I did a ritual last night, I wasn't really expecting as many people who turned out. I didn't think to bring a sacrament for the kids. So all I had was wine and cookies. (The kids liked the cookies.) We don't give kids wine because it is illegal, but one of the Mothers gave her son a little of hers. She ask me about it later if it was ok. I told her it was cause we weren't in a public place. Trouble is we are not a legal church, so I don't know if it is legal for us or not. I know when I was a teen I took wine as sacrament and I was under aged. What do you all think should children be given wine as sacrament.

I went to catholic chrurch as a kid & they gave us wine, but for children I'd say grape juice.

I don't know, I don't believe in any sacrements in the context of church or rituals, but that's just my belief.

As far as giving children wine for those who do beleive in giving sacrements... yes, it's illegal if you're not legal church, but I always say, use your best judgement. It's just not that big of a deal if it's treated with the respect it deserves.

Next time I'll remember the juice. I'll get them the sparking juice they will get a kick out of it.

Are you in America? Because I know that there is case law that supports that if a parent gives a child alcohol to drink while in the privacy of their home it is ok. Also, if you were in a private place, and the parents did not mind, I don't think that there is any legislation against giving them some wine for ritualistic purposes.

No child should be given any form of alcohol. Michael carr greg, one of the top experts in the field in australia, explains that a persons brain does not physically stop developing until their twenties(early for women late for men) Any alcohol can/will adversely affect the growth and physical development of the human brain so, medically, its best not to drink any while the brain is developing.

The "wine" they gave us at my cousins church once tasted suprisingly like crush soda..

The wine I snuck from my grandpa tasted suprisingly like ***.. it was red wine...

I don't think drop (and it's really only a drop) of wine at a pagan ritual or a church on Sunday is gonna warp a kid. It's such an infintessimal amount that it can't do any damage.

Now giving a kid an entire glass of wine... ya, I'd have a problem with that.

I think it's best to use it respectfully, VERY moderate and modestly, and within the confines of the ritual or sacrement.

I'm in Florida and it is illegal to give an under age person alcohol period even if you are in your home. I guess I could look up the law about alcohol for rituals.

I would also stick with the grape juice. I was raised Catholic but we were never given wine during a mass. Now as an Italian, we were given wine (little dab on our tongues) before we could walk...Best to check out the laws in your state just to be safe...

I know that in California you can give a child a glass of wine at the dinner table if it is within your own home. I thought that was a federal thing. But I guess some states might have restrictions about it.

You can allow your children in Texas to get punch drunk even at a private party but as soon as a drunk child steps in the front yard, the back yard must have a locked gate, then the authorities can move in and charge the adults with contributing to the delinquency of a minor as well as to some more specific violations of the alcohol and beverage code. And well the law is not always perfect in this sense because even if all legal the police can still raid you if they suspect a party is going on inside. I know this thread was not about parties but this is the extent of my knowledge towards the topic.

WHen I lived in Texas as a teenage 16-17 we heard that there was a law stating, that if you walked into a bar with your parent & they handed you a beer it was legal. Not sure how true that was.

In California the police can only shut down a party if someone complains twice.

personally i dont see a problem.

every new year we got to have "a" glass of eggnog [it has rum in it]. now of course we started of with eggnog. and in our teens we got to try daquiries.

i find it funny that one fusses over such a meager principle in a world where cough medicine [mainly alchohol] and tylonol is readily available.

how many daily things have alcohol in them think about it.

as for outcomes i rarely drink yet both my sisters have issues with it id say it isnt our upbringing its learning to "control yourself" [that ties into managing freinds.]

I was told at Passover I would have to switch to Grape juice If I did not settle down as a Kid leading the sedar for the first time.
Every time I said The blessing Everyone drank, and I had a pillow to lean on, Quite an empowering experience.

I'm still here so I dont think ritual Drinking is bad.

Everything has it's time and Place.

Love Omnaka

You are probably technically correct, given the very small amount given in that case. Carr -Gregg, who's a child and adolescent psychologist, was particularly talking about parents who, in good faith give their kids wine/alcohol at home, in the hope of developing sensible attitudes to alcohol and drinking habits.
It has long been argued in Australia that this is a good thing to do in demystifing alcohol and reducing the chances that kids will sek illicit drinks if they can get it at home

He just pointed out that, clinically, because even small amounts of alcohol will affect brain development, it is not wise to do this. Parents, of course, always have a choice , but should make that choice informed by knowledge of the effects of alcohol on brain development.

He also pointed out that ,psychologically, it doesnt protect kids, because even if given alcohol at home it is the nature of underage drinking which appeals to young people, not the alcohol it self. Many kids who dont even like the taste of alcohol drink becuase of the rituals and expectations involved with underage drinkng.

In Australia, as far as i know, any adult within their own private residence, can give alcohol to any minor in their home (without the consent of that minor's parents)

This has become somewhat of a contentious issue, given a number of major house partiies gone wrong , and that law is being reviewed. No adult, including parents, can legally provide alcohol to any minor (under 18) in a public place, or in a hotel/bar, or other licensed premises, in any part of Australia as far as i am aware.
Im not sure whether there would be a specific exclusion for sacramental wine or whether, technically, giving such wine to a minor would be breaking the law.

I don't know what the right answer is really.

For very young children... ya, you shouldn't let your 6 year old go around the table nipping off of everyone's adult beverages--something my grandparents used to allow us to do. We have pictures of my grandfather pouring all us grandkids shots of vodka when we were awfully young (7? 8?), I remember drinking it too--I'm REALLY surprised my parents who never had a drop of alcohol in our home ever didn't have a COW.

I've never been much of a drinker, I was raised in a no alcohol home, but my grandparents were alcoholics. I never liked what it did to them.

I am a social drinker though today. I'll have a beer or two, some are quite tasty, a nip of a mixed spirits once in a while. and I do like wine as well. I have always had it around my house. My daughter was told around the age of 13 or 14, by me, that if she wanted a glass of wine or a beer, that was fine. Never once did she touch any of it not even a sip.

When she was 14, her step-grandparents and I did allow her to have Kava before she went to live in Vanuatu where Kava is very popular and in fact, they have entire bars dedicated to it's preparation and drinking. We wanted her to know what it was like before she faced it on the islands. Luckily, women in general don't drink Kava there. She didn't like it anyway (it tastes terrible in most people's opinion) and the effects were not something she wanted to try again either.

I don't know what the right answers are, other than teaching your kids that things like alcohol should be done in moderation and with respect and caution.