This thread sprang up after a discussion within another thread about why Christianity and Evolution appear to be at war with each other.

From the Wikipedia Article:

The Discovery Institute is widely recognised as the hub of the Intelligent Design movement, and is the majority funder of other similar institutes, such as The Center for Science and Culture who are responsible for the funding of Intelligent Design material, such as the book "From Darwin to Hitler".

In short, there is an organised war against Evolution. These are the people responsible for starting it. The Wedge Strategy is their manifesto.

Discuss.

Wedgies hurt

Hhhhhmmmm ... I wonder if possibly the boot could be on the other foot? Consider the "loading" of academia positions with humanists? etc?

Just a thought you may consider to research, Tiggs?
Karlis

Actually, the Wedge Strategy is a RESPONSE to the well-funded, and focused attempt to remove any mention of God or non-materialistic ideas from culture, an attempt that can be clearly seen in the communist manifesto, and the works of Darwinians ging back to the beginning of the 20th Century and probably before.

Who is funding this attempt to remove any mention of God from culture,What has Darwin to do with removing god from culture???


fullywired

The "educators" in the United Nations (UN) for one?
Karlis

That which was invented to account for the unexplained, is now being proffered as the alternative to the explained.

That doesn't tell me much



fullywired

It doesn't have to be funded to be effective. We(the usa) are in the process of removing God or the mention of God from the public eye.

No your not .The creationists under their new name "Intelligent design" are heavily funded by religious bodies who are most anxious not to let anybody kill the "golden Goose" will see to it that it doesn't happen


fullywired

Are you of the opinion that a (supposedly) secular State should govern with a nod to a particular religious belief?

This does not mean that there isn't a movement to remove God.

No. But freedom of speech should include people, institutions, Church's, governments. We can no longer pray in school but the house and the senate start each day with prayer.

And they should not. I agree, those who hold authority in the State are hypocrits.

Of course they should. Just as every school day should be started with prayer.

To which God ????

fullywired

*sniff*

Something smells rancid...must be your bait.

They most definitely shouldn't. Unless they pray a prayer that represents all religions present in America they shouldn't be out there praying as a group. Now, I don't think that each member/student in school should be restricted from praying, but officially sponsored prayer should not happen.

seems similar to the middle east conflicts, "who started it 1st" and whatever.

this is another little "battle" in the same conflict that's been going on for ages, it's not the 1st shot, it's a response to a response to a response to a response.... don't want neither camps getting what they want.


Secular Humanist Manifestos... well a couple of em
http://www.jcn.com/manifestos.html 1933, 1973...

the Wedgie thing, wasn't untill '98

The Father in Heaven.

Just take a look at our money.

"In God We Trust"

That's who the schools, as well as everybody else, should be praying to every morning.

If the atheists have a problem with God, then they should stop handling our money. If not it's just being hypocritical.

I thought all the Gods resided there


fullywired

Much as you would like to believe it, this not a Christian nation. Mentions of "God" do not make something Christian. God is a general term referring to a higher power that many people use. It is not specific to any one god.

A nation won't be what it needs to be without prayer.

Hello there, everyone.


Of course. The war is, technically, against Science. Here's a list of the Sciences YEC flatly contradicts:


Evolution is NOT Atheism.
Communism is NOT EVIL. KARL MARX WAS NOT EVIL. People are evil.


The EVIL Scientists, The UN, the Commies, the Democrats, the Godless Atheists, the Liberals, and pretty much the entire world besides the good ole USA!


Religion does not belong in schools.
Religion is not mandatory.

Besides that, WE ARE NOT.



OK.
Attention:
FROM NOW ON, EVERY SCHOOL IN AMERICA STARTS WITH MUSLIM PRAYERS.


SCRATCH THAT:
IT APPEARS WWF WOULD PERFER THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER.


The Slogan was put there in the 60's to "unite the country against the evil commies!"



All the more reason to pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

WWF- Would you like to help me set up a petition to get prayers to the FSM in schools across the nation?

Cheers,
SQLserver

Oops forgot My list:
*- The starred aren't exactly sciences, but they DO conflict with A Fundamentalist View of the bible.

1. Modern Ethics*
2. Common Sense*
3. Biology
4. Botany
5. Meteorology
6. Geology
7. Nuclear Physics
8. Chemistry
9. Cosmology
10. Astronomy
11. Paleontology
12. Anthropology
13. Archeology
14. Physics
15. The Bible(as it contradicts itself several times over)*
16. Medical Science
17. Bacteriology
18. Psychology
19. MicroBiology
20. Virology
21. acology
22. aerolithology
23. aerology
24. agriology
25. anatomy
26. anthropobiology
27. astrogeology
28. astrophysics
29. autecology
30. cetology
31. climatology
32. cometology
33. cytology
34. dendrochronology
35. Egyptology
36. ekistics
37. epidemiology
38. ethnogeny
39. genetics
40. geochemistry
41. geochronology
42. geogony
43. geomorphogeny
44. glaciology
45. heliology
46. historiology
47. meteoritics
48. micropalaeontology
49. mineralogy
50. neurology
51. neurobiology
52. nosology
53. orology
54. palaeoclimatology
55. psychognosy
56. Sinology

And, according to the YECs, that is just 'Atheism' in disguise.

Here's a bit of trivia about your money, perhaps some things you were not aware of:


i) The orginal US currency did not bear any religious symbols until intense lobbying by religious groups/persons after the civil war.
ii) "IN GOD WE TRUST" first appeared in 1864 on the 2 cent coin only.
iii) "IN GOD WE TRUST" was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate.

source: http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets...d-we-trust.html

I think you have a pretty weak argument there, it was only after pressuring the government that "IN GOD WE TRUST" became an official motto.

If you visit the link I posted, you will also see that one of the reasons you went with the motto was so that you would not be remembered as a "Heathen Nation".

I expect you'll find that the number of Biologist's with PhD's that believe in Creationism is roughly similar to the number of Geologist's with PhD's that believe that the Earth is flat, hence the "loading" in Academia you refer to.

Just a thought you may wish to consider researching, Karlis.

It was added because it was determined to be important.

Well apparently it didn't seem too important when your money was originally designed, only after the government was pressured.

I think you mis-read my meaning, Tiggs.

You know how to do in-depth research in obscure fields -- so, I thought you may be interested in looking at the opposite point of view also.

Regards,
Karlis

It should be up to the students and parents not the state or the school board.

Pressured?

Apparently you don't understand how government works.

If you hadn't noticed, schools got much worse with violence and such when prayer was taken out.

I think the thorn if you will is religion has enjoyed the spot light( through strong arming and imposition) for so long and now that many are questioning this system its coming up short ..

why would g?d be threatended by extinction ..??? omni says he should of seen this coming...IMO

schools have been worse since the 60's because of the institutions themselves the lack of growth and ignorance on the understanding and meeting of the needs of a developing child .....

yet this has been addressed and is changing thanks to the charters....

the brick and mortar schools impose limits on learning and that is the issue not prayer ....

The problem with embedded religion is the indoctrination that goes along with it. The culture (of the US and other Western countries) was indoctrinated to believe that our ethics and morals derived from religious belief, and it is taking a long time for the general population to 'unlearn' this fallacy.

As the social sciences teach us more about who we are outside of religion then we will become, as a culture, more socially aware than when fettered in the restricting confines of religious belief.

I concur with this leo,
the great issue is in these sorts of systems it prevents growth to maintain ignorance( the not knowing any 'other ' kind) and many in the US aren't accustomed to thinking for themsleves they are accustomed to being told what to think.....not to mention the division it causes the limits it places on us as a social entity.....

yet eventually change ensues as this is what is natural (as is what evolution is really trying to say Imo) ...change is part and parcel of life.......i also think our relgions have created a huge fear around change based in misunderstanding and limiting either or constructs....

we have so many here that fall apart at the slightest change few embrace it for the gift it is.............
its become an addiction IMO few see that the addiction is the problem not the solution.......the best we can do as a cutlure is teach our youth to think for itself and in this one has to be encouraged to question authority and question values as its in this that we will move out of ignorance and rather quickly, .
the thinking apparatus is a tool and only as good as the one using it.....we used fear and threats and punishment as a means of mass control or I call it the lazy mans way to guiding and now we have quite a mess to clean up....


I apprecaite your analysis quite frankly because you are on the outside looking in.. it can only help us cuturally....

Yes it can.


Amen to that!

Especailly here in Calif. huh Kaizen.....maybe not so much for you but LAUSD is horrible its almost like a battle field for a kid and an exaggeration of life.. these kids get out drained and hating authority...

it has little to do with prayer....IMO

LAUSD is not that good as well (I go to a private school actually)...Education systems need a huge overhaul. People aren't learning in school anymore, they're just daycare centers for people who don't want to think. As my friend puts it "I love to learn, that's why I hate school."

Source/evidence?

so many are opting out .... as a matter of fact i have heard from a few clinets that many are getting letters encouraging home schooling' /charters as an alternative to closing public schools.... and many familys are being asked to 'donate' money to keep the doors open.....

I havn't seen the letters myself but I am curious....


indeed if you love to learn brick and mortar can't accomodate you unless you are IEP it does help get these kids equipped with basic tools............the insittuition isn't designed to inspire a love of learning or thinking for oneself in general. ....

This is true...Its saddening. And what's worse is that those who do teach themselves and do think for themselves are generally persecuted with disciplinary action. Asking questions against the authority or even the validity of whats being taught is a big no no. Lol.

I think we are all fairly knowledgeable on how government works, politions bend like trees on a windy day.

They respond equally well to constituents or "special interest groups", depending on who "motivates" them the most.

What we have shown here is a clear and deliberate effort by individuals/groups to introduce religious symbols into your monetary system prior to the 20th century, therefore it should be no surprise that others developed the wedge strategy to try and do the same thing to your education system.

I agree but we have left it up to the school boards and lawyers about prayer.

We have been removing these so called indoctrination from the schools since the 60's. How many kids are using drugs, how are the test scores. I take it back we are not removing indoctrination from school. We are replacing church with government.

The biggest problem we have is that we have are doing away with self responsibility. It isn't your fault that you curse it is your mom's and dad's, it isn't your fault that your a bully it is Gods.

Without backing up claims like this with anything this seems like a ridiculous statement.


Interresting article tiggs, even though it seems obvious that the intelligent design movement has a great dislike for what people in their fields would call scientific facts I am a little surpriced they actually see themselves as people in _war_ against science.
I wonder if taking a step back, taking a deep breath, and actually realising that science doesn't care what conclusions they make as long its backed up by evidence they might realise that science is doing nothing but looking for answers not yet found. And are not the enemy of anyone, they just wan't us to expand on all the wonderfull knowledge we already posses.

One more time what facts.

Everytime I ask this question about facts against intellegent design. I get the same answer science hasn't been able to prove intellegent design so it must not be.


Ok so we know what chemicals make life. We know what the supposed conditions were when life started out of nothing. So how come we can't simulate the right conditions and throw the right chemicals into it and make life.