OK. I have heard of tribes that refuss to have their pictures taken because they think it will capture they're souls BUT CHRISTAINS?!?!?. Here where i work we just had a co-worker have a bad accident. to cheer him up a bit durign his recovery I thought it would be a good idea to come in and take "goofy get well" pictures of everyone and then send them to him on a disc. When I got around to an employee we will call Kim she stated there would be NO picture taken of her...thinking she was just being bashful I lifted the camera to get a quick snap of her and when i did she jumped up and grabbed the camera from me VERY UPSET (displaying that famous attitude christain are so popular for) and told me in no uncertain terms that if I took a picture of her she was going to break the camera and report me to our manager?!?! and then demanded to look through the picture I had already taken. Well i asked her for he camera back called her crazy and refussed to let her look through the other picture and explained to her that she had grabbed the camer BEFORE I had snapped the picture. I asked her before leaving the office area what her deal was with taking pictures and she simply said READ YOUR BIBLE !!! Now bening raised in the south (bible belt of the USA) I explianed to her that I had read the bible 3 times through and in fact have had the christain religon shoven at me since birth...through out countless churchs and even a private christain school (OMG dont get me started on that place!!). Other than speaking of Vanity here and there I don't rememeber reading ANTHING about taking pictures and it being a sin?!??!! did i miss that part ? I didnt relaize they had that techknowledgy back then??!?!? Can someone clear this uop for me please? why is my co-worker crazy?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

It's called Having Respect.

If the woman wanted her immage memorialised, I'm sure she would havev asked you to take her picture. It has nothing to do with any religion, It has to do with respect.

Love Omnaka

NO.... the lack of respect was her implying that she was the great almighy knowledge on the word of GID and when i asked to her to explain her beliefs with scripture she couldnt back it up !! as is with most christains that live in this part of the country. The have been told things like the BIBLE says it a sin to marry someone of a different race...or its a sin to divorce...or its a sin for a woman to wear pants and the miss interpitations go on and on and on. If you going to act like a loon infront of a whole group of people and then claim in is becuase of your STRONG christain beliefs "implying" that you are more rightous than everyone else that had just had their picture taken THEN BACK IT UP WITH FACT !!!! that's is what i am asking for her...fact....words.. where in the bible does it say this !!!

maybe she's in the witness protection program!

Maybe she doesn't want 'men' to have a picture of her because that would be sinful and cheap? or maybe she was on 'that' period of the month and you happened to piss her off, badly.

What's christain?

Easy, there, turbo.

Maybe she was just embarassed to have her picture taken and couldn't think of anything else to say. I would get mad if I had told someone not to take my picture and they tried anyway. I wouldn't spout off anything about the bible, but I might have a few choice words for them. Maybe she was just trying to keep from swearing at you, so she mentioned the bible.

Actually, there are some religious sects that don't like their photos taken... SOME Anabaptist don't, some baptists don't, and a few other small groups. I know Quakers who don't like their photograph taken for some of the same reasons Anabaptists don't too.

The camera capturing a soul is an old Victorian era (I believe) superstition, it has nothing to do with the Bible. I know a lot of Mennonites that will not alow themselves to be photographed. But the reason does come from the Bible, sort of. It has to do with vanity and the promotion of vanity. Not soul stealing. There are what's called "plain" faiths, Friends, Amish, Mennonites are the most well known of them but there are others within Pentacostal groups and Baptist groups as well. The plain faiths do have a tendency to avoid cameras, but it's generally not a HUGE issue if someone does take their picture. When she said no initially, you probably should have said thanks and walked away.

She probably took it a little too far as well, she should have been nicer about it and just calmly expained that in the practice of her faith, she avoids cameras and would appreciate it if you didn't take pictures.

A battle about religion at work is ALWAYS a bad idea. You both should have kept it low-key and polite.

That was really rude of you. If the woman doesn't want here picture taken you should respect it. I know in Pagan circles we are careful about taking pictures at gatherings. Some people aren't out of the broom closet and don't want their picture taken at rituals. The woman shouldn't have to explain her religion to you unless she wants too. If I was your boss you would be reprimanded.

That is the most awesomest term ever!

So, help me out. What part of "no picture taken of her" didn't you understand?


Dissatisfied with her explanation? You weren't entitled to any explanation.

Maybe she does have a religious objection to image making. However, she may not have meant that you would find something about her choice in the Bible. Maybe she thought you needed some moral instruction.

Yes, I know, you wouldn't look to the Bible for moral instruction. Take her remark as a figure of speech.

If you have an ounce of sense, then you will apologize to her.

I have to agree with 8-bits as well.

You really were not entitled to an explanation. She said no pictures, that means you get to ask her if she'd like to sign the card instead.

It's a place of business, you have to be sensitive to all kinds of people and their wishes. If they say no to pictures, you must respect that, you don't even get to ask why, you just get to say thank you and walk away.

You do owe her an apology. If she goes to her manager, you could be in a wee-bit of hot water. No matter how playful you were being, you were the aggressor/instigator like it or not.

You forced her to defend herself... SHE would have left the Bible and religion out of it if you'd just STOPPED when she asked you to. This isn't a religious issue, it's a basic manners issue.

I agree that you should have just walked away from this lady, no matter what her reasons were. When my daughter worked in day care, there were four children that she was not allowed to take pictures of. I can't remember what religion they were (not Christian), but the parents were emphatic about their request. And so the children would stand to the side when party and remembrance pictures were taken.

They may have been from one of the Islamic sects which have rules about "image-making" too. There are also some Hindu sects that don't like it as well.

She should have explained why she didn't want her photo taken.It comes from the bible about not making any graven images(statues,paintings,etc.)
of things on the earth,the sea or air.Yet the Ark of the Covenant has two angels on it(of the air),and somewhere in thebible it also mentions either Moses or Abraham being instructed to make an image of a sperpent and to use it for healing,go figure.
Your mistake was not asking why she didn't want her photo taken ,before you took her photo.That's why she grabed the camera which was wrong.

by everquesterinman:

This gets me. Growing up in a country where you believe what you want, the idea that everyone is going to own and have read the bible is wrong. I never owned and read fully the bible, and someone actually said this to me. I was working in retail, so I couldn't call back and say, "This is America! Don't own one, never had one, never read one, and don't have to!"

I cannot even believe some people would think that everyone would have a bible. What about the Jewish? "READ YOUR TORAH!!!"

How about some other religions, "READ YOUR TREE!!"
I don't get it.

By Darkwind:

I agree with this. As I am always against being preached upon to those who don't want it, someone should not be tricked in having their picture taken. And I have a fascination with photography and scrapbooking. I think it's because with me, I think it can also be a personal thing too.

by goalienan:
I can understand this, as in the parent's point of view. I think this is also a safety thing for children. Who knows where the photos of their children going to end up publically, and who would be looking at them getting ideas?

She said that because she was left little choice. It was obviously very important to her that her photograph not be taken, he ignored her request and attempted to take it anyway. She's going to lash out. Yes, it's wrong that she lashed out, but based on the OP's apparent distain for anything Christian which I'm sure is clear to everyone around him as well, I'm sure she felt cornered. People get aggressive when they feel cornered.




No, it's not just a safety thing... for some people, it really is a religious thing. Something that should be respected when someone tells you not to take their picture. We might not agree with their reasons, but they have those rules for reasons that make sense to them.

The Amish consider "image-making" a sin. Plain and simple. People are forever sneaking pictures of them though. They don't get too wound up about it however. What they will NEVER do is pose for a photograph, not ever. That really would be a sin in their eyes. There are Pentacostals and certain Fundamentalists that share this belief. Some more than others.

The OP offended his co-worker, and did so after he was asked to stop... the majority of the blame for the altercation lies with him. She could have been more tactful as well, but she may have been VERY irritated for not having her wishes respected in a place of business no less... and became a little more angry than she should have.

It can certainly capture your emotions, especially if your onnw who weras your heart on your sleeve....

I remember there was a African tribe or similar somwhere.... that beleived that it was possible to steal the soul by this....Although they were some what moved into modernism and knew what a camers was..some things they couldnt understand or grasp.....

Why musst someone have to back up their belief if They don't want their picture taken?

Maybe you should have Just respected that womans Dislike of having her picture taken, and left it at that instead of getting in her face , demanding an answer to why she does not want what she does not want, in essence , Just to satisfy your want.

Love Omnaka

Maybe I should bea bit more claer here. this person Kim is always been one to kid around and such and I thought she was kidding or being embarrsed when she stated the "not taking her picture" I did tell her I was sorry if i offedned her BUT I did also say she was crazy...which i still believe. Because even after all the judgemental comments i have gotten over how i treated HER in this matter I still dont have an answer from all you intelligent folks about how this "not taking pictures of ones self" has ANYHTING to do with the CHRISTIAN BELIEF. and further more the FACT that she got so mad AND condisending (of everyone else in the room that had just taken their picture) and THEN not being about to back it up with any kind of scripture on her part WAS MORE RUDE THAN I COULDNT HAVE EVER THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN !

Face it, your grounded! I bet HR will be on your butt tomorrow! Tell her it's for your "Alter of hot chix I work with" and you plan on sacrificing a chicken to her picture later on, and watch her head spin! Then you can say, "It's my religion to worship all hot chix, quit discriminating all up in my shiz-nit!"

The problem, egg, is that the OP will read that, and think it's a plan.

Lord, I hope not.
Bottom line is, some semi-fundamental preacher probably has a "record" and doesn't want his pic taken for fear he'll be recognized and exposed.

I think you meant well by your gesture and what a thoughtful thing to want to do to cheer up a co worker....its a really great idea ...

perhaps if you explained to her why you wanted to do this so she knew your intents and what you were gonna do with the photo and it is common courtesy on her part to share as to why she felt uncomfortable IMO....... i have not heard of such paranoia ......if she had the ability to look at the photos you had already taken certainly you could of kept snapping until she liked the photo. or came up with a way to phoograph her that preserves her privacy....



under the circumstances i think there iwas no reason for her to be so hostile a simple explanation could of sufficed instead of strong arming and threatening you.....oy vey............. and perhaps you and your supervisor could sit down and find a way to mend fences. so resentments don't abound......

there is a thing called team participation and comaraderie when we take a job we have to consider the whole group also......

i do not attend our company xmas parties for alot of reasons and i feel it is my responsibility and just common decency to explain why and be sure that no one takes it personal or is offended but I am seeking to get along with my co workers.....

^^^ wrong.

Sorry, when a co-worker or anyone says "no" they mean ... no.

He just got done stating that she'd always been fun to work with and it sounds like he was playing along. I mean, I GET why he was confused, but the moment she said "You will not be taking my picture" (I'm sure she wasnt' giggling) was the moment he should have backed off, or at least asked politely for clarification.

Unfortunately he made the wrong decision, and I think it's easy to understand why he did. However, when she got angry was the very second he should have apologized and left the room. Now, the two of them are going to have a very very difficult time working together. That's too bad.

You don't get to call people at work Crazy either. You just don't. Not if you're professional.

She owed him NO explanation. None.

Another thing to consider is that photographs at work can be dangerous anyway... we don't take photos at my work typically speaking. The photographer could accidentally capture work on someone's monitor or white board and inadvertantly give away trade secrets or intellectual property secrets.

Havent read the other replies but perhaps she was just saying "read your bible and learn how to treat people with respect.'"

You had no moral, and most likely no legal, authority to take her picture, once she had refused consent, and what ÿou did/or attempted to do, next, was rather rude.

I dont have pictures of me taken at work anymore, and when they wanted one to put up on the board for parents to look at when they come to the front office i said "fine Ill give you one from my 21st birthday (im now 57)"Some people just dont like having their picture taken, and others may have good reason not to want their picture taken.
No one is allowed to take, or publish, photos of children at any govt school in australia, without the written consent of their parents, for example. Again, there are many good reasons for this rule.

On a lighter note, it reminded me of the scene in crocodile dundee where sue is tring to take a photo of an aboriginal person in full ceremonial regalia. He says, "Miss you cant take my picture."
She says, "sorry, is it against your beliefs?'' and he replies, "na miss, you've still got your lens cap on."

Well, I can't help, I don't have the Christian background to know the answer. As for your treatment of her not taking her picture, I think that is wrong. She has that right to not have her picture taken. REason or not, she has that right. Hell, like I said, I love pictures, cameras, and scrapbooking, and I wouldn't make her or treat her bad for it. Even if anyone might regret it in the end. My point of my friend's mother in law, who hated having her picture taken, and when she passed away, there were not many pictures to make an album for my friend to make for her mother in law's parents. I think one must think of the feelings of the person, religion or not. As a scrapbooker, you could always have the lady in question, asking her politely please, write and draw something. I do this in my scrapbooks, when I do not have pictures, but still want to remember the event that is part of the theme of the scrapbook.
I have not heard about Christians fearing that picture taken grabs your soul, but certain tribal cultures, I have heard have that fear.

I understand that, but telling him to read his bible. It's the assumption that he has one and read one. Yeah, he has and he did, but the point is, not everyone does. I was told to read my bible, and I don't have one and never read one. I wonder, if I was able to say what I wanted to say to the lady who harassed me, that I don't have one and never read one, and I don't have to, what would she have done? I understand the behavior of Kim here, but the assumption of everyone having a bible so someone can say you should read it? I'm just saying, wrong assumption.

Crocodile Dundee - You can't take my photograph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGm3L7TF1Bk

"I love this Scene".....

Ugly people hates their pictures taken.

I am ugly and I hate someone taking my picture.

Probably she's the same

Yes i didnt get the dialogue verbatim, but the basic concepts there. Also love the bit where he walks into a tree after dundee just finished saying how he couls sense his way in the dark. lol. Show this film every year to kids for australian studies so we can compare how the film stereotypes both australian and american culture.

Its the little things that we notice that have a respective effect.
The best bit was when he looks into the sun to tell the time, right after he snuck a look at the time on his watch. lol

In regards to stereotypes and culture, times have really changed.

As I see It or grew to learn of our stereotypes - Theres a gun fight/driveby, serial killer on every corner you walk on and theres kangaroos just jumping down the street, pie eating beer drinking etc. lol

The point being that she had at that point been backed into a corner. When people are cornered, they say things they would not normally say.

Sounds to me like she'd never said anything like that before...

I agree on that SOMEWHAT but now she and other slike her down in the the south have stated so called FACTS they believe and will swear are TRUE and from the BIBLE and then when you ask them to produce Prove from their SAME bible they can support it or show it to you...they say somehting like well...thats what my mother told me and i believe it. after making the statment ALOUD i might add for everyone in the room to hear she should have been ready to produce some FACTS and all she could say to any of us that asked was read your bible?!??! isnt it the JOB of a christian to teach and mentor others with less knowledge?? eldars I think they called them??

So? If you don't like what they have to say, and you pretty much seem to know what they're going to say, then why do you engage them? Why do you ask for proof of you KNOW you're not going to get a satisfactory answer??

When someone throws those so-called facts at you... surprise 'em, leave them hanging. Nod and say "Wow, you think about things so differently than I do" and walk away.

Or when they say "Don't you read your Bible?" you can plaster a dumb smile on your face and say "Enough..." and walk away. Then they don't know if you're telling them 'Enough is enough' or if you read the Bible enough. Don't open yourself up to the conversation.

People say stupid stuff all the time, at work, in public, where ever, it's how you react to the comment that makes all the difference. No, they don't have provide proof. That's silly. ESPECIALLY at work.

And no, it's not really the job of a Christian to teach anyone anything... some may think it's their job, but others, not so much.

Probably. Still doesn't make sense to me, but that's me.

I think these are pretty good questions and anwers here, that is the same how I see it.

If it was me, I would still answer, 'I don't own one, never have, never willl, and never read it, because my parents practiced the freedom so afforded to them in this country. I know, I'm beating a dead horse, but I wonder what the answer would be. I mean, someone cannot tell you, you have to have a bible and read it in a country that says you have the right to believe in what you want, and the bible is not law and part of a certain belief, right?

Exactly!!! My points and thoughts as well.

mw, I am seeking to look at this perhps bring in something to consider also, one that an emotional reaction is a choice often its a strategy to deal with the circumstances.. even though most think that emotional reactions are something that just happen or come from somewhere ellse therefore one is not responsible for their chosen behaviors, i dont share this posit..........

based on the op . this lady willfully and knowingly made a choice and chose aggression and hostility as her frame, it seems she 'assumed' he meant her harm her a reaction speaks of this IMO.. he says that he was seeking to cheer up a co worker and had prior exeperince of her as a fun person...it does seem he is shook up by her reaction...IMO

we don't know her reasons and i am sure she had them, and she felt that not only did she not have to share them she could strong arm him also ......


.IMO there is not really a justification to treat others in this manner, its not what I'd call mature if I was him I would seek to understand this a bit more ....its does seem that this lady chose aggression and violence as a way to solve conflict of the many avenues available to her ..... this is never an asset in a work enviornment.........

maturity means you find a way to get along even when you disagree and you will ....... now they could have resolved this also and I hope so.....


when I worked at the psot office i saw lots of sitations similar to this.... one employee feels justified in treating another in an agrgressive manner they were always reported to the union and wrote up.....the reason was immaterial it is behavior they do not encourage for any reason just a thought.....


.

you guys you should be listening more what other people saying to you.....if she dosent want to take a pic of her simply listen. it not a case of her been a crazy chrisitan, its her choice whether to allow you to take a snap. I dont like others taking pics of me and i must not apologise about my choices.

Right, AFTER he had already strong armed her first and backed into a corner. That's evident from the OP.

You should know people lash out when they are backed into a corner... you do it all the time, pretty much every one does.

i have been around folks that lash out as a means of communication, but we encourage them to use their words to say how they feel.......... .... solving conflict or opting out of something. can so easliy be handled with communication....



we are responsible for our reactions including our emotonal ones they are often strategys to get what we want or cope with things that we have no plan for dealing with...IMO ....., I am not one to encourage absolving one of their responsibiblyts as a human...i can understand that many do this but i don't know why she never said...she had some reason but really its immaterial IMo anger is always for a reason and a choice...........anger can be used to restore peace......... .....things are gonna happen, conflict will arise and its a good idea to have a way to sovle it that is peaceful and a win win for all involved.....as a non violent person myself its on me to live up to this if I have outbursts then its on me to learn from them and change them regardless of my reasons ....... life isn't just about me and no one forces me to be anyway by what they do or don't do....i choose how i am gonna be ...

pretty much MMW

very well said...but sadly I am not the walk away type...and it is VERY hard to have what MOST folks down here would view as STRANGE beliefs and or thoughts about religon down here where i live (east Tennessee). But I will try

This has become a discourse on manners.

http://www.unitedfeatures.com/ufsapp/viewFeature.do?id=21

It would be considered good manners to ASK before photographing someone, in particular in a work-place setting.

Period.
End of story.

Now, the woman in question did not display proper manners EITHER. And using her religion, Christianity in particular, was just absurd by most peoples standards.

Now get over it.

BUT as stated before if she was going to make sure she annonced to the whole room that had just taken all their pictures that WE ALL HAD SINNED ! then she needed to at least explain why...you see what i mean?

So I suppose all these religious people don't have television or watch movies or any other kind of image taking machine because they will be seeing the other persons soul??? Well, I suppose thats why they go in buggies and light their house with karecine lamps. It takes all kinds.