Non believers and believers.



A friend of mine today told me the real difference between non believers and believers.


The non-believer doesn't believe in God one of two things will happen.


1 when you die and your right nothing will happen.

2 when you die and your wrong you have some explaining to do.


The believer does believe in God one of two things will happen

1 when you die and your wrong nothing will happen

2 when you die and your right you don't have to explain why you didn't believe in God.


This is not a Christian thing this time.

I will continue to believe in God.

But simply believing is never enough for our religions. If Islam is the correct religion then both the believer and the unbeliever are in the same boat unless they follow the rules of Islam.

True but from what little I know of islam and it's followers I don't mind being in that boat.

Nah, not with the omniscience thing he has.

As an unbeliever I am fine with dying and that's it, the end, finito...
If there is a God, well, I'd be shocked to say the least.
Since I've been studying myths and the incorporation of Gods into culture for the need for crops and weather to be good, I'd be mighty suprised if this God entity/person/creator actually was real.

Following on from Cradle of Fish's (or is that Fishes?) comments, your premise, daniel, depends very much on the god that exists (if any do) being the god you believe in. There are very many gods that might exist for whom it would be better to not believe in any gods than to believe in the wrong one.

Sorry but thats not quite wrong because you can be a believer and choose the wrong god...and would have to explain to Zeus why you worshiped the false god Odin for example. Heck the real god could end up only rewarding atheists for all we know. Or Zeus may prefer a believer but take a non believer over a believer who worships Shiva. You also have to consider reincarnation.

In truth any one of the hundreds of gods that have bin believed in could theoretically exist not to mention a god could exist that we don't know about. A christian and an atheist will still have to explain themselves to the likes of Odin, Ra, Zeus, Shiva, Tom Cruis, or any number of gods that could end up being real.

So its more like this:

Believer:
-Your wrong, nothing happens
-your right and believe in the true god and are rewarded.
-your right in the belief of a god but chose the wrong one, the true god condemns you.

A believer is taking the same gamble in their afterlife as a nonbeliever.

You haven't considered that there is one god masquarding as many gods. If so then your back to the 2 chooses.

If I go through all the hassle of dying and then find myself being quizzed about why I didn't buy into some nebulous, hateful, superstitious, homo-centric belief system, I'm going to be furious.

How do you know what God is the masquerader? Is God masquerading as Zeus and Odin? Is Odin Masquerading as God and Zeus? Do all three of them exist masquerading as Shiva?

Of course you must consider that you may be wrong in that also...which puts us back to like a million possible scenarios that are all equally possible to happen(or not happen).

There could be a god with no afterlife and therefor believing or not believing doesn't matter.
There could be afterlife with no god and again believing or not believing doesn't matter.
There could be a god that doesn't care what you chose to believe or not believe in.
The true god could be mean and condemn everyone regardless of life choices.
The true god could be nice and reward good people regardless of their religious beliefs.
For all we know the true god may want you to not believe but tell you to believe as a trick.


I am not religious and yet I have the same exact chance of ending up in a torturous afterlife as you do. You believe and I do not, that is the real difference.

Then I am not going to hell after all and it doesn't matter what religon I believe in.

Personally, my thoughts on the subject...

The main difference between "believers" and "non believers" is that the latter, (in most cases) do not feel the need to come up with witty sayings, deep philosophical statements, or anecdotal stories in an effort to justify their belief to others or to themselves.

what about the people who died before God was invented? Are Neanderthal men in an afterlife wishing right now that they had thought of God first? Oh that's right, nothing will happen....or are they still explaining away why they didn't believe in a God they didn't know about because no one had thought him up yet?
If I had no knowledge about a God and died would this God see me as a believer or non believer or would he just turn a blind eye to the fact I didn't know anything about a God? It's all so ridiculous.......the mind boggles........

I do believe in 'God' , but one smart enough not to belong to any religion.

as for those who don't believe ? not a problem. they don't have to . God believes in them.

God , that universal energy , whatever you want to call it .......... is bigger than the rules man attaches to it. no need to hold a grudge or be jealous , ect ........those are human traits. no saviour needed , no tradition as well. all man made ideals.

my idea of God is too big to fit in any religious limiting box.

I never said that God was. I said you hadn't considered it.

Salaam (Peace)

Ash-Shaytan (Satan) is a believer

You are right with #1 daniel, but you are DSW(Dead Stinking Wrong) with #2.

Here's how it actually works, at least for non-believers like me.

#2 is actually split into 2 possibilities:

A. The Deity chooses people for heaven based on how good they were.
Obviously, most good people, atheist/theist, strive to be good people. All good people would get into heaven if A is correct. I strive to get into such a heaven.

B. The Deity chooses people for heaven based on what religion they were.
Then, obviously, atheists and agnostics like me don't get in. The reality of the situation, is, perhaps I don't want to get in.
If God is going to be a stuck up, imprudent, idiotic, self absorbed careless git, then I personally do not think he would be a fun person to be with or near; I'd rather go to hell.
It would be morally wrong, if you ask me, to go to heaven in such a scenario. If Ghandi and Buddha cannot get into heaven, then I refuse to go.
Overall, B amounts to:
I'd rather burn from fire in hell, then burn from guilt in heaven.

So. Quick recap of all scenarios.
1. I'm dead. Not bad at all. I spent an eternity dead already.
2. A. God is a right God, and judges people based on actions. I strive to be in this heaven. It is my personal belief that I would get into such.
2. B. God is an idiot. I go to hell, as a non-believer. And, hell is my best option in such a scenario.

So.
In all 3 scenarios, I'm where I want to be.
It is win-win-win for all good non-believers.

Now. I have explained this several times, and I already know the excuses that are going to come up.(The good ole, 'saying 1 lie is just as bad as murder!!!', and 'God can't let ANY sin into heaven') Quite frankly, once again, these Gods are morally wrong, and I'm happier farther away from them.


Cheers,
SQLserver

Good answer.

Quoted cause I am don't want to have to retype it.

HN

And why not consider the third option? When you die and you're right but discover that one of the ancient gods was the real one and now you have some explaining to do.

If you had been reading most of my posts you would know by now that I believe that almost everyone will get to heaven. Heaven is split into three kingdoms.


Very few will have to go to hell, outer darkness.


Think of the three kindgoms like this. Hominides, humans, angelic. Bee eff explains it better than i do in his mormon topic.

Interesting. I've never heard something like that before. Could you please link to Bee eff's explaination?

Sorry, I wasn't trying to attack your viewpoint; I was simply trying to explain Mine, and explain why many Christians' beliefs about my beliefs are wrong.

Cheers,
SQLserver

Is it just me, or does the fact that people see it as either you're doing (insert dogma here) or you're going to hell. That kind of mindset is a ridiculous one and it sets up the basis for a person to be intolerant to all religion.

For instance, in Judaism when a topic such as this would come up, it is confusing to the Observant Jew or Noahide because of the mindset from which it stems. In Judaism, the afterlife isn't even a concern. Granted, it is discussed, but it really isn't important. Christianity ideology has permeated the paradigms and thought processes of many people. When people think religion they think of Christianity and they make threads such as this one asking about heaven and hell. Christianity is obssesed with heaven and hell and it has spread this mindset. Thus, when a person has made a good argument against Christianity (which is quite easy to do) they either consider themselves Atheists, or become Agnostic with a general disapprving view of other religions without first giving them a chance. Why is it that people have this kind of mindset?


Danielost, what prompted you to start this thread?

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...p;#entry2362282

bee eff


no problem just explaining my/our beliefs

my friend prompted me to start this thread. Not that he know he was.

I already know that when I die, I am not going to magically waft into some heaven area, nor hell...I can gurantee I am still going to be 'running' around o well.

This thread is giving me a headache. LOL It's like an Abbot and Costello routine LOL.

Leo's is the only question I can answer... it's "Cradle of Fish's" since it's showing ownership of his comment (I know it looks weird lol). If his name was Cradle of Fishes it would be Cradle of Fishes' since it's showing ownership of his comment and it's plural. If you were talking about more than one Cradle of Fish, it would be Cradle of Fishes.

Woo hoo! Now I'm-a-sharin' my headache with EVERYONE! LOL.

Who's on First? Whose on First!

....

You missed a valid point

Believers would have wasted countless hours of their lives praying etc towards God, if nothing happened

I knew the grammar, MMW, was just making a light-hearted comment...

...and the answer is yes, Who's on first. LOL!!!!!! (love the original routine)

Very good post SQL excellent points. If I might add a little to your post as it is very much in line with what I was going to say...and frankly I haven’t had enough coffee yet to want to retype everything at this early hour anyway.

First off let me say that people should be able to believe whatever it is they want to believe and gives them comfort. If people find happiness with a given religion, that is wonderful...but I do not agree with the agressive marketing/conversion campaigns that some religions use...mainly the extreme end of christianity...

I think there is a lot of DSW going around these days for the fact that people (Not necessarily christians) get so wrapped up in their religions that they can no longer take a step back and see things in a bigger perspective against the real world and not just inside their own little microcosm of judgment and illogical deities that act harshly, and senselessly at random. It saddens me to see that they cannot see that much of the doctrine simply does not make any logical sense.

Any religion can look at another religion and consider it outdated, with crazy, pointless rituals and odd ceremonies. It is true of any religion. Islam, christianity, judaism, paganism, satanism, chocolatism...The kicker is that the super judgmental religions have the oddest aspects to them and are the most resistant to being evaluated or challenged. Talk to a Buddhist about a scientist that just made a scientific leap in a lab regarding an experiment that goes to prove aspects of evolution and they will congratulate you after seeing the evidence. Show the same thing to some Christians and you will get coffee thrown in your face after the argument in which you were told that you are going to hell for not believing; as if believing makes it so...and not the facts.

The difference between believers and nonbelievers?

There are many people who are believers in each faith who are wonderful, thoughtful, caring people and are great spokespeople for their religion and answer questions well and are knowledgeable and balanced and people I enjoy spending time with. Makes for some great discussions and exchanges of ideas. Somehow the most zealous believers that “know” they are going to be saved and know what is best for me and love to tell me what I should do for my soul and somehow can speak for god and what gods plans are.

Those kind of people end up with TV shows if they are charming enough, or if they are nuts they end up on a soapbox on a random street corner…or more than likely they end up sitting in the airplane seat next to you on the flight from LA to New York so that you end up trying to figure out if your shoelaces are strong enough to successfully hang yourself from the overhead bin by about the time you get to the Nevada state line…

Or they end up in any of a number of places around you on a regular basis telling you how wrong you have been and how right they are and how they are there to save you, how they have all the answers… Well it gets old, when you can sit down and discuss the bible with them and all they can do is parrot what they have been told by their pastor and have no independent thought, and the split second you throw out any kind of questions that they have not been trained for they fall apart.

The best thing I get from those people(Which we see here on a regular basis) is that they are the greatest anti-religion advertisers that money could never pay for. You simply couldnt ask for anything better than to have a bunch of painfully overzealous hamhanded know-it-alls showing themselves for what they are, and the fact that they are doing such damage to their cause yet thinking that somehow they are serving their god is just irony at its finest for me. I can only imagine that if there is a christian god as they think there is, than they themselves are going to get a stern talking to, and I would pay good money to be a fly on a cloud for that dressing down...oh the look on their faces...

As for nonbelievers...I dont recall ever being accosted as I was walking through the mall by people who stopped me and said "hello, can I take a minute and tell you the good news about nothingness?" nor do I have people ring my doorbell at eight in the morning on a Sunday with wearing suits and carrying pamphlets to tell me about how after I die I am going to putrify and turn into wormfood... I guess there isnt enough money in that business...

If Buddha and Ghandi and Einstein and all of the worlds great people cant get into this heaven, and all of the crazy zealots can I wouldnt want to be there anyway, so I guess it isnt that big of a deal...

But when it was over who would care.

Aye and please be joining us at the Heathen Inn Pub just down the street where we can raise a glass...

(is it any wonder my real name is Heather?)

And what if the afterlife experience is something never considered by the human mind? Would that fall within your scenario?

We are taken to a parallel universe . . . . we become part of the energy of space itself . . . . we reincarnate perpetually . . . . No God . . . . no explanations . . . . no consequences . . . .

Yes it does. This would be your belief. Thus falling in the those who believe cat.