Here is one of them


Genesis 18:1-8


And the LORD appeared to him by the(A) oaks[a] of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. 2He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him.( When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth 3and said, "O Lord,[b] if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant. 4Let a© little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree, 5while I bring a morsel of bread, that(D) you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on—(E) since you have come to your servant." So they said, "Do as you have said." 6And Abraham went quickly into the tent to Sarah and said, "Quick! Three seahs[c] of fine flour! Knead it, and make cakes." 7And Abraham ran to the herd and took a calf, tender and good, and gave it to a young man, who prepared it quickly. 8Then he took curds and milk and the calf that he had prepared, and set it before them. And he stood by them under the tree while they ate.


Is god sitting in a tent, having his feet washed & eating ?


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_...&version=47

only if he is physical

God masquerading as three men?

Strange indeed.

Could it mean lord in the sense of a king or ruler?

I was thinking that too but it starts out with "And the LORD appeared to him" which makes me think it is referring to 'The Lord' as in god. Also the usage of "appeared to him" makes me think of something more divine.

Down to individual interpretation again.

Yes .

Why do you find this strange ?

God appeared in physical form a number of times in the old testament. Some believe this was an earlier manifestation of jesus, others believe it was simply god exercising his ability to appear in what ever shape/form he choses.

Sometimes he went unrecognised. Sometimes the human was not sure if it was the lord, or a messenger of the lord. In this case (and remember abraham had a close association with god,) abraham knew instantly just who/what had manifested before him.

I repeat, what is it about your belief about the nature of god, that makes this passage sound strange to you?

It sounds like just the sort of thing the god i know would do.

Jesus was god. Get the feet washing connection?
Note also the interesting allusions to sacrifice and the fact that god apparently appears as 3 people (though im not really familiar with this text)

It could be that only one of the 3 was god and the others were angels, but as it reads, it is contains an interesting connection to the trinitarian concept that god can be 3 in one, or one in 3.

And this is in the first book of the bible.


Im sorry this may have come across as a bit rude. I just have trouble comprehending what it is about this passage which you find strange, or unusual. What do you think god really is/is like?

Perhaps but if I remember the Bible correctly(which honestly I probably don't) when LORD is capitalized liked that it is usually in reference to God or Jesus and not a ruler or king. The usage of the words 'appeared' and 'behold' make me believe this is not a normal happening. Although the whole passage does make a bit more sense if it were three rulers or kings.

Reading further into the chapter I found this:

Genesis 9-14
And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent,
And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life: and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah herd it in the tent door, which was behind him.
Now Abraham and Sarah were old and stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
Therefore Sarah Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being so old?
And the Lord said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
And the men rose up from thence, and looked towards Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.

I think it is clear that these three men are not normal humans, angels perhaps?

thats what the indexing on bottom of my page in the bible says.

reffering to verse 3

hmm my bible doesn't have any indexings but I think the passages I posted pretty much confirm that this was God in some form.

I don't see what's so strange about that. That's something my God would do. Come down, wash each others feet (ceremonial cleaning), have a meal, and then bestow on them a miracle - reiterating the promise God made in chapter 17 that Sarah would have a son. The promise is made virtually identical to the promise in chapter 17, except for one small difference - this time Sarah also heard the promise, and I think this was the entire reason for it being here. In Chapter 17, God is telling Abraham that he will have a son, despite his age (and despite his lack of Faith in the earlier promise of an heir through Sarah). Chapter 18, virtually identical, except it is said for Sarah's benefit, who questions - naturally, she is too old and barren, but nonetheless, the miracle occurred.

May sound strange to some, but it sounds like a perfectly natural act for my god to do.

For the record, for those discussing/disputing the wording of the term "Lord", that it may refer to simply a King or Ruler, the Hebrew word is yehôvâh (Yahweh, Jehovah, whatever pronounciation you choose - it's referring to God).

Why doesn't God appear to us today ??

And why hasn't He in the last few thousand years ??

Angels can't eat no bodies. Unless this is God and two of his brothers.

I know you asked that to Mr W, but if you don't mind, I'll try. Taking note of my previous post about reiterating the miracle of Isaac's birth, no such conditions exist today. The promises made to Abraham and the Hebrews in the Old Testament were fulfilled through Jesus. There is no longer a theological need for God to do this (come down and speak to us). However, i will put a caveat on this and say taht this does not therefore mean that God won't come down and do this to someone. It's just that you might not notice. Not everyone in the Bible noticed they were speaking to God or angels. Who knows, the bloke I was chatting with while watching the footy last night might have been God - haven't seen him since..... my team won a really tight context, so it could even be seen as a miracle, lol

im going to have a stab at this passage. the first thing that should be said is that the bible isnt first hand accounts of events or eyewitness testimony.

this passage starts with a man sitting at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. hes on the fence. hes at the doorway of shelter on a hot day and outside of his tent are oak trees. which are also a very good form of shelter. natural shelter. probably better than the tent. yet hes baking when there are two convenient options right infront of him. also remember tents are man made.

the lord appears to him as three people. probably a referrence to the holy trinity. the mind body and spirit aspects of humanity. he bowed himself to the earth. a reference to spirituality. the natural references in this passage hold significance to spirituality, the man made (tent) reffer to the physical. the man finds god and pleads for him to not pass by. the man is quick to reel off all the things he will offer god in order for him to stay. and he is very quick to retrieve them.

the key part of this passage to me is where god says 'do as you have said'. the man quickly offers all the things to god that man needs in order to find god or get under shelter from the heat. man wouldnt hesitate for one second to give god complete respect or faultless hospitality. when the truth is all man needs to do is give this nourishment to himself. get out of the sun and into the shade of a tree. although the tent is closer the tree is alot stronger. there is also a reason the man was sitting at the door of the tent in the first place. he was searching.

you can dig further into it but this is the general idea.

angels can have bodies if they want. can eat and all that stuff, if they want. think it's mostly to put regular ppl at ease.

The term "angel" simply means "Messenger" - one who brings a message to another. There need not be anything spiritual or sacred about the term. Though in the sense of the angels of the Lord of Hosts in the Bible, there certainly appears to be aspects of disembodied-ness (is that a word, lol). Though with few exceptions, most appear in physical form.

I'd like a shot at this one too.

I think you mean, "Why doesn't God appear to each of us in physical form or to enough people at once with lots of fanfare so we know it happened?"

The thing is that you have people like Mr. Walker who has had interaction with a physical representation of God, so it would appear God does still appear to us... at least some of us. Additionally, like PA points out, how do we know we haven't been in God's presence and just didn't know it.

So are you asking why is there no fanfare and huge signs saying "God is right here!" or even the loud thunderous voice of God speaking so we all hear Him? Well, even in the Old Testament God showed Elijah that He was in the faint whisper.

Would it make a difference to you if God showed up in physical form? Why?

Malakh Adonai
The Angel of the LORD.
This mysterious Angel was treated as YHVH Himself, exercising divine prerogatives and receiving worship

The Aramaic Targum of Onkelos (Genesis 16:13) identifies the Angel of the Lord with the Shekhinah, the concrete manifestation of the presence of God.

so they were thought of as God's self.

I looked at the Hebrew of the text and apparently it does not refer to the three men as "The Lord". It says in verse 1 that the Lord visited him, but that isn't really connected with the coming of the three men. Also, when they first appear, even if they are God in man-form, Abraham does not realize that they are God because he does not address them as God. Once they give the prophesy, he still does not address the men as the Lord (in hebrew) but address God (It doesn't indicate how God is speaking to him). Rashi's commentary on it says that the three men are angels. However, based on how they are addressed and mentioned in Hebrew, they are not God in man-form.


*examines some more*

Yeah see....When Sarah laughs, God speaks to Abraham (it doesn't indicate how he speaks to him). Sarah hears it and re-iterates and said "I didnt' laugh" because she was afraid. So maybe she heard God speak to Abraham. However when it goes back to mentioning the men in verse 22, it still does not refer to them as God. So they are most likely angels.



Who says he doesn't appear? Think about it this way, if I went camping out somewhere, and told you that God sent an angel to speak to me, would you believe me? I believe that God is just as active now as he was then. We don't notice/realize it now because we are unwilling to.

If I may speak of behalf of Mr. Walker as he and I is have had an ongoing dialoge about god sightings in all fairness its rather out of context to infer he is speaks to god on behalf of god.....this is his personal experince which he is exploring and shairng he has had exeprinces that are very special to him and at this time he is exploring it IMO ..he is not trying to go on the reocrd for speaking on behalf of a diety....son..


as of yesterday this is where he is at with it............


Mr w...quotes: "In the end you may be correct. " Whatever is responsible for paranormal/supernatural events and experiences may not be "god,"but culturally that is the name we give to something which possesses; will, intelligence and powers so far beyond our present knowledge that they "appear" magical or god like. "

Ahh, the good ol' "Angel of the Lord". Throughout the Old Testament it is a theme that the God of the Bible is often considered to be the same as the "Angel of the Lord". When Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son, it was the "Angel of the Lord" who did so, yet Abraham replied as if he were speaking to God. In Exodus 3, in the "burning Bush" scene, the "Angel of the Lord" appears to Moses, but Moses considers this being to be "the Lord" (I won't quote specific references at this time of night but you know the story (or if you don't refer to the texts referenced).

Various theories exist as to exactly who/what this "Angel of the Lord" was. Some Christians insist it's Jesus. Others say it was just an angel (messenger) working as a mouthpiece for God (culturally speaking a Ruler could give a ruling on any event through the "moouthpiece" they had chosen). Whatever the case, the point clearly demonstrated is that whoever spoke the words, they are the words of God.

Despite this, I still think I would go back to my original post about the dichotomy between Genesis 17 and Genesis18. They are virtually the same, given the same timeframe of completion - 12 months from the date of prediction (one could even argue they are the same event given from different viewpoints). Whatever the case, I think chapter 17 shows God giving the promises to Abraham, while chapter 18 gives the promise to Sarah - note that in chapters 15-16, the same promise is given but through lack of Faith Abraham has sex with Hagai (a servant), which was culturally acceptable but shows how Abraham's lack of Faith in God's original promise led to complications o the Israelite nation.

For those interested in Old Testament history, it truly is a captivating series of events in these chapters. Certainly nothing "strange" about them as I can see (in case you hadn't realised, I am a very big fan of Old Testament History).

Just something to consider,

~ PA

So these three men in the chapter are angels then? Or more specifically God speaking through three angels?

At this time of night, I'mg going to plead the proverbial fifth ammendment, lol. It's 5am. I've got to get up and do some work in the yard tomorrow (been raininng, the lawnmoer's just come back from repairs), so anything I would say is factored intot that. However, to make some concession, the identity of the three individuals did not really affect the overall post (though we know at least one of the was Jehovah)l I wasn't really looking so much at the character of the three beings in this chapter, but rather looking at the theological implications of said passage (which if you've read my previous posts, you should have noted by now).

I'll give a more details answer tomorrow (or later today, depending on how things go - though since I still ahven't answered posts I've promised to answer from other people at this time of night, you might want to remind me,lol). At the least, my general point has been made (I think, from my point of view, at least).

Goodnight, Mr Cadet AK, lol

Yes, they are angels. (That's what the Hebrew infers.)

I would think it would have to be either three angels speaking for God or God and two angels.



Gotta say it Cadetak which is Cadetakian for awesome...or possibly poopy face, I'm not sure I got a C- in that class in school.

You need to keep working on that reading comprehension Sheri, since I never once claimed Mr. W was saying he speaks for God, I just said he has had interaction with a physical representation of God.

I also find it strange that they ask , "Where is Sarah ?" After all they are supposed to be god/ or Angels.

Angels should also have no need of sustenance nor having to question one's whereabouts.

Of course the passages ARE STRANGE.

I'm also more trusting of the hebrew translation as Kaizen pointed out. Is that ok ?

No they wer angels, Or spirit sons Of God.

You can Bet Father was there too, He usually hangs above all the action watching.

Love Omnaka

God and two angels.

The angels then go off to save Lot and his family while God brings fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gommorah.

LOL but of course he does. To people everywhere, all through those thousands of years and right up to today.

Abraham was able to recognise what he saw/experienced.
Manypeople are not.

Personally, god had to almost "rub my nose in it" before i woke up to what was going on, because i was such an athiest, and had been brought up in an education system based on scientific method, that i had never for a second considered that god could be anything more than a psychological construct of man, designed for many different purposes, from emotional support to a personal power base.

Today, if a man like abraham had god materialise at his front door, he would probably keep his mouth shut. But if he did describe the experience, at best he would be disbelieved ,and at worst he would be taken away for psychological assessment.
God is all about us, and quite capable of manifesting in many forms, and of manipulating the matter and the energy of which he is a part.
He does so at his will.

Some people accept this purely on faith. Some people have had physical experiences which confirm/prove it for them. In the western world, of course in the last couple of hundred years, most people have been taught to simply disbelieve, or to close their eyes to this aspect of our universal reality.

Having read a few of the intervening posts . No i do not claim to speak FOR god. Ours is a purely personal relationship.
I believe "my" god is an aspect of one universal god, but thats because "he" acts like he is.(both physically and in intent)

True, there is enough of the skeptic left in me ,to question and ponder on what exactly is the form, function, and purpose of the entity which intervened in my life.
I chose to put it in the christian cultural context, partly because that is the world i live in, and partly because i like the christian rules and laws for a good life and a safe society, but if I was a muslim, or a jew, or a buddhist etc.I expect my god would fit in that context just as well.

My oft stated philosophical pov is that
"if it walks like a god, talks like a god, acts like a god, and takes a personal interest in you, then the sanest (and safest) logical option is to treat it like a god "

I tend to see angels as avatars or physical manifwestations of god itself ( a form he takes for more effective and believable communication) so some of my interaction with what i call god have come through angelic intervention. Others have taken the form of prophetic rdreams or direct aural warnings of dangers just ahead or in the more distant future.

I have my own ideas on why god does not appear in such a way to all humanity, as to confirm his physical existence beyond doubt, but these are of a theological nature, constructed by myself, and thus of more personal value than public interest.

Well not even God is the type to barge into another mans house without an invitation and social graces. He was just being nice, enquiring about Sarah.

Much like Adam and Eve were hiding after they sinned and God asks aloud, "Where are you?" as if he didn't know...

And who says angels cannot eat or have no need of sustenance?

Good points.

Brother Jesus, who is an angel,Or so of God, Needed to Eat while incarnate on Earth.

Love Omnaka

So god acts coy ? Interesting.

Angles eating ? Do they get indigestion & belch & f*rt now also ?

It's funny how we are told at the same time to quit analyzing god on/in human terms but yet here> feet get washed and food is partaken of while god acts coy/naive ?


What about this verse>


"No man hath seen God at any time" John 1:18 ?

no no no no no. why doesnt he SHOW himself. as in "there. you happy? im here. your religions are wrong. ttyl"
none of this, i feel it in my heart, or schizo head stuff.
why hasnt he done that, to Anyone, at Any time? if he is real, why cant he prove it? why Hasnt he? he tells people not to worship others, other false gods. even though he hasnt shown himself to Prove he is...the one. and that worshipping something else Would actually be wrong. because he is here.

But thats exactly what he does do. And what i was talking about. Some people do have precisely that level of interaction with god. He has proven his existence to me physically beyond any doubt ( well, to beyond the same level of doubt i might have about whether my car or my brother truly exists)'

For example, if an entity in the form of an angel manifested before you and was visible to others. If that entity simply said. "i am going to take your lung cancer away from you and it will never return," and then you discovered that this actually occured, what would your own personal reaction be?

Would you
a) just accept this was an entity with the powers of god.

b say "wow what an hallucination and massive coincidence..Must have been something i ate " or

c) try to find a middle ground of acceptance where you acknowledged that something supernatural/paranormal had actually occured but admit to ignorance about its actual form and intent.

The way you answer that question, if you do so honestly, will tell you a lot about whether it would be worth gods time manifesting for you..BUT sometimes he will do so anyway, and sometimes that manifestation creates such a culture shock that all your preconceived ideas are blown away, and you become much more accepting, and open minded, as a result.

Worship is another matter, Humans worship god in many shapes and forms, as they find him.

I dont really worship him, I respect and admire him, and im very glad "he'' taken a personal interest in me, but worship is somewhat of a primitive term to define our relationship. We talk together and walk together.

I dont get the impression that bothers him in the least (partly because god is not actually asking for worship.) He is just trying to help us, and it is natural to worship something that has incredible physical power, and displays an intent to protect/ care for you, and provide you with guides for a better lifestyle.
He does ask us to follow guidelines for living which are designed to promote a healthy and safe lifestyle, but thats not worship, just common sense.

As to proof. How would your/humanity's relationship to/with god, change if he offered definitive proof? Would these changes be good or bad, and can a relationship based on knowledge be equated with one based on faith?

As i said, from personal experience, when god gets real, and in your face, you no longer have a true ability to choose on faith, you have to act in knowledge. That changes your life completely and it changes your relationship with god completely. I could no more refuse a request from god, than abraham would have been able to.

No thats not true. Because of free, will i could still choose to disobey, but i would do so with a totally different understanding of the consequences, and so it would alter the dynamics, both of my relationship with god, and how/why i obeyed him.

I understand and sympathise that this all sounds totally unbelievable to you. If someone had told me such a tale before god waltzed into my life, i would have had completely the same reaction. Now i know better, and see the world in a different way. I am sure there are many others in the same boat, and in fact occasionaly come across them, in real life, or in literature.

Come on, this is the being who created the platypus, He obviously has a sense of humor and a wide range of emotions and responses, so he's enjoying a bit of "human" interaction with Abraham, not surprising.

I think only obtuse angles eat and pass gas, acute angles are too small... angels however, are apparently able to eat, but gas-passing is not mentioned.

I think you're the only one who has analyzed God in this situation, Jor-el simply pointed out that we have seen Him act in this particular way before, you're the one who assigned the coy/naive analysis... so stop doing it


That's mentioned in other verses also. Think about it. God is omnipresent, everywhere at once. How could man see all of God? We have seen parts of God, but we haven't seen the totality of God, and are probably incapable of doing so.

Sorry, IAS but asking a question that you already know the answer to is acting coy/naive.

It is a common human trait that irks alot of people.


God also acted naive when Adam was hiding in TGOE . "Adam where art thou ?"


So if Adam was just the word for mankind, why was god addressing Adam on a personal level after the first sin ?

cocky much?

how so? other than a beleif, or hearing a voice.

yes...it does. and so how is that, any different than me believing the ways of gandalf? or believing in a fairy tale?

but still, you see my point. he hasnt shown himself, like I Asked. like Thousands of people ask, and have asked since the begining. if i want to SEE earlier man, i can look at fossils. i can see whats happened, and where we came from. if i wanna see a dog, ill go look over my neighbours fence, and say "oh, it does exist". but if i want to see something like 'god', nothing happens. nothing has ever happened. only what i said before. people feeling it in their hearts, because they just want to believe. or the wierd schizo head stuff.

Depends on how the interaction takes place. It doesn't seem like Abraham was irked, so most likely this was not perceived as that type of interaction.

I had Jehovah Witness come to my door today and explain to me about the comandments and how thou shalt not worship anything other than me,(god/jesus). So why did they decide to take a perfectly good story and claim it for their own? The lady I was talking to said, "Yeah, that jesus was the wrong word to use, beause in my little book its been changed,(Jehovah) here lies the real worship". How published printing can be so convincing!

There are people who can't see the color blue, does that mean that those of us who do claim to see the color blue are wrong, lying and/or schizoid? The fact that you have not seen or have refused to see God doesn't mean that any one who claims to must be wrong, lying and/or schizoid.

ooh gee, how convenient.
but then how does that explain when Others, 'see' god? you say we cant. but other believers say they can?
well, someone lied to me.

I said we can't see the totality of God, which is different from not being able to see whatever manifestation of Himself He chooses/allows you to see. Maybe you're lying to yourself.

umm, youre comparing hearing and vision. youre comparing a person with a disease basically, and a person who doesnt have it..
so youre saying i have a disease? thats why? well thats not nice.
and yes, it does mean something is up. when they claim they hear the VOICES in their head.

LMFAO
youre saying im lying, because you say we cant see the totality of god. where as others claim, they have seen god.
so, youre saying they are liars? why? would you believe me if i said i saw god? and what he Actually looks like?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/s2_...ve_monsters.jpg
there, if i said i saw god, and thats why he Actually looks like. what would you say?

Alrighty then

So now god is a funny guy too ? Can't imagine it.

Seems to take himself much too seriously

Being color-blind is not a disease.

apparently hes giving human traits to an all-power being/entity. he knows something that we dont i guess.

...nice response. youve got nothing basically.
although if it makes you take the tail outa your legs, ill correct myself *ahem* 'Disability'. youre comparing someone with a disibility to someone who doesnt. and youre saying I have one, for not seeing the big invisible entity in the clouds?...right