Iraqi abuse photos spark shock

Images of US soldiers allegedly abusing Iraqi prisoners at a notorious jail near Baghdad have sparked shock and anger.
Politicians in the US, Britain and the Middle East expressed disgust at the images, broadcast on US television, and called for those responsible to face justice.

CBS News said it delayed the broadcast for two weeks after a request from the Pentagon due to the tensions in Iraq.

Last month, the US army suspended 17 soldiers over alleged prisoner abuses.

Elsewhere in Iraq, US marines have begun withdrawing from the Iraqi city of Falluja after a month of bloody clashes with rebels.

Saddam Hussein's prisoners were not only tortured but executed. It was much worse than what is there now

Two battalions have been pulling back from front-line positions and are set to move further out during the day.

A new Iraqi force, led by one of Saddam Hussein's former generals, is expected to move into the city while the US maintains a presence outside the flashpoint city.


The rest

Thats sad.

But, like anywhere, the army has both good and bad people....

Guess that's what is called 'winning hearts and minds'.

Not just (a few) American soldiers...Here in Britain an Investigation has just gotten underway concerning the disgraceful behaviour of some British soldiers beating and urinating on Iraq POWs
Vimjams

Here goes. I am an ex British serviceman, so I can't speak for the US armed forces but believe me, this goes on in every campaign we have ever fought, it's just that now we have 500% more media coverage etc etc and more things are found out, so to speak. Servicemen/women can be ANIMALS, i know. When the Falklands war finished plenty of Paras/Marines came home with, shall we say "souvenirs" (ear and finger necklaces spring to mind). My intention here is not to annoy any serving members on the board or to p*ss off the MoD but I know it happens.

What I will say though, is has anyone thought PROPAGANDA yet. How hard could it be for an Iraqi or an AL Qaeda to dress up in coalition uniforms, not very hard at all and all the photo's I saw could well have been mistaken for either ethnic background.

UK probes alleged Iraqi beatings by troops
By Michael Holden


LONDON (Reuters) - An investigation has been launched into allegations British soldiers abused Iraqi prisoners and the Daily Mirror has published photographs of a captive being urinated on and beaten

Link

The soldiers have alot of pressure on them.

They have to be ruthless killers (frontline soldiers) one day and the next be peace keepers.

And seeing your mates die on the battle field wouldn't help them either, espically if you've been there for a year.


Pssing on POWs is going a bit far but you have to be in their shoes to make a true judgement

nothing new there, I've known about this stuff for some time, every war or conflict it happens, yet somehow, it still seems to surprise people that it happened at all why is this do you think?

It doesn't surprise me personally Doomgirl...I know this sort of thing goes on. But we in the West seem to think that those who do it to (us) are criminals and will be brought to justice...Then when our troops are responsible...Somehow we find all the excuses to...you know: forget it (it being just one of those things).
Similarly: When we drop a bomb on a restaurant and kill everybody inside...It's called an 'act of war' but when one of our soldiers is ambushed and killed...It's called an 'act of terrorism'.
Vimjams

the world is just mad, and most of it's leaders as well, plus, you give a person a gun and tell him to go out and protect and I'm sure it goes to their heads or maybe it is just a case of monkey see monkey do, either way, it's sick and something has to be done about it

Full Article

Bathory
I am not ‘trying’ to lump anything together: But actually am placing them both in the same context. Your brain may distinguish between the two but I, as a civilian, do not see the difference. Perhaps you can enlighten me?
Have you ever seen images of the needless death and destruction our ‘acts of war’ have caused the people of Iraq? We have a name for it: ‘Collateral damage’. Our leaders, and apparently the people, hide behind these little philosophical inventions to excuse our own acts of terror. You can (hate) it as much as you like…But it’s a fact.
Dropping a 1000lb bomb on a restaurant filled with diners in order to kill one man…is, in my opinion, an act of terror not an act of war.
And as for the POW abuse…People ought to be disgusted. It’s been going on for quite a while, as Jimma above points out. Most of the time though, for the sake of Queen, country and regiment it has been expedient to brush it all under the proverbial carpet. Even now the concept of fakes and forgery is being fed to us and I often hear my fellow human beings say things like: “Well. They’re only bloody foreigners”.
Actually, I don’t really see the point you’re making.

-URINATED ON: A British soldier urinates on an Iraqi prisoner in a vile display of abuse. The captive was beaten and hurled from a moving truck.

Mirror.co.uk-CLICK HERE..!!

BTW they dont think the photos are real new reports are suggesting that theyre staged. Theres sumfin wrong wiv the uniforms.

Doubt cast on Iraqi photos

Sources close to the army have questioned the authenticity of photographs appearing to show British soldiers torturing an Iraqi prisoner.


article


However, this source claims that there are even more graphic photographs still to come...

Know what the BBC have been running as their main story this morning? How
the Daily Mirror(who are massively against the Iraq campaign) may well have been duped.

It appears the pictures are looking suspect, with a number of inconsistencies visible to experts. And if the BBC are running with this (who are anti-military, anti-establishment, anti-Iraq campaign, too), then I suspect there could be something in it.

Unfortunately, the damage has been done. Fake or not, those who want to use these pictures to stir up hatred, will be able to do so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3677311.stm

The newspapers who have printed this story and pictures should be severly dealt with they shouldve been verified before printed. GIven that its such a colatile situation theyve done nothing but invite hatred upon british people and incite hatred.

Wot theyve done is nothing shourt of traitoras.

The pictures still haven't been proven false, though. And you know what tabloids are like, they'll rush and print anything if they think its a 'scoop'. I agree they should have made doubly sure the pictures were genuine before they printed them.

Its becoming increasingly obvious that they are and the BBC wouldnt discount them unless their was real proof that they aer BS.

Like i said the newspapers in question shouldve checked.

Just noticed you edited the last post lol.

the news over here has also reported 8 court marshals being processed over the U.S. Army incident .

Theyve endangered the lives of our soldiers by showing these pics and they could be fake. Its a disgrace i hope the british people boycott the newspapers in question.

Traitors!

And BTW if they are fake then obviously the soldiers involved should get put in prison for a long time, however its war and things like that happen people are gonna end up desensitised by it and commiting acts they never would. Am sorry if yer mates just has his head blown of your gonna be affected.

However the vast vast majority of the british soldiers anyway are so well behaved that this kind of thing is minescule in comparison.

Its ruined all thge good work our squaddies have done (some of them people i know), and now if they get caught theyll be tortured.

Is that what people such as george galloway want?? You know i wouldn be surprised if he did.

Fake or not, the point is that the prisoner is being treated badly, how would you feel if that was you being urinated on and the world was arguing over the realty of a photo and not your treatment, people have rights and this man's rights are obviously not being taking into consideration

If they killed them no one would care but since they're alive and they are treating them like sh**, everybody cares.


As you can see if this photo nobody cares

Edit; removed disgusting and inappropriate links. Dowdy, lets have some consideration for the younger members of the forum, please.



It's a crazy world we live in

Must warn you

Don't click on the first one if you don't like death

The photos of British Squaddies 'torturing' Iraqi POWs are almost certainly faked:

Uniform, Weapon and vehicle inconsistencies, aswell as the lack of any injuries to the POW point to them being set up.

However, I am sure that human rights violations do occur, it is just another sad reflection of the way humans treat other humans.

I have to agree with Wunarmd, showing the Brit Pics is very dodgy considering that there is a good chance they are fake - the fallout on the ground in Basra and the other areas controlled by the Brits could cost lives.

The US photos have actually got face shots of the soldiers, so I assume they are real, once again this will only fan the flames of the resistance/terrorists operating in Iraq, but we shouldn't condemn the papers for showing these if they are genuine.

exactly stamford.

If the photos are real then its terrible and the soldiers dealt with accordingly.

However there are many thousands of troops out there and the vast majority are exemplary to every nation on the planet.

It is a sad fact of any war that very occasionally these terrible things DO happen.

Lets not forget that saddam did that and much much more to many many thousands of people than this SUPPOSED incident.

the bit I dont get is the fact that quite a while ago it was in the news about that British soldier who had taken similar photos to Boots (or somewhere equally dumb) to get them developed.
it wasnt really that big a deal then, yet suddenly the same story makes the headlines now and everyone is shocked and/or trying to disprove them as fake.
Incidentally, it never made the headlines when there were accusations that a few British soldiers training in Africa had alledgedly raped some local women.
I think its highly likely these photos are real, and I think it must be hard for a soldier to train to be a killing machine, and not be affected in some way (as was mentioned earlier)

I think the real people to blame are their superiors, who should have been in tighter control of their troops, and not left them unsupervised with POWs.

Mowo...I think it was a 'big deal' back then. But somebody has been quite successful in keeping that case out of the news and stopping it going (Publicly) any further. This sort of brutality hurts reputations and that is what concerns the authorities the most.
It seems a lot of people have already made the assumption that the images are fakes. I heard a guy on BBC news (a military expert) actually say that in his opinion the pictures were fake because the soldier's boot laces were not threaded right...WHAT! That has to be the weakest piece of BS I've ever heard...But the idea was fed to the public and now many people will agree with him on that basis. And the reason for that is because people here in the UK simply cannot accept that 'our boys' are even capable of such cruelty.

Dowdy...I suggest you stop looking at websites like that...For your own sake.

Vimjams (feeling sick)

What exactly are people surprised about? Bush declared WAR
he knew things like this would happen as did congress,war is not a pretty thing and it never will be,But apperantly getting revenger against saddam was more important than the thousands of lives that were lost.

Boo hoo hoo.
I wish I could say I feel bad...
But I couldn't!!!!

Then again, the Iraqis were soooooooo humane to their prisoners of war.

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty, how about real until proven fake?

So the British photos seem to be fake. The American photos are real however. As if we didn't have enough World opinion against us already. Here's something that's been bugging me. The events in the photos would have taken a good amount of time to do; time where the soldiers involved probably should have been making reports, showing up for other details, etc...Their Officers had to have known what was going on and yet no mention has been made about them. It was their job to keep the men under control and put a stop to things like this. I don't feel like justice will be served if a few young guys are hung out to dry for the sake of public opinion while those in charge of them get off scott-free....