Ide like to get some opinions on things Im studying...

We have the Greek word for Hell, which is Hades
We have the Hebrew word for Hell which is Sheol
Then we have a 'Son of El' from Cannan times by the name of Hadad, who I think ruled the underworld (something like that)

Now, obviously, there is a long lived tale of an place where the puniched ones go? Could this be Earth?

Hades is a place where ones soul is seperated from its nature (God)-I feel as if we are truely seperated from our nature....

What if reincarnation is real? What if we dont figure things out the first time around, we get born of flesh again, with heavier karma on us, back into the place where we become again separated from God? What if that is the cycle, to keep getting born of flesh (the veil that separates our spirit and soul) until we finally use the experiences here to let our soul grow for purification? If Hades is not Earth, then why is it necessary to be separated from God here on earth? Please do not give me the answer that the reason we are separated from God is because Eve ate an apple...because after Eve and Adam ate the 'apple' God says to someone or something (angels or elohim?) that Adam has become like them, like a God, for he now knows good and evil. So if Adam then became like 'one of them, like a God', why did Adam have to become seperate from the ones be 'became like'.....

All opinions welcome, Im not saying this is true, Im saying this is what Im studying-the more reflections on a topic the more rich is the understanding-

So final question-Could Hades be Earth, the place we become separated from our true nature?

You also forgot the Greek word Gehenna which is also translated as "Hell". Oh, and the Greek word tartaros, which despite only being mentioned once in the whole Bible is also translated as "Hell". Oh, and then there's the "Lake of Fire" which is mentioned in Revelation 20 which is also supposed to be "Hell".

So that's *counts on fingers* 4 separate words, all with different meanings, all translated as Hell, and then taken by many Christians to all be the same thing. And then an arbitrary link to a reference of a "Lake of Fire", in which Hades is actually cast into - Revelation 20 being one of the few passages that often leave the word "Hades" untranslated, rather than as "Hell" (though one or two translations do). Why? Probably because "Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire and burned up" doesn't really make sense in certain Chrsitian understandings of "Hell" as a place of torture (how can it be if "Hell" is basically cast into "hell" again????).

Needless to say, many Christians these days are moving away from the idea of Hell as a place of torture for reasons such as listed above.

Your ideas on reincarnation are interesting, though I don't think it is possible to argue that "Hades" is the Earth, since "Hades" refers to the Grave - literally translated, "hole in the ground".

Think of it this way for a sec. though....if you do get reincarnated, and keep getting reincarnated....this would be or could be looked at like the place of no end...if you keep getting cycled through, again and again....it would be like a grave in a sense, because you are not getting born into the spirit world, you keep getting born into the flesh. Just my temp. thoughts...if I keep getting reincarnated, if I keep getting sent back here to the flesh because I loose my spirit more and more every time I am reborn, this to me, would be like a grave, it could be never ending. By looking at it this way, I do see this as a place of torture, for my soul is separated from God. Whatcha think? Could the translation be 'hole in the Logos, instead of hole in the ground'? "hole in the ground' seems strange, because that would have to imply that Hell is in a hole somewhere on earth?

First, you must remember that you are speaking to a Christian who does not think that "Hell" is an accurate understanding of the afterlife, Virgo. It has become the popular name we use to describe that place where those who are not saved go, but I do not call this place "Hell", because the Bible does not. As I said, "Hades" is a hole in the ground (a grave) and does not have spiritual overtones.

that said, after the clarification of your view, I see some merit in what you are saying. But it does hinge on a very metaphorical definition of "the Grave". It also makes an interesting juxtaposition of our current life on Earth being by all accounts the epitome of death. If we are now here because we did not achieve some level of one-ness, then we are "dead" even though we are alive (though that's not too strange a juxtaposition - many religions have their ideas on "spiritual death" - this one just takes it a step further by making our actual life a death in itself.

Sorry, it's late, and I hope my last sentence made some semblance of sense (particularly the death/life dichotomy). the metaphorical view of this whole Earth as a Grave (Hades) is interesting, though I don't think there's anything in the Bible to support it. Not that this means you are necessarily wrong. Who knows, you could be right. I'm just saying your view would be based on a very individualistic version of events rather than on any pre-established view.

Thanks for the reply, Virgo

~ PA

Thank you for conversing with me on this topic. I once called myself a Christian, I once thought the Bible was 100%. I must say though, I feel many books are missing from the Bible. I have trouble with the idea of the Roman Orthodox being the main source of choosing which books made it into our modern day Bible and which books didnt. So I study many things and use the Bible as my main source. For example, the book of Enoch, I feel should of been in the Bible, as well as the book of Jasper and some others...Its interesting to me that so many different books were found with the Dead Sea Scrolls, representing many different groups of beliefs.

Lets talk about the Bible for a sec.
Many Old Testament people confuse me because they had many wives, found reasons to kill, and used things that I would call sorcery or divination, such as oracles and ephods to find answers.

I like your outlook Virgo...There IS more... Like you said.... The bible is your main source, but do you also feel there is more???

I do. So much left out, some just found....who choose to have them put in there, or which ones that is... And then there is the "spiritual knowing".... that some things are interpreted wrong... Just as Paranoid Andriod said there are several words used to describe the same thing, it is easy for misinterpretations to become ones opinion of something or someone being "wrong" in their individual outlook....

Do you also feel there is more too?

Thanks for responding Warrior, and yes, I feel there is more. I always have, I was raised in church and always felt something was missing. I found more growth for my soul by being open minded. Ive always felt the need to seek to understand what didnt make sense to me. I have strong faith in a Divine Father but I feel a strong pull towards the Mother Earth. I have a passion for history of mankind and souls.

The quest for me of what hell truly is, is because I dont feel God being that wrathful really. I feel the Logos are loving and patient. I feel that there are demon like spirits who would love to control souls in some way, but isnt that what they are doing a pretty good job here on earth? Just my thoughts, they dont have to be others I think its possible, that some angels incarnated here at their own will to help us in the very beginning, such as mabey Adams soul or ma bey the prophets....I remember a verse in Genesis I think about God telling Aaron to tell Moses that God was making Moses into a Elohim. Its things like that which will make my mind wonder. Then there is Melchizedek, no beginning-no end...was he a special soul....I love talking about this kinda stuff.

Sorry to throw so many different topics, its late and my mind is rambling...
Peace to all

Thats ok..by rambling we learn others thoughts. Im glad you are open minded. Itoo think that sometimes things are taken so litteral...so many parabels were used to get the point across as exxamples...


" Exodus 4:16, "He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you [Moses] were Elohim to him [Aaron]... ,"

I think this is what you were referring to...

Thanks for posting the verse Warrior....what do you make of this verse if I many ask and to any one else who wants to jump in. Is Moses channeling God through himself to Aaron? Is Moses just being giving a title as a 'son of God' now, if so its important to note that even if Moses is going to be seen as a 'son of God' to Aaron the important part of this is Aaron is going to be receiving Gods words 'through' Moses. I personally see this is like a 'channel' -possibly, just possibly, the Elohim could mean 'sons of God, or angles of God, or channels of God'-I know that might seem really far out there to some, but the more I study many different spiritualities, I see a different light then what I used to see while reading the Bible. Another thoughts is

Back to the subject of Hades-In the book of Enoch, Enoch sees several realms of 'bad' places.

CH. 18-"And beyond these mountains Is a region the end of the great earth: there the heavens were completed. And I saw a deep abyss, with columns of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike towards 12 the height and towards the depth. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no 13 birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, 14 and to me, when I inquired regarding them, The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of 16 their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years."

CH. 19-And Uriel said to me: 'Here shall stand the angels who have connected themselves with women, and their spirits assuming many different forms are defiling mankind and shall lead them astray into sacrificing to demons as gods, (here shall they stand,) till the day of the great judgement in 2 which they shall be judged till they are made an end of. And the women also of the angels who 3 went astray shall become sirens.' And I, Enoch, alone saw the vision, the ends of all things: and no man shall see as I have seen.

CH. 21-"And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither 3 a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. And there I saw 4 seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. Then 5 I said: 'For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?' Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: 'Enoch, why 6 dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, 7 the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.' And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of 8 fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. Then I said: 'How 9 fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!' Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?' And 10 I answered: 'Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.' And he said unto me: 'This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever."

Could the literal idea of hell be more for the angels and stars then mankind? Could mankind 'hell' be a place of recycling in a sense, a place of experience of catalyst and being separated from God until the ego soul becomes humble enough for growth and purification for the Holy Heaven. I struggle with thinking that we have just one chance to get it all right OR we just burn in 'hell'. Just my thoughts....

Peace to all,
Virgo

" Exodus 4:16, "He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you [Moses] were Elohim to him [Aaron]... ,"

You asked....
"""""Is Moses channeling God through himself to Aaron? Is Moses just being giving a title as a 'son of God' now, if so its important to note that even if Moses is going to be seen as a 'son of God' to Aaron the important part of this is Aaron is going to be receiving Gods words 'through' Moses. I personally see this is like a 'channel' -possibly, just possibly, the Elohim could mean 'sons of God, or angles of God, or channels of God'-I know that might seem really far out there to some, but the more I study many different spiritualities, I see a different light then what I used to see while reading the Bible. """"

I think it could be what you thought ... that moses could have channeled GOD thru him.

Or just that he would be so pissed off it would seem like the wrath of GOD coming upon him.....

We just dont know. And everyone who reads it can envision it differently...

But your absolutly right... When you say ....
"""the more I study many different spiritualities, I see a different light then what I used to see while reading the Bible. """"

I also look at things from the spiritual aspect like you, and when I reflect back on situations within the bible, I wonder... gee, it could mean this or it could mean that too.... Everything is NOT black and white....
Like reincarnation, channeling and spirits etc...

So while I abide by the bible, perhaps my view of reading it upon certain aspects differs from others because of my spirituality outlook.... While I certainly stand for the good it represents, and my faith, I just look differently, as you said too.

Thanks for joining me in these topics Warrior, its like a fresh breeze on my skin when I come across paths of open minded people like yourself who are deep with spirit. I have lurked through this forum a long time, I have posted a few things here and there, but I would like to become more involved in conversing these kind of things with others.

Thanks Virgo,
I dont always gain praise, especially from some other Christians who think that the spirituality aspect, and or spirits, are of the relm into which we should not delve....

I just know there is more, and it doesnt make it a bad thing. All good comes from the Lord and that includes the gifts he and or the Holy Spirit bestows upon others. It just must be for the good, and to help others...Any use for bad, or monitary gain I think and fear it would be taken away. I ask for my protection from the Lord and Holy Spirit and it works. I never deal with the negative like ouiji boards etc....but if someone else wants to, thats their business. But I will warn them at least.

I too am finding that when posting your opening yourself up to many non beleivers that like to argue or look for ego filled debates. Im not into that. I post to help or state how I feel and what i know....Or should say what I know because of what I feel... But, youll never please everyone. But being a humble loving person is where Im content. I dont have to prove myself to any others but HIM.
He knows. He gave it to me.

I also enjoy Brahmann...he has the same outlook too. Thanks again....
Blessings honey

"I ask for my protection from the Lord and Holy Spirit and it works."

I too feel this is what has protected me and guided me my entire life. I have always asked for protection and never have indulged in anything that could be negative. I truly believe all answers are with in....if your seeking, its like a inner voice. Im starting to love dreams also, interesting place-dream land. Some shrug things like dreams off, IDK, I guess that shows how open minded I am. Im 33 and attending classes for psychology and I would like to get ordained also...So my studies are interesting to say the least. Im trying to study all religions, I feel God is in them all. My dream would be to have a retreat for families to come and be with nature, have organic farms, forest for those who just need to go off in the earth to find their peace, natural springs to have natural baptisms (for those who would like to do it)-a non denominations gathering retreat, spiritual atmosphere, I could go on and on...for now its still just a dream

Peace to all,
Virgo

Yes, Virgo....
Its called Intuition.... Divine Intuition.

Intuition rarley gives the message once...If you dont get it the first time, the cosmic 2>< 4 comes along and wacks ya in the head. Youll continue to hear and feel your nudges until your on the right path from your inner guidance system... God nags at you and doenst give up at it. I beleive we are pre destined to carry out some idea or purpose...

If im supposed to get a message, I will see it and feel it and hear it everywhere....from everything. Movie, song, friend, misc etc...you name it....and ya better beleive I play the numbers too when I notice them!

I dont get the 2><4 as often any more...Im better at it now...

The intuition is a lighting of the spirit, where it allows the light of GOD to reveal those things which please him by direct impression and clearness to us. There is absolutly a intelligence that we all belong to, and we are all here for a reason.
When we recognise and commbine our inner thought with feeling, emotion and intellect, with the recognition of GOD, we have a power that is unmatched..... I should say GIFT....Im thankful!

One night I was driving with my husband down the local highway and saying a prayer to myself and just praying about an issue...I got my answer when I was done... There along the side of the highway in someones yard was a lit up cross...facing the highway... I dont know why it gave me goose bumps, but it did...I should be used to getting my answers by now... But it moved me, yet again....

Blessings honey...
Tell them you want to know more than the usual 65% they teach in semenary school... Thats the "more" we want to know about!
The part they dont talk about..which is what I feel/think this stuff is all about....

Your words ring true Warrior

And yes, about the schooling, I spend more time studying on my own then what the schools will give one to study. I sit with several reference books (different dictionaries or what nots) something just leads me or sparks my spirit-intuition. I just feel there is more. Mabey some dont need the 'more', mabey it has to do with the levels or something on what we need to work on , but Im driven deep inside to pay keen attention to certain things. My children seem to also feel a passion for seeking the knowledge and wisdom that can be found here.

Peace to all,
Virgo

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