The war in heaven hasn't ended. It is still being fought here on Earth.

The idea of the war is that.

God wants us to be good by chose.


Satan wants us to be good by force.


So any religion that lets you choose is probable a good one.


Any religion that tries to make you be good is probable a bad one.


Any ideas on this.

sorry I put this in the wrong thread can someone move it please.

Satan probably made you do it.

No I just didn't look where I was at.

I vote with the Satan theory.

This is so funny. I wonder why they don't move it. Maybe you should just retype it in the correct place and they'll delete this one.

I should talk. I messed up and couldn't remember my password and didn't get the email notification within the amount of time specified so I kept doing it and ended up with a few notifications, got all frustrated and registered again under a new name and email address and now every time I post a reply I get an email notification that I posted a reply. It's very confusing.

Satan made you not look.



I thought Satan wanted us to be bad. If God wants us to be good by choice why does he threaten with hell. That doesn't sound like choice to me.

There are always consequences to your behavior whether good or bad. If you send negative energy out you get negative energy back. Same with positive. There is no force about it that is the way of the Universe.
My Gods don't force to me to do anything the choice is mine. I guess that makes my religion the best.

Daniel posts based on the LDS view of Satan. This was recently explained by Bee Eff here:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t&p=2419270

Hope that helps.

Actually even by LDS beliefs God wants us to realize that we can't be good enough, and were never meant to be good enough on our own.

a little sef awareness goes along way.some of the best folks are not religious...ironically...

My bottle of Smirnoff Ice Raspberry Burst told me different!


*hic*

Actually, according to our beliefs we will probably not achieve this during this life. It is entirely possible that someone could achieve this, Christ did. Such is highly improbable for another though.

I didn't say anything about being good enough.

.

I tried the smile and the whole world smiles thingy for a year didn't work

You people!! You people are so mean! But I have to admit it is funny in a twisted sort of way.

My bro, Jesus said, as I can do so will you, even better.

You are correct aabout Those who have inrited A world to create, Have already recieeved their world, But time does not exist in Spirit world, only on Earth.

So the waite is not as long as it may seem.

Love Omnaka

That's beautiful.

Thank you for that clarification. Does this mean that LDS do not believe Jesus is God? I keep hearing different answers on this question, so I'm interested in your take on it. I've heard that LDS believe Jesus is a son of God, not THE Son of God and definitely NOT God, and I've also heard that LDS believe that Jesus IS The Son of God and is God.





Yes, you did.

Hi Iam. I'm just wondering if it really matters. If nothing else Jesus was a really good man. The next saint I can see that walked this earth is Sister Teresa. He just keeps showing us that we can be one of those people, a saint I mean. Someone that thinks more about other people, or the big picture, than ourselves. Not many of us are ready for it though. Maybe He is just occasionally showing us it's still possible.

Religion is an evil creation.
The concept of god is a blasphemy against the truth.
God is an evil demon.

I'm sorry, but I'm having great trouble with understanding why Satan would want us to be good, whether by choice or by force.

How can a concept (idea) be an evil demon? Isn't "truth" a concept? Isn't "good" an idea?

The point to the statement is that God does not want you to come and seek him out of fear.

Satan (the Adversary) wants you to come to God out of fear, because this is a limited path to God. You cant understand God by coming to him out of fear. Just another road block that the Adversary has placed in the human pathway of seeking spirituality. When you seek out of fear, you will follow the ideas of burning in hell. Fear lowers your vibration, so its a win for the Adversary. You might not burn in 'hell' but your vibration dims because you are missing the point of the nature of God, which is love, pure love. The Adversary KNOWS that love is the best way to raise a vibration, so many seeds have been planted to make people think they should FEAR God....the Old Testament in some places is very good at this. If you are seeking our of fear that you wont be ascended into a higher vibration your missing the point, which is finding your nature, your nature is made by love. The Adversary hopes to lead you down a path where you dont seek spirituality at all.....but if you do seek it, he would prefer it be out of fear for God, for he cant wait to help your mind understand what a mean God you have.

Soooo then why are you all (the LDS) bothering to try???

And I don't 'have it wrong'.
Whatever 'it' is, I don't have it wrong. I'm exactly where I need to be in my Spiritual life.

Great Post virgo!

Love Omnaaka

+

I believe that in this case trying is almost the same as doing.

If god doesn't want us to be 'forced' into being 'good', why does the Bible keep telling us all the bad stuff that's going to happen if we're not?
Sounds like bribery if ever I heard it.

maybe

I would love to see a reference for that!

QUOTE (Sthenno @ Aug 9 2008, 09:52 PM) *
If god doesn't want us to be 'forced' into being 'good', why does the Bible keep telling us all the bad stuff that's going to happen if we're not?
Sounds like bribery if ever I heard it.


!MAYBE!?!

me too this is just what I got from the bible stories of Christ and his sermons. I may have it wrong. Probable do.

Bribery or threat or both.

Do or do not, there is no try-Yoda

So are you stating that you believe The Bible/God/Jesus is/are Bribing and THREATENING us to MAKE us be 'good' (conform)?
In your opening statement/question you wrote: "God wants us to be good by chose (sic). Satan wants us to be good by force. (which is very confusing to me the way it is stated, which actually could be taken to mean God and Satan are one in the same...)

they have or had the same objective but different ways to get there.

Which is...?

Satan would be working for God...so umm yeah God is trying to trick you into being good and bad at the same time.


How much of this stuff you think you know about Satan and a war in heaven is actually supported by something other then your imagination and decades of movies like Constantine and End of Days....

Revelations.

To have all souls return to heaven and God.


The difference is that Lucifer wanted to force everyone to be good.

God wanted everyone to choose for themselves to be good or bad.


The war in heaven by the way was a debate(I believe) not combat.

Has this whole conversation just confuzzled the daylights out of anyone else but me?

I thought Lucifer wanted everyone to be BAD?

Don't worry, I'm completely bewildered myself.

Danielost, you are the King of the Non-Answer.

Since Lucifer got kicked out and renamed Satan he wants us to be bad true or good whatever it takes to keep us from going home.

That just made it
a lot.
more.
confusing.



I have found this is common with members of the LDS faith.
Half my Family is LDS, I love them, but their 'around the bush beating' is an art form.

May I recommend to anyone interested: Mormon America: The Power and the Promise, by Richard N. Ostling and Joan K. Ostling. The best book I've read so far that has no agenda to support either for or against, just the info.

Some of us still call him St. Lucifer and never bought that whole Satan thing...

Interesting point, but is there any other way to actually do it, if you were to do the whole heaven and hell thing.

Please understand the terms punishment and reinforcement when reading this. Punishment is a stimulus or event the presentation of which reduces the probability of a behavior. Reinforcement is a stimulus or event the presentation of which increases the probability of a behavior.

Do some research into "Differential Reinforcement", particularly DRO. Proper behaviors are reinforced while improper behaviors are not. Often an effective method of DRO includes punishing improper behavior.

Punishment must be instant and severe to be effective.

When approaching the concept of shaping in relation to an entire species, I do not believe that the consequences stated in the Bible are beyond acceptable rationale.

I believe many consequences mentioned are natural consequences that occur as a result of such behavior, the attribution to God is a man made error many times.

All we have is the Bible, the record of interaction between God and Man combined with the events surrounding this, documented by various scribes and Prophets, often following a period of oral recitation. Given psychological research into the accuracy of repeated recitation over time, I doubt that the Bible is always 100% reliable in its text. The Bible is, imo, "is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16)", but this does not imply it is always accurate. All of the Bible was written by men, after the fact, not at the time of communication.

Are the descriptions of heaven and hell literal or metaphorical? The question implies that the states of heaven and hell are external in nature, it is entirely possible that the state of heaven and the state of hell are more internal in nature. Also, depending on the possibility realized through God, perhaps the absence of his aid/presence is indeed "hell".

Understand the process of shaping.

Shaping is the differential reinforcement of successive approximations.

With the LDS we have eternity to achieve perfection, this life is simply a small portion of a whole. I will strive to be as close to the goal as possible, regardless of if I achieve the goal here or not.


Good for you.


You will go where you choose to be. According to LDS theology there is a place set aside for everyone in the kingdom of God. You will go where you truly wish to go.

So True!

Love Omnaka