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Atheist God
If we recovered a UFO first thing first is that it would alter our history forever, not technologically but it would confirm we aren't alone.

Many people assume that we would reverse engineer it and replicate the technology etc but could this really happen? No

The technology would be so far ahead of anything we could conceive it would appear to be magical and far to complex for us to figure out at our surrent stage of development.

An example would be if I gave the ancient Egyptians my blackberry. If I gave them my phone would they be able to figure it out, reverse engineer it and replicate it using their tools?

Finding an advanced craft from a much further ahead civilization would not alter our technological development at all until we had the knowledge and tools to begin to figure out how it works.
MID
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 03:50 PM) *
If we recovered a UFO first thing first is that it would alter our history forever, not technologically but it would confirm we aren't alone.


I we recovered a UFO, and were able to determine that it was in fact an alien craft, it would indeed confirm the existence of extra-terrestrial life. I think that's a given.

QUOTE
Many people assume that we would reverse engineer it and replicate the technology etc but could this really happen? No

The technology would be so far ahead of anything we could conceive it would appear to be magical and far to complex for us to figure out at our surrent stage of development.

An example would be if I gave the ancient Egyptians my blackberry. If I gave them my phone would they be able to figure it out, reverse engineer it and replicate it using their tools?


It's possible that what you assume could be true. However, it's also possible that what we discovered could be confirming as pertains to advanced theories we are investigating at the moment, and might provide some pertinent clues we could use to solidify things and develop such advanced technologies.

QUOTE
Finding an advanced craft from a much further ahead civilization would not alter our technological development at all until we had the knowledge and tools to begin to figure out how it works.


Yes, indeed. That probably goes without saying...

someoldguy
QUOTE
If we recovered a UFO first thing first is that it would alter our history forever


You may have guessed by now that I'm one that would definitely agree with you on that!

IMO, it wouldn't be the most important event in American history (if it was recovered in the US) but the most important event in human history. If the country that located it even attempted to hide such a discovery, there would undoubtedly be a tremendous backlash from the rest of the world to share it. Other countries would assuredly donate funding and volunteer the best minds of their nations to help study it. No, this would be a world discovery, not a national discovery.

Something to think about IMO.


QUOTE
An example would be if I gave the ancient Egyptians my blackberry. If I gave them my phone would they be able to figure it out, reverse engineer it and replicate it using their tools?

Finding an advanced craft from a much further ahead civilization would not alter our technological development at all until we had the knowledge and tools to begin to figure out how it works.


Great points. I'm totally with you there!


Atheist God
QUOTE
It's possible that what you assume could be true. However, it's also possible that what we discovered could be confirming as pertains to advanced theories we are investigating at the moment, and might provide some pertinent clues we could use to solidify things and develop such advanced technologies.


We wouldn't even no where to begin examining because it would be and have to be so far ahead of any theory or technology we have today it would appear to be magical to us.

We can't find clues for anything if we wouldn't know how to start looking for them.

As I said it would be like the ancient Egyptians trying to figure out how a blackberry works without the knowledge or tools necessary. It would be impossible for them to do so because they didn't have things like quantum physics or even electricity for that matter.
Mr.Dot
I think we would have a much greater chance at figuring out an alien space craft then Egyptians figuringn out your blackberry. Because we have a much more complete understanding of the world around us. And Egyptians haven't developed electronics. Even if the craft would be too advanced and complex for us to replicate, still we would have some kind of understanding behind it.

Maybe if the space craft was a peace of rock and nothing more, that would seem like magic to me huh.gif
Atheist God
QUOTE (Mr.Dot @ Jul 5 2008, 04:38 PM) *
I think we would have a much greater chance at figuring out an alien space craft then Egyptians figuringn out your blackberry. Because we have a much more complete understanding of the world around us. And Egyptians haven't developed electronics. Even if the craft would be too advanced and complex for us to replicate, still we would have some kind of understanding behind it.

Maybe if the space craft was a peace of rock and nothing more, that would seem like magic to me huh.gif


Your right the Egyptians never had electronics... This being said we don't have whatever means of power, propulsion or computing that an advanced alien craft has either... We would be just as lost as the Egyptians would be trying to figure out something thousands of years ahead of all known theory and technology.

We would have no understanding because it would utilize technology and energy sources far beyond anything we have conceived. We may have an understanding of our environment and we may think our technology would help us to figure something like that out but we would be lost.

The Egyptians trying to figure out a blackberry would be like us trying to figure out an advanced alien craft if we could even recognize it as such.

It is likely we would not even be able to figure out what an alien space craft is and what it's purpose is.... Think of the monolith in 2001 and how we couldn't figure out what it was, it's purpose or what it's made of.
Scudbuster
[quote name='someoldguy' date='Jul 5 2008, 04:46 PM' post='2378703']


IMO, it wouldn't be the most important event in American history (if it was recovered in the US) but the most important event in human history. If the country that located it even attempted to hide such a discovery, there would undoubtedly be a tremendous backlash from the rest of the world to share it. Other countries would assuredly donate funding and volunteer the best minds of their nations to help study it. No, this would be a world discovery, not a national discovery.
[quote]


There is no question that it would be the most important event in human history- however, that is not how governments/elected leaders/dictators, etc think. Their immediate reaction is, we must secure this, analyze it, see what we can glean from this discovery to further secure ( or elevate) our standing in the world. It's all about the technological "high ground". Imagine the questions - "What if the Rooskies have just recovered one"? "What if the Rooskies recovered one 5 years ago"? "OMG- We're way behind - speed is now our imperative". Of course when they first looked at the technology it was far in advance of anything anyone had ever seen - all the more reason to secure it under the highest priority possible. Is is akin to the Blackberry example mentioned by AG. I read once where someone compared it to giving Columbus a nuclear submarine back around 1490- I don't think he would have been sailing it to America in 1492, he didn't even know what electricity was, to say nothing of nuclear power.

Knowing all this, you can imagine the worry and unanswered questions that rippled through the minds of Dwight Eisenhower, Gen George Marshall, Gen. Clarence McMullin and the other military heavyweights back in Washington. So, if you secure it, swear those involved to secrecy, and threaten everyone else, you have set your plan in place to begin answering these questions. That's how things work, it isn't anything like "Hey world, guess what, we just made the discovery of the century, and we can't wait to share it all with you". That would be highly irresponsible of our leaders (and I'm glad they did what they did back then), but it is time to rethink the extreme levels of secrecy, and begin informing the public of some of the events of the past 60 plus years, and Roswell, N.M. 1947 would be a good place to start.
Atheist God
QUOTE
Knowing all this, you can imagine the worry and unanswered questions that rippled through the minds of Dwight Eisenhower, Gen George Marshall, Gen. Clarence McMullin and the other military heavyweights back in Washington. So, if you secure it, swear those involved to secrecy, and threaten everyone else, you have set your plan in place to begin answering these questions. That's how things work, it isn't anything like "Hey world, guess what, we just made the discovery of the century, and we can't wait to share it all with you". That would be highly irresponsible of our leaders (and I'm glad they did what they did back then), but it is time to rethink the extreme levels of secrecy, and begin informing the public of some of the events of the past 60 plus years, and Roswell, N.M. 1947 would be a good place to start.


This thread is not a Roswell conspiracy thread.... There is no evidence of an alien crash anywhere, it's all hearsay and speculation.
someoldguy
QUOTE
There is no question that it would be the most important event in human history- however, that is not how governments/elected leaders/dictators, etc think. Their immediate reaction is, we must secure this, analyze it, see what we can glean from this discovery to further secure ( or elevate) our standing in the world. It's all about the technological "high ground". Imagine the questions - "What if the Rooskies have just recovered one"? "What if the Rooskies recovered one 5 years ago"? "OMG- We're way behind - speed is now our imperative". Of course when they first looked at the technology it was far in advance of anything anyone had ever seen - all the more reason to secure it under the highest priority possible


Yessir, but I guess it all boils down to a matter of faith. That is, what do you believe that the United States would do? Likewise, what do you believe the Soviet Union would have done? Or Canada? Or the UK? How about Egypt? This is an opportunity for the world to get together, not to fight one another. This would have been a matter of humanity finally getting together for the sake of a common cause.

Would we throw that opportunity away? I don't think so.

Agent. Mulder
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 07:50 PM) *
If we recovered a UFO first thing first is that it would alter our history forever, not technologically but it would confirm we aren't alone.


derrr. everyone knows that.
...could maybe cause some problems in religion. but w/e

QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 07:50 PM) *
Many people assume that we would reverse engineer it and replicate the technology etc but could this really happen? No


yes, it could. if we Were able to find out how to use it. Your opinion is not correct. neither is mine. and we may not know until the gov would reveal "yes we have one. and we could/couldnt replicate the technology"

QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 07:50 PM) *
The technology would be so far ahead of anything we could conceive it would appear to be magical and far to complex for us to figure out at our surrent stage of development.


not quite. just takes some imagination and brains. weve done alot in our time, Maybe, just Maybe we could understand the basics of it. give man some credit

QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 07:50 PM) *
An example would be if I gave the ancient Egyptians my blackberry. If I gave them my phone would they be able to figure it out, reverse engineer it and replicate it using their tools?


would they be able to replicate it? at their time, probably not. would they be able to use it? yes, its quite possible.

QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 07:50 PM) *
Finding an advanced craft from a much further ahead civilization would not alter our technological development at all until we had the knowledge and tools to begin to figure out how it works.


pretty much.........................unless an ET kinda...helped...a little.........you know

*edit* did you just see the roswell special on larry king? with good old bill? is that what sparked this?
Atheist God
QUOTE
not quite. just takes some imagination and brains. weve done alot in our time, Maybe, just Maybe we could understand the basics of it. give man some credit


I give man credit enough to say we will achieve great technologies in the future that would be capable of traveling the universe.

I however know that at our current technological level it would be just as impossible for us to figure out such exotic technology as it would for the Egyptians to figure out how a blackberry works.

QUOTE
would they be able to replicate it? at their time, probably not. would they be able to use it? yes, its quite possible.


They wouldn't even know what it is, the language that did not exist at the time... It would be viewed as a magic box and likely worshiped. The possibility is there but it is so remote i wouldn't put money on it.

QUOTE
pretty much.........................unless an ET kinda...helped...a little.........you know

*edit* did you just see the roswell special on larry king? with good old bill? is that what sparked this?


I caught the last 10 minutes of it at 5 am this morning before I left to tend to my 'secret' garden. I have made arguments like this before, Bill Nye kicks ***.

==

I think people who believe we could figure out exotic alien technology speak from arrogance and not reality.
Agent. Mulder
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 11:02 PM) *
I give man credit enough to say we will achieve great technologies in the future that would be capable of traveling the universe.

I however know that at our current technological level it would be just as impossible for us to figure out such exotic technology as it would for the Egyptians to figure out how a blackberry works.



They wouldn't even know what it is, the language that did not exist at the time... It would be viewed as a magic box and likely worshiped. The possibility is there but it is so remote i wouldn't put money on it.



I caught the last 10 minutes of it at 5 am this morning before I left to tend to my 'secret' garden. I have made arguments like this before, Bill Nye kicks ***.

==

I think people who believe we could figure out exotic alien technology speak from arrogance and not reality.


i wouldnt say that at all. id just say those people are having some faith in man. but lets, say, for the sake of argument (not high-jacking this), but if we had recovered a craft from roswell, im not sure if we'd have a Replica, OR be able to use it just like we do with a car. it woulda been 61 years now, and they Still may not Fully understand it. but they may have an understanding. or at least use their imagination and come up with some theories.
and as for the egyptians part, we are not...as "dumb", for lack of a better word. where we wouldnt worship it. we'd Try to find out it works, and see if we can get it to work. maybe not understand how, but at least see if we could turn the damn thing on. so to speak.
Scudbuster
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 06:30 PM) *
This thread is not a Roswell conspiracy thread.... There is no evidence of an alien crash anywhere, it's all hearsay and speculation.


When a bunch of guys - or women - or whatever - sit around thinking out loud about something they were not involved with - that's speculation. When there is documented testimony from personnel who witnessed - or were actually involved - in something extrodinary, that's a different story and no longer in the "speculation" department. Regarding Roswell, there are probably at least 25-30 ex military types who were involved in some aspect of this recovery - and have documented their experiences.
Scudbuster
QUOTE (someoldguy @ Jul 5 2008, 06:43 PM) *
Yessir, but I guess it all boils down to a matter of faith. That is, what do you believe that the United States would do? Likewise, what do you believe the Soviet Union would have done? Or Canada? Or the UK? How about Egypt? This is an opportunity for the world to get together, not to fight one another. This would have been a matter of humanity finally getting together for the sake of a common cause.

Would we throw that opportunity away? I don't think so.


Well that's a wonderful altruistic way to look at things, but in the history of the world, it's not been the chosen path by the vast majority of countries when it comes to matters of high signifigance, including the U.S. of course.
Agent. Mulder
QUOTE (someoldguy @ Jul 5 2008, 10:43 PM) *
Yessir, but I guess it all boils down to a matter of faith. That is, what do you believe that the United States would do? Likewise, what do you believe the Soviet Union would have done? Or Canada? Or the UK? How about Egypt? This is an opportunity for the world to get together, not to fight one another. This would have been a matter of humanity finally getting together for the sake of a common cause.

Would we throw that opportunity away? I don't think so.


lmao. youre damn right we would. weve been at war with each other since day one, and Still are.
why would one country, give up the opportunity to be 'on the top'? to have the most advanced peice of technology known to man (whether their able to use it now, or not. i dont care). point being, theyre selfish. and alot is based on egos too. in my opinion, i Highly doubt that any country would Share this knowledge. its not like were talking about, a lost book, ACTUALLY written by jesus, for example. that belongs in history and museums. and not too many people can benefit from it. as in, the u.s.a. wont say "OH S***!!! did you see the book russia has!!!??? were ****ed"
its different when it comes to something, where the country able to Replicate/reverse engineer the technology, will rule the world.
NigelTM
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 05:21 PM) *
We wouldn't even no where to begin examining because it would be and have to be so far ahead of any theory or technology we have today it would appear to be magical to us.

We can't find clues for anything if we wouldn't know how to start looking for them.

As I said it would be like the ancient Egyptians trying to figure out how a blackberry works without the knowledge or tools necessary. It would be impossible for them to do so because they didn't have things like quantum physics or even electricity for that matter.

I agree with this. Now to continue our speculation about our ET friends concerning this thread, let's say they were like the alien intelligence in 2001, and buried or some other way left a craft for us to find. It's possible they'd have some sort of Rosetta Stone to help us unlock their mystery. After all, we did that with Voyager--the record jacket lists instructions for playing the record, which then tells other intelligences about us and our world.

If our alien friends did that, we could very well reverse engineer their technology. But if they didn't, or somehow we couldn't decipher the "Rosestta Stone", then we'd be in the dark. But we'd know with 100% certainty we aren't alone.
Agent. Mulder
QUOTE (NigelTM @ Jul 6 2008, 12:17 AM) *
I agree with this. Now to continue our speculation about our ET friends concerning this thread, let's say they were like the alien intelligence in 2001, and buried or some other way left a craft for us to find. It's possible they'd have some sort of Rosetta Stone to help us unlock their mystery. After all, we did that with Voyager--the record jacket lists instructions for playing the record, which then tells other intelligences about us and our world.

If our alien friends did that, we could very well reverse engineer their technology. But if they didn't, or somehow we couldn't decipher the "Rosestta Stone", then we'd be in the dark. But we'd know with 100% certainty we aren't alone.


very true. and dont worry AG, im not high-jacking this. but people claimed ONE ET from the crash at roswell was alive, and they had contact with it. SO, lets just say, if we found a craft, and an Occupant was inside, they could be the 'rosetta stone' that nigel was talking about. for how to use it. but thats IF they are alive...and willing to talk.
Atheist God
QUOTE (Agent. Mulder @ Jul 5 2008, 07:38 PM) *
very true. and dont worry AG, im not high-jacking this. but people claimed ONE ET from the crash at roswell was alive, and they had contact with it. SO, lets just say, if we found a craft, and an Occupant was inside, they could be the 'rosetta stone' that nigel was talking about. for how to use it. but thats IF they are alive...and willing to talk.


If an alien craft crashed in 47 and I don't think it did and if an alien occupant survived it is highly unlikely they would teach us how to use their technology. Such a quick technological advancement for such a primitive species could result in devastating consequences. It would be like handing over top secret information over to a potential enemy.

I would like to think that advance alien species would have a prime directive (star trek) to avoid cultural pollution and destruction if such an accident were to occur.
Agent. Mulder
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 6 2008, 01:21 AM) *
If an alien craft crashed in 47 and I don't think it did and if an alien occupant survived it is highly unlikely they would teach us how to use their technology. Such a quick technological advancement for such a primitive species could result in devastating consequences. It would be like handing over top secret information over to a potential enemy.

I would like to think that advance alien species would have a prime directive (star trek) to avoid cultural pollution and destruction if such an accident were to occur.


well, id say itd be like giving a gun to a chimp.
even though were already killing each other for no reason, and are destroying the earth. Advanced technology could end up making it quicker.
and thats why i believe if we have one, wed just end up Trying our best to reverse engineer it.
supercar
Maybe UFOs are coming from somewhere we haven't discovered yet. Not necessarily a planet. Maybe UFOs come from somewhere we haven't even dreamed of.
Atheist God
QUOTE (Agent. Mulder @ Jul 5 2008, 08:28 PM) *
well, id say itd be like giving a gun to a chimp.
even though were already killing each other for no reason, and are destroying the earth. Advanced technology could end up making it quicker.
and thats why i believe if we have one, wed just end up Trying our best to reverse engineer it.


We would try our best I just don't think we could get anywhere until we have the right tools for the job which would likely be at least hundreds to thousands of years off.

QUOTE
Maybe UFOs are coming from somewhere we haven't discovered yet. Not necessarily a planet. Maybe UFOs come from somewhere we haven't even dreamed of.


Like another universe perhaps or weird dimension? Perhaps UFO's are really ours from the future and they merely vacation to different times instead of places.... I would like to buy a ticket to the 1960's and check out Woodstock please.
someoldguy
I'm cruising along in my spaceship with my alien buddy over planet Earth and we're just chewing the fat before our next assignment.
.
"So what's the next mission, Irv?" asks my buddy. "We gonna cut up some more of those cow things? Dude, that's so cool!"
"Gee, Harv! What's with you? How do you expect to pass the psych eval for flight school? Keep talking like that and the brass will have you reassigned to earthling anal probes!"
"OK, OK. It's only a joke. So what's the next mission?"
"We, my friend, are going to let the earthlings catch us!"
"Huh? Why do we have to do that?"
"It's orders, dummy. You know how brass are. We're not supposed to question 'em. Besides, it's not all that bad. Didn't you hear Marv's mentalcast back to HQ last week?"
"Duh! I just started flight training school a month ago, you know! I don't have time to watch mentalcasts like you bigshot pilots do! So what did Marv say?"
"Oh, Marv says the earthlings feed him real well. They give him something called strawberry ice cream, which he says is to die for! Incidentally, they make it from the milk of those cow things we've been taking parts from."
"OK, so how the heck do you propose to let the earthlings catch us?"
"HQ says we're going to do a primitive maneuver called a crash landing."
"What the heck is that?"
"Man, don't they teach you guys anything in flight school nowadays? A crash landing is where you force your ship down and make a rough landing, like a crash."
"A crash! Dude, that's nuts! We can't crash in these ships!"
"Hey, you're preaching to the choir here. I know that. But the brass want us to make the earthlings think that we crashed and that they caught us. It's some kind of psychological thing. Earthlings crash all the time in those cute little flying things they go around in. I think they enjoy it, even though it kills 'em. Hey, how dumb is that?"
"He-he. Pretty dumb! These guys aren't much smarter than Zeta Reticuli tree frogs, I hear! But--uh--Irv? We can't really crash can we?"
"Not with a skilled pilot like me! This thing will do zero to Mach 20 in two seconds! Besides, I've taken this baby through every wormhole in three galaxies. You think maneuvering through wormholes is easy? I just make it look easy!"
"OK, and how is HQ gonna know where we are?"
"Harv! Hello! Mentalcasts, you know! Besides, the earthlings will get tired of us after about 60 years and then let us go. What's 60 years? I've taken sick time longer than that!"
"Yeah, okay. So I'm ready whenever you are, I guess."
"Hey, let's go for it then! Banzai!"

And the headlines all over Earth were nothing short of astounding the next morning: "Alien Spacecraft Found in the Gobi Desert by nomads. Mongolia threatens to take over the world."
MID
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 05:21 PM) *
We wouldn't even no where to begin examining because it would be and have to be so far ahead of any theory or technology we have today it would appear to be magical to us.

We can't find clues for anything if we wouldn't know how to start looking for them.

As I said it would be like the ancient Egyptians trying to figure out how a blackberry works without the knowledge or tools necessary. It would be impossible for them to do so because they didn't have things like quantum physics or even electricity for that matter.



You're making assumptions that are seemingly conclusive, but have no basis upon which they can be made, since we haven't seen any such technology and have no idea about it.

However, we do know it would be propulsive, nuclear, or electronic type of technology...maybe even some form of quantum manipulation of matter. At least we know about such things, be they tangible or theoretical. We also know how to look for what we need through the methods of science. Of course, we might be able to decipher something, maybe just a little bit, or maybe alot of it and be amazed by what we discovered, or perhaps, it would be years before we cracked anything.

You just don't know and cannot say.

However, we do have a slight advantage on the Egyptians of old. They didn't have knowledge of atoms or basic electricity. A "blackberry" would be a thing with no purpose to them. A curiosity to discuss, and probably, a forever inert piece of something no one would ever have an idea about.

If we had an alien spacecraft, the very fact that we had one and had identified it gives us quite an advantage on the ancient Egyptians. We wouldn't sit there discussing it. We'd begin using science to probe it and discover its workings.
Elite
im pretty confident that we would be able to reverse engineer it
unless its crazily futuristic
Elite
im pretty confident that we would be able to reverse engineer it
unless its crazily futuristic
someoldguy
About the alien comedy skit...

Please understand that I wasn't making fun of the OP or the thread itself, but of the idea that one country could rule the world because of possessing a UFO. If it's likely too big for Mongolia to handle (with all due respect to Mongols) then I think it would probably be too big for any other country to handle, possibly even the US. (And especially the US in 1947, as an example.)

With aliens I also couldn't see the likelihood of any kind of crash of their crafts, since some witnesses have attested to their phenomenal maneuverability. If they "crashed", then IMO it would be because they crash landed, like the incompetent aliens in my skit.
Aanica
QUOTE (someoldguy @ Jul 6 2008, 05:05 AM) *
I'm cruising along in my spaceship with my alien buddy over planet Earth and we're just chewing the fat before our next assignment.
.
"So what's the next mission, Irv?" asks my buddy. "We gonna cut up some more of those cow things? Dude, that's so cool!"
"Gee, Harv! What's with you? How do you expect to pass the psych eval for flight school? Keep talking like that and the brass will have you reassigned to earthling anal probes!"
"OK, OK. It's only a joke. So what's the next mission?"
"We, my friend, are going to let the earthlings catch us!"
"Huh? Why do we have to do that?"
"It's orders, dummy. You know how brass are. We're not supposed to question 'em. Besides, it's not all that bad. Didn't you hear Marv's mentalcast back to HQ last week?"
"Duh! I just started flight training school a month ago, you know! I don't have time to watch mentalcasts like you bigshot pilots do! So what did Marv say?"
"Oh, Marv says the earthlings feed him real well. They give him something called strawberry ice cream, which he says is to die for! Incidentally, they make it from the milk of those cow things we've been taking parts from."
"OK, so how the heck do you propose to let the earthlings catch us?"
"HQ says we're going to do a primitive maneuver called a crash landing."
"What the heck is that?"
"Man, don't they teach you guys anything in flight school nowadays? A crash landing is where you force your ship down and make a rough landing, like a crash."
"A crash! Dude, that's nuts! We can't crash in these ships!"
"Hey, you're preaching to the choir here. I know that. But the brass want us to make the earthlings think that we crashed and that they caught us. It's some kind of psychological thing. Earthlings crash all the time in those cute little flying things they go around in. I think they enjoy it, even though it kills 'em. Hey, how dumb is that?"
"He-he. Pretty dumb! These guys aren't much smarter than Zeta Reticuli tree frogs, I hear! But--uh--Irv? We can't really crash can we?"
"Not with a skilled pilot like me! This thing will do zero to Mach 20 in two seconds! Besides, I've taken this baby through every wormhole in three galaxies. You think maneuvering through wormholes is easy? I just make it look easy!"
"OK, and how is HQ gonna know where we are?"
"Harv! Hello! Mentalcasts, you know! Besides, the earthlings will get tired of us after about 60 years and then let us go. What's 60 years? I've taken sick time longer than that!"
"Yeah, okay. So I'm ready whenever you are, I guess."
"Hey, let's go for it then! Banzai!"

And the headlines all over Earth were nothing short of astounding the next morning: "Alien Spacecraft Found in the Gobi Desert by nomads. Mongolia threatens to take over the world."
OMG hehhe...LMAO
Atheist God
QUOTE
You're making assumptions that are seemingly conclusive, but have no basis upon which they can be made, since we haven't seen any such technology and have no idea about it.

However, we do know it would be propulsive, nuclear, or electronic type of technology...maybe even some form of quantum manipulation of matter. At least we know about such things, be they tangible or theoretical. We also know how to look for what we need through the methods of science. Of course, we might be able to decipher something, maybe just a little bit, or maybe alot of it and be amazed by what we discovered, or perhaps, it would be years before we cracked anything.


We don't how or what would power such craft and as for nuclear or electrical that's an assumption... The could be using a form of energy we have never thought of before... which they likely do.

QUOTE
You just don't know and cannot say.


I know that whatever they have in regards to technology is far beyond our current comprehension and has to be.

QUOTE
However, we do have a slight advantage on the Egyptians of old. They didn't have knowledge of atoms or basic electricity. A "blackberry" would be a thing with no purpose to them. A curiosity to discuss, and probably, a forever inert piece of something no one would ever have an idea about.


We have the same comprehension that the Egyptians would have had because technology thousands of years ahead of what we currently have would be equally as advance to us as a blackberry is to the ancient Egyptians.

QUOTE
If we had an alien spacecraft, the very fact that we had one and had identified it gives us quite an advantage on the ancient Egyptians. We wouldn't sit there discussing it. We'd begin using science to probe it and discover its workings.


I think if we did capture something alien we would have no idea what it is and despite are arrogance and scientific prowess we would come up empty handed because we simply do not have the tools required to begin figure out what we would be looking at.

===

Technology that far ahead is inconceivable and even most scientists say that despite how far we have come such technology from a much further ahead civilization would be to complex and incomprehensible for us to figure out.
ambelamba
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 5 2008, 12:50 PM) *
If we recovered a UFO first thing first is that it would alter our history forever, not technologically but it would confirm we aren't alone.

Many people assume that we would reverse engineer it and replicate the technology etc but could this really happen? No

The technology would be so far ahead of anything we could conceive it would appear to be magical and far to complex for us to figure out at our surrent stage of development.

An example would be if I gave the ancient Egyptians my blackberry. If I gave them my phone would they be able to figure it out, reverse engineer it and replicate it using their tools?

Finding an advanced craft from a much further ahead civilization would not alter our technological development at all until we had the knowledge and tools to begin to figure out how it works.


No, no, no.

The government will find a million excuses to hide about the wreckage. Even if it crash-lands on Time Square or Disneyland, the government will somehow convince people that it's not from outer space. Life will go on without any full revelation.
MID
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 7 2008, 05:59 AM) *
We don't how or what would power such craft and as for nuclear or electrical that's an assumption... The could be using a form of energy we have never thought of before... which they likely do.



Yes, it is an assumption. However, "propulsive" is not, which is what I said.
You have no idea if they have energies we've never contemplated...nor if they even exist. You are arguing a moot point.
The "could", the "might", is all speculation. We don't know. Is that difficult to undestand?

QUOTE
I know that whatever they have in regards to technology is far beyond our current comprehension and has to be.


No you absolutely do not know this at all.

Maybe...maybe not.



QUOTE
We have the same comprehension that the Egyptians would have had because technology thousands of years ahead of what we currently have would be equally as advance to us as a blackberry is to the ancient Egyptians.


Thousands of years ahead?
How do you know this? There is no correlation nor logic in your argument. We have no idea about aliens. You're making definitive declarations about them as if you've seen them and examined their craft!





QUOTE
I think if we did capture something alien we would have no idea what it is and despite are arrogance and scientific prowess we would come up empty handed because we simply do not have the tools required to begin figure out what we would be looking at


Ditto what I said above.



===

QUOTE
Technology that far ahead is inconceivable and even most scientists say that despite how far we have come such technology from a much further ahead civilization would be to complex and incomprehensible for us to figure out.



Again...how could you know this? No one has EVER encountered alien technology!

Once again, I reiterate, maybe...maybe not.


It seems silly to argue such nonsense further.
Atheist God
QUOTE
Yes, it is an assumption. However, "propulsive" is not, which is what I said.
You have no idea if they have energies we've never contemplated...nor if they even exist. You are arguing a moot point.
The "could", the "might", is all speculation. We don't know. Is that difficult to undestand?


Yes it is difficult to make you understand because you take to much pride in humanities ability to figure things out.

Technology thousands of years ahead of anything we have today 'will' be so complex we would not be able to figure it out.

The technology from such an advanced civilization if it were given to us with no inclination as to what it is would be the equivalent of asking the Egyptians from 5000 years ago to figure out how a cell phone works and to replicate it.

QUOTE
No you absolutely do not know this at all.

Maybe...maybe not.


It will be and has to be.

QUOTE
Thousands of years ahead?
How do you know this? There is no correlation nor logic in your argument. We have no idea about aliens. You're making definitive declarations about them as if you've seen them and examined their craft!


The logic is this.

Anything capable of interstellar/intergalactic flight is using technology that does not exist on Earth.... Just like cell phone technology did not exist in ancient Egypt.

We are talking about a civilization that would many steps ahead of where we are socially and technologically. We are simply incapable of figuring out how such technology would work at our current level technology.
QUOTE
Again...how could you know this? No one has EVER encountered alien technology!

Once again, I reiterate, maybe...maybe not.


I know this because no one has ever examined an alien craft. We could not begin to speculate as to how it works if we ever found one.

Advanced alien technology is INCONCEIVABLE to the human race in the present. There is no point where we could begin to speculate since no one has ever seen such a craft and even if they did it would be so complex we would not even no where to begin to figure out it's inner workings.
Scudbuster
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 7 2008, 08:23 PM) *
I know this because no one has ever examined an alien craft. We could not begin to speculate as to how it works if we ever found one.


Really? So you have been in the government with full access to all those rumored 35 plus levels of compartmented secrecy above the level of Top Secret? Unless you have, I don't think you can really answer that question. Or perhaps you were in Col Phil Corso's shoes all those years he was in the Pentagon and in the White House as part of Eisenhower's staff. His observations were a bit different than your statement that "no one has ever examined" a craft.
Agent. Mulder
QUOTE (Scudbuster @ Jul 8 2008, 01:35 AM) *
Really? So you have been in the government with full access to all those rumored 35 plus levels of compartmented secrecy above the level of Top Secret? Unless you have, I don't think you can really answer that question. Or perhaps you were in Col Phil Corso's shoes all those years he was in the Pentagon and in the White House as part of Eisenhower's staff. His observations were a bit different than your statement that "no one has ever examined" a craft.


apparently he does have access to this. thats why he States that He KNOWS, no ones examined one. how else would one go about making such a Bold claim, without anything to back it up.
he must have access that we dont.
Atheist God
QUOTE
Really? So you have been in the government with full access to all those rumored 35 plus levels of compartmented secrecy above the level of Top Secret? Unless you have, I don't think you can really answer that question. Or perhaps you were in Col Phil Corso's shoes all those years he was in the Pentagon and in the White House as part of Eisenhower's staff. His observations were a bit different than your statement that "no one has ever examined" a craft.


People lie... there is no evidence that an alien craft has ever been recovered by any government.

Sry I want proof not rumors, speculation and theory.... This thread is not about who has what and rumors.... Just merely to point out that 'if' we had a captured alien craft it's technology would be so far beyond our we would be at a loss to figure it out.

QUOTE
apparently he does have access to this. thats why he States that He KNOWS, no ones examined one. how else would one go about making such a Bold claim, without anything to back it up.
he must have access that we dont.


How can one prove a negative? You can't except by the lack of proof that exists to support the claim.

I have yet to be convinced by anything that the US government has captured a UFO. To be honest they could admit to it and I wouldn't believe them, I would only be satisfied if they let the scientific community confirm that it was of other worldly origins.

===

I am confident enough to say that never has an alien craft been captured simply because after years of claims that there have been captured alien ships no proof or even the slightest shred of evidence has been procured that would stand up in court.

I don't expect to change your minds about this because your in too deep into what you believe. That's fine but don't hijack my thread and make it about BS conspiracy theory because you won't change my mind regardless of what you post.
Scudbuster
[quote name='Atheist God'

I am confident enough to say that never has an alien craft been captured simply because after years of claims that there have been captured alien ships no proof or even the slightest shred of evidence has been procured that would stand up in court.

I don't expect to change your minds about this because your in too deep into what you believe. That's fine but don't hijack my thread and make it about BS conspiracy theory because you won't change my mind regardless of what you post.
[/quote]


Unless a new event occurs and the military doesn't get there first, it's not going to happen. All tangible evidence from the past went behind closed doors a long, long, time ago - where it will stay.
Sardukar
I dont think comparing modern science to egyptian way of thinking is a fair comparison at all. Modern science allows us to gain knowledge methodically through set processes. I seriously doubt ancient egyptians used the same techniques we do today to understand the world around us. We also have important fundamental understandings in physics, electronics and "advanced" mathematics (which is BY FAR the most important thing). I'm confident we could gain alot from obtaining an alien space craft. Where as ancient egyptians would gain nothing at all.
Agent. Mulder
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 8 2008, 07:57 AM) *
People lie... there is no evidence that an alien craft has ever been recovered by any government.

Sry I want proof not rumors, speculation and theory.... This thread is not about who has what and rumors.... Just merely to point out that 'if' we had a captured alien craft it's technology would be so far beyond our we would be at a loss to figure it out.


derrrrr.
no govs gonna release the info (even though they apparently did. but were Quick to retract that statement). the gov is that one that lied. and Still lies. so other than roswell, or all the testimonies, you can believe it or not. and i know it IS tough for a no believer to buy into just testimonies on this, so i wont ask you to. because its not the physical evidence you want.

QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 8 2008, 07:57 AM) *
How can one prove a negative? You can't except by the lack of proof that exists to support the claim.
I have yet to be convinced by anything that the US government has captured a UFO. To be honest they could admit to it and I wouldn't believe them, I would only be satisfied if they let the scientific community confirm that it was of other worldly origins.


were not asking you to prove a negative, like god. were talking about what the Army Air Focre said they had recovered.

QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 8 2008, 07:57 AM) *
I am confident enough to say that never has an alien craft been captured simply because after years of claims that there have been captured alien ships no proof or even the slightest shred of evidence has been procured that would stand up in court.
I don't expect to change your minds about this because your in too deep into what you believe. That's fine but don't hijack my thread and make it about BS conspiracy theory because you won't change my mind regardless of what you post.


eyewitness testimonies have never but someone in jail eh?.....have you been living under a rock? if anything, the court MAY be inclined to believe something Was captured. due to the testimonies and the 'evidence' put forth. and the gov acting so sketchy about it over the years.
but youre right, no more talking about roswell. ill just go to the opinion i put forth before. if we captured one, we would try our best to reverse engineer it. and if thats too hard, and we cant duplicate it, wed at least try to turn it on.
someoldguy
I just happened to think of something:

Hey, we're long overdue for a Kecksburg revival!
I wonder what's up with that?
MID
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 7 2008, 08:23 PM) *
Yes it is difficult to make you understand because you take to much pride in humanities ability to figure things out.



And that is problematic how?



As I said:

QUOTE
It seems silly to argue such nonsense further.
Atheist God
QUOTE
It seems silly to argue such nonsense further.


Then why keep replying? No one is making you post here.

===

I am no longer replying to posts about baseless conspiracy theories FYI so you can stop making them, there are other threads dedicated to these not this one.

QUOTE
I dont think comparing modern science to egyptian way of thinking is a fair comparison at all. Modern science allows us to gain knowledge methodically through set processes. I seriously doubt ancient egyptians used the same techniques we do today to understand the world around us. We also have important fundamental understandings in physics, electronics and "advanced" mathematics (which is BY FAR the most important thing). I'm confident we could gain alot from obtaining an alien space craft. Where as ancient egyptians would gain nothing at all.


The Egyptians did use science to figure things out like the wheel for example and mummification... They were a smart bunch for their time.

What people need to understand is that while we do have what we consider to be advanced sciences etc we would be dealing with technology as far ahead of us as we are above the Egyptians. Our science and technology while always moving forward is simply not at a level where we could figure out how something that advanced was made or works.

The comparison is entirely fair and while people think humanity is smart enough to accomplish such a task I just don't think we are yet. I am sure over hundreds of years we would begin to make some headway I just don't think we can now.

So sure we may have some great minds and advanced theories compared to the Egyptians but we would in turn be dealing with theories and minds from a civilization much further ahead then ours in that department.
MID
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 8 2008, 06:07 PM) *
Then why keep replying? No one is making you post here.



True.

But that doesn't explain why you wish to belabor an issue which you cannot substantiate. No one's making you do that either...it's just interesting to me when someone draws an absolute conclusion about something for which there is no experience base to go on.

We simply don't know what we'd find if we ever did encounter an alien species or their artifacts.

Your points are well taken, and I'm sure alot of people probably feel that way.
We have alot of advanced theoretical concepts.

We might find substantiation for them...the missing link through an alien craft...if there was one.
On the other hand, we might find something that appeared to be magic.

That's what I've said, clearly.

You say, it will only be one way...the magic.

I say, it could be either.


What's the point in arguing it? We don't have any idea.
Perhaps you simply want to dominate the thread with your opinions, as if they were facts?

...and insert nonsensical comments about my faith in humanity's ability to figure things out.


I generally get involved with such threads to insert a bit of rationality and critical thought processes into the mix.

When it's obvious that someone is making conclusions without any basis in human experience, I generally attempt to show them that they're using faulty logic.

That's why I'm here.

Now, if you wish to dominate here, and say that 50% of the probablilty of what we'll discover if and when we ever encounter an alien craft is in fact 100% fact...well, be my guest.

You're allowed....but try not to demean rationality when someone puts it in your face!


You have no idea what we'll understand, or what we'll be able to determine...IF we ever do get our hands on an alien craft.


You might be right, and you might be wrong, or...you might be half right.
Who knows?

No one.

Why do you bother arguing it. Just say it's your opinion. That'll do. Declaring it as fact is going to get you countered, which it did.




Scudbuster
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 8 2008, 06:07 PM) *
I am no longer replying to posts about baseless conspiracy theories FYI so you can stop making them, there are other threads dedicated to these not this one.


Baseless conspiracy theories?? Surely you jest. Well, no, I've read enough of your posts to know you're not jesting. Anyway, so what do you call hundreds of first hand testimonies from ex government and ex military personnel? All hot air and lies? I doubt they all are embellishing or fibbing, esp. when the majority of them have nothing to gain, other than the simple desire to talk about what they have seen and experienced throughout their careers.
Atheist God
QUOTE
Baseless conspiracy theories?? Surely you jest. Well, no, I've read enough of your posts to know you're not jesting. Anyway, so what do you call hundreds of first hand testimonies from ex government and ex military personnel? All hot air and lies? I doubt they all are embellishing or fibbing, esp. when the majority of them have nothing to gain, other than the simple desire to talk about what they have seen and experienced throughout their careers.


I am not going to say there aren't UFO's in our skies.... I have witnessed a couple myself.

This being said witness testimony means nothing without substantiation.

You could go to the police with 50 people and say there was a murder but if no body is ever found along with a murder weapon and a suspect your story begins to fall apart because the claim cannot be verified.

Witness testimony means nothing to me without something to back it up simple a that... People can say what they want and they could be telling the truth know one knows but without substantiation witness testimony means nothing regardless of where and who you worked for.

This thread is not about whether we did or did not capture a UFO but what it would be like if we did.... If you can't accept this then **** off.

QUOTE
Why do you bother arguing it. Just say it's your opinion. That'll do. Declaring it as fact is going to get you countered, which it did.


I never said it wasn't just my opinion but the vast majority of scientists who have looked at the issue agree with my assertion that we could not unlock the secrets on an alien craft without first having some knowledge of how it's made or what it does.

People just can't accept the fact that at our current stage of development we could not decipher such advanced technology due to it's complexity. Such technology from an advanced civilization would be so complex we could not figure out simply because we do not have the tools to do so.

===

Obviously if we did capture such a craft an figured it out the technology would be applied to commercial and military applications.

Only 2 conclusions can be drawn

1: We did not ever capture alien technology.

2: We captured it and couldn't figure it out.
Lt_Ripley
QUOTE (Atheist God @ Jul 8 2008, 08:28 PM) *
I am not going to say there aren't UFO's in our skies.... I have witnessed a couple myself.

This being said witness testimony means nothing without substantiation.

You could go to the police with 50 people and say there was a murder but if no body is ever found along with a murder weapon and a suspect your story begins to fall apart because the claim cannot be verified.

Witness testimony means nothing to me without something to back it up simple a that... People can say what they want and they could be telling the truth know one knows but without substantiation witness testimony means nothing regardless of where and who you worked for.

This thread is not about whether we did or did not capture a UFO but what it would be like if we did.... If you can't accept this then **** off.



I never said it wasn't just my opinion but the vast majority of scientists who have looked at the issue agree with my assertion that we could not unlock the secrets on an alien craft without first having some knowledge of how it's made or what it does.

People just can't accept the fact that at our current stage of development we could not decipher such advanced technology due to it's complexity. Such technology from an advanced civilization would be so complex we could not figure out simply because we do not have the tools to do so.

===

Obviously if we did capture such a craft an figured it out the technology would be applied to commercial and military applications.

Only 2 conclusions can be drawn

1: We did not ever capture alien technology.

2: We captured it and couldn't figure it out.


you have 50 people go to the police who witness a murder and find no body or weapon . the police will still admit something happened and with the amount of witness and no live person showing up to dispute probably believe a murder has taken place.

kinda like if 50 people witness a car accident and both drivers drive away and leave no trace and no one got the plate numbers ...... that doesn't mean the 50 people imagined it.


I say #3 - we did get at least one , somewhat figured it out , and now alot of the sightings being seen now especially those triangles , ours. IMO
but who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if the had a coral of them and are trying to figure it out. not one bit. not just our government either.
Atheist God
QUOTE
you have 50 people go to the police who witness a murder and find no body or weapon . the police will still admit something happened and with the amount of witness and no live person showing up to dispute probably believe a murder has taken place.


Still not enough to lay a conviction even if it did occur.... With no evidence the police regardless of what they think will have to disregard the case.

QUOTE
kinda like if 50 people witness a car accident and both drivers drive away and leave no trace and no one got the plate numbers ...... that doesn't mean the 50 people imagined it.


Or maybe people thought they seen an accident but it really wasn't just like the murder scenario.

QUOTE
I say #3 - we did get at least one , somewhat figured it out , and now alot of the sightings being seen now especially those triangles , ours. IMO


Aside from people seeing things in the sky all other assumptions made above are baseless.

QUOTE
but who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if the had a coral of them and are trying to figure it out. not one bit. not just our government either.


I would be surprised.... In fact I think if this were the case there would be to many people involved to ever keep such a secret for so long that evidence would be inevitably leaked.

===

Roswell for example is one of those cases where it could have been a military rocket test gone wrong... People at the time had never seen anything like it and didn't know such things even existed... No one ever considers the possibility that because this was at night, something crashed that no one even knew existed and people blew it out of proportion.... Most of the witness testimony is second hand and most of those who witnessed it never gave testimony till years later....

There is no evidence of an alien crash here folks and without any there is no argument.

I believe that UFO's exist and that some come from worlds beyond ours.... I just don't think a highly advanced craft capable of interstellar/intergalactic flight is made so flawed that it would crash EVER visiting Earth.
DONTEATUS
I agree with AtheistGod on the possibilty of very advanced beings not crashing on earth after a long trip like it must be from where ever they must come from.Lots of If`s there LoL. But some of my ideas of why a large number of sightins are at nite could be that after traveling interstellar space for knows how long,in jet blackness of deep space.One might want to stay on the darkside of the planet to inspect it.after all the fun starts at nite anyway in most lifes.better to see all that neon,and glitter too. just DONTEATUS tongue.gif
chaoszerg
I think if a UFO was recovered I think first it would be used for weapon research and development.
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