BOISE, Idaho (AP) -- After her older brother was shot in the head, his remains were burned in front of her, an 8-year-old girl told a police officer in a gut-wrenching tape played for jurors deciding whether a convicted sex offender should die for his crimes.
Joseph Edward Duncan III stalked the Groene family and killed four of its five members.
Shasta Groene spoke to Coeur d'Alene police Officer Shane Avriett on July 2, 2005, shortly after she was rescued from weeks of torture and despair.

Avriett testified Thursday that he turned on his vehicle's dashboard-mounted video camera, with the camera pointed away from Shasta, and recorded her talking about her ordeal.

When Avriett asked where her 9-year-old brother Dylan was, she told him, "in heaven ... there may be some evidence down in the Lolo forest, because that's where we were."

She cried as she told Avriett how Joseph Edward Duncan III shot her brother in the stomach at a campsite, then shot him again in the head and burned the body.

"He's killed way a lot more people that you don't even know about," Shasta told the officer. "He killed Dylan."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/15/duncan...ref=mpstoryview

*I"m just shocked as to why there are ANY questions as to whether this freak should get the death penalty or not. He meets the requirements for death penalty- he over meets that. Some crimes scream it!! His past records (S as in plural) were rape, child molestation to car theft, then he's accused of murdering an entire family of 4 just to satisfy is "fantasies." Those fantasies were to abduct two of the children of the family he massacred use them as his sexual toys/ playthings, then he murders the boy when he's through with him in FRONT of his little sister..

and another thing.. what's this ****face doing not behind bars to begin with.. considering his record why in hell was he even let loose on the streets.. it should be quite apparent that some types of crimes will escalate.. How could any parole board/Judge not know this, or take this in consideration?
Molestation, to rape, to car theft, to mass murder, to more sexual assault on children to another murder..

Wow. ****.

I'm glad you've brought this story to the forums. I've often wondered about the follow up on this case with this family. Yes. If anyone deserves to die, it's this predator. Fantasies? He did it to fulfill his fantasies? OMG.

That's exactly what he said his quote "fantasy." to full fill his fantasies-
He stalked this family a while before actually deciding to commit murder on the three eldest members. The mother, fiance, and oldest son which was only 14. Then he kidnapped the two youngest to satisfy those sick disturbed animus fantasy's of his.. torturing the two, using them both as objects of his sexual appetite. Then if that's not enough, when he's through with the boy, he kills him in front of his sister..

really disturbing/sickening. unreal.

OMG, this poor little girl, having to witness the killing of her family and burning of her brother right in front of her. And from her statement "I taught him how to love", sounds like sexual molestion to me. As sunni said, why was this degenerate even out on the streets, and how the hell could the state let him slip through the system. I've always said the judicial system sucks, and this is another prime example of it. The sad thing is that now this little one has to re-live this horrible experience all over.

I'm sure there's an army of liberals out there willing to defend him.

What?

sorry, I said...
I'm sure there's an army of liberals out there willing to defend him.

So, liberals love murderers?

This is why I agree with the death penalty. Where's the justice anymore? They continue to allow these sick fiends out, and they continue doing this, time and time again. We are lucky if a rapist or murder even SERVES the whole sentence. He just gets out on parole. Parole never works. Why can't people (judges, lawyers, etc) SEE that?

So much for protecting our children.

Liberals always defend offenders. Equal rights, & all that.

Our system is based on the notion that you are innocent until proven guilty. Sorry, everyone gets equal rights. Even people accused of the worst crimes imaginable. We cannot live in the Macarthy or Salem style justice system, where simple accusations are enough evidence to jail or destroy a person. The system is in place to try and prevent that sort of thing. While it has it's huge flaws, the alternatives are far, far worse.

The frustration that comes with seeing a criminal released should be tempered with the times that we do not see that. But those sorts of stories don't get published. In a world of sensationalist news media, we'll only see the ones that make us twitch and dance with rage.

They sure don't like killing them.
I'm sure some do love em...
look at this dizzy bint...with

John Wayne Gacy also known as The Killer Clown.
He was convicted and later executed for the rape and murder of 33 boys and young men between 1972 and his arrest in 1978.




John Gacy and Karen Conti, one of his attorneys.
"Perhaps the study of his brain might explain why John committed these crimes and make society reconsider executing a man that may have been physiologically incapable of moral judgment."

Karen Conti

©2003 Illinois Coalition to Abolish The Death Penalty.

IMO, I do not believe sex offenders (esp. of children) rapists, or murders should have rights. They pretty much throw their rights out the window when they rape, molest, or murder anyone.

Just cause they're against the death penalty doesn't mean they want convicted rapists and killers let free. Most of them probably want em locked up for the rest of their days. The reasons against the death penalty usually don't have anything to do with "feeling bad" for the felons.

It ain't a liberal thing.

Until you determine guilt, and prove it, how do you decide who gets rights, and who doesn't? Just because a person is thought to have commited a crime, doesn't make it so. That's why everyone gets rights. Because until it's proven they've done something, they are the same as everyone else. We can't remove rights when someone's accused. That's basically saying that anyone who's suspected of a crime is guilty.

The current incarnation of the justice system, while flawed, is certainly better than years past.

I'm sure this post does have a point...
I'm sure...

Maybe you can be a liberal and still be for the death Penalty?
Probably the exception to the rule though.

I was referring to cases where they have PROVEN evidence of rape and/or murder. Of course one shouldn't be put to death of a supposed conviction.

I also meant to mention, the release of parolees is so high because the prisons are getting full of convicts. It's like the only ones they seem to release have all been convicted of a proven crime, serious crimes. Liberals seem to think there is a cure to what these sickos do to others.


The death penalty is the only sure-fire way of keeping these sickos out of our communities, and away from people they will harm.

I think we can all agree that a person should be proven without a reasonable doubt before the death penalty is given. But, like in this case with Duncan.. it's nonsense.. and did NOT have to happen. This man, apparently was committing atrocious violent crimes even before this.. and he was LET OUT.. there's a problem here.. a big one. IMO, he deserved life (no parole) for the rape, molestation, carjacking alone.. yet he gets OUT again to commit even worse more violent acts.. just baffling. I guess that druggie next to him poses a more violent threat so he stays..

i happen to be a liberal, but in cases like this as long as there is evidence of the crime, KILL THE B...ST...D
I'll even pull the switch for you....
serial killers are proven recidivists, there's no rehab for them and letting them live is too much a risk to the rest of the community.
it's not like a drive by shooting motivated by money, its done for pleasure and therefore will never stop.
and I'm the first to get up and shout about equal rights. but this price is too high.
and if I EVER became a monster like this, I WOULD WANT THE STATE TO KILL ME..

Maybe he's rich enough to pay his way out. Who knows. He's out. A few more murders should do the trick.

IF this doesn't get any worse:

If the offender/defendant decides to represent himself (which he's planning on,) he gets to cross-examine Shasta (his child victim) in court--

http://shasta-groene-news.newslib.com/story/4996-2434083/

Idaho Jury hears Shasta in court:
http://shasta-groene-news.newslib.com/story/4996-2434089/


Excerpts provided in court suggest Duncan directed the children to write them, lacing them with strange lies.

“We might see you again and we might not if we decide to go with him we will go see Eminem and get $1,000,000, and we already have $1,000,000 but we figured the $1,000,000 was fake,” read one from Dylan to his father. “But that does not matter what matters to me is getting out of here and going home to you see you have a doghter (sic) and son who love you very, very, much.” Others were just terribly sad: “Dear Dad, this is Dylan we are still alive we are OK and we know what happened to Mom, Mark and Slade and I’m sorry you had to loose (sic) a son and an exwife and I’m sorry we had to be taken away from you and I miss you.” Coeur d’Alene police Officer Shane Avriett, the first officer to talk to Shasta after she was rescued, said that once she was sitting in the front seat of his patrol car, she seemed to want to “vent.” He told the jury he turned on the vehicle’s dashboard-mounted video camera, with the camera pointed away from Shasta, and recorded her comments, offered in a little girl voice."

Idaho jury hears horrid details of family murders
By Rebecca Boone - 08/14/2008

BOISE, Idaho — The crime was meticulously planned, the killer choreographing every step from his surveillance of the doomed north Idaho family to the videotaped torture of one of his youngest victims.

Yet something as simple as a locked back door, or fiercer family dogs, might have turned Joseph Edward Duncan III away.

Duncan’s federal sentencing hearing opened Wednesday with U.S. Attorney Thomas Moss laying out the gruesome details of how Duncan decimated the Groene family, all because he wanted to “live out his fantasy” and exact a terrible revenge on society for perceived wrongs.

Moss told jurors they’d have to watch video footage of the sadistic sexual torture of 9-year-old Dylan Groene, filmed shortly before Duncan killed him.

Duncan forced then-8-year-old Shasta Groene, the sole survivor, to watch that video and made her watch — standing so close her clothes were spattered by blood — as he killed her brother, jurors were told.

Duncan pleaded guilty in December to 10 federal charges in the 2005 kidnapping of Shasta and Dylan Groene and Dylan’s murder. Three of those charges carry the death penalty, and the jury must decide if he will spend life in prison without parole or be executed for his crimes.

*
Duncan is representing himself. He told the jury Wednesday that most of what Moss said was fair and accurate “up to the point of what occurred at the campground.” Duncan said he would testify so he could answer any questions and try to “clarify things.” The defendant’s standby legal counsel, Judy Clarke, has said Duncan doesn’t plan to offer any mitigation, such as evidence of his own traumatic childhood. He has reached an agreement with prosecutors so Shasta won’t have to testify during the first phase of the hearing. Instead, her videotaped statements to police will tell her story.

It’s not yet known if Shasta will choose to offer a victim impact statement later.

Duncan’s past is littered with arrests and prison time for crimes ranging from car theft to rape and molestation. He is suspected in the 1996 slayings of two half-sisters from Seattle, and is charged with the 1997 killing of a young boy in Riverside County, Calif.

The broad outlines of this case are well known — in May 2005, Duncan broke into the Groene family’s Coeur d’Alene home, fatally bludgeoning 13-year-old Slade Groene, his mother Brenda Groene and her boyfriend Mark McKenzie before abducting Shasta and Dylan. Duncan has already been convicted in state court for those three murders; the federal case concerns the crimes against Shasta and Dylan.

The details Moss described left jurors looking stricken, covering their mouths and shaking their heads.

Still, the prosecution’s theory of Duncan’s motive is vague, with Moss citing revenge and sex as two motivators.

(con't) sigh
http://shasta-groene-news.newslib.com/story/4996-2434089/

Nope, I'm a Fiscal Conservative, and Social Liberal. And I'm fully for the Death Penalty.

And I know plenty of others who are too. *shrug*

So, do you think liberals in general want to let him go? Just keep in incarcerated for the rest of his life? I'm sure there's something to your blanket statement.

I'm glad that liberals are the cause of all our woes. Seriously.

As for proven evidence of murder, do you mean any murder? As for people getting released from prisons, sure. It ain't the liberals that do these things though. It's the justice system. That's how it works. You do the crime, you do the time. The more serious the crime, the more time you're supposed to do. What about all the people in there that have life? You don't hear about them. While it is a crying shame that some dangerous people are released back into the population, it's not the fault of liberals. No one's up screaming that murderers shouldn't serve time.

As someone who agrees with the death penalty, but does a fair bit of research on this subject, STOP. Yes, an occasional killer is released. He makes the news, and suddenly everyone is afraid/enraged. Look at the countless people who aren't released. And have you looked at parole? Seriously? There's quite a large percentage of parolees that do their time, and then get on with their life. Once a criminal does not mean always. People are young and hey, they make mistakes.

Stop using the exception to the rule to try and show that the rule is broken.

I agree on this point. Our prisons are overcrowded, and the reason is that they have far too many nonviolent criminals serving hard time. As for the sentencing, I'd probably agree, but I don't have the court documents, evidence, and the like in front of me. *shrug* If I knew more than just a couple of words on a page, I'd have a better idea of why he was out. Likely? I agree. But hey, details are important.

It's a great idea. Other than the possible damage to the child, defending yourself is the quickets way to worst sentence possible. No one should ever defend themselves. In this case? I hope he does. Though it'll make me very sad for the child.

I agree, The justice system has alot to do with it. Life in jail (no parole) scares me too because one that gets life with no parole, means another one just got released back into the public. They are releasing more than they are sentencing a harsh sentence, I think anyway.

Releasing after a lengthy prison term. Not everyone released is just another murder waiting to happen though. I really recommend doing some research on the subject, the results are surprising.

yeah well, my statement still stands.. (clue: I didn't say all)
I'm sure there's an army of liberals out there willing to defend him.

In fact, I bet some dizzy liberal women write love letters to him.

Not all of them are released after a lengthy prison term. Some are released after only serving under a year.

No. They just don't want to execute them.The majority don't anyway.

The thing is some people deserve to die.

While there is a vast difference between those who commit crimes that are initiated by environmental/socio/eco factors.. and those who commit crimes because of inter-personal/Psy/mental factors- The latter are far more likely to become recidivist - while commit crimes that escalate in nature & intensity and its' consistency- Such as this Duncun warp. Here was the issue about the "three strikes and you're out rule" based on who's who in the criminal bank- Weeding out those who pose the larger/more violent threats, from those who don't- Assuming one would express this tendency for "un-treatable" criminal behavior by their repetitive criminal nature (3x.)
Those who apparently are not inclined to commit such violent crimes wont.. those who will, WILL, it's that simple. The problem is (how I see it) too many of those who are exhibiting these tendencies for violent crimes are being released and/ or receiving little or no time.. when the warnings are significantly clear as nose on my face.

Political affiliation. The new racism.

Liberals. They want to eat your babies. They are everything wrong with the world! When high on cocaine, they're immune to bullets!

It really isn't just that simply. Or clear.

Absolutely. See: Exception to the rule.

Hey, I couldn't agree more. Though most liberals have a variety of reasons for wanting them executed. The most common one I've heard? They have a problem with who decides it.

What about this case?
Do you think Joseph Edward Duncan III should be executed?

If someone can't read whether or not a person has potential for repeating/ while escalating the nature of their violent crimes by looking at their history then they're blind! This guy Duncan, for example: rape, molestation, carjacking, charged for murder in CA. but never convicted, etc,. questionable suspect to other murders but never investigated further- This is before the four murders & other charges he's being charged with now... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this freak should have never been free. NEVER.

Some are this clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Couey

That guy also deserves death. Maybe in 15 years, they will finally execute him.

I found this part particularly disturbing: Couey has an extensive criminal record that includes 24 arrests for burglary, carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, and indecent exposure. In 1991, he was arrested in Kissimmee on a charge of fondling a five-year-old child. During a house burglary in 1978, Couey was accused of grabbing a girl in her bedroom, placing his hand over her mouth, and kissing her. Couey was sentenced to 10 years in prison but was paroled in 1980. Because of the lenient laws governing child molesters at that time, Couey was released early.

If he had been KEPT in jail, Jessica Lunsford would be alive today. I stand by my belief that the death penalty is the only true way of getting rid of these people. Serving a little bit a jail time stops them only while they are in jail. They will continue to be let out, after all, they are "cured" right??

15 years? PFFFT.

OMFG.. He'll forget what he's in there for by 15 years.. society will have forgotten the crime in 10 years, Jessica Lunsford will be an unknown name in 5 years.. He'll be suffering from dementia or something first..
Makes me furious. When it's so blatantly obvious there's a monster- as in these cases, why wait? If its so apparent they committed these crimes, why all the appeals.. it's ludicrous. Fry the b****** Tonight. Lethalize him today, gas his *** now!! not next week, not in 15 years.

It takes them awhile to execute anyone. At least 10-15 years.

Based on gut reaction, Yep. Absolutely. Unless the video and court data are radically different from what's been reported.

O I'm aware, alright. Many die of old age waiting.. Like Henry Lee Lucas.. Ed Gein.. etc,.

Problem is, it's just a little laundry list. You don't actually get to see any of the details of it. All we get are Two the 3 word blurbs about it. I mean I agree. People who commit the worst sort of crimes shouldn't' be wandering around. And for the most part? They aren't. And yeah, there are tragedies like this. And it's tears your ****ing heart out. But a lot of the tragedie cases aren't always so cut and dry with the perps.

Hey, in this case, it might have been just that simple looking. All we've got are a couple of news articles that are obviously going to be a bit biased. And hey, I'm biased with em. I think the b****** should fry.

And that's why laws were changed.


You do know they're not just given a pat on the *** and a farewell speech right? And not just normal parole...

Horrific video and testimony marks Duncan's penalty hearing
WARNING:
Some of the descriptions in this story are graphic and disturbing. Discretion is advised.

http://www.komonews.com/news/26966129.html

see also:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/loca...ebduncan15.html

So, he kills Dylan then to "Dennys" to eat as if nothing ever even happened..

So, here is a copy of the letter that that sick twist Duncan had 9 year old Dylan write to Shasta when thinking he was gonna return home..

http://blogs.kansascity.com/photos/uncateg...8/15/letter.jpg



*to add;
Then, he's (Duncan) snoring so loud in court over the intercom, it could be heard all through out the courtroom. OMFG.. does this get any less disgusting-


Some more info.. Still shots from security camera/ PHOTOS of Shasta and Dylan
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/14/...in4351726.shtml

Murder Weapon- with news coverage covering trial: "Dylan: I want to go home."
http://www.2news.tv/news/27034674.html