What's up everyone?
I'm a christian.
I was wondering what everyones veiws were?
What do you think about:
Gay marrige
Abortion
etc. (whatever other topic you can come up with)
So yeah just tell me your thoughts.
Roast Obama/McCain if you want!
This is a free speech post for people to express their views!
And to talk about common views with others!
So yeah just start talkin'!
Let's see where it goes lol

Hi.

I don't try to put any labels on myself or force myself in any kind of mold or pigeonhole. In fact, I couldn't even begin to do that. IMO, one thing wrong with the world is people getting attached to their labels and setting themselves against others who are also attached to their particular labels: Liberal vs. conservative, believer vs. nonbeliever, straight vs. gay, etc.

This may be human nature to some extent, but I think we are capable of doing better. The only thing that's required of us IMO is to see the other person as a fellow human being first, instead of a label. We all have wishes, hopes, fears, doubts. We all have higher qualities: Love, compassion, intelligence, faith. And we all suffer.

In other words, the goal is to realize that there is no "them", only "us."

I'm not a christian
Gay marriages... its not my place to judge others for their sexual preference..
Abortion .. this is a touchy one.. .. depending on the circumstances..

I feel people in the world are two concerned what others believe, we all arent perfect... I dont mind if a person is gay, bisexual or straight, I dont mind if a person is a Christian, Jew or Pagan... I believe in not judging a person for what they believe in or their faith.. as long as they are happy with oneself. Give me the same respect as I give them. Then the world would be a happy place.. Well, i can only hope.

Creators Blessings
Little Wolf

Visit My Website

ditto - except for gay marriage - sure I'm for it being a lesbian. not that I want to get married. (shudder) but I'd like the equal right to according to the constitution.

I am not a Christian, I am a Noe-Celtic Druid.

I think Gay people should be able to get married. I don't think it harms society in general to allow two people who love each other to express that love.

While I value all life and I myself fine abortion to abhorrent it is not for me to decide for what a women should do with her body. Women have a right to proper medical care and I don't see any good from making abortion illegal again. It don't stop abortion it just take it out of the hands of trained medical people and puts it in hands of criminals.

I am not a Christian. I was a Catholic for many years, but I left the Church a long time ago.

Gay Marriage? I don't care, at all, that a man and a man want to get married. Its really none of my business and if they truly want to spend the rest of their lives together, I don't see why not.

Abortion? I generally avoid talking about abortion. I'm male and almost 20, so I really don't feel qualified to tell someone what to do with their body. When it comes to abortion, I usually end up leaving the debate.

Obama? I know he seems like a great guy, but c'mon. Hes an Illinois politician. All Illinois politicians are corrupt as hell. George Ryan, Rod Blagojevich, The Daley Dynasty, Tony Rezko running things from behind the scenes. And this is just recent stuff.

McCain? Yeah, I'll vote for him when I too feel like invading Iran.

I don't know if I'm going to vote this upcoming election. I really wanted Ron Paul, but that didn't happen, so I'm either not going to vote or find a third party.

Christian here but I do not belong to any sort of organized religion because most of them are BS. Christ did not like the religious groups while he was on earth, and frankly for the most part either do I. Personally gay people have free-will to act as they please but I believe marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman, Adam was married to Eve not Steve, and that's how it was intended to be. People nowadays are too accepting of gay marriage and that is just not right. Look at all the nations in our past that were accepting of homosexual behavior, look what happened to them? My best friend actually revealed to me he is gay, I didn't disown him in the least bit, that's on him, thats his free-will and I still talk to him very frequently. Abortion obviously i'm against, if you are responsible enough to be having sex you should be responsible enough to take care of the end result of it. Obama/McCain doesn't matter to me, I believe most of the world leaders are corrupt and hand-picked and elections don't mean anything. Look at how GW got into office. Most of the world leaders are cultist and belong to secret fraternities.

Whoa whoa guys.
Calm down.
I was just wondering what your beliefs were out of curiosity.
Just chill, there was no specific thing that you HAD to answer about gay marrige and abortion.
Personally I don't care if gay men, and lesbian women get married.
That's their poragative.
Abortion however, I believe is murder.
So just calm down, this is a friendly topic, not to be taken to extremes lol.

You're new here so you don't know whenever you bring up abortion or gay marriage the topic explodes until the mods shut it down. Hail and Welcome to UM.

Hi AS,
Friendly the topic may be, and I hope it remains so, but your statement that you believe abortion to be "murder" is unlikely to aid that ambition.

I have no problem with you saying that, it's just that I doubt a topic discussed in such terms will remain friendly and 'chilled out': you're probably implying that some people posting here on this forum are murderers.

To return to the OP, I'm not a Christian, for the two reasons that 1) I don't believe in God, and 2) I find it hard to make Christianity 'make sense' regardless of the God question.

I do agree with gay marriage (I have never, ever come across any convincing reason other than people's own prejudices as to why it should be prevented). It's refreshing to see you as a Christian also at ease with the idea.

Regarding abortion, it is a complex matter. I see nothing intrinsically wrong with it, provided we are as sure as we can be that legal time limits on abortion are based on the best research available, always subject to revision with the latest findings, and that each case of abortion is treated with seriousness, provided this does not compromise accessibility. There has to be a point at which a collection of cells becomes a living, sentient human, and this fact to me indicates that there is accordingly a point at which that collection of cells is not yet a human. Health and wellbeing of both mother and potential baby should always be taken into account, and to my mind it is only a religious question for those who are religious.

Regarding American politics, I don't really feel qualified to join in, other than to voice a jaundiced view of most politicians [insert Woody Guthrie quote of your choice here]. Obama seems like a pleasant sort, and certainly I'd come down closer to the Democrats than the Republicans if pushed, though I doubt I'm particularly close to either. What is it that made you insert the political question in the thread on 'Christianity'? I ask because it seems that Americans often seem to view religion as an intrinsic part of their political affiliations, despite the stated separation of church and state, whereas we here over the pond have an established church, and yet take the general view, I think, that the two entities are separate (whether in practice they are or not). But they're all Christians, aren't they? Is the 'brand' of Christianity important to your vote, or is it a more general perceived correlation between a politician's stated religion and his or her other convictions and ideals?

Interesting thread.

i'm catholic
Gay marrige - i say let them get married
abortion - i think its the womans choice to have the kid or not
Obama/McCain -none but i think McCain will win (another bush term) ='[

Hi Angels. Well you definately hit all the hot topics, religion, sex, politics.

Gay marriage: I'm all for it I think they should have the same rights the rest of us do to marry someone they love. I think celebrity marriages should be illegal though....just kidding
Abortion: I believe people should have the right to choose its their body their decision their karma. Personally though partial birth abortion bothers me alot I think if your gonna do it don't wait forever buts thats just my opinion that is tied to the emotion of losing a child of my own and not having a choice in the matter.
Obama/Mccain: Quite honestly I don't care for either one I would have been far more impressed to see Guiliani run but than again I'm a native New Yorker Politics is just that politics. I was always fasinated with the fore fathers of the country and the idea that the government worked for the people and now its more of the government owns the people and does whatever they please and we blindly follow in many ways like sheep to the slaughter. One of my all time favorite quotes "when the government fears the people there is liberty, when the people fear the government it is tyranny."
Religion: I think religion is fairly unimportant in the scheme of things. Yes it is a great tool for some to achieve their goals but it also in the same breath is and has been a great weapon for people to achieve their goals. I do not care for any organized religion although I do think it is wonderful for people to come together and pray or put whatever positive energy out into the world but organized religion creates alot of problems in segregating like minded people from the rest of the world in my opinion.

Welcome to UM, AS. Raised Jewish, currently Agnostic. I'm for Gay Marriage and 100% Pro-Choice. I'm an Obama supporter and think he'll be POTUS in November. Other views: I think handguns should be banned and removed from the planet. Think about it: all of those handguns (and assualt weapons, too) melted down... the $$$ the US would save not having to import that steel from China! I'm pro-Universal Healthcare (Obama's version). I think that Major League Baseball should institute a salary cap.

Don't think about it, and don't think anyone interested in being President should either. It's a state's rights issue.



It's an education issue (most things today can be traced to education, or rather, the lack thereof). It's not a Presidential issue. It's a court issue. Bring a case, let them decide.
Personally, I view it as an over used birth control method. It's something that may have a place in highly limited critical circumstances, but as a convenience, a crutch to hang on when you've done something you should have thought about a bit more, or as an action to take because you've decided you simply don't want a baby right now...nope. It's weak.



It's difficult to "roast" McCain. Conservatives certainly have their issues with him, but the man's coming along a little more nowadays. He's a man of dignity, and ability, and experience, and hasn't said anything utterly stupid, nor has any associations that make him highly unattractive.

Roasting Obama would be easy, because he has no experience, his ideas are detrimental and socailist, his association cast excessive doubt on his character and motives, he's never once defined his mantra of "change", and has outlined no plan to remedy the problems of import that face America.

While most discerning people do in fact understand what he means by "change", and are (or should be) very worried about it, roasting him on this forum is rather pointless. I think he'll continue the process of doing that himself as time goes on...

A classic example of why understanding Obama makes rational people worried.
The cool-aid is taking effect...

Gay marriage and pro-choice is irrelevant to Presidential politics.

The banning of handguns won't be happening (thankfully), since the Supreme Court made it's decision on the matter just a day or two ago, re-affirming the Constitution.

Universal health care has never succeeded anywhere it's been tried.

And Major League Baseball is a private business and has no relevance to national issues.

Try drinking a beer, instead of the Obama cool aid...

These are all excellent replies.
My views:

Gay Marrige: Hey why not right? You can't control who you fall in love with, if you're a dude and love a dude, then go for it.
If you're a chick and love a chick, then hey why not, it's your desicion, not mine.

Abortion: I (personally) believe that all babies should be given the opportunity to be born.
I believe that as soon as it is concieved it's a human being and needs to be treated as such (but that's just my personal view)

Obama: Ok where to begin? First off, he's really young 46 years old is not a very experienced politic.
Plus that whole thing about most christians thinking he's the "anti-christ".
Come on! Chill out with that! He's not the anti-christ you paranoid freakzoids!

McCain: WAY to old, how old is this guy? 85?! (71 years old to be exact)
However, he has alot of experience being a politician.

Ok, one more topic I wanna cover:

Church and state: I believe that they should be totaly seperate.
With the exception of The Ten Commandments.
They have many good values to base laws around.
Other than that, I do not think that religion should interfere with political standings.
I believe that when you go to vote, you need to leave your religion at home.

the Obama cool aid ? lol is that anything like mccrazy mccains abusive nature towards his wife ? or his huge history of flip flops ?

You need to ask yourself this question. Who should have more of a right to get married and raise a child? Two men or two women who love each other and will adopt a needing child. Or a man and a woman who get married only because the woman got pregnant and may very likely result in a broken home.

Christian Mutt
Let them get married- I am! Im straight
Abortion-mostly Mothers choice as long as its very early-later abortions no way-baby already taking form etc....little fingers and toes--( I know they taken for from conception) --mothers health first hand concern
Obama- Gets elected pres --- hillary bumps him off to be pres... As much as I dont like Bush-I dont feel which is a worse evil?????

e.g If you were raped and fell pregnant due to this act.. You would be happy to have the child and remember each day that she/he was conceived through you being raped.

A child should be conceived through love and passion.






TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!

Creators Blessings
Little Wolf

Visit My Website

you can close all the abortion clinics , yet it will revert to back alleys and kitchen tables ,, where just as many abortions can take place and on top of that the women die because of it.

so it would be more deaths and more children in orphanages ( my mothers second husbands siblings were raised in various ones = not happy places.) and since most of those christians calling to close abortion clinics are republicans they sure as hell aren't going to want their taxes raised to care for those kids. watch them belly ache when dems have to raise taxes to pay for Bushs lie of a war they wanted. want the war just don't want to pay for it.

I say everyone that is pro war alone should have to pay for the Iraq war. you broke it you bought it. there would be lots of crying flip floppers then.

First off.
If I was a woman, then yes I would.
I know a girl that was raped and had a child because of it.
She loves him very much.
She wouldn't trade him for the world.
Second.
It doesn't matter how the child was conceived.
It's still a child.
And third.
What's the purpose of killing an inoccent child that hasn't even gotten a chance at life?
You'd rather let a baby die, than a grown woman who's been alive for however long?
That's still killing a child.
And I still think it's wrong.

Here is the kicker on the entire abortion topic. Whether or not I or anyone else opposes or accepts abortion is irrelevant. Women should have the right to choose. It is that simple.

somehow I find it hard to believe you know such a woman. Oh not saying it doesn't happen. a few years back an interview ( 20/20 or some such show ) done with a woman who was raped and conceived. it haunted her everyday. she loved the child but still ...............

now lets pretend your daughter was raped in the street by some nut.......... you think she should keep it ?

your reply just shows you clearly don't understand the devastating nature of rape.






too true.

Angelshadow, I would love to hear your views when you are older... I was against abortions for "me" when I was 17yrs old.

Well, if I was ever Raped.. I would like to have a choice whether to keep the child or have an abortion.. In Australia a girl was gang raped... would you expect her to keep a child that was conceived that way...

I was adopted.. due to my natural parents being violent and having a drinking problem.. I asked my adoptive parents who my birth parents were.. I am so glad they never had to say "darling your father raped your mother, that is why you are here now".

Imagine if I did have a child due to being raped and when that child wanted to meet his/her father... I wouldn't lie, cause then that would be another lie on how he/she was conceived.

I have a friend who was raped at 14yrs old... I was in my early 20's.. she came to me cause she was scared to go to her parents.. Which we did together.. Her parents took her to the doctors and had all the tests done for diseases plus a pregnancy test.. which came back postive... Yes she did have an abortion.. How could a 14yr old emotionally deal with being raped and then having to give birth to this child.

I am sorry, but it should be the women's or young women's choice.

Creators Blessings
Little Wolf

Visit My Website

So if something will revert to back alleys and kitchen tables then we should sanction wholesale murder. The last person who did that was called the anti-christ and we are still hunting down his followers.

If that is the way you feel then we should legalize all drugs. Since that would kill the drug industry.

I would rather our tax money go to orphanages than abortion clinics and to pay for all those druggies.

The lds church gives the following exceptions for abortions otherwise there shouldn't be one. The health of the mother, rape. There are a couple of more i don't remember them

Not a Christian.

Gay Marriage? Of course. I don't see the difference.

Abortion? Meh, not for me, but who am I to tell someone else what to do with their own bodies?

Obama please. Mccain sends shivers up my spine, and after the last 8 years, I am ready to move to some remote island as far away from the US as I can.

I'm a Christian

gay marriage: absolutely not, the act is perverse, stuff like it is where the word perverted comes from and for society to say fine what is perverted and unnatural is just as good and equal to what is right and natural is just wrong and messes up childrens minds into not knowing what's right and what's wrong. What's normal and what's bizare. Not to mentions it angers God and with the way the country is going already it's the last thing we need. I'd also just like to say the death of america is very near when judges in california OVERRIDE democracy in that state by ignoring the calfornia citizens that voted against gay marriage in official votes on it.

abortion: absolutely not once again. killing babies is what it is...killing babies. If you don't want it then give it away after it's born, better that than being dead.........I'd also just like to add that I find it funny that no one seems to have a problem with mothers killing their children but everyone stands up and fights for the rights of child rapists and murders and stops them from getting the death penalty.

Guns: For em! We have a right to bear arms and if there was ever a time when we might need them to defend our liberties it would be now..... I'm sure a time is coming in the near future when americans are going to have to decide..... Do we stand up for our rights and liberties and tear this corrupt government down, or do we as americans and our great country fade away without so much as a wimper as our rights and liberties are stolen and we lose our country to socialism.

Obama/Mccain: who cares, there's no difference between them, I don't like either one. Like most red blooded americans out there I don't have a dog in the race, not that it would matter since the race has been rigged for a long, long time. And even if the race could be run fairly, and there was a honest dog out there he wouldn't be able to get on the ballet because of impossible to meet candidate standards set by the two dominate parties.

Borders: I say secure them. No more illegals and no more jobs for them when they come over here. This is no time to be politically correct, it's time to profile...... everyone who isn't a european white american or a black african american should have to produce birth certificate, ss card, and drivers lc (all needing to be verafied before hire) to get a job in this country. Of course there would be exceptions through our immigration system (that needs to be revamped by the way), but profiling and strict compliance with citizenship identification should be enforced.

Free Trade: Hate it! Lets get rid of it and bring back american business and start making things here.

Oil: lets start drilling here and lets get making refineries. Who cares if it'll still take 5 to 10 years for all that to get up and running to the point where it brings prices back down, it's better then gas being 30 dollars a gallon in 5 to 10 years.

Economy: Here's an idea lets stop giving billion upon billions of dollars to these third world countries and spend our money here! There's a reason our government is called the U.S. gov., it's because it supposed to work exclusively for the interests of the U.S., not the U.N., africa, the middle east, or china! And how about instead of rebuilding New Orleans levis to the same level they were before, we spend the extra money (that'll pay off in the long run) and build the levi's to withstand an F-5 instead of spending 8 million dollars to reasearch new ways (other than levis) to keep water out!!! And here's the biggest and most intelligent money saver.....how about we stop financing palestine and saudi arabia by giving them tons of money as well as weapons and weapon technology (did we forget they're our enemies and hate us??!!!!!)

Going green: NO! Not unless your reffering to the color my face gets when I get naseas and nearly puke when I hear this global warming crap over and over again. Mankind is not causing global warming, IN FACT GLOBAL WARMING ISN'T EVEN HAPPENING! If you've heard recent news or had facts you'd know that the world wide temperature has been cooling for the past 10 years. There's more ice on the caps now then there was years ago. And wasn't it just snowing in the U.S. in May or something? And no, i'm not for ignoring the oil we have and spending all of our efforts to find new sources of energy. We fix the problem now by getting and refining oil which stabalizes our economy and THEN we work on other sources of energy. WHICH, once we have, we begin distributing throughout the world to other countires making oil obsolete and bankrupting all those saudi princes and the terrorist they fund.

Space: space is cool, but how about we put a HALT to all spending and plans to go to mars or do anything until our economy is back where it needs to be.

War in Iraq: enough is enough. The Iraqi's have more then enough of their own troops now to defend themselves. The best thing for us to do would be to pull out now unless we wanna stay until the president of iran makes his next visit and assinate him. Seriously though, assisnating the iran president or not while we have a great chance to do so..... we set a deadline we're out in a year wheter Iraq has it's mess together or not. And lets get out of Afghanistan too, it's not our country. I thought we went there to get osma not pitch a tent and live there while we support a new government we helped create do nothing but get in skirmishes with the former regime every now and then.

911: Inside job, if all the scientific evidence and facts don't prove it... then I'd think G.W. saying he doesn't think about bin laden, he's not a threat, he's not concerned with him......about the guy he vowed to get and bring to justice, would convince you of something smelling a little rank.

TV: I'd like to know where all the TV Censors and parental ratings people are when homosexual acts are being shown or talked about or hinted to on nearly all main stream tv shows these days. People still can't cuss, but it's okay for bob and brian to be lip locking! I'm sorry, but myself and most americans don't want to see that garbage on tv, and we surely don't want our kids to see it! Where are the network censors?! Why is this crap allowed on tv like it's normal and okay? I'm sick of the hollywood gay agenda. It wasn't long ago when a whole family could sit down at home on the couch and enjoy an abc tgif line up of family sitcoms, but not anymore......not if you don't want to see something vile and wind up vomiting your pop corn all over the floor.

Reality TV shows: Sick of em'. They're crap. Give me some artistic screenplay talent! What happened to theater, drama, film making? Where are the good shows these day?

Music: Dismal. All you can really do is dust off all the old records, cassettes, and cds because todays music across the genre boards is pretty worthless.

hmm... I think i'm about out of opinions. I'll write more if I think of something else...........

Not a Christian

Gay Marriage - Marriage should be religious only, unions should be government. They should be two separate things. However, as long as the government is not doing this, then they should be allowed to marry. You want to be married, whether straight, gay, or bi; go to see your religious counselor. Want to be together with someone and have the government acknowledge it (thus getting benefits), get a civil union.

Abortion - Woman gets to choose, not 78 year old males that think they know what's best for them.

Guns - Make guns illegal and the only ones who won't have guns will be those that follow the law. Criminals will get them anyways. We have a city nearby that has a mandatory gun policy if you wish to live there. The crime has been low since then.

Elections - Why can't we just work together to try and fix what problems this country has? Democrat wins, they should get a VP from another party. Republican wins, same deal as Dems. Helps ideas to flow if you aren't constantly being fed things you (and/or your party) already think.

druggies ?? what makes you thing the majority of women who got back alley abortions were druggies ???

remove abortion in medical clinics and it WILL revert back to the back alleys - like it's been for eons before the safety of clinics. A good movie to see ? Vera Drake -- great movie by the way.

who by the way was called the anti christ ? I know some have called Bush so , Hitler , bin laden , the list is endless. nero , napoleon. stalin. ect .....................even the pope.

I don't think there is an 'anti-christ' any more than there is a 'christ'.

what makes you think i think the majority of women are druggies.

oops my mistake - I seen abortion clinics and druggies in the same line and equated the two .

I am agnostic. Personally, I do not find christianity very appealing, (Well, any religion for that matter).
God, It's a nice concept I suppose. If one wants to believe in it then so be it, just don't push it on me.
(Remember, God can be real to the individual, not to everyone).

As for abortion! I am pro-choice, concidering it as a murder is a choice. There can be serious mental and
physical ramifications in going with the pregnancy, as well as aborting it. Thats why it should be a choice.

As for gay/gay marriage! So, be it, it's a choice. Actually, I don't really concider it a choice, some people are
born the way they are, and have always felt the want for the same sex.

Presidency, I am not very political at all. But, by going on what I have read in the last year; I am leaning
toward Obama. I think it's time for a change.

Church should be completely seperate from state.




Regards,
Tom

I'm agnostic.

Gay marrige - I think they should have the same rights as everyone else.

Abortion - I am pro-choice. I would not have one myself unless I really had too but it's good to know that I have a choice.

Obama/McCain - I really don't care.

I am a christian...

Gay marriage -- absolutely, my church has been marrying gay couples for a long time, it's not secularly legal, but in the eyes of God... well, no one has been hit by lightening yet.

Abortion -- it's not for me, but I won't tell another woman what to do. Never. And I can remember pre Roe vs Wade, my mother taking a neighbor for a back alley abortion, it was BRUTAL, and her friend hemmoraghed and almost died. My mother was concerned for a couple of years that they were going to come after her for aiding this young woman. Keep abortion legal, but I would never recommend anyone have one, but it's up to the individual.

Obama vs McCain... I have to take the lesser of two evils... Obama.

And the freaking government needs to STOP, IMMEDIATELY with the Major League Baseball Inquisition. that is the LAST thing our government needs to be spending time and money on. Ridiculous. i've alway been a huge baseball fan... loved baseball season... now, I just don't care anymore. *sigh*

Get the troops out of Iraq immediately... this war needs to be over pronto.

So basically what you're saying.
Is that the mother should get to choose whether their child lives or dies?
So my mother could come into my room.
Shoot me dead.
And that would be okay to you?
'Cause that's the same concept of abortion.
For a mother to "abort" (a.k.a kill) her unborn child.
And it's up to her to play God?
That's kind of odd to hear.
That a mother get's to choose who lives and who dies.

AS, at what point do the sex cells become a proper human being, the destruction of which constitutes murder?

Is it the moment of conception? Further down the line? Before sperm and egg meet? Ever thus?

No. You'd have to speak to McCain's wife to substantiate something so nonsensical.
She doesn't say anything about it....




Flip-flops?
Obama is the king in that department. This sounds like sour grapes, and a manner of avoiding the obvious...

In bible days.
A birthday was the apprx. date of conception.
They were not entirely accurate.
But that's how it goes.
And as soon as the sperm hits the egg.
That's when it becomes a human being.
Because it starts to develope human cells.
And it starts to grow.
As humans do.
And so there for.
It may not be a fully developed human.
But it is still human.
And it is still alive.

That is a matter of opinion, it does not concede as a fact.

I'm Christian, but going by views in this thread and in other recent threads, I don't think you want to hear my view

*what I mean by that is I'll respond tomorrow, hopefully not cause such an uproar or stir.

I see. So when the two are separate, they're just cells; when they're together, it's a human.

Seems a bit 'sudden'. What happens at that moment?

It's a lot to base murder charges on.

I've gotta say, that's a mouthful of opinions.
I agree fundamentally with most of it, but I do feel compelled to elaborate on a couple of them...







There is absolutely no reason to feel that American oil reserves cannot be tapped, and produce effective economic and energy supply effects in a lot shorter a time than the 10-15 years that naysayers indicate will be necessary.

It can be implemented immediately. A nation which was unprepared for war in 1941, and which had it's Navy dessimated by Japan, re-built and produced the most formidable fighting force on the planet in a matter of 2 years, and defeated Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan two years later. Anyone who tells me that America, already posessing the technology and capability to do so, cannot reduce foreign oil dependence in a similar amount of time is engaging in fantasy.

It can be done, and it must be done. Perhaps no other issue is of more immediate importance as pertains to economic growth, national security, and investment and development of alternative energy sources for the future. Get the government and its archaic and misguided regulations and restrictions out of the oil and automotive company's business, and they'll do the job effectively...because they're the only people who can do it.





There you go!




Space expenditure has nothing to do with the economy's state as it exists...save to say that increasingf spece expenditure has always provided advantages, technologically, and economically.
Space expenditure is a pittance compared to most all other government programs (it's utterly insignificant), and it is the best bang for the government buck there is. Most of the technological and scientific advancements that we take for granted in areas from industry to medicine to personal computers and all the conveniences we take for granted today and hardly think about are directly resultant from space research and development.

If anything, governmental reduction in many areas is necessary, and an increase in NASA expenditure is advised.




I tend to agree now with a deadline for Iraq to have its act together, followed by a controlled re-deployment. We'll probably always have troops there in some capacity...but we've got to put some fear into Iraq now and get their act together. We've also got to stop paying Musharef for doing nothing and let him know we're going to do the job we contracted to him ourselves, and go all out. Move over, we're finally coming to take care of business.

You combine that with a concentrated program to drill for our own oil, and you'll see what should've happened years ago. We'll have Iran by the balls. They'll have no leverage...



.


I think it smells of the realization that Iraq was executed without appropriate forethought.





God knows, I have no idea.



Ditto!

Well you can't very well put two eggs together.
Or two sperm together.
And make a baby.
If that were possible then women would get pregnant without sex.
And from what I hear it's impossible to have a baby without the sperm AND the egg.
So..... yeah.
As soon as the sperm hits the egg.
(Granted sperm, and eggs are living organisms, but they are two halves of a whole human. You need both.)

Ok so right before the baby is born it's not alive?
Just when is it alive then?
Six weeks?
Six months?
Two weeks?
No.
Right when it is conceived.
It becomes a living human organism.

I think that's a very complex and difficult-to-answer question, to which a simple, religion-given answer cannot do justice.

I think we would all agree that a foetus is a bona fide human before it is born; it seems we likely agree that it becomes a bona fide human after fertilisation. But surely a decent reason is needed to pinpoint roughly where in that timescale the 'change' in status occurs?

What should be taken into account?

The point at which a foetus develops awareness/consciousness, full sensory ability, pain perception, and ability to survive premature birth, all seem to me to be relevant factors; and as far as I can see the best way to answer those questions is through scientific knowledge and investigation. And I don't think the answer to any of them would be 'at the moment of conception'.

What other factors are relevant, and how can we assess them?

I agree that there are too many factors to take into account. I do believe that abortion is wrong, but once again, at what point? There are too many things to consider here. Let’s face it; this is an issue that will never be decided one way or another. I can see where Angel is coming from; human cells do start to develop from the moment of conception, but are human CELLS a human? Or is a human when it starts to develop a mouth or eyes? When the heart forms and starts beating perhaps? Or from the Christian stand point...when it has a soul? And at what point does it have a soul? What constitutes a presence of a soul? A fully formed brain perhaps? That's a lot of questions isn't it?

Point being, no one here is qualified to answer them all. You can't just know the answers because you're Christian. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked them and just answered them all myself. Similarly, doctors and politicians are not qualified to answer them all either. That being said, I'm pretty sure no one here is qualified either. It's a debate, it will ALWAYS be a debate, and there will NEVER be a correct answer. Personally, I don't think a woman who is raped or a victim of incest should be forced (that's right I said FORCED!!!) to carry a child brought on by that "union" (term used loosely) for 9 months. Hence, adoption is not a viable choice there. I sincerely wish we could make it to where ONLY women with problems like this could get abortions. I am absolutely against abortion as a form of birth control. We pay 4 dollars a month for birth control. In other countries across the globe it's as low as 4 dollars for 6 months. Condoms are free in almost every nation the world over. In New Zealand for instance, you can get 250 all at once for one year! There's no excuse for abortion to be used as a viable form of birth control. Unfortunately it's an all or none situation. We can't make some things legal for some people and illegal for others.

Obama/McCain? They both scare the hell out of me. But Obama more then McCain. I sincerely wanted Ron Paul to get more publicity; I sincerely believe that he was the nation’s ONLY hope. If he's not in office, it's just a continuation of the same downward spiral. Everyone says vote Obama, it's time for a change. Ron Paul was the one who wanted change. Otherwise, we're just voting on another Washington Insider.

Gay Marriage? Does this issue really affect anyone except homosexuals? Why are the rest of us even getting involved? My church's official position? "Why should we care?" We have gay people in our congregation, and we aren't going to be the ones who marry them certainly. If they want to get married however? We'd all come to the wedding. Case and point, the same people who are b****ing about gay marriage are the same ones who are b****ing about U.S. involvement in Iraq "We should be worried about our own people and problems...." Take your own advice.

9/11? When Hitler wanted to anger his people enough to go to war, he blew up a building. Why is anyone surprised at this point that the U.S. has something in common with Nazi Germany? Open your eyes. They already dictate our lives, lead us around on a leash, tell us who to hate and why, tell us what we can watch, read, and listen too, how we should raise our children, and develop laws that remove God from our schools and work places. The United States IS the new Nazi Germany. Anyone else here realize the Bush family is tied up in the oil trade? I'm sure it's a coincidence that both Sr. and Jr. were involved with Iraq and Kuwait. Kuwait has a lot of oil reserve doesn't it? hhhmmmmm, nope, sure that's just a coincidence. It's probably also just a coincidence that bush stock in oil tripled in the last four years. He's not upset about going out of office even after his approval ratings have gone down the toilet. People hate him and he doesn't care, why should he? He's rich when he comes out.

My advice? Follow my lead and move to New Zealand. Nobody cares about this place; there are no natural resources for people to be concerned with. Products are comparatively well priced, people are thriving and happy, and most importantly, nobody hates me because I'm an American.

Yeah MID, but to go further with the oil thing, you and I both were going off the idea that we begin drilling for oil and using what new oil we find to stabalize the energy problem and the economy, but in fact we could do it over night considering the fact that while drilling for new oil and building refineries we could go ahead and begin using are oil reserve which has enough to last us 70 YEARS! We could bring the price of gas down to nothing right now, mean while drill for new oil in the process so once we get the new oil coming in we could switch from our reserve back to that.