The origins of the oldest (organized) religion are most important; enough to automatically render suspect any tales in/of subsequent religions (as I see it). Here's blog entry of 6/29:

Strange how I just became of aware of this recently; and strangely in tandem with my reading Salman Rushdie's MIDNIGHT'S CHILDREN (set in and largely about India): There's a 3-square-miles area of HIGHLY radioactive ash 10 miles west of Jodhpur, Rajasthan. It appears to verify the ancient Mahabharata; a forerunner of Vedic (Hindu) scripture. (Oldest is the Rig Veda). Here's the relevant (alleged?) quote:

"A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe...An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor...it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.

"The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.

"After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."

The account purportedly or apparently describes the genocide/extinction of the Vrishni and Andakha "races."

The implication of this unprecedented find (if true) is astronomically bigger than virtually everyone (globally) is aware of now: We have, for the first time ever, hard evidence to verify a significant component of truth (of a staggeringly powerfully unexplained event) in an ancient writing of an organized religion! Of course it makes most sense that the oldest religion would most qualify... THERE ARE SIMILAR ENOUGH VEDIC ACCOUNTS OF ATOMIC DEVASTATION! Even if the Mahabharata has been or will be (convincingly) debunked, the radiation evidence still applies to Hindus; therefore humanity.

[That's not putting Hinduism as we know it on a pedestal. The godawfully oppressive caste system (that's supposed to be illegal) and other horrors like female infanticide can safely prevent any notions of Gandhi-like "godliness" having major influence among Hindu Indians... Any scientific breakthrough the magnitude of formally Contacting a nonhuman intelligence (at least eventually) will far transcend any organized/named religion].

The obvious 2, entirely scientific/normal possibilities of the Jodhpur find are: time travel (by someone decidedly evil/amoral in this case) from our nuclear age to their time or, even more incredibly (to me), a similarly-evolved civilization as ours (that apparently existed alongside primitive people) of which, somehow, there is almost ZERO evidence (at least as yet) of its existence!

Could I possibly be making a fool of myself? Is this too good to be true? If the radiation is as it appears, and it doesn't bolster the overall anti-nuclear position, I don't know what else would. (end entry)

Per discussion on another site, need to correct that the Mahabharata wasn't a forerunner of the Vedas, but was written when specifically atomic destruction was inconceivable. Here's a good web reference:

http://www.geocities.com/lavlesh/More_Abou..._city_found.htm

And my blog:

http://lightworth.blogspot.com/

(Might be out and about here and there; this being the 4th in the US. Checking back as often as possible. Cheers).

When ever i read some stuff containing the laughable "gorkha and his flying chariot"..i feel like laughing!!
The website you have referred - LAVLESH...does the same mistake of quoting the gorkha stuff.

The "Gorkha and his flying chariot" is a internet hoax and any website quoting the same along with other claims is, in my opinion, not worthy of the read as the information is false.

It is Erich Von Daniken and Graham Hancock who have popularised the myht of ancient cities being found in india where nuclear wars have been fought...!!

Spoiler! I was sitting back ready for a hearty laugh at the development of this thread!

OK, then can someone explain the very high level of radiation (in 3 square miles) itself? The only conceivable mundane explanation I can think of is if it was an underground nuclear test site, but no one would be stupid enough to start a housing project anywhere near such a site. CAN WE ASSUME INDIA AS WE KNOW IT HAS NEVER SEEN AN ABOVE GROUND NUKE EXPLOSION?! How could there be ANY kind of nuclear tests that close to a city? It seems obvious to me that the (extreme) radiation isn't a naturally-occurring phenomenon... I wish I could remember the TV documentary I saw a few or several years ago that showed an ancient (enough) stone carving (somewhere in India) of a VERY apparent mushroom cloud.

What makes you think there is a high radiation area? There are any number of websites announcing fantasy as Truth - is there some Indian government website that says "yep, hot as hell, here're the readings and here's the location?"

You might also want to consider the fact that only fifty years later, most of the ground-level nuclear test sites in Nevada aren't very radioactive at all.

Well, any GOVERNMENT website isn't going to state anything that goes against conventional thinking. They're very plainly not in the business of major revelations... I don't know, I suppose it COULD be a hoax/lie. Sorry I can't afford to go to Jodhpur to verify that there was, in fact, an attempt at building a housing project next to the radiated area several years ago.

http://www.s8int.com/atomic2.html

http://www.s8int.com/atomic1.html

http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm251013.html


http://s8int.com/phile/atomic5.html

this study has been going on for decades...

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=A...5b1d211fb0b7eaa

but the now blame the radioactivity on nuclears spills as it now appears to be a nuclear waste dumping ground... but how long ago where these nuclear power stations.. waste first put there? Are they just further contaminating these areas to cover up these anomolies?


Note how other ancient areas of great note.. of interesting ancient anomolies have been destroyed ..or reworked by organizations ok'd by governments to contaminate,destroy ancient sites... look at the Urals.. Iraq ...


I will have to dig them up again... or start a new thread on this!!!!

Right...what do you call high radiation?

High enough that the Indian government has cordoned off the area in question west of Jodhpur.

Thank you, crystal sage, for those links! I can see I've barely scratched the surface of the (very apparent) ancient nuclear war scenario. (Will be out running errands for awhile. Checking back later).

Right, why can't I find anything about the cordoning in the Times of India archives?

Or is it an invisible cordon?

Or do you mean that cordoning off when Elizabeth Hurley had her wedding there?

Yeah, they're all in on it, or something.

I just find it odd that a Google search brings up very little by way of actual sources - just lots of people on sites like Geocities reasserting the same unsubstantiated information.

An ancient nuclear war would be an amazing finding. An unexplained 3 mile area of dangerous levels of radiation in a highly populated area would in itself be an amazing finding. If this is true, there are scientists all over it. Where are the papers?

SM, do you have any primary sources at all you could point us to to read up more on this?

Mushroom cloud? Or mushroom?

I watched the tv series they made in India of the maharabaha, an it was a tv repsentation of the book an in it all the wars etc were fought on flying chariots with bombs exploding thrown from hands, so where did they get that idea from, the book was written many centuries ago.

Well, guys, I have some news... evidently there is no...nor ever was ... an archaeological excavation ten miles west of Jodhpur.

After not finding anything in the archives I decided to have a look on satellite images ...nothing there.

As those images are copyrighted, I made one from Google Earth consistent with the Russian image I have.... and all you find is fields and irrigation channels:

Click to view attachment

I’m trying to find some objective information about this extraordinary claim, all I can find is the claim being made by the Archeologist ‘Francis Taylor’, yet I can’t find any information about an Archeologist named Francis Taylor, could anyone post the credentials for this ‘expert’?... just wondering

The only accredited Francis Taylor I can come up with is an American museum director ... who died in 1957.

ED:

After looking a little more I found:

Francis Taylor, Accountant, amateur archaeologist, Trustee for CBA

I'm not sure if there were any actual excavations near Jodhpur; just a radioactive area (assuming it's true). The excavations (that I've come across so far) were at Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro; where a lot of people apparently died instant, unexpected deaths.

... and they are also cordoned off?

Unfortunately there's no info on either of the links crystal sage provided. I know as much about this as basically anyone, but perhaps the Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro sites were discovered in or around '72, when the DU (depleted uranium) "natural nuclear reactor" mines were discovered (per the first link).

Well, no, Harappa was discovered in the late 50s and mostly excavated by the end of the 60s and Mohenjo-Daro in 1922.

And as far as Jodhpur...the only thing mined there is Gypsum. Not very radioactive...as far as I recall

Wasn't much of this shown to be inaccurate in a previous thread: Atlantis obviously they blew it up

Or has some current evidence come to light?

cormac

nah, mostly the same stuff.... in a different bag and different ribbon.

Just as speculation, is it possible the Jodhpur site, in addition to being ground zero of a blast, was a toxic dump of bodies and other hot things? Could such a landfill possibly have made the site more hot? Ashes to ashes? Or was it just one bigger-than-usual (it seems) blast? It makes sense that survivors would want to centralize the dead and ruined... And could that have been from whence the Hindu cremation ritual came? Just thoughts.

Thanks questionmark, I only found links to this article and the 'Atlantis obviously they blew it up' article, what search engine did you use?...

so this theory is either the work of a museum director or an amateur archaeologist, explains much...

I used google. But see, it is worse: The Museum director evidently has no publication credits and the amateur specializes in Roman buildings in Britain, the only deviation I could find is that he once moderated a slide show about Petra. So, neither could have been the quoted archaeologist.

I am starting to suspect that the quote is as good as a three dollar note.

I agree, this story is eerily similar to Erich von Däniken’s Dropa Stone fantasy, the expert’s involved don’t exist and there are no artifacts, basically nothing to back up the claim except the story itself...

Scientists find uranium in Ladakh


India has enough indigenous uranium to last 50 years'
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2007/0...41102980300.htm

Measurements of Natural Radioactivity in Some Water and Soil Samples of Punjab State, India
http://ibe.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/12/5/357?ck=nck
Indoor radon concentration in the rural dwellings of Chhattisgarh state (India)
http://rpd.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/...act/119/1-4/434

Radon measurements have been carried out in groundwater of Himachal Pradesh and Punjab states, India. Radon concentration values in potable water show a wide range of variation from source to source and from place to place. Generally, radon concentration values in thermal springs groundwater have been found to be higher than the values from other sources.
http://www.rsc.org/publishing/journals/EM/...sp?doi=b209096c

Measurement of alpha radioactive air pollutants in fly ash brick dwellings
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=A...2f640fe0ebd3ded

Cheap Flights from Uranium City to India

http://www.farecompare.com/flights/Uranium...itycountry.html





the coal in India has......

so? what does that have to do with the OP's idea of ancient nuclear war in india? nothing!!
In Kerala, in India(the state i am originally from) there is a place called chavara which beach sands with high radiation levels.
So, as per the OP's thinking ..any where where there is high radiation...was a ancient nuclear war occured???
A BIG NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Just to add something here:

Natural elevated radioactivity happens everywhere, as one can see from this radioactivity map of the US:



blue is lowest

I'm referring to decidedly ABNORMALLY high radiation and other evidence of sudden mass murder by a very powerful weapon. And I believe crystal sage is pointing out that natural radioactivity is abundant enough that more technologically-advanced people/beings could have made use of it sometime before recorded history. Obviously no one knows for sure... Looks like the key is to get enough clarity on the area near Jodhpur. How can that happen? Are there any Indians or Pakistanis who read this site's forums who live close enough to investigate (if not from the city itself)? Assuming it really exists, the objective is to determine whether or not the radioactive ash can be reasonably determined as naturally-occurring.

... is everything that ranges above the medium radioactivity level, and is found naturally there where lack of water or precipitation does not wash it out.

Dude Spherical...I am from India.
I have heard a lot of such stories. But all of these originate in hoaxes by erich von daniken and graham hancock and Francis Taylor.
If any ancient city is excavated or found in india, it would be the business of The Archaeological Survey of India. Their website nor any of the mainstream newspapers have ever hinted at such a story.

You can check up ASI's website at ASI

I couldn't find anything on that site on this subject. I searched "Harappa excavation" and got diddley on the first 2 results. Please be more specific. The objective regarding Jodhpur stands. Or someone please direct me to a convincingly debunking link.

Nuclear test sites in the US...

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Almanac/Testsite.shtml

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=map%20of%...sa=N&tab=il

Add to that sites where there was significant uranium leaks


http://www.scidacreview.org/0801/html/subsurface.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A96E948260


http://pro-resources.net/nuclear-power-plant.html



Natural???

Which does not explain it. Because there where there is lots of precipitation there is no elevated radiation.

and, btw, why does the same phenomena happen in Europe... there never were any nuclear testing in either Spain, Greece and so on:

but they have nuclear power stations...

http://www.nea.fr/html/general/profiles/spain.html


http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf85.html
Fuel cycle facilities

Operation of the Saelices el Chico (Salamanca) uranium mine ended in 2000, though minor output continued to 2002 from decommissioning. The 1600 tonnes used in Spain each year is imported. ENUSA has a 10% stake in mining in Niger.


I am sure that will show up in the readings of radiation on the maps

Nuclear power plants, past or present, are only a small portion of the hits on a radioactivity map, the rest would be natural occurances. Naturally occuring sources of radiation do not equate to a nuclear war in ancient times. There is a whole infrastructure that goes along with the production and use of nuclear power. Where is the ancient infrastructure for all of that?

cormac

or to where uranium was washed by precipitation to new areas.

Ok, lets not mix apples and pears here, Uranium is a naturally occurring element, and its presence does not prove anything (except that Uranium is present), the same goes for Radon.

And as you said, Uranium gets washed to new areas... which is why low precipitation regions tend to have a higher natural radiation.

To prove that there was an atomic explosion, or any other kind of fusion the presence of Cesium-137 or Strontium-90 has to be established. I fail to see that in any of the areas where there are supposed to be ancient atomic explosions. And areas where these elements are proven are not cordoned off, they are registered with the IAEA, and as such matter of public record.

first of all... had to share this... Glow in the dark teeth!!!

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=A...8a8e52c0bdc4558



An unexpected rise in strontium-90 in US deciduous teeth in the 1990s

Strontium-90 (Sr-90) concentrations in 2089 deciduous (baby) teeth, mostly from persons living near nuclear power reactors, reveal that average levels rose 48.5% for persons born in the late 1990s compared to those born in the late 1980s. This trend represents the first sustained increase since the early 1960s, before atmospheric weapons tests were banned.


http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/produc...osti_id=4083915

Sunflowers used to cleanup nuclear waste...

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older.../199701149.html

Much of this radioactive waste is taken up by their food chain!!!!

especially tea!!! gives a new meaning to 'green tea'




Strontium-90 in milk and human bone in India.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13781869


http://hydrolab.arsusda.gov/cesium137bib.htm






http://consumercide.com/food/nukelunch.html


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_...mine/html/7.stm


http://www.newspostindia.com/report-12620
Chlorine 36 and Cesium 137 in ice-core samples from mid-latitude glacial

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=A...ac929574216169b

surveys have shown large amounts of Cesium-137 and Cobalt-60 forming radioactive ..






http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-128185711.html

Right, but see, if those elements would have been present before the testing of atomic weapons we would not notice an increase.

The increase in Xenon-133 and Krypton-85, for example just indicate that somewhere an atmospheric fusion has taken place, as they are gases and tend to mix with the atmosphere and after a relatively short time are uniformly mixed in it.

Besides, I am not so sure that with the half-hazard testing of both Indians and Pakistanis the nuclei stayed underground. My bet would be quite to the contrary with the increase in Strontium.

unless we dig deep


look at old ice samples in the Tibetan areas..

isn't there a way of testing how old some of these samples are by the levels of decay?

or even noting how plants seem to absorb these nuclear byproducts.. then perhaps testing some ancient seeds?

I thought the story was not that there was a layer of radioactive ash, but that there was a layer of vitrified (Fused) stone that had been created by a enormose heat source, such as a nuclear explosion. Perhaps that is a different story?

I hope you still feel like laughing. After going back and looking at it in its entirety, I just want to cry.

cormac

EUREKA! I believe I've realized the central question: What SHAPE is the radiated area in question? How CIRCULAR is it?

And how many times more radiation are we talking about at the (near) Jodhpur site than areas of naturally higher radiation?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2585723/High-nat...in-Kerala-India

Kerala stands out... the area of the Red Rain...

http://www.dae.gov.in/ni/ni0602/ni0602.htm

this would be oober cool



if it was true

=/

check this out

Ancient Nuclear Reactors in Africa.....hehehehe...

...yep...