Lionel
Mar 6 2004, 07:22 AM
The successes of the recent Mars probes have rekindled interest in the religious significance of planetary exploration, especially the question of how the possible existence of alien civilizations reconciles with Christianity.The plurality of worlds has been long discussed by Christian theologians. Invariably, they conclude that it is a bad idea to underestimate God’s creative powers. But it is still legitimate to ask if such civilizations are consistent with our own understanding and experience of what God is likely to do. Even Einstein defended his theories by noting that, “The Lord is subtle, he is not malicious.” However, we should also remember that our understanding and experience is always incomplete. The Lord may not be malicious, but He sure can be subtle at times! Is there anything in the Bible that can be reconciled with the concept of alien civilizations?
I don’t mean the kind of nonsense that attributes every miracle to an alien technology zapped from UFOs. But at several junctures, we are reminded that we’re not the only intelligent life God created.

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stillcrazy
Mar 6 2004, 09:02 AM
Lionel, Very interesting artical. I have found that Beliefnet can pose some very interesting questions and logical answers to todays enquiring minds.
My own personal beliefs are with God, anything is possible. If He chose to create life on other planets and not reveal them to us earthlings, that is his choice, not ours.
I know that some will knock any belief in anything other than science. And with good reason. Throughout history "religion" has done everything in it's power to stop science and advances. These were man's attempts to halt science, not God's. I fully believe that God encourages discovery of who we are and where we came from, other wise why were we created? What would be the purpose of any animal evolving to our current status?
I know my ideas would get me kicked out of most religions, so that is why I never say I'm a religious person. I have my beliefs, I'll leave it at that.
Talon
Mar 6 2004, 06:20 PM
| QUOTE |
| I know that some will knock any belief in anything other than science. And with good reason. |
TheNeutralBuddhist
Mar 6 2004, 11:50 PM
| QUOTE |
| The successes of the recent Mars probes have rekindled interest in the religious significance of planetary exploration, especially the question of how the possible existence of alien civilizations reconciles with Christianity. |
For one thing, what I have read in the bible, it believes these lights of burning fire in the sky are from Satan.
| QUOTE |
| Is there anything in the Bible that can be reconciled with the concept of alien civilizations? |
If anything the bible denies God having creating anything living outside of earth. "One of the things" the bible states
Isaiah 45
18 For this is what the LORD says-
he who created the heavens,
he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth,
he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty,
but formed it to be inhabited-
he says:
"I am the LORD ,
and there is no other.
This is clearly stating that God said it is only the earth that I have created to inhabited, he didn’t say anything of mars, the moon or anywhere else, but said he created the earth to be inhabited. Isn’t it something we thought we might find life on the moon but what happened when we got there, we found nothing. And the bible says were not going to find it anywhere else.
Another thing, who said it was God that created the universe? For one thing, there is no coherent definition of a God, and Christian theologians and believers don’t agree with each other on the definition of a God, most definitions that have been proposed are incoherent. God is spirit for example, but no one has ever defined what a spirit is in positive terms. More so, there is no agreement among theologians and believers about the moral principles or attributes of this God, everyone believes they have the proper interpretation, and they all disagree with each other and fight with each other, they kill each other in history, the apostle Paul would of been right when he said God is not the author of confusion, but what book do you know has ever caused more confusion in history than the bible or a sacred book believing in a One true God? But overall, there is no evidence for a God, they are beliefs but no evidence, there are arguments, but no evidence. If they were evidence, where is the thief? Remember I come quickly……?
Anyway, back to subject, the person who wrote the article must of most likely believed in a God hints the title. But far as humans being the only creation in the cosmos as a whole, I reject that. There are tons of other dimensions and universes besides ours, and you believe we are the only ones that exist out of the entire cosmos? Besides what the bible said about life existing else where, I believe life does exist elsewhere in the universe. Were all those dimensions and galaxies found and unfound by scientist created deliberately by some source for nothing or no reason at all, but just to sit and be there until the entire universe is destroyed if ever? That would be saying they are useless to the universe if they serve no purpose. And any how, we have proof that happened on earth to show life exist else where; Ufos’. I hope the government doesn’t mean to tell me that every single sighting ever reported was "all" weather balloons. Ok where is the written documentation showing they launched over 2,000 to 3000 and more weather balloons on U.S soil that matches up with the exact location that the sightseers spotted it, and where is the documentation showing where the money came from to go on all these weather balloons. If the government gives Nasa 2 billion dollars for some space project and they spend half of that or the majority, they are still going to have enough money left to produce thousands and thousands of weather balloons across states?
Like ya boy said up top.......I have my beliefs. "That’s why its called beliefs because they can't be Absolutely proven true, its just what you believe."
doomgirl
Mar 7 2004, 01:43 AM
yeah ok
Religion has nothing to do with what is out there in the universe and what we do there, as far as I am concerned Religion is one of the BIGGEST evils in the world to day. Look out how many wars are going on because if it. Can you imagine what will happen if it ever gets off Earth
I would hate to think
Novo
Mar 7 2004, 02:32 AM
dude... honestly... 1. thats a metaphorical statement (or thats how i view it) and two man.. it is brodcasting that he is the only God not the only planet thats inhabited.... *shudders* anyway relegion has nothing to do with this (like she said)
TheNeutralBuddhist
Mar 7 2004, 02:33 AM
| QUOTE |
yeah ok
Religion has nothing to do with what is out there in the universe and what we do there, as far as I am concerned Religion is one of the BIGGEST evils in the world to day. Look out how many wars are going on because if it. Can you imagine what will happen if it ever gets off Earth |
Of course Religion has nothing to do with it, but the writter of the atricle thinks it does....By involving the word.....God. When you say God people get on religion. I was just talking on the article .....

The writer of the article is assuming that this being called God did create the universe, which they have no proof of, and to add to that it has a picture of Jesus on it which is clearly involving religion. I do admit that statement I made had nothing to do with just the earth being inhabited, but in the bible they are statements which clearly says God created nothing else outside of earth with life. Then it starts to contradic itself and it says God created angels and ect. The guy who wrote the article is the one who involved God in all of this, and the whole article is based around, Christianity and its relation to life outside of earth.
stillcrazy
Mar 7 2004, 05:23 AM
Not to start another religious fight, But can anyone tell me why believing in ghost and aliens, is okay, even without proof either exsist, but if someone expresses a belief in a god or a supreme being they are wrong and the bible is wrong. Just wondering.
Dowdy
Mar 7 2004, 07:58 AM
| QUOTE |
| Not to start another religious fight, But can anyone tell me why believing in ghost and aliens, is okay, even without proof either exsist, but if someone expresses a belief in a god or a supreme being they are wrong and the bible is wrong. Just wondering. |
I guess it beacuse no wars have been started because of a persons belief in aliens and god. There is no tension between Ghosts/Aliens and God but in the world we are living in today mention the word god/christianity and allah/muslim, it creates so much tension that people just don't like it anymore and would rather believe in nothing if it means peace.
That's my opinion and i'm sure someone will prove me wrong
TheNeutralBuddhist
Mar 7 2004, 08:11 AM
Ok then......Dowdy.
Then is God the author of confusion?
Right I'm going to take a stand for Religion.
One of the poster's commented on the fact that belief in God mark's you out as a fool or at best naive, whilst it seems that belief in the paranormal is accepted as fact in this board, or at least does not attract the attention a religious subject does. There is only one word used to describe people that act in that fashion and that is:
Hypocrites.
The usual comment used against religion nowadays is the same old one which I believe someone has already flashed around, which is the "religion has been the cause of most major wars." A statement which does not in the vast majority of places hold true. Only 3rd world countries are still involved in religious warfare, and only a fool looks at religion as the cause, rather than the tool of war. Religion unfortunately has been used by powerful, charismatic, and influential men throughout history as a method of directing, subduing, and controlling the uneducated masses, however religion itself has had no play in bringing about wars, famine, class categorisation, etc. all this has been brought upon by men, corrupt, wicked men.
Back onto the subject at hand however, I can see many posts regarding alternate hypotheses involving parallel dimensions and the sort of which may I add is a "THEORY" rather than a fact, with no sort of 3rd person based referencing etc. I will accept that these are opinions shared by the posters, and thus need no sort of referencing, but what I believe to be unexcusable is unwarrented religious bashing. Religion plays a major role in many cultures, what's more there are plenty of religious organisations that provide a service to the greater humannity such as CAFOD, and all sorts of homeless centres that feed the hungry on a daily basis. Bashing down on religion, ANY religion is offensive, and as such should be stopped from occuring. I do not envy the work of the forum moderators who have to read each message with careful deliberation, analysing if that post crosses the all too often, thin, blurry line that separates dialogue from abuse. In any case I think I have milked this quite badly, but I would like the poster that discussed that the Bible is rife with comments about Earth being the only sanctuary of life to post these passages because frankly I have never seen or heard of them. I also hope his next quote isn't as shaky as his previous one.
Talon
Mar 7 2004, 02:53 PM
| QUOTE |
| But can anyone tell me why believing in ghost and aliens, is okay, even without proof either exsist, but if someone expresses a belief in a god or a supreme being they are wrong and the bible is wrong. |
Well, for a start nowhere do they suddenly become wrong (I mean they are wrong, but 50% of the forum still supports them

). As for ghosts, most of the athiests don't actually seem to beleive in them, its seems to be something associated with religion, for those who do at least in their defence they have pictures as 'evidenc' although I personally place these down to lighting or interdimenstional shifts.
As for aliens, they should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as religion. Relgion is based on faith with no scientific evidence to back it up, a way to explain the workings of the world by cave-men before science appeared. Aliens appeared along with science, as peope discoved other planets and came to the logical conclusion that it would be completely ignorant to assume that in a universe with a billion billion stars many of which holding numerous planets, it would be ignorant and egotistic to say 'in all the universe, Earth alone has life'. Statisically, life MUST exist elsewhere.
Talon
Mar 7 2004, 03:00 PM
Now onto religion and wars:
| QUOTE |
| The usual comment used against religion nowadays is the same old one which I believe someone has already flashed around, which is the "religion has been the cause of most major wars." |
Actually the biggest criticism is it has as much evidence backing it as a factual text as The Hobbit.
| QUOTE |
| A statement which does not in the vast majority of places hold true. Only 3rd world countries are still involved in religious warfare, and only a fool looks at religion as the cause, rather than the tool of war. |
Actually outside the 3rd world athiests are still persucuted by religious peeps (only last year in the US some athiest and his daughter had to go into hidding because churches were branding them Satanists, and someone on this site from the US said that he was placed in Counciling for not beleiving in God). Athiests are constantly hounded and told we will 'burn in hell', something someone has told me serval times and on three times people have attempted to convert me to Christianity or Islam. Not exactly nice to say people will be sent to eternal suffering for not holding the same views as yourself.
In Ulster (which last time I checked wasn't in the middle-east) Catholics and Protestants still kill each other, in Scotland the same groups batter each other to death because they support different religions follow different football teams.
Islamic Extremistim has effected Russia, Indonesia, US, UK, Germany,Bosnia, and numerious African states.
And not long ago Jews were being exterminated because they were beleived to be attempting to bring down civilisation, and Left-wingests were being persecuted because they were seeen as being the later's allies. And in groups such as the KKK and the NOI hostility to jews still exists, and in the case of the NOI hostility to anyone who isn't a black muslim.
Cults around the world still use their religion as a reason kill and commit sucide.
Religious cults also persecute people based on sex and race because of the teachings of their religion.
You speak of modern times, completely ignoring that not long ago religion had links with slavery, Inquistition, Crusades
| QUOTE |
| Religion plays a major role in many cultures, what's more there are plenty of religious organisations that provide a service to the greater humannity such as CAFOD, and all sorts of homeless centres that feed the hungry on a daily basis. |
And there are many government instilations and non-religious organisations which do the same, or better, I fail to see your point. What I do see however is Guranga Monks on Glasgows streets conning pensioners out of their money to help produce 'education' material i.e. religious propoganda.
Talon I appreciate your lengthy opinion but let's face it mate most of the "religious" confrontations that you mentioned can be explained outside of religion. For example: N.Ireland. In N. Ireland it just happens that the Irish zealots that are trying to reclaim land which they believe to be theirs are killing protestants because most Irish are Catholics. This means that on your average scale a protestant in N.Ireland is more than likely English, or Scottish or whatever other than Irish. So, it doesn't take a brain the size of Manchester to realise that if you blow up a Protestant district in N.Ireland there is a BIG chance that they are not Irish. The same can be argued with Jews. Hitler was exterminating them because his hatred extended to the fact that Jews as a collective had MOST of the power in Germany, hey some might argue most of the free world. So he wasn't killing them because his views were different to their views, he killed them in what can be categorised as a power struggle. As far as Islamic fundementalism goes it can be summarised by stating that powerful men with hidden agendas make use of Religion as a brainwashing mechanism to coerce the masses into their schemes. As far as religion with ties into the inquisition you must realise that it came as a consequence of a corrupt pontifice trying to bring down all deviants which affected society. It's all politics. With regards to the crusades and the like, mate, that was a long time ago. My great great grandfather was a major in the British Empire, chances are that he was in some godforsaken hole bringing that area's indigenous population under the tyranny of our once great British Empire. You don't see me beating myself about it do you?
Talon
Mar 7 2004, 04:04 PM
First off, why are the North Irish who want to rejoin Irland 'zeolots', yet those who want to remain in Britain are not? Lets remember North Ireland is the Irish's land, most of the unionists there are descended from English who settled there over time, I think its unfair that a population of imigrants should be allowed to dictat to the locals how the country is run (I know it happened with the Empire, and is still happening in the US, but lets just stick to Ireland for the mo). Although North Irish anti-uniuonst movements are funded by elements in the south and the US, the vast majority of its activists are North Irish.
Anyway, onto religion, simply put those events would not have happened without religion.
As for the Jews contolling Germany, in truth overall government and military institions were actually still controlled by christian German's, although the Jewish German's had control over a lot of banks and sections of the economy. Either way though, if not for religion Hitler would have just seen the Jews as German, and not a group to be exterminated.
Yeah I'll agree with you with regards to the collectivitsm placed on the Jews by Hitler had a religious inclination, however their religion was not a causing factor with regards to the war, it wasn't their distinct views that made Hitler despise them.
Talon
Mar 7 2004, 04:30 PM
Not really, Hitler hated them because at since the mid-19th century Jews had been blamed for econoic problems in numerous mainland European countries, due to many Jews being own major banks. Not all jews where rich, but Hitler grew up being taught the sterotype that Jews were wealthy whilst German's were starving and unemployed.
Furthermore after Germany's military surendered in WW1, the military had left it to the Democractic government to sign the treaty and so arose the myth that it was the Socialists who had led German to ruin. At the time many leading Socialists were Jews.
Lastly Hitler was a pan-German, he beleived German's to be superior racially to others. The Jews, although a religious group and saw themselves as German, were seen as immagrants, and since they were seen as the route of economic problems they were seen as the main enemy of Germany.
As such it wasn't there views Hitler hated, it was Historical and racial views he held which made him hate them.
Talon
Mar 7 2004, 04:32 PM
Wait, just notocied you said 'wasn't'
wunarmdscissor
Mar 7 2004, 05:56 PM
| QUOTE |
| appreciate your lengthy opinion but let's face it mate most of the "religious" confrontations that you mentioned can be explained outside of religion. For example: N.Ireland. In N. Ireland it just happens that the Irish zealots that are trying to reclaim land which they believe to be theirs are killing protestants because most Irish are Catholics. This means that on your average scale a protestant in N.Ireland is more than likely English, or Scottish or whatever other than Irish. So, it doesn't take a brain the size of Manchester to realise that if you blow up a Protestant district in N.Ireland there is a BIG chance that they are not Irish. |
Vox im sorry but how many foriegners do u believe are living in northern ireland?
If u understood the current situation in northern ireland you would realse that. Most of the people killed in nothern ireland are Irish ok thats just fact. There are hundreds of thousands of protestant Irish in N.ireland. Your confusing the republic of ireland an N.ireland.
I want to take issue with the comment "irish zealots" explain that please??
The problems are secterian, completly religious trust me. We have the same problems here. Im talking from experience it has nothiing to do with indpendance anymore, the hatred is sectarian.
Here in Scotland Celtic football club played Rangers Football Club today and if u saw that and the aftermath you'd understand that it is all about sectarianism.
Phantom
Mar 7 2004, 05:58 PM
This thread has gone waaaaaaaay off topic again. After ampel warnings some members still seem to get their kicks out of derailing good topics.
Warnings will be issued now and posting abilities will be suspended for an amount of time.
Thread will remain open, however I expect the next post to be on topic.
I believe that angels live on other planets and that the UFO's that many claim to
have seen are in fact not alien spacecraft but 'angelic spacecraft'.
Biblical assertions? Genesis 5:24 says that Enoch 'walked with God, and he was not for God took him'. In every other 'begat' it refers to the person as 'died'. Was Enoch 'taken' as it says? 2nd Kings 2:11 talks about Elijah being taken up
in a whirlwind with a 'chariot of fire and horses of fire'. Was he in fact taken up in an angelic UFO? Whirlwind.........hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder if any crop circles
were created that day!
are we back on topic now?
Daughter of the Nine Moons
Mar 7 2004, 10:01 PM
Very interesting article Lionel.
To me it is summed up in the following quote:
....But it is certainly intriguing to read this with alien civilizations in mind. Perhaps it is not so far-fetched to see the second person of the trinity, the Word who was present in the beginning, coming to lay down His life and take it up again not only as the son of man but also as a child of other races....
Dot9m
Vox
Mar 10 2004, 09:37 PM
I am sorry, the powers that be are correct, I did start going off in a tangent. Anyway back to the topic at hand, there should be no reason to not believe that God did not create other civilliasations, if you part from the concept that...
God created the universe.
and-
God is all powerful.
Now, obviously if someone does not believe in God, then that kinda throws a spanner into the works so to speak. However if you believe those first two ideas, then you can pretty much associate what's to come and what is around us to God.
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