Interesting to say the least
Ice on Mars

and the soil is that of garden soil, not toxic, great isnt it, so no need to take grow bags on a manned mission

Fascinating indeed, as a bare 30 years ago you would have been laughed at and called a charlatan for suggesting either of those theories.

There is hope yet!

Oh, I don't think you would have found very many scientists laughing about water ice on Mars 30 years ago. We've known at least since the Viking missions that there is definitely water ice on the surface of Mars. Here's a journal abstract from just about 32 years ago (link):

Science 17 December 1976:
Vol. 194. no. 4271, pp. 1339 - 1341

Mars: Northern Summer Ice Cap—Water Vapor Observations from Viking 2
CROFTON B. FARMER ¹, DONALD W. DAVIES ¹, and DANIEL D. LAPORTE ^2
1 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology, Pasadena 91103
² Santa Barbara Research Center Goleta, California 93017

Observations of the latitude dependence of water vapor made from the Viking 2 orbiter show peak abundances in the latitude band 70° to 80° north in the northern midsummer season (planetocentric longitude 108°). Total column abundances in the polar regions require near-surface atmospheric temperatures in excess of 200°K, and are incompatible with the survival of a frozen carbon dioxide cap at martian pressures. The remnant (or residual) north polar cap, and the outlying patches of ice at lower latitudes, are thus predominantly water ice, whose thickness can be estimated to be between 1 meter and 1 kilometer.

Submitted on October 18, 1976

The fact that Phoenix has found water ice isn't a surprise to anyone involved with the mission. We sent Phoenix to the northern plains of Mars specifically because we EXPECTED to find water ice just a few inches below the surface at that location. All the data said it should be there, and it is!

Spoil sport

Yep, that's me!

Correct, spoil sport.




And furthermore, if we go back to before we realized that water ice existed on the planet, I still don't think any scientist would've laughed or inferred that the speculator was a charlatan. Lots of them were speculating on that possibility, and likely hoping that one day we might know for sure.

I think the reaction at such a proposal would've been along the lines of, "Well, we certainly hope so. But it'll be a while, me thinks, before we'll be able to know for sure."

Carl Sagan would've said, with a considered look, sans smile "Well, maybe."

Gawd..I am getting ancient, sign of it when you type 30 years ago and mean the 60s . It was generally considered that the caps were frozen Co2 and that the chance of finding water/ice on a bodies surface, anywhere in the solar system other than Earth, was virtually zero.

Don't be so hard on yourself!



The caps are still mostly C02. I think you may be right about the ideas in the 60s, but of course, once we saw the surface, one couldn't help but make assumptions...or have hopes about water.

Now, we know!

I love it!! Thx for the link.

Now we need to get our butts over there.

Not for nothin' do you guys / gals think that if indeed it is water as we know it, there will exist organisms in the water or traces of old organisms?

here me out here people.
SO, if our universe is expanding (like some say), could mars have once been habitable? as in, closer to the sun? capable of supporting life? possibly why theres ice on mars. maybe it Had organisms living there, but after sooo many years, of moving further away from the sun, the life couldnt live anymore? everything just died? the water froze?

That goes to show that science is indeed self-correcting.

Well, the truth is that water is rather abundant in space, especially in the form of vapor. Oxygen and Hydrogen are really abundant in space, and they tend to bond to become water even without electric shock.

Absolutely, "Fox".

It's a possibility. We don't know yet for sure. That's why we're there, experimenting as best we can.
I don't know that the situation had anything to do with moving farther from the Sun. I don't even know what the situation IS!
That's why we do science...the possibilities are intriguing...and immense.

im not quite sure either. i was just bringing it up. i thought i had heard some theories in regards to the universe is expanding, or always has been, and is getting larger. or something along those lines. id have to read up more on it as well.

oh.....and No one, calls me by my first name...ok? lol except mom dad and samantha

Sorry, Moulder.

Even Agent Scully never actually called you Fox, as I recall...


I was being completely inappropriate...apologies !

I just love this place.

haha, think nothing of it.
however, im still trying to get more info on that theory or w/e. with the universe constantly expanding and such.
if anyones got some good legit info, feel free to post it.

OK...but I'm still wondering if Agent Scully and you, uh....well, you know that last episode was really sweet. Left alot to the imagination. I'm sure you're not telling!


The expanding universe has been the predominant idea since Edwin Hubble discovered the recession of galxies way back in 1929.

However, there's a "new" idea.
The universe doesn't appear to have enough mass to counteract the effects of expansion. But you might want to investigate "Dark Matter", or "Dark Energy". This information is readily available on line, and a subscription to Astronomy magazine would be a big plus (alot of very qualified people publish in that journal).

Just maybe, there is enough unseen matter in the universe to prohibit this expansion...

Check that out. It's "cosmological"!

This is a bit out of my league. But... I thought the theory was that the universe expands and then contracts, resulting in another "big bang" and so it goes on forever like a beating heart.
One theory is that every galaxy in the universe has a super massive star or black hole in the center, each black hole will then gain extreme mass and eventually collide with each other, resulting in a new big bang. Anyway it's something like that if I remember correct...

Another explanation could be that the gods are eating coco-pops and then run out of milk.

ah. that fricken dark matter. doesnt that account for most of space? or something like that?
thx for the post though, ill have to look into it. i wasnt aware that they dont think it has enough mass to do that.