, child's or animal.
I've been practicing since childhood.But now i damaged my vocal chords somewhat, or so my doc says. Now i sound like Kathleen Turner.
Funny thing is only people that believe in this stuff thought I was possessed. If i did this with my husband, my grown son & other unbelievers, they would laugh at me or commit me.
I am Bob Larson's wet dream, baby.
The power of suggestion is an awesome thing. I'm sure there are people on this forum that will still think I was or am demonized.
That's ok too. There is nothing I can do about it.
QUOTE (Lt_Ripley @ Jun 17 2008, 03:41 PM)
yep. unless your a professional psychiatrist and can demonstrate they weren't ill , delusional , lying , attention seeking ........ yep . a polygraph test would be nice too.
Exactly what kind of mental illness generates ice cold focused winds that push people away? What mental illness causes glasses of water to rise several inches off a tables surface and float across the table?
QUOTE (IamsSon @ Jun 17 2008, 08:09 PM)
Exactly what kind of mental illness generates ice cold focused winds that push people away? What mental illness causes glasses of water to rise several inches off a tables surface and float across the table?
you got this on video ? got the temp of that wind as it's pushing people away on video ?
till then it's hearsay. not worth a damn.
better yet maybe David Copperfield is possessed ?
QUOTE (IamsSon @ Jun 18 2008, 10:39 AM)
Exactly what kind of mental illness generates ice cold focused winds that push people away? What mental illness causes glasses of water to rise several inches off a tables surface and float across the table?
Maybe its some sort of psychic power? Ive heard that given as an explanation before as well, but, if you think that it was a dinky dye possessoin who are we to dispute you? (which i wasnt trying to do anyway
) Who are we to dispute anyone? We dont know what actually happened unless we were to see it ourselves, and thats not possible. BUt so saying i would have to be in the presence of a possessee and find out for myself if they were actually "possessed"
QUOTE (Lt_Ripley @ Jun 18 2008, 12:14 PM)
you got this on video ? got the temp of that wind as it's pushing people away on video ?
till then it's hearsay. not worth a damn.
better yet maybe David Copperfield is possessed ?
till then it's hearsay. not worth a damn.
better yet maybe David Copperfield is possessed ?
I disagree with you. And even if you had video evidence i don't think you would believe it anyway. I'm not bashing christians but the bible is hearsay too, and look how many billions upon billions of people believe in god?
QUOTE (darrkmoonbride @ Jun 17 2008, 09:56 PM)
I disagree with you. And even if you had video evidence i don't think you would believe it anyway. I'm not bashing christians but the bible is hearsay too, and look how many billions upon billions of people believe in god?
I think the mind can do marvelous things . Hey I believe in UFO"s having seen something I couldn't explain. but we also have more on video about UFO's than any 'miracle or possession' that isn't just some person flopping around speaking gibberish.
cold air blowing ? a glass with water rising ?
please - easy stuff.
David Copperfield performs Portal, in which he takes a member of the audience and transports him to Hawaii and then David reappears on stage. One of the most amazing illusion ever made by David.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcEqM8z1wgA
QUOTE (IamsSon @ Jun 18 2008, 12:09 AM)
Exactly what kind of mental illness generates ice cold focused winds that push people away? What mental illness causes glasses of water to rise several inches off a tables surface and float across the table?
hey, if you like that stuff, youll totally digg chris angel
but like the Lt. said, you have No evidence to back up what you just said.
QUOTE (darrkmoonbride @ Jun 18 2008, 01:56 AM)
I disagree with you. And even if you had video evidence i don't think you would believe it anyway. I'm not bashing christians but the bible is hearsay too, and look how many billions upon billions of people believe in god?
i know, kinda sad.
but its what they believe, and what they have faith in. even if they cant prove its real, doesnt matter.
its like a placebo that youve grown up with your whole life (or found out about later) and dont wanna give up, because youre scared of what may happen.
QUOTE (Agent. Mulder @ Jun 18 2008, 04:09 AM)
i know, kinda sad.
but its what they believe, and what they have faith in. even if they cant prove its real, doesnt matter.
its like a placebo that youve grown up with your whole life (or found out about later) and dont wanna give up, because youre scared of what may happen.
but its what they believe, and what they have faith in. even if they cant prove its real, doesnt matter.
its like a placebo that youve grown up with your whole life (or found out about later) and dont wanna give up, because youre scared of what may happen.
True and untrue.
True in that sometimes people don't like the unpredictablity of life itself thus clutching on to a relgion, though it is like ductape a coin whatever object you want to use...it can be both.
Really it's all about mental set and making it work for YOU...and possibly others
QUOTE (darrkmoonbride @ Jun 16 2008, 11:27 PM)
Thanks for all that but it still dosen't really answer my question..... why do demons who possess someone speak in a language known to man? Why don't they speak their own?
No one knows for sure but my take on it is "they" want to be known, they want to scare they want to destroy. " How can they do this if we dont understand what they are saying?I think they would have no power over us if they couldnt use ways to communicate in a "human way"
QUOTE (therion24 @ Jun 18 2008, 03:37 AM)
No one knows for sure but my take on it is "they" want to be known, they want to scare they want to destroy. " How can they do this if we dont understand what they are saying?I think they would have no power over us if they couldnt use ways to communicate in a "human way"
first of all, we dont even know How theyre possesed, or why. just theories.
second, communicating in our language allows the persons whose 'possesed' to actually make sense, and not look like a fool while theyre faking it, OR while theyre mentally ill they would obviously be speaking in a language they know
QUOTE (Lt_Ripley @ Jun 18 2008, 04:12 AM)
I think the mind can do marvelous things . Hey I believe in UFO"s having seen something I couldn't explain. but we also have more on video about UFO's than any 'miracle or possession' that isn't just some person flopping around speaking gibberish.
Very true
QUOTE (darrkmoonbride @ Jun 18 2008, 11:56 AM)
I disagree with you. And even if you had video evidence i don't think you would believe it anyway. I'm not bashing christians but the bible is hearsay too, and look how many billions upon billions of people believe in god?
Maybe not, but herein lies the rub; There is NO evidence of ANY kind that this sort of thing happens. None. A vid would at least be a start. And if the David Copperfield link is'nt a big enough hint, the point is, that he does this stuff, all the time. It's his business. And it's a trick. Get it? Glasses flying, chilled winds, blah blah, it can all be done, but it's a trick.
Oh and, for the record, backing up one unsubstantiated claim (demonic possession) with another (the bible) does nothing for the argument.
I'm not sure if psychokinesis exists or not.
But even if it does ,it still doesn't prove that demons exist, that fear crosses & holy water. LOL
But even if it does ,it still doesn't prove that demons exist, that fear crosses & holy water. LOL
QUOTE (Lt_Ripley @ Jun 18 2008, 02:12 AM)
I think the mind can do marvelous things . Hey I believe in UFO"s having seen something I couldn't explain. but we also have more on video about UFO's than any 'miracle or possession' that isn't just some person flopping around speaking gibberish.
and the fact that the governments Actually have programs to study ufos. seeing as they can be threats to national security.
unlike other things in life, say......oohhhh.....possesion?
QUOTE (Agent. Mulder @ Jun 18 2008, 07:37 AM)
and the fact that the governments Actually have programs to study ufos. seeing as they can be threats to national security.
unlike other things in life, say......oohhhh.....possesion?
unlike other things in life, say......oohhhh.....possesion?
Yes,and some governments have officially admitted that UFO's exist.
They just have no answers as to what they really are, or at least they claim that they do not know.
QUOTE (darrkmoonbride @ Jun 17 2008, 05:16 PM)
Thank for all your responses people, i agree with most of the people who argued a medical ailment rather than possession, and also agree with the people who said that demons speak in an understandable language to get their message across, but, if that was the case then why not speak english to an english speaking person? Or latin to a latin speaking person? And if demons had no language of their own then how do they communicate with each other? I would also be interested in hearing if anyone here believes they have been possessed or had some kind of experience.
I have had experiences both with myself and others. First though there is a difference between demonic possession and demonic oppression. I will share with you since you some of my few experiences since you are interested.
QUOTE
When I was around 14 I felt entities. While meditating once I felt power. It is hard to describe but it was like I was seeking power. Then I accepted it. Then surge after surge, it felt like ripples. my chest felt liquid, but surge after surge entered me. Demons. I used to do tons of mental magic. Focus and project thoughts on others for different reasons mainly enemies and mainly love interests. Would appear in their dreams or so they said.
I used to meditate tons for a few years after that. I have astral projected before. Had an OOBE once. All types of magic and magical systems. Developed my own magic, etc...I have since rejected that type of power that the spirits who entered me and asked God to cleanse me. I would rather allow His Spirit to guide me and His power flow through me as the Spirit wills -instead of- me willing the spirits, me wielding the power, and me choosing how to direct it.
I was walking with a friend once at night in a walmart parking lot. We were discussing the paranormal. I told him about how I felt I was always called to preach and how I do not feel up to it and such. Then at that very moment I looked at my steps and stepped on something. Picked it up it was a small plastic sandwich bag cut in half and inside was a Sunday school arts and crafts object. A construction paper Jesus fish and on it was the scripture that says 'I shall make you fishers of men'.
The next entity I saw was at church few years back. I was focused on the pastor. A good pastor who explained to us that not everyone has to believe in the Bible to go to heaven and he showed us where it said it. That is besides the fact but when I was focusing on him I saw a woman three rows up or so just staring at me. She was new like us appeared very worldly too in appearance. I did a double take and no she was looking forward. But then within that one second it all sank in. Tons of information in a split second. I saw a demon in her. It was ugly, like that ugly white sausage they sell in stores, that is how its skin looked like and it was also like very saggy, it looked like something was pulling its skin down. It looked at me with recognition. It looked at me like it was saying 'I know you.' I did not think about it after that information overload I kept on focusing on the pastor.
Later that night I pondered about it and it struck me that its skin was that way because it was melting. It was a demon on the verge of being defeated. So that is how a demon looks like when it no longer has the liberty to remain in its host because now Christ is taking its place I thought. It was looking for another host. Then it struck me. After all my research into demons and magic in the past that maybe I am called into spiritual warfare and my whole path had been for a reason even when I strayed from the faith.
Spiritual warfare is not something to take likely. It is bad enough being a pastor with all the attacks Satan and his minions will look for in a pastor and his family. But spiritual warfare is on another level. You are not even supposed to lay hands on another in prayer unless you are strong in the Spirit because something in them could get in you if you are not. Spiritual warfare is beyond all that. Dangerous. You have to be so much stronger. But I have not chosen that path yet. Even though I feel I might have a gift of discernment if I was to get stronger in the Spirit than I am now. With all the proof I have had in many forms some might say well why haven't you yet?
Spiritual warfare though and the discernment of demons is very specified. Those who have the gift do not advertise. They can even see a demon in another and they will not even tell them. The reason they see these things is only so they can know. What is the purpose of knowing and not doing anything? Well they do do something. They pray, pray and pray. Spiritual warriors pray. Prayer is the main weapon for the newest of believers to the most hard core Christian soldiers in spiritual warfare. So I prayed for that lady it was all I could do. All that came to me that night I saw the demon in her through revelation. That that is why I saw it was so I can pray for her and that is how the Lord wanted to use me.
I used to meditate tons for a few years after that. I have astral projected before. Had an OOBE once. All types of magic and magical systems. Developed my own magic, etc...I have since rejected that type of power that the spirits who entered me and asked God to cleanse me. I would rather allow His Spirit to guide me and His power flow through me as the Spirit wills -instead of- me willing the spirits, me wielding the power, and me choosing how to direct it.
I was walking with a friend once at night in a walmart parking lot. We were discussing the paranormal. I told him about how I felt I was always called to preach and how I do not feel up to it and such. Then at that very moment I looked at my steps and stepped on something. Picked it up it was a small plastic sandwich bag cut in half and inside was a Sunday school arts and crafts object. A construction paper Jesus fish and on it was the scripture that says 'I shall make you fishers of men'.
The next entity I saw was at church few years back. I was focused on the pastor. A good pastor who explained to us that not everyone has to believe in the Bible to go to heaven and he showed us where it said it. That is besides the fact but when I was focusing on him I saw a woman three rows up or so just staring at me. She was new like us appeared very worldly too in appearance. I did a double take and no she was looking forward. But then within that one second it all sank in. Tons of information in a split second. I saw a demon in her. It was ugly, like that ugly white sausage they sell in stores, that is how its skin looked like and it was also like very saggy, it looked like something was pulling its skin down. It looked at me with recognition. It looked at me like it was saying 'I know you.' I did not think about it after that information overload I kept on focusing on the pastor.
Later that night I pondered about it and it struck me that its skin was that way because it was melting. It was a demon on the verge of being defeated. So that is how a demon looks like when it no longer has the liberty to remain in its host because now Christ is taking its place I thought. It was looking for another host. Then it struck me. After all my research into demons and magic in the past that maybe I am called into spiritual warfare and my whole path had been for a reason even when I strayed from the faith.
Spiritual warfare is not something to take likely. It is bad enough being a pastor with all the attacks Satan and his minions will look for in a pastor and his family. But spiritual warfare is on another level. You are not even supposed to lay hands on another in prayer unless you are strong in the Spirit because something in them could get in you if you are not. Spiritual warfare is beyond all that. Dangerous. You have to be so much stronger. But I have not chosen that path yet. Even though I feel I might have a gift of discernment if I was to get stronger in the Spirit than I am now. With all the proof I have had in many forms some might say well why haven't you yet?
Spiritual warfare though and the discernment of demons is very specified. Those who have the gift do not advertise. They can even see a demon in another and they will not even tell them. The reason they see these things is only so they can know. What is the purpose of knowing and not doing anything? Well they do do something. They pray, pray and pray. Spiritual warriors pray. Prayer is the main weapon for the newest of believers to the most hard core Christian soldiers in spiritual warfare. So I prayed for that lady it was all I could do. All that came to me that night I saw the demon in her through revelation. That that is why I saw it was so I can pray for her and that is how the Lord wanted to use me.
QUOTE (DogsHead @ Jun 18 2008, 02:16 PM)
Maybe not, but herein lies the rub; There is NO evidence of ANY kind that this sort of thing happens. None. A vid would at least be a start. And if the David Copperfield link is'nt a big enough hint, the point is, that he does this stuff, all the time. It's his business. And it's a trick. Get it? Glasses flying, chilled winds, blah blah, it can all be done, but it's a trick.
Oh and, for the record, backing up one unsubstantiated claim (demonic possession) with another (the bible) does nothing for the argument.
Oh and, for the record, backing up one unsubstantiated claim (demonic possession) with another (the bible) does nothing for the argument.
If you read my original statement i said i was skeptical about possession in the first place, I am very well aware of "tricks" thank you very much, no further input needed from you there, please don't insult my intelligence, and i was making a comment about the bible as an example, nothing more, it was the first thing that came to mind. I would like to see a legitimate video on a "possession" as well, but if iamson would have had a video im sure they would have offered to post it. That is the only point i was trying to make.
Haha there are always those wanting to convert others regardless if it is to belief or skepticism. Sharing opinion is much funner knowing we will all most likely walk away believing the same exact thing we have come into a conversation with.
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