Often, a Christian will answer questions, or a post with a seemingly scathing reply. A lot of people think it makes us sound like raving lunatics. But there is something behind it. It is like if somone asked you a nasty question or made a slanderous remark about the most beloved person in your life. The thing is, no matter what and how you answer, you too often get a reply that makes you want to scream. The mocking and jeering and disdain is painful. It hurts on a very deep and personal level. And one big thing for Christians is that we want to let all people know the truth that we know, so that no one has to end up in hell. Many of you don't believe in such a place and you make that well known. But, if you are told about it, then we did what we believe in and it is your choice now. Most of what we say is honestly in love. Sometimes though, we get really frustrated and we lash out. We shouldn't, but we do. I am not speaking for all who call themselves Christians on this forum, but I think I speak for many. I most certainly speak for myself. You have every right to believe in whatever you want, but don't you want to know every option you have? I did, and I found it. So let's all have a little less hate for each other, shall we? We all have to live on the same planet for now, right? I hope you have a beautiful day/night and a better tomarrow! Peace, GIN

here is why you get scathing replies - it isn't truth but opinion your pushing. I don't see Pagans on the board telling Christians that if they don't celebrate the Solstices that they will be damned for the rest of the year. But bet buttons to dollars you'll get some christian saying in essence ' we love you and we're all sinners , but your going to hell because you don't believe as we do.' None believe they are going to your 'hell' , but it's the pedestal you put yourself on .... the arrogance that makes people want to knock you off. You have no corner on truth when it comes to God. No one does.

it isn't love , it's obnoxious and arrogant. Just as your being now with this in all honesty. Now you have gotten my scathing reply but an explanation as to why.

Thank you very much for your reply. And you are right, too many Christians do get on pedestals and get all holier-than-thou. It's very true. It isn't easy to speak the truth in love, as we are supposed to do. Many of us lack the social skills for that. When a person believes in something with all thier heart, it is easy to go all out without using any discretion. As for the corner on truth, we believe we do indeed have that =). But it's very simple for anyone who is interested to get it too. I honestly appreciate your reply...it helps me understand. Take care Lt. Ripley

hmm.....

Hey we're all excitable, emotional primates - the rest of us don't expect Christians to be perfect

I guess we're supposed to just lay down and die. But, I'd rather have some dignity in defending myself, and my beliefs before throwing in the towel.. I get the impression it's we're damned if we do, and we're damned if we don't kinda thing..

Belle, you're a doll! AND you liked Richard Petty! You rock!! (((( #43!!!!)))))

You said it, Shanky! We are supposed to just smile, be kind to all, give up our soul to welcome and accept everyone no matter what and never dare to open our lips to share why we are so happy. Go figure. It's not like we're asking for money or fame or anything. The good news is free to all! Oh, the damned part...so true, but remember that once we tell the story, it's on them and we are right with God. Keep on keeping on!

Here is the break down into clear english:

Mainstream Christian should say, "Please, choose to accept Christ, He loves you and will help keep you out of hell." But instead he says what he is thinking, "You are going to Hell unless you agree with me, and that's the God honest Christian truth. Oh, and I didn't choose to be saved, God chose me. No one chooses to be saved, God chooses who He will save." Both of which are true for the mainstream Christian, just they should be more politically correct with it.

No offense intended.

Another problem is that non-christians are expecting christians to turn the other cheek. When the non-christian says that the belief in christ is just Set worshipping or just pointless. I don't think that is going to happen do you. No turning the other cheek(even tho maybe they should) when someone says your religion is worthless. (could have used other words here but I don't use them so)

I agree with bee here. If I am asked as most post on here do I will state my belief and try to tell you where I am coming from. Sometimes if I feel I am under attack I retaliate. But I do not push anybodies nose in my beliefs and tell them to accept or else.

i'm a woman,
Christianity attacked me first
by trying to make feel like i'm nothing but
someone's little piece.

so there....

I mean just today someone called all Christians "mentally Ill" and "fools!" "full of hate!" among other names..

geez. All you can do is defend yourself, or do nothing at all. and then what is the proper way to defend yourself in the eyes of those that call you names? Or is there one?



beats heck out of me-

This isn't true christianity.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The best thing a Christian can do is quietly turn their car around and make that Christian U-turn in what they believe is the right direction. It makes no sense to get off the car and attempt to play traffic warden or momma and poppa patrol.

I'm a woman
was a piece for old preacher man (or so he thought)

Do I lash out on Christians because of what that goat did? No. It has nothing to do with Christians, it's all about the Goat himself. He's the one to blame, not everyone else.

Christianity would not be where it is at if it was not for the thousands of Roman women who chose to convert because it was more liberating than other Roman religions at the time. The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. Mithraic Mystery cults did not even allow women to participate at all. Christianity is still the same and what you are speaking about is Victorian era mentalities that do not represent actual Christianity but rather Western history of the last few hundred years past.

Some of my family would not be Christians if it were not for my mother who chose as a young teen to jump in back of a truck that was going through her neighborhood with lively people in the back inviting others to the tent revival in a small town in Texas during the late 1960s. This was during the time when others were burning their bras but she told me once she just did not feel like it and did not see a reason to hate men.

Unless there needs to be a traffic warden or momma or poppa patrol.


As I have said in the past, If your doing good to get to heaven you doing it for the wrong reason.

oh, and in case somebody misunderstood me, I do not consider myself a part of mainstream Christianity.

I am amazed and delighted at all these posts. So civil so far! If anyone thinks true Christianity is stifling to women, please look at the burka-clad gals of Islam. But really, if your man is loving you the way the bible tells him to..you will happily follow his lead and you will be very satisfied. ((((Shankpin))))), so sorry about your old goat, but you came out with the right attitude! Glad you got away from him

Hmmm.. sorry, I won't follow a man's lead, I don't care how good a Christian he is--he will by his very nature make mistakes that can and will hurt me and vice versa. Therefore in my opinion, you walk side by side with your partner equally, honestly, and with integrity. If you have the Divine Light in your heart, that is the ONLY lead you need to follow whether you are male or female.

I don't want to get into a debate about this, but you're making assumptions based on what you believe. I am a Christian as well, I would be remiss if I did not point out to other readers of this thread that not all Christians hold your point of view, not even close.

Not all Christians beleive in Hell either. Me being one of those as well.

People push their beliefs onto others because they are insecure about their own beliefs.

"The best defense is a good offense...or is it the other way around?"-Wolverine

I did not claim to speak for all Christians. The way it ends up working if things are right, the two are walking side by side. I won't debate on that right now. As for a Christian not believing in hell, that is not Christian at all. It is clearly in the bible that there is a hell. The bible is the word of God. Jesus even quoted scripture. And if I'm not mistaken, Jesus spoke very much on the subject of hell. A literal place, not a state of being or even a thing we make up for ourselves.

Well some people who self identify with Christianity might not even rely on the Bible as one would expect. Some put more stock in the words of Buddha perhaps maybe because they believe he had the Christ-consciousness or some other New Age interpretation they hold. Either way it is true the Bible does make the male the spiritual head of the household but even a woman can have more spiritual knowledge than her spouse but she would know how to handle him while remaining faithful to the Word. The truth is in the end in matters of daily life it would be walking side by side. Some people get confused when speaking on matters of authority in specific areas and automatically consider it as sexist when it is not.

I do feel that Christianity is a very arrogant faith, despite all the love talk and so are some others. (worse probably)

And it makes me angry that many state things so matter of factly without any facts whatsoever. It is a massive intellectual insult that never seems to end. And when your intellect is bashed your emotions start playing along eventually.

Gullibility (not only of a religious nature) is also a big turn- off and I am upset when I observe it.

The emotional desperation that leads to self-deception also gets to me.

Besides, I sense some of you (SOME) are trying to save our butts for your own happy end. It's like playing teacher's pet with mostly selfish motives behind it. The disdain for us sinners peeks through eventually.

Some Christians here are so cool and honest that I can't get upset with them.

But most are a pleasure to have around (where I live anyways).

I just don't respect that bible of theirs.

All do respect GIN, :}
I don't follow a man's lead. That lead I have full control in this physical experience we call life on earth. I pay my allegiance from going through hell growing up and learning to fend for myself, seeding faith, and faith excelling. I realized it was no man that could save me, or lead me except Christ. A promise I made to have it no other way. I deal with some of the worst filthiest skums of the earth, it would take a hell of a man (no pun intended) to handle me. I'd rather not waste my time.. I'd rather have it just me and my Jesus, my Christ.

You sound like a nun Shankpin lol not that that is necessarily a bad thing or that is how you meant it. Hope you meet that 'hell of a man' or make a average guy into one I am sure you deserve it.

Now Clovis.. I didn't say this was physical aspect of man & woman.. I meant in the spiritual sense. & You can believe me, If I had the self control of a nun, which the good lord KNOWS I DON'T HAVE, I'd prolly be a nun.

No, I'd definitely be nun.

I applaud you Shankpin! Jesus is supposed to be our #1. Your priorities are right on track!

WHEN CHRISTIANS ATTACK! LOL It sounds like a TV show on Spike. As a Pagan I have had few Christians give me a bad time , but I have found most Christians are ok about my religion. I find it is the few who really stand out, like being told I worship Satan, I am one of the devil's minions, I am going to hell and other attacks of that nature. I have come up with a few come back over the years to defend myself which I enjoy in a way. I lost to Christian friends who couldn't handle my religion. That really upset me, because I don't care what religion they follow. I will always be a Pagan no matter what Christians tell me, so they are just wasting time to give me flack about my religion. What I really hate when Christians pretend they want to be my friend so they can try to convert me. When they find they can't then the friendship is over. That really hurts.

I guess it's because people think we're violating their religious rights or something, I get that a lot. :\

Why cant we just do what all the religions tell us to do???? Love one another! That much I think we can agree on....
They tell us... but do we?

Actually, given the following:

Acts 6:7
7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Acts 12:24
24 ¶ But the word of God grew and multiplied.

I would assume that the Bible is not what was being spoken of here. The Bible did not grow and multiply or increase.



And then the following:

1 Chronicles 17:3
3 ¶ And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying,

1 Kgs. 12: 22
22 But the word of God came unto Shemaiah the man of God, saying,

Thus, we see that the Bible states that the word of God came and then it follows with the word that was received, thus these verses were not the word of God.



And then this:

1 Sam. 9: 27
27 And as they were going down to the end of the city, Samuel said to Saul, Bid the servant pass on before us, (and he passed on,) but stand thou still a while, that I may shew thee the word of God.

Samuel shewed Saul the word of God, and the following is what the Bible says happened:

1 Samuel 10:1
1 Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the Lord hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?

Thus, the word of God was the annointing at this point.

The Bible contains the word of God, but it is not the word of God. The Bible is the record of the interaction between God and man as well as the record of the word of God, but it in itself is not the word of God.

Salaam (Peace)

I have rarely been attacked by Christians. Most do attempt to "save" me, but it isn't insulting to me. It is usually the non-religious types that insult me with such words as "un-evolved", "primitive", "lacking independent thought", and so forth.

Well, the 'raving lunatics' stereotype generally only applies to those with 'Jesus Camp' tendencies. Catholicism and Liberal/Mainline Protestantism don't bother me at all. Jesus Camp? Oh yes, lots.


You want a hanky to wipe your tears off with? I'm with Lt. Ripley on this one. No offense meant directly at you, Ghost It Notes, but you're making the assumption that its always the big bad non-christians who instigate the fights, who oppress those 'of the faith' etc. etc. Let me tell you something, and I hope you take note (no pun intended). When I was around 11 or 12 I had the unfortunate experience of being sent to a Christian camp run by one of the most hardline fundamentalist Colleges around: Wheaton College (nice campus though). My parents were under the mistaken impression that I, a Catholic, would fit in with the other Christians there. Not so, of course. The reception I got was by far anything BUT Christian. I was so disgusted by the buffoons who ran the camp there that I almost immediately dropped Catholicism after a particularly unpleasant run in with a couple of fundees in a heated argument pertaining to the notion of heaven and hell. The message I'm trying to give you is that you Christians are far from innocent when it comes to social matters. Don't try to hide under the 'oh poor me poor me I'm persecuted for my faith' facade. I didn't persecute first, I WAS persecuted first. I've been there, and as far as I'm concerned a rather large portion of Christian America don't actually act like Christians. I'm constantly reminded of just how much they hated me for being Catholic every time I see a pamphlet from the Watchtower Society or read a Jack Chick tract. Every time I hear some bumbling idiot claim that the Pope is the Anti-Christ or that Catholics aren't "real Christians". I'm not even Catholic anymore, I'm not even a Christian. I'm a Deist. Whens the last time you read a Deism sponsored pamphlet putting down your religion? Oh, and on another note, if you really want to feel like your 'persecuted' I suggest you convert to Catholicism, passionately and fervently love your faith, and go to Fundee Camp and read Jack Chick tracts.


God, this opens up a whole new can of worms. You "know"? "Truth"? Those are rather arrogant assumptions. You might as well teach me how to reach the Astral Plane or record the Music of the Spheres for me or bring me before the tree of life to drink its sap. And, if you read my entire paragraph above this, am I truly at fault for forsaking Christianity after my experience? I mean, all evidence against Christianity aside.


Boy, "Catholics aren't Christians", "your Church is the whore of Babylon" and "the pope is the anti-Christ" sure sound like they were said in honest, genuine good old Christian love.

Salaam (Peace)

A lot of Protestants believe that way about Catholicism. Martin Luther himself put forth such ideas, based upon their Scripture. It isn't unloving to speak what you feel is the truth, no different than pointing at government conspiracies, or corrupt cooperations, like oil and tobacco companies. According to the Bible, Jesus (AS) spoke critically of certain religious groups that were of his same faith (Mark 12:38-40). Secularist have no problem lashing out at religious people, with degrading insults, often seeming to feel very "enlightened" themselves.

you believe you have the truth doesn't mean you actually have it. I believe no one does. oh maybe a hint here and there. but 'the truth' is so far beyond our comprehension in human terms it would be like teaching physics to a donkey.

I like how you put that.

The difference is the donkey doesn't care about physics. All it cares about is mating and eating.

The name of this is why do christians attack.

Why does anyone attack?

Because they do not know any better.

Love Omnaka

thank you.

our society here permeates christianity in all it's forms so much it's like over spraying a room with bug spray - it kills everything. ( and makes the furniture sticky)

I don't have atheists or pagans or Buddhists or islamists knocking on my door wanting to save my soul. I don't see those same groups on all the channels Sunday morning preaching hell and brimstone unless they get money. Give it a break already.

The scathing reply is because they are not getting their contradictive points accross to non-believers,as we are, and without their crusader swords for us to die upon when we say 'no, I don't believe" , they get upset.

we no longer live in times of ignorant fear to be controlled by a 'book' that was written by MEN to control other lost, spiritually lacking individuals.
playing on that fear, they created hell, the devil and all sorts of visually terrifying things(alot of them adopted/stolen from pagan religions) to assuage them from wrong doing. Then came the commandments they themselves feel they are above.

I feel no ill will towards you and your faith but I have been on numerous site forums over the years and ALL of them have the angry swathing destructive responses from christians, even when someone asks them a simple question. years of bible brainwashing has made them think we are all evildoers out to get them and drag them to hell with our sins, when they do that fine by themselves......

Have any of them told you that Hell is real, and it is of your Own making. Spirit is pure consciousness.

Love Omnaka

Darkwind, you Satan-worshiping devil's minion!

Actually, as a Christian, I think that people of other religions feeling freer to openly live their beliefs is a wonderful thing. Those of us who know Christ is the only way should also remember that He only ever attacked religious zealots--those who thought they had a right to look down on others because they were "holier" than them--and so the last thing any of us should ever do is berate others' beliefs. However, pointing out how someone's beliefs are different and from our standpoint wrong in a debate is not necessarily an attack simply debate. Pointing out how Christian beliefs are being misinterpreted or misrepresented is also not necessarily an improper defensive reaction but simply providing information.

in bold is your arrogance and that is what has , among other reasons , christians attacked. it isn't just christians either... for me it's any arrogant group that thinks it's the only way. be it islamic , jew or buddhist.

the minute you think you have the only way , the truth or all the answers is the real telling to all you don't.


in green ......... so I guess your jesus would be attacking the christian religion then now as Zealots ,,,, he'd be attacking most organized religions. this isn't just about berating others beliefs but inflating your own which on it's own berates other beliefs.

can you say the line " other beliefs are just as valid to God as mine is . " ? could you say that and mean it ? of course you can't. and too many other religions think the same way... that is why they are all screwed up. many have some twisted vision that all should believe as they do and those that don't are less worthy of God. some how excluded.

you will be sharing that same heavenly space with both Jesus, Mohammed and buddha .........and every sort of person who makes up the human race. That is how big God is. IMO which is just as valid and true as anything you believe.

Jesus wants us to tell people about the gospel. ( Good news) Then, the person is able to decide on thier own, what they choose to believe. Yes, we are honestly concerned about your soul. But some of us get too hardcore on this. We just know that we want you to have the knowledge that we have. Some of us are maybe a bit too zealous. But it means a lot to us. I am sorry if some have pestered you to peices. They really mean well. I am not talking about JW or Mormons or any of those. But like I said before, don't you want to know that you have seen all of your choices before you make your decision? That is all it is to me. Once you know the true Christian option, then go with what you like. We all need to be informed about all our options. If you are approached by a zealous Christian, and you don't want to hear it, you should be able to say no thank you, and they should back off. Be warned though, some of them might pray for you!

I just had to laugh at that bolded part.


What is this "knowledge" you "know?"

Edit-The most you can do is know with your heart. And that is fine and wonderful with me and should be fine for anyone else. But as far as knowing with your mind...you know nothing.

And if Richard Dawkins came to you with his book and his beliefs, would you be open to hearing all of your options? Somehow I don't think so.

hehe, if we assume that the best form of defence is offence, then we can also say that the best form of offence is surprise. Taking these two suppositions, the best way to defend yourself is to surprise attack another person, preferably before they even know you're there or that they even want to attack you

Sorry, blame Monty Python for that one

In all seriousness, Christians sometimes "go on the attack" because someone has either insulted them, or more often, insulted the book they value as highly. When someone insults something that is so dear and precious to us, the natural reaction is to lash out. It is totally un-Chrsitian to do so. We are taught to turn the other cheek and not in any way respond with hate towards this type of thing. But some of us do it. And some of us do it more than others. I see a few Christians on these boards that really do turn the other cheek, see the other side of the picture and discourse in fellowship and love (as I believe God wants it to be). But there are others who are antagnostic and reactionary. On other forums I belong to, there are even a few Christians who would even argue with other Chrsitians and call them names and insult them because they don't have the exact same beliefs (eg, rapture - if you don't believe in it, then you're not a CHristian and destined for Hell with the rest of the heathens).

To look at the other side of the coin though, I've seen some of the posts even on this thread where non-Christians through no provocation have come on board and said totally uncomplementary and insulting things about both believers and their book. It's human nature - when it comes to our Faiths/beliefs they are very dear and important to us. Some of us are more aggressive than others. Others more passive. Some, however, are just plain rude. Most of the worst eventually either leave the site on their own or get dealt with by mods.

Just a few thoughts.....

With all intents and purposes, Jesus wouldn't say this either. Interesting that in one sentence you try and use Jesus' words to support your point of view against Iams (you are right though, many Chrisitans are more into legalistic Righteousness than following God), and in the very next sentence completely contradict everything Jesus ever stood for. Jesus only ever taught one way also.

You may see it as "screwed up" if someone believes there's only one right way, but that is truly what some people believe (it's what I believe). Though this path is not in the form of an organisation or denomination, but rather the path of a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

But since I don't want to preach, i won't continue further with that. All the best, Lt R