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user posted imageIt's been called the longest-running hoax in history - an 800-year-old religious riddle that's taken in popes, scientists and believers from all faiths.The Turin Shroud has been either worshipped as divine proof that Christ was resurrected from the grave or dismissed as a fraud created by medieval forgers.But new evidence suggests the shroud might be genuine after all.As Mel Gibson's film The Passion Of The Christ rekindles interest in Jesus, stitching on the shroud which could have been created only during the messiah's lifetime has been uncovered.At the same time, tests from 1988 that dated the shroud to between 1260 and 1390 have been thrown into doubt.Swedish textiles expert Dr Mechthild Flury-Lemberg, who discovered the seam at the back of the cloth during a restoration project, says: "There have been attempts to date the shroud from looking at the age of the material, but the style of sewing is the biggest clue."It belongs firmly to a style seen in the first century AD or before."Her findings are being hailed as the most significant since 1988, when scientists controversially carbon-dated the 14ft-long cloth to medieval times, more than 1,000 years after Jesus died.

Yet experts now say the team unwittingly used cloth that had been added during a 16th-century restoration and it could have been contaminated from handling.Mark Guscin, of the British Society for the Turin Shroud, says: "The discovery of the stitching along with doubt about the carbon-dating all add to the mountain of evidence suggesting this was probably the shroud Jesus was buried in."Scientists have been happy to dismiss it as a fake, but they have never been able to answer the central question of how the image of that man got on to the cloth."

user posted image View: Full Article | Source: The Mirror
bathory
i'm sorry but what proof other than it bearing a likeness and now supposedly having stitching to that of 1 centuary textiles, indicates it is the shroud jesus was buried in?
wunarmdscissor
because they say so
PurpleStuart
It sounds to me that that article is more about promoting some guy's book, hoping to get more sales due to the interest generated by Passion of the Christ. This new proof of the stitching sounds daft to me, what stops that type of stitching being done in any time period?

I think the biggest clue that (unfortunately) the Turin Shroud is a fake is the fact that the image of the face looks like how Jesus has been pictured in western europe since the mediaeval period, basically like a western european.
PsychicPenguin
Take another sample (from a different location), do another carbon dating ... problem solved.

Or maybe Jesus came back on the year 1000 according to revelation, but we crucified him again? blink.gif

PurpleStuart
yep, that is definately the way forward
tat2 netty
disgust.gif well I saw a program on t.v. in wich they rapped a sweaty guy in a slightly grubby linen sheet.They left him in there for a while untill his sweat had soaked into the linen nicely.Then they exposed the the sheet to sunlight for a few hours.then left it in the dark for a while and hey presto,out came a shroud similar to the turin shroud?Well i never took the time to try it, but thats what i saw on t.v
PurpleStuart
well if that was true there would be thousands of 'shrouds' across the globe - bedsheets! grin2.gif
Kismit
QUOTE (PsychicPenguin @ Apr 5 2004, 04:26 AM)
Take another sample (from a different location), do another carbon dating ... problem solved.

Or maybe Jesus came back on the year 1000 according to revelation, but we crucified him again? blink.gif

Carbon dating is of very little use , and getting another sample would be a bit difficult . The Church dosen't let just anyone go and snip a bit off . It took years to get the samples that have allready been tested .

As for the guy wanting to ride the wave of the Pasion and sell his book, I tottally agree . It seems that the decade after the turn of any century seems to encourage an awful lot of religious fever .People are allready beginning to warn us the end is nigh and I don't see it getting any better for a wee while yet .
It appears on the whole we arn't any more advanced religiously going into the 21st century than we were going into the 19th .
Kellalor
QUOTE (PurpleStuart @ Apr 4 2004, 08:24 AM)


I think the biggest clue that (unfortunately) the Turin Shroud is a fake is the fact that the image of the face looks like how Jesus has been pictured in western europe since the mediaeval period, basically like a western european.

Yeah, I agree with that. The features are much too narrow.
Naveed
Also, shouldn't the carbon dating over rule the stitching anyways? Because if the day shows it appeared in medeval times then material for the shroud would have to be from medeval times because how could it exist before it's date? The stitching is either coincidence or just done in a similar style.
Scorpius
As I'm writing this Post I'm watching CNN's show titled "The Mystery of Jesus"
It has presented many complex scientific data, such as the alignment of the planets and a star. Religiously, this would say that a divine child would be born...Jesus, his birth calculated as April 7th, 6 B.C.

Wasn't there an alignment of 5 planets last month? Could this be connected to the alignments of the planets when Jesus was born? What divine child was born during the alignments of these 5 planets?
-----

Couldn't there have been a time when this shroud was preserved, creating this shroud uncalcalable for an accurate test of carbon-dating?

=====
What a coincidence, this is the 4th day of the 4th month of the 4th millenium.
Equals 16. thumbsup.gif Now what does this mean... huh.gif
Skela
"Couldn't there have been a time when this shroud was preserved, creating this shroud uncalcalable for an accurate test of carbon-dating?"

No.

The Turin Shroud is fake. Period. Carbon Dating has proven this. C'mon! The stiching? What will they think of next? tongue.gif

"The discovery of the stitching along with doubt about the carbon-dating all add to the mountain of evidence suggesting this was probably the shroud Jesus was buried in."

What mountain of evidence?! Stop making molehills into mountains!
Buddy_Hongster
There was once where the Shroud of Turin was said to be faked by good ol' Da Vinci...

LINK

But then there are others who said it cannot be done

Link

But I say, I don't want to know...If it supposed to remain a mystery then let it be.

This is a typical Science Vs Religion...and it has no end.
Scorpius
QUOTE (Skela @ Apr 5 2004, 12:43 AM)
"Couldn't there have been a time when this shroud was preserved, creating this shroud uncalcalable for an accurate test of carbon-dating?"

No.

Are you qualified to make such a presumptuous answer? Qualified meaning, an expertise in this matters concerning this shroud?

QUOTE
The Turin Shroud is fake. Period. Carbon Dating has proven this. C'mon! The stiching? What will they think of next?


A fake in what sense...?

"Scientists have been happy to dismiss it as a fake, but they have never been able to answer the central question of how the image of that man got on to the cloth."

Therefore it's still a mystery to whether it actually is fake or divinely his or of someone. That image may well be his signature "photo", could it not? If it's still a mystery to how it got there then my proposition cannot be evidently be proven wrong.
====

To prove you wrong Skela here's a site you can see for yourself. Carbon Dating

Are There Things That Can't Be Carbon-Dated?
"Yes. The method doesn't work on things which didn't get their carbon from the air. This leaves out aquatic creatures, since their carbon might (for example) come from dissolved carbonate rock. That causes a dating problem with any animal that eats seafood. "

To accuratly receive a proper date on this Shroud more than 1 test must be done using a different method. Such as using another radioactive element...if these test both agree than it would be a scientifically proven, yet the only tests I've heard of used on this Shroud is Carbon-Dating...
====
Buddy_Hongster
Like I Said It Has No End.... disgust.gif
bathory
QUOTE
"Scientists have been happy to dismiss it as a fake, but they have never been able to answer the central question of how the image of that man got on to the cloth."


in the end that question is irrelevant, people make the claim it is jesus, evidence points to middle ages, therefore it is considered a fake, that said, since when did a 1st century ad jew look like a european?
PsychicPenguin
since when did a 1st century ad jew look like a european?

Since Judah was conquered by Rome??
Or maybe because.. uhm... God did it!! tongue.gif
Skela
So the shroud is from an aquatic animal? What? Stupid.

"Are you qualified to make such a presumptuous answer? Qualified meaning, an expertise in this matters concerning this shroud?"

Yes.
Kellalor
Whether or not the cloth is the shroud that covered Jesus (I'm inclined to believe its not) I'd really like to know how the image of the man appeared on it. huh.gif
Chris_com28
QUOTE
What a coincidence, this is the 4th day of the 4th month of the 4th millenium.
Equals 16.  Now what does this mean...

It means that you're not too good at basic maths. wink2.gif 4+4+4=16. 4x4x4=64. How did you get 16.

When I used to drool while sleeping I used to wake up with a white stain on my bed. Maybe Jesus used to drool in his sleep...a lot! laugh.gif
AbductingU
QUOTE (Chris_com28 @ Apr 6 2004, 08:32 PM)
When I used to drool while sleeping I used to wake up with a white stain on my bed. Maybe Jesus used to drool in his sleep...a lot! laugh.gif

I hope that I'm not taking you wrong here.. I hope you aren't (IN-SIN-uating) that you are JESUS..blink.gif

Other than that (BUDDY HONGSTER) makes the most sense here..
Chris_com28
I never though about it like that before, but yes...yes I am. *Turns fermented gape juice into wine* This is my drink! It is mine! grin2.gif
AbductingU
QUOTE (Chris_com28 @ Apr 7 2004, 12:09 PM)
I never though about it like that before, but yes...yes I am. *Turns fermented gape juice into wine* This is my drink! It is mine! grin2.gif

Alot of people do this, and I tell you it takes quite awhile.. I'm sure that alot of them were making the drink before you.. Here again NO PROOF!! Still waiting for a thread or a post Besides my own, that have actual PROOF of anything they say to back it up.. My daughter drools..laugh.gif

Jim
fearfulone
QUOTE
Well i never took the time to try it, but thats what i saw on t.v


Well now...then it must be true! rolleyes.gif
AbductingU
QUOTE (fearfulone @ Apr 7 2004, 05:22 PM)
[QUOTE]Well i never took the time to try it, but thats what i saw on t.v

Well if it was on TV then it must be true, or at least to come true in the future.. Alot of movies I saw as a kid, the products we never had.. Is available now.. Like Bruce Willis and the flying cars.. Soon we will have flying cars..
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