There is something else we have removed during that 40 years discipline. There is something you need to understand I would never have prayed in school. I should say I would never have said a prayer outloud. Out of respective for others I might have bowed my head, or at least have been quiet during it.


The main problem I see happening with respect to religion in this country is the lack of respect for anyone who professes to believe in a religion, more specific Christians. Just look at the what is written in the posts on here in respect to those who believe in God. You must be stupid, the intellegent people of this country have given up the idea of God.


Creationism has been disproven why because we cannot prove that there is a God. I admit from time to time I will attack someone but it is usually in response to being attacked myself. Sometimes I will ignore it. In a few cases I will just ignore the person from that point on at least from the time I have had a fill of it from said person. I am not going to mention names out of respect for said person.


As for the war in Iraq, I have already come up with a non-lethal way to win that war. Pig fat bombs.

But you see it is a belief and you tend to treat people who do believe different that those who don't believe. Maybe not friends but the rest of the world. Everyone is influenced by their beliefs or lack there of.

I have a question for you then. How come I have been reading on here how the test scores are the fault of Christians because they want some religion taught in school.

But this was off the point of what I was trying to understand in the first place. What i was getting at was that if religion has a direct influence on how you feel about abortion than why would you make exceptions for other types of killing when Jesus himself basically saids to turn the other cheek. BTW Daniel I hope you do not feel I am personally attacking you and if so I do apologize I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from in your notion of things.

Personally I try to treat people with respect regardless of their beliefs, I falter at times as I am human but also in my case I am very aware that one of the reasons I might treat people different at times is because of what religion did to me and what I associate with it. It was a painful and terrible lesson for me personally but by no means do I wish to treat people differently because they believe differently than I and as far as this subject I am a woman who lost my first child to abuse from a religious and abusive man and I still feel women have the right to choose even though I couldn't. That being said I probably shouldn't go on on this subject.

No, I didn't think you were.

As far as killing for other reasons, sometimes some people have to be stopped.


Everyone keeps saying that we armed Saddam before we invaded him.


My answer to this is if you give a kid a bat and he starts hitting and hurting everyone with that bat. You have to take it away from no matter how.

On the internet Christianity does get a far bit of disrespect but in reality Pagans and Atheists get far more disrespect.

No offense but if you make fantastic claims without any proof you can't expect everyone to follow...and people are realizing that they don't have to believe what your religion believes. People are realizing that they don't have to believe in what your religion believes.

Discipline and education exist without the need of religion. Religion isn't necessary for a society to function and survive.

Think about it, your actually part atheist. There are dozens of gods that you don't believe in, once you realize why you don't believe in those gods you will understand why atheists don't believe in yours.

Sorry but as i stated in another topic of mine when I was told to look it up myself. I have to tell you to look it up yourself.

Don't believe it, I don't really care. The majority of the U.S. is Christian or at least a believer in god. Even in my mostly liberal city there are five christian churches within walking distance. Half a dozen billboards with bible passages on them on the highways. "In God we trust" is written on my money. Christianity is the majority and power in this country...by pure obviousness your getting treated better.

I am not really sure if anyone on a personal level is being attacked because of being a christian. So in that sense you are right. But how often do you here of a syngoge being burnt down. True these churches may be being burnt by other so called christians because of the color of the people attending them.

I rarely ever hear of any type of religious establishment being burnt down. Whats your point?

The point is when you here about something being attacked on the news it is almost always christian related.

I haven't watched the actual news in a long time so I am not sure if you are right or not. I don't watch it because half of it is agenda driven and the other half is spent using fear tactics(don't do this or you may die...more info at 11) You'd be blind not to see that Christians have done their fair bit of persecuting, disrespect, and attacking...whether it be presently or historically. It doesn't matter if the news reports it or not.

Its beside the point really. You imply that religion is needed for an educated, disciplined, and effective society...for which there is no reason for that to be true.

I never stated that they hadn't. As for religion and school. What else has been removed from school that someone didn't like or wanted to be taught to his/her kid.


For instance did you know that they have been talking about not teaching about the founding fathers and Lincoln. Why? Because everyone knows about them. Why do we know about them because they have been taught to us in school.

I'm really not seeing what your getting at. Religion was removed from schools and you think that is why test scores have fallen, what I'm wondering is why you think the lack of religion is the real cause...or better yet why you think reinstalling religious practices in school will make the test scores rise.

Because then maybe 2+2 will equal 4 agian and not maybe 3. Maybe because we will stop trying to remove or change the 100 hardest words to spell because they are to hard. On this list are the three words two, to, and too.


In other words we have become used to removing things we don't like such as religion, or because it is too hard. Do I think religion has a place in school no not really.

Maybe or maybe not. I'm not willing to break the seperation of church and state or freedom of religion for that maybe.

Putting religion back into school isn't going to make the teachers teach better, it isn't going to update the textbooks, it isn't going to higher the standard for what is or what is not 'too hard', it isn't going to make the students study any harder, etc.

If you don't believe religion has a place in school then why do you want in school?

we didn't have a so called seperation of church and state problem until the 60's. I think that is when the first law suits were filed. I wasn't in school during that time.


mainly because in my point of view they have replaced a highly suggested religion. With a forced religion or non-religion. I know you will argue that non-religion is not a religion but if you take a close look at what is going on you will see that it is being treated as a religion.

Christianity should not be taught in schools. It imposes a belief system that not everyone follows,
and therefor makes it look rather selfish.

They are both belief systems.


Main Entry: be·lief
Pronunciation: \bə-ˈlēf\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English beleave, probably alteration of Old English gelēafa, from ge-, associative prefix + lēafa; akin to Old English lȳfan — more at believe
Date: 12th century
1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2: something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence


The tenet held by non believers of God is that there is no God.

Not believing in any God is not a belief system, it is just a belief. It does not require a system to serve a purpose.
There is NO system to not believing in a God. That is where it makes all the difference in what you are concidering.

There is also all the other religions you have to take into concideration. Imposing christianity on these people that
follow other belief systems would make christianity look selfish, and therefor should not be taught in schools as a
main belief.

If you cannot understand that then you are truely blinded by something for which I will not even begin to
contemplate on.

forcing others to believe what you believe is a belief system. I am tired of this argument/debate you and your fellow atheists have twisted what I have said enough. Nothing that I porpoised being taught in school is Christian or any other religion based. It is religion neutral.


Sorry i should say forcing what you believe to be the only accepted thing taught in school is unconstitutional.

why is what you believe more important than what I believe. This is what the founding fathers were trying to avoid with seperation of church and state.

Fine be tired of it that is your prerogative. Christianity is NOT a neutral belief system, it never has and it never
will be. Some people do not follow a one God system, some people do not follow a God system, some people
have their own personal belief that does not follow any other.

Putting christianity belief in schools above all others is SELFISH.

Edit: By the way I am not an Atheist, I am Agnostic.

same question what makes your belief more important than mine. I never said christianity was religion nuetral. I said that what I proposed being taught in school is. All religions have a creation story of some sort.


My proposal was for teachers to state that most people on the planet believe life was created by a supierier bieng. Some call him/her/it God. by the way every religion that has a God refers to their God as God.

Scientific methods use a lot of research and experiments to reach conclusions, and can/will be adjusted if
further studies prove something different. This is why science works so well, and why it is the foundation
of teaching methods in schools as well as universities. Religion should be in schools, But, only as an
alternative method.