I personally believe that the Old/ New Testament is false. I think that this book was written as anyother fictional book is writted today. I partially believe that the story of God and the Devil(the basic outline of the Bible) was one to create fear in people. The church was and could be the most powerful organization in the world. They established themselves worldwide. As for the story of God or Jesus or whatever I think it was made to get followers into their clan. Without fear they had no followers. They made the laws they was they wanted them to be. I have much more to say...

quickly replied before thread is closed

God.. No
Jesus... yes

So u believe that Jesus was just a regular man?

...and Noahs Ark was obviously false... Firstly how could he make a ship large enough to house all those animals. Where did he get all the resources to build this large boat. Secondly how would he gather two of every animal on earth... THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE...he would have to travel worldwide on land. there were no cars or planes, so this would have taken many many years. Thirdly he would have to get hay and stuff for the animals beds, cages, food, a place for waste. The resources would not be available for him. Just more facts to prove the story of God/ Jesus wrong.

There is no proof the Noahs ark even existed... It is just a story in the bible.

I didn't vote, you need more choices.

God= of course there is a god.

Jesus, i believe he was a real person. Weaher Jesus is god , well you canbelieve what you believe and i'll believe what i believe.

I agree with SA, Noah and His Ark were proebely real. perhaps lil over dramatics, but noneless real.


***note to Mod: This thread has Please close written all over it.***

There are two ways to look at this.

For those who believe in God and have followed his teaching.
If your wrong, no big deal. You led a good life.
If your right, no big deal. You'll get your reward.

For those that don't believe in God.
If your right no big deal. that's all she wrote
If your wrong, Well you get the idea.

Removed my request for PLEASE CLOSE

Aslam made a good statement and changed my belief

rini been postponed to monday.

oh come on now, DreamRebel. if anyone is insulting, i think its you. what are you gonna cry BLASPHEMY and have him burned at the stake? he has the right to his opinion even if its contrary to your own.

sure, Noah's Ark may not be documented truth. it does seem absurd that 2 of each animal was put aboard. you are right.

then again, i doubt Goldielocks and the 3 Bears was real too, but if you read it you get a message about sneaking into a house owned by 3 bears and eating porridge.

what im trying to say is that the Bible is a parable in parts and truth in others. did God really create the world in 7 days? i don't know, that could be truth or parable. was there really an Adam and an Eve? i dont know, again it could be truth or it could be a parable. i think this is especially true of the Old Testament.

the New Testament is more truth and less parable (although Jesus uses parables a plenty). the New Testament is both a documentation of the life and death of Jesus and a collection of parables (i would say Revelations is a good example).

the issues you are raising are valid ones, and things that create the different sects of Christianity. while DreamRebel is obviously a very Orthodox Christian or a Fundamentalist, there are other sects who interpret the Bible with a grain of salt. you shouldnt so quickly doubt the existance of God by logical means though, as logic fails when you judge many things in life on the same criteria. as ridiculous as a giant Ark of animals sounds, it really could have happened. i mean, once molasses flooded the streets of Boston and killed a lot of people. lets see if people believe that actually happened in 2000 years.



****to the people trying to force thread closings, please just move along. nothing is more annoying than a row of replies begging for a thread closing****

About the movie Passion of the Christ... i didnt actually go see it, and i dont know what all the fuss is about. This is just a movie, some people have to learn to relax. If you watch any other war/gore movie then you shouldnt make a big deal about this. Some people are now saying that the money from this should be donated to charity, but WHY. This movie was made to spark controversy, and in urn get people to go see it. The movie was made to make money for the actors and crew not for charity. This is like any other movie... you dont see people who seen Braveheart, The Patriot, or Saving Private Ryan making a big deal about violence. Other movies like The House of 1000 Corpses or whatever its called are probably just as gory as this one. So who cares if we see alot of blood, gashes and nailes being driven into "Jesus" wrist. Its a movie people... settle down.

Bizarro.

I don't think DreamRebel was trying to be insulting. But it seems that each time a God question comes up it gets into a rant of either My god is Better than Your God. Or Your an idiot for your belief. The Mods have been watching this very carefully so not to allow people's beliefs to be attacked.

But you did state your comments very well.

Those are some good points Bizarro... but i dont see what DreamRebel wrote.

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I voted "Yes"
I fully believe that God and Jesus excisted, and still do!
I've gotten too many answeres to my prayers to not believe!

I see no reason to lock this thread as of yet. I deleted DreamRebel's post because it was serving no purpose but to inflame and actively seek closure of the thread.

A thread will not be closed simply because somebody instructs a mod to do it.

So I'm keeping this one open as some people appear to still have a valid point to make. However, I don't hold out much hope.

And Diebytheflyguy - please don't just rant on. If you want to have a discussion, have a discussion. Comment and response, etc.

Im new here and I am not trying to start some riots here... i dont know what any rules on religious topics but i dont see why people get angry.. state your opinion and vote on the poll; no one has to get upset here. Some people are uptight and anytime something "controversial" come up people always have to go crazy.(not being insulting)

lol, ok i'll take the mafia part out but if you want a good debate someone has to spark some controversy. I dont believe in God, and you dont see me getting angry when people try to prove that God does exist. But if I say something about how he dosent exist or comment on the church, religous people get angry. Just because you do believe in some God it dosent give you the right to get mad and whoever dosent... And the funny thing is that the Church clergy people are pretty much ccrrupted right now. If they actually did believe in God and hell, then why would they start molesting little kids.

"The Diocese of Yakima, Wash., said in a news release yesterday that the survey compiled by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice found 4,392 of the 109,694 clergy who served over that five-decade period faced allegations of abuse.

The survey was overseen by the National Review Board, a lay watchdog panel the bishops formed at the height of the abuse crisis. Dioceses across the United States received 10,667 abuse claims since 1950, the news release said. Of those, claims by 6,700 were substantiated. Another 3,300 were not investigated because the accused clergymen were dead. Another 1,000 claims proved to be unsubstantiated, the diocese said."

---From the Toronto Star Newspaper.

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I voted that they do exist. I could be wrong here, but I think I saw something on the Discovery Channel where they proved the existence of Jesus. And stories from the Old Testament, such as Noah's Ark, shouldn't be taken literally, but should be viewed as guidelines for leading a good life.

the OT is very inersteading. You can really see the how diffrent Ot is then to the other religons around at the time. Most had very fantasic battles and scence in how there the world, and other stuff was created, but in the OT, there is just the will of god.

You also have to remmber, that the OT is not giving all of nw info, it just re-telling almost all of the culture myths in a new way. NT, is giving a account of a profit (before you all jump on just kepp reading), all other books of faith also give an re-account of their profits life, teaches, mirclaes, etc. the NT gives almost idticial account of how the world will end, massive battle bad and good.

One more thing, the bible was translated...i know about you, but i don't truth translations.

Do I believe in god? Well.. I believe in many gods... Do I wirship the judio/christian/muslim god? No.

Do I believe in Jesus? I believe he could have existed. However as the prophetic "son of god", no.. I think of him as I would Gandi... A man who wanted to bring a bit of peace into the world.

Who knows... Maybe Gandi was Jesus in a reincarnated pastlife way...

Then again, I believe gods, any god, were creations of the human imagination, only beings as strong as however many believe and worship in them. Humans tend to *need* some kind of explination for something. And gods were/are the easiest answer for alot of them.

*edit* Hello..My name is Freudian, Freudian Slip.

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Ok but i dont know if they would make two different episodes on the same topic but...

It was near the base of the mountain... back then the world was different... the water was probably higher cause our oceans are getting lower each year.

Do you have any of the pictures.. cause it could be near the base of the mountain. If you take a picture you could take one just above the ground and tree line, and it could look like its higher up.

"The Diocese of Yakima, Wash., said in a news release yesterday that the survey compiled by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice found 4,392 of the 109,694 clergy who served over that five-decade period faced allegations of abuse.

The survey was overseen by the National Review Board, a lay watchdog panel the bishops formed at the height of the abuse crisis. Dioceses across the United States received 10,667 abuse claims since 1950, the news release said. Of those, claims by 6,700 were substantiated. Another 3,300 were not investigated because the accused clergymen were dead. Another 1,000 claims proved to be unsubstantiated, the diocese said."

I know its in another reply i wrote, but not many people read this probably.. but what is with this?

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I dont see it. is there evidence of animal life (bones) around the boat? and what exactly happened, did it just crash into the mountain and thats it?

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I must be blind then (eyewise) cause i dont see it... do u want to get the picture and circle on paint and re-post it.

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Oh wow, a ship was found on a mountain. Cause you know how two of every animal could fit onto the ship and have all the supplies necessary...cause of course no other ships were used back then... and all I see is dirt.

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Ok so this is good, we are no closed down, yet. So I’ll be keep talking.

All religions have an ugly side, it’s sad the these priest have down such unthinkable horror, and it’s so much worse the church officials haven’t really done whole about for until now.

I believe that the message of most scripter is truly beautiful. WE SHOULD LOVE EACH OTHER, even those who wish to cause us harm, and people who we can’t understand, or don’t agree with their lifestyles, choices, etc.

I understand your disenchantment with the politics of org. religions, and the yahoo’s that are in charge, especially how they manipulate, brainwash, and cause them harm, because their point view is conflicting, I feel the same way. But those people should not be looked as they are the only rep. of their philosophy. Their some truly great clergymen out there, that no matter what you believe or do not, will always lend a ear. `

As for the existence of Jesus, stop think for a while. Would you believe Jesus was a real person, if no one had made the claim that he was the son of god, Maybe he was just a really cool guy who for no reason had this voice in his head told him, he get much further by doing good instead bad. Would be that he was real if just was man bring the word of god? How about Moses who wrote basic golden rule, and good advise? Buddha, told us have compassion for each other, Muhammad he said no matter what we our soul belongs to god. What of Zoroaster, the first prophet. (I do not believe in any org religion, in fact, I believe the politics of religion are here in enslave us, instead of set us free, so don’t worry about being offending me).

As for the Ark, Noah’s ark is not a new story, ever read Gilgeish, I think a lot of different religons that have a major flood story, not just Noah. Maybe they are all telling the same story. IS the ship in Mt, the Ark, who knows? Arguing with people about it, it pointless. You are never going understand where they come from, and visa versa.

Everyone believes in something, who are we to argue. In addition, if someone out gets all bent out of shape, that’s not your problem, it’s theirs.

Link!

Has some stuff found there.

Grunt...*m..mmmuuu....muss...must Nnnn..noo...nooo...not fla Fl Fla Flame...*Erug

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