UM-Bot
Mar 21 2004, 11:14 AM
If there's one thing Stephen Unwin is certain about, it's that he can't be sure of anything. But as a scientist and a career odds-maker, Unwin is willing to calculate the probability of just about anything, including what may be the biggest mystery ever: Does God exist? In The Probability of God: A Simple Calculation That Proves the Ultimate Truth, the professional uncertainty analyst -- he assesses risk involved in operating a major enterprise such as a chemical plant -- uses an actual mathematical theorem to determine the probability that there is a God. For evidence, he plugs in numerical values depicting the persuasiveness of points debated for eons, such as the existence of good or evil, miracles and religious experiences. Using what he calls "a pragmatic, no-nonsense, bottom-line, results-oriented analysis," Unwin comes up with his own answer.
Turns out, there is a 67 percent, or about 2-to-1, probability of God's existence, a number that "favors the existence of God, but not that compellingly," Unwin, who will speak and sign copies of his book at Sam Weller Books next week, said in a telephone interview from his home in Ohio. "I would have been surprised if it'd been near zero or 100," he said, though "If you listen to atheists or theists, you would think it was closer to one of those numbers."

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Salt Lake Tribune
Xenojjin
Mar 21 2004, 02:53 PM
PsychicPenguin
Mar 21 2004, 03:01 PM
| QUOTE |
| He has received angry letters against positions he doesn't even support. Believers call him an atheist and atheists say he is trying to push religion through pseudo-science. |
One reason why you should never mess with this subject
X~File_Agent
Mar 21 2004, 08:37 PM
I'm surprised Student Alive didn't come in here, and say 'HA' told you so.
Druss
Mar 21 2004, 08:59 PM
There is still Time
Kellalor
Mar 21 2004, 09:12 PM
| QUOTE (SaRuMaN @ Mar 21 2004, 06:14 AM) |
| [/IMG]If there's one thing Stephen Unwin is certain about, it's that he can't be sure of anything. |
PsychicPenguin
Mar 22 2004, 01:20 AM
bathory
Mar 22 2004, 01:31 AM
so what he's really worked out is that lots of people seem to believe in something, therefore the odds are in its favour. I guess several billion flies couldn't be wrong either:)
Diebytheflyguy
Mar 25 2004, 02:52 AM
Edit: removed highly inflammatory and offensive comment.
bathory
Mar 25 2004, 03:28 AM
i dunno about an atheist
but as an asshole you come up tops
Diebytheflyguy
Mar 25 2004, 03:32 AM
Thanks.
strichar
Mar 25 2004, 03:33 AM
I don't know, that seems to me like saying "Since most people beleive the civil war was over slaves, then odds are, that is what the civil war was about."
Magikman
Mar 25 2004, 04:41 AM
I've had enough of your vulgar offensiveness and inappropriate behavior, Diebytheflyguy. You've disregarded several warnings and continue to disrupt the forum with indecent comments, that will end now. You'll need to contact Saruman and ask to be reinstated.
Magikman
stillcrazy
Mar 25 2004, 05:45 AM
| QUOTE |
| I've had enough of your vulgar offensiveness and inappropriate behavior, Diebytheflyguy. You've disregarded several warnings and continue to disrupt the forum with indecent comments, that will end now. You'll need to contact Saruman and ask to be reinstated. |
See, there is divine intervention
TheNeutralBuddhist
Mar 25 2004, 07:26 AM
...........
"A widely held lie is still a lie"- GOD
stillcrazy
Mar 25 2004, 07:45 AM
| QUOTE |
| A widely held lie is still a lie"- GOD |
Why is it a lie? Can you prove that is a lie, or is it your belief that it's a lie?
I find it interesting that a great deal of the planet's population believe in some sort of "supreme being" and not by any means the same god. But those that don't have a belief system per se, always say that what others believe is a lie.
But hey, that's just my opinion as I don't believe anyone.
TheNeutralBuddhist
Mar 25 2004, 08:50 AM
| QUOTE |
| I find it interesting that a great deal of the planets population believe in some sort of "supreme being" and not by any means the same god. |
So you’re assuming that one must exist. You sound like your giving weight to the majority rules argument, "hey they all believe in some sort of God or Supreme Being so he must really exist; so your saying all these people are delusional? One has to exist!" That doesn’t show the evidence or proof that a God does exist, it only leaves room for wishful thinking and assumptions that the universe and everything had to have a creator so it must be this being we call God or some other name that exist eternally. Far as scientist and people themselves see and look anywhere you won’t find a Supreme Being or evidence, go look in children’s hospital he sure doesn’t make appearances there. There is no evidence for a God or some sort of being, there are arguments but that is not evidence; thus.......I wouldn’t call it a lie I would just call it a delusion, misunderstanding or superstition until proven true. And no one agrees on a coherent definition of a God or Supreme Being that created everything, more than anyone Christian theologians, they all argue with each other on the definition of a God. When we the world as people, get the absolute proof one exist then yes God does exist and we would have absolute proof without doubt it exist ,but before then all that is left is faith; believing unknowingly.
| QUOTE |
| But those that don't have a belief system per se, always say that what others believe is a lie. |
And actually I just felt like saying the quote because I was bored, I said it deliberately I didn’t even mean to spark an argument but it is still fun; hearing other peoples views.
But, if you want to talk about something else that’s interesting, millions of people throughout human history believed there was a God and that they were in the last days and yes God shall come and judge the world, yet it has fail to happen; far as other tribal Gods and ect those too are yet to appear. Even Jesus said he was in the last days and said, the men you see before me shall not perish until thy kingdom come, but turns out they all died....tisk. If the kingdom had come we wouldn’t be here on earth now would we; nah I don’t think God would take some and leave the rest to suffer. I’m just stating dude, to me in my "opinion" I believe the first cause can never be known in our current state. And neither do I care about the first cause, people can still live morally productive without the belief in a supreme being or what have you. Besides believing in a first cause of everything, there are things to be done here on earth, work, so even if a God or supreme being does exist that really wont to the least bit help us complete the task that are at hand here on earth. What are those tasks then?! Many things, I’m like a kid in a candy store. But I’m not starting a debate I’m just speaking from opinion; I already have one of those.
stillcrazy
Mar 25 2004, 09:32 AM
| QUOTE |
| people can still live morally productive without the belief in a supreme being or what have you. |
Very good point. And I agree with it 100% I did not have a belief system for most of my life. (I was forced to go to Catholic church when I was a kid and that killed any beliefs i may have had at that time) I have lived a morally productive life not because of any book or fear of hell, but because the thought of spending time in jail was a deterent.
Culturally, most civilizations have had some kind of "god" or "gods". Back then if you told the mayans that their beliefs where a lie you'd end up as their next sacrafice.
As for all religions/beliefs being lies, or incorrect that is a matter opinion. And as humans who are alive and walking on this planet, (or in some cases rolling around)
We will really never know if we are right or we are wrong.
I will state, with a fair amount of certainty, that many "religions" were created to control people and get them to be more civilized in dealing with others. But like any government, in time, it needs to assert more control in order to maintain power.
However, I would not call any belief or non-belief a lie. Mainly because I just don't know. I have a very strong belief in my faith, but I will never force it on another.
I can't offer proof that god does or does'nt exsist. But I don't need to. Because I doubt that it would change anyone's mind or beliefs. Just as saying my faith is a lie or wrong, or silly or juvinile or ....... It will not change my beliefs and faith.
TheNeutralBuddhist
Mar 25 2004, 10:49 AM
Edit: removed unnecessary quoteYup, I agree. I hope you did noticed I changed "lie" into misunderstanding or delusion. Basically, the way i see it is if you have nothing to support you claim how can it have any crediblity or be reguarded as true in any form....Far as all religions being lies I changed it to delusion, because people literally go "ga ga " with this 1st cause stuff and assumtions and assertions that a Supreme ruler over all must exist such as Allah or whoever, while they have nothing supporting them. Just like I can say there is so and so feet giant that only I can see,and no proof were required for it to true every single belief would be reguarded as true. For "me" if someone can show me something to support the claim they are making that coresponds with logic and is not incoherent or illogical then I'll have a better chance of accepting it as true. But just asserting " O a God/Allah exist because something had to create everything" without evidence I reguard as a delusion,misunderstanding, or a better term I can properly phrase it, Superstition-A belief in something reguarded as true without evidence to the contrary. But it was pretty nice talking to ya man, Im always ready to hear others views, and good views they are.
fearfulone
Mar 25 2004, 05:09 PM
Stalin said on his deathbed, "If there is a God it is better to ask for forgiveness and be sure than to have not believed at all."
and by the way...bit of a little anti-Catholicism there eh still crazy? just a thought, don't judge a religion or faith on a bad experience.
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