Christian is not a good wrestler, what are you guys talking about? And he doesn't make anybody look good when he's in the ring with them!

Christian is simply a mid carder, that's all he should ever be. The reason a few fans have gotten behind him is because he's funny. He does have charisma (like he points out) but being funny doesn't make someone a good wrestler. Now, i'm not saying Christian is a guy like Hogan or Brock Lesnar who only performs 5 or 6 moves in the ring. Christian can go out there and perform a 30 or 40 minute match with some of the best and not miss a beat. But he's not a real wrestler, he's not someone who goes out there and counters people move for move hold for hold. Plus he also falls into the Orton category of needing to bulk up a little more. See, Christian, like Orton, isn't a Shawn Michaels......he can't go out there and back flip and suicide dive his size out of the way to become a main eventer.

Christian is someone who could make a great Intercontinental Champion (like in the past) or a great U.S. or European (if it was brought back) champion. But he's not someone who should ever be given the responsibility of caring the big belt. (unless all of the other wrestlers better than him suddenly come down with a life threatening sickness and have to leave for a year to recover, lol)

Christian is an O.K. wrestler, but he's not a potential main eventer (or at least he shouldn't be, although he probably will one day) He's not in the league of guys like Angle, RVD, Jericho, Beniot, Eddie G, HBK, HHH, or Shelton........he just isn't, and there's no arguing that point; like I said before, the WWE should be using the guys they have now, not trying to use guys who aren't at that level, at least not yet.

As far as Triple H..... Yeah, he's been the champ a lot, but all he's really been doing is putting people over who aren't as good as he is, like Batista and probably Cena when he comes back. (remember, back in the day, when HHH was a heel he still kicked the crap out of everybody and beat them pretty much fair and square; now he acts like he's a little weakling that can't fight back and has to be saved from certain defeat by Flair) If the WWE is going to make HHH job to people, at least make the guys he's putting over be in his league. The WWE is rushing too much, they need to slow everything down in regards to their younger talent who they're trying to build up... These guys are in their 20's there's no reason to push them as fast as they have been, they should slow it down.

But I will agree with you Peeps a little, by saying that if there were any young guys that should have been given the Title recently........it should have been the guys who have paid their dues and been there longer (Christian, Edge, Hardy) instead of Orton, Batista, and Cena.

I'm not saying I think Christian is that great of a wrestler that he deserves the Title, but he's more deserving than some of the other guys in the business that's for sure.

Hogan is indeed an a$$



... that is a terrible gimmic.



Christian is a very good wrestler.




5 ot 6 moves? What you talking about, Brock was actually pretty talented also. He's one of the few big guys I've seen who can pull off technical wrestling.



You know, being buff doesn't increase talent, example, most of the cruiserweights are far more talented than most of the heavyweights.



While he's not as good as Angle, Jericho, Beniot, Eddie G or Shelton. I don't get why you say that he's not good enough to be a main eventer. Half of the main eventers are slow useless gits like JBL, Hogan, Taker....... and lets not forget Henry's push..... oh dear god. Christain may not be in the elite, but he certainly good enough to be in the main event.



...you know, thats the policy they followed in the 1990s, only using Rock, Foley, Austin and look where we are now, their having to push green wrestlers like Cena and Orton before they are neccessarily early, and pushing useless people like JBL.
While I want to see more Angle and Beniot, they still have to invest time in the next generation of wrestlers. And as for Christain, he;s been in the WWE now for around 5 years, increasingly getting better in the ring and on the mic, and the fans have noticed. It certainly isn't green. And its his time to join the main eventers.




HHH has been hogging the spot light for years His puting over Batista only happened as he's best friends with the guy. The list of who he's squashed to put himself over includes the majority of the roster.



While I agree Randy and Cena have been pushed too green, they still need to invest in them, reason, because they are running out of time with their current maineventers. They learned that the hard way with the 1990s main-eventer generation were the only good people left are Eddie, Jericho, Beniot and Angle, who as good as they are, don't draw like Austin and the Rock. The WWE knows it can't wait until the last minute, it has to push them... problem is, its investing in the wrong people like JBL.




Actually I think talent more than dues should come into it. JBL a lot of people say deserves it because of dues and how long he's been in the company. Hell, half of the worse people on the roster could get the title if it was based on dues.
Cena is getting it because the fans love him, he's taken the ball and run with it, and the WWE, despite how green he is, want to develope him as a future star.
Orton has talent, although is very green, but the WWE still wants to develope him as a replacement for HHH when he leaves.
Batista got in because Vince has a thing for big men, and he's best friends with HHH.
I hate Edge, he has the look, but there are so many more talented people who could be having the push he's getting, e.g. Christain or Matt hardy.

Well thats opinion but I think he is a good wrestler. He may not be Benoit or Angle but very few people can be. Christian does what he's supposed to, play the cocky yet cowardly heel and he does it perfectly. Christian is actually a pretty good seller and I can't remember the last time he botched a move. The problem is he isn't given enough room to grow, he is constantly being jobbed out, cause I think Christian does make other people look good with him being able to take a move and make it look like the most painful thing in the world. If Christian would actually win once in awhile he'd be so much more credible.



I disagree. I think Christian could run with the ball if he was actually given one.



No it doesn't, but The Rock wasn't Angle or Benoit but he still had good matches and was entertaining as well.



Christian has been around for awhile now. I'm sure if he was allowed to, he could produce some good technical wrestling, but thats not the way WWE markets him. Thats for guys like Benoit, Angle and Shelton. Benoit was trained in the dungeon, and both Angle and Shelton have a history in amateur wrestling. Christian is the heel that will do everything to win.



The thing about Orton is that he is tall, Orton is about as big as Edge, and it's your opinion but I bought guys like Orton and Edge going against HHH, Kane, or Undertaker and having credible offense. Christian is about the same size as HBK, now HBK was believable against big guys cause he was resiliant but I picture Christian being believable cause of his mic work, Christian can make himself sound like a threat on the mic. During the draft lottery, Christian kept talking about how he was going to take Cenas title and you know people were buying it. A guy that didn't have a PPV victory since WM21 was actually looking like someone that could win the WWE Title all because of his mic work and people were actually getting behind him in his match with Batista. That is the way Christian should be used.



Christian doesn't have to get the big one right away, but what he does need is to be built up to look credible. The WWE isn't doing this right now, and I think they should be. Usually when a wrestler gets the strap they are forced to pick up there game, since JBL got it he's improved big time and same with Batista.



Well it is hard to get in the same league as those guys you mentioned, but Christian is better then Shelton. Shelton is awful on the mic, and well he might be better then Christian in the ring, Christian is the better all around superstar. Same goes for Benoit, but Benoit isn't as bad as Shelton on the mic but Christian could talk circles around both of them.



HHH had to put Batista over. With the big flop that was Randy Ortons face push the WWE needed someone, and Batista was gaining momentum. Right now Batista is one of the most over faces in the WWE. The WWE learned the hard way that they should be making stars not having HHH bury people. Like they did with RVD or Booker T who could have helped the company and were over when Stone Cold, Rock and Brock left.



I agree with this, but I think the WWE is worried that if they wait too long the interest for guys like Batista and Cena will fade.



I disagree with this. In my opinion the WWE didn't even have any plans for the future of Batista he was always just going to be the enforcer of Evolution but he caught on, the fans wanted him to turn on HHH, they were getting behind him, the WWE had to do something with him.

The fans also wanted Christian and wanted dozens of other people to beat HHH. Didn't get it.

Talon: "Batista got in because Vince has a thing for big men, and he's best friends with HHH."


Yeah, Vince does have a thing for big guys, that seems to be the only people he's been hiring recently. But I don't know about Batista and HHH being best friends, yeah they're cool with each other, but Batista is a pretty quiet guy backstage and probably isn't close with very many people, let alone Triple H. Besides, HHH wanted to wrestle Orton and WM not Batista, but management thought he should wrestle Batista instead because of the fans wanting to see it.

On another note.....what's up with all of you people being so big on Christian? I'm not saying Christian is a terrible wrestler (in my last post I said he's someone who could probably go 30 to 40 minutes with the best and not miss a beat) but he's not a main eventer, plain and simple. No matter what you guys say your never going to convince me otherwise.

As for Brock, don't get me started... The guy has a VERY limited arsenal! He goes to the ring, does a few shoulder thrusts in the corner, does a few belly to bellys, maybe does a bear hug every now and then; after that he does his F-5 (which he usually hurts people with because he's so clumsy) and that's it, he leaves the ring and people think he's some kind of prodigy in the business. The guy isn't anything special, and the only reason he was made a star was because of his amateur background. But even when he wrestled amateur style all he did was use his size. Look, I wrestled that type of wrestling in high school. For someone as big as he is, his weight class would have consisted mostly of fat people; so of course he could beat most of them in high school and by the time he went to college he was so big he could over power anybody. He didn't win because he knew how to wrestle, he won because he was a monster. The fact is, any big muscular guy with not very much wrestling talent could do what Lesnar did and become a Champion (guys like Hogan, Andre the Giant, The Big Show, Sid Vicious, ect..) Lesnar isn't anything special...... And the only time he mat wrestled anybody was when he wrestled Angle, and he only did that because EVERYBODY does something like that with Angle. When Lesnar wasn't wrestling him all he was doing was shoulder thrusts in the corner and belly to bellys.

lol there ya go Talon



Is this the that was Disco Inferno in WCW?





Aw, CM Punk you got to realize, to look like a "WWE Superstar" and look "spectacular" you got to crush random jobbers, not have a pretty much even match with them, you're not in the indies anymore pal Well I'm mad the Punk had a bad debut, the chance the he might appear on RAW makes me very happy.

I am not sure about you, but someone who can have a good 30 or 40 minute match with the best in my book is deservedly a main eventer....

The "he isnt a main eventer" was also said of Eddie Guerrero..... and he made the transition..... We won't ever know how christian will be, until they try it.......

Going 30 to 40 minutes in the ring with one of the top guys in the business isn't something all that special.

If you'll think back to the 1990's, they had guys like that farmer guy (I forget his name) who threw pig slop on people wrestle Bret Hart for about 30 to 40 minutes on Saturday Superstars (without any hype or storyline). Wrestling that amount of time with a top guy is something every wrestler should be able to do if they're half way decent at what they do.......it doesn't make them a main eventer, it just makes them a regular mid carder.

The Undertaker doesnt have a 30 r 40 minute match in him anymore, let alone match it against the top guys.

JBL doesnt have a "match" in him.....

Batista struggles to have a long match, unless he is against a guy who can seriously carry him.

Cena is the same.

Jericho, the odd one out.

So when you say every wrestler should be able to do so, you may be right.... but if the uppercard/main eventers of current are not able to, surely you would agree the next step is to promote the midcarders that can?

................

Thats quite sad and funny....

I myself sat down yesterday and watched ECW one night stand with my father, and my grandmother... who used to watch the wrestling years ago......

In the first match where Justin Credible hit Jericho with the cane she was horrified..... Can you imagine what she said for the rest of it? lol

But she couldnt stop watchig.... weird 89 year old woman lol

scary

Why? Just...why? Why? Whywhywhy?

I just don't understand it....I honest to god do not, and will never, understand it. Why on earth hire people who know nothing about wrestling, know nothing about what goes on in the ring, know nothing about what the fans want to see, and who spend all their time putting together crap children's day time telivision (which, under their rule, the WWE is turning into...only with more and more sex thrown in).

The WWE does seem to have just turned into that...it's been taken over by writers who know nothing about wrestling, and care for it about the same. All they want to stuff the shows with are as many sexual references as they can, because they seem to believe the fans are as morally bankrupt as they are....I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it but...when the hell is Vince going to realise that someone might be watching a wrestling show for the sake of seeing some god damn wrestling!?

I think right about the time stephanie realises she can't get her breats onto a plane anymore as carry on..... lol

I maintain, I think Stephanie made a good decision there...

When you wrack up as many air miles as she does, it's a good idea to make sure you constantly have something to soften your landing in the event of a crash.

Yes, but now I can't class her as human, as shes about 65% fibre glass and plastic.

Stephanie is a yacht

If I owned a promotion like the WWE my creative team would consist of the best bookers avaiable and a dozen wrestling fans who have experience and imagination for new plot lines, not people would know nothing about the sport.

The bookers would set who would fight who, they'd set the matches, they'd set the lengths, and how they ended. The writters, would not be allowed to touch to matches.

The writers only job would be to create a credible story to build hype for the matches.

I dont think booking is that hard..... You just have to go out ofthe way to find out what the fans want, whereas WWE like to think they know better then we do..... Which obviously by the ratings of there shows, shows that they know about as much as George Bush's english teacher....

Yes...and I don't understand how the WWE, who have more money than everyone else, don't already have all the best staff, instead of turning them away to hire idiots and people with no knowledge of the sport whatsoever.

lol same goes for JBL



Mmhmm

The WWE was actually starting to become good again with Benoit and Eddie winning the titles but then it started going downhill and now it's really it just a tailspin. Not only the writers know nothing about the wrestling business, but they are downright lazy. All they are doing now is rehashing old gimmicks. They should be letting more wrestlers have a say in there character and have more veterans work with the creative or booking team. I'd love to see Paul Heyman, Mick Foley, Lance Storm, Bret Hart, or even Eric Bischoff get involved. The WWE just doesn't seem to care anymore, they have no competition so why work any harder then they should seems to be the mindset. Which is sad.



And even if you have all that money and even if you were going to hire somebody from the entertainment business hire somebody that has worked with well established shows, not failed sitcom and soap opera writers

Well... I think the writers who were with the WWE previously who were wrestling fans, left it in such a state (Vince Russo) that maybe Vince wanted someone from outside to look at it, which i can understand. But running the storylines and matches area, is completely insane.

Just like its insane to have a wrestler write an episode of friends.

.... Chandler comes onto the set... says something witty..... Gets the snot beaten out of him.

Uh.. I don't know about that, I wouldn't say those guys couldn't wrestle that long. They could, the WWE just usually doesn't do matches of that length anymore (except for PPV's)

I'm sure all of the guys you mentioned could wrestle that long. Taker for instance may be old, but he can still get it done if he has too. "Jericho, the odd one out." Not sure of your meaning there, but if your saying Jericho couldn't wrestle a 30 or 40 minute match (like you said about the others you mentioned) your wrong, he can. Jericho is one of the few wrestlers who delivers every time he gets into the ring. He has wrestled Austin and the Rock on the same night; been in every Elimination Chamber match (coming in early or starting them); and has put on great matches of that length against HBK a few times; his matches against Shelton recently have also been top notch.

Keep in mind I'm not trying to stick up for the guys you mentioned, like JBL, Batista, and Cena......I said before that I think Christian is more deserving (or better, if that's what you want me to say) than those guys. I've just been pointing out that Christian (although he's an O.K. wrestler, and is more deserving than some of the other guys in the WWE getting the spot light) he's still just a mid card caliber wrestler in my opinion.

If you call three guys unable to go 40 minutes, and say this forth one is the odd man out.... What would your conclusion be on that meaning?

My thoughts exactly man....

I think the old ECW sayin' summs it by stating: "Hey Vince, the W stands for the Wrestling!

Well, when reading it it sounds like your saying Jericho could go the 40 minutes; but why the hell would you add that in there from out of no where makes no sense to me. It looks like the writting of a 4th grader, that's why I was confused by its' meaning.

I was using the example of the 4 main event wrestlers from the matches at summerslam..... That is why i chose them.

And when you say "they could, but WWE havent given them the opportunity" do you not thnk that maybe if the WWE gave CHristian more freedom in the ring, rather then always having to look weak, then maybe he also would look different in your eyes?

maybe, but what could happen in the future doesn't change the way things are right now.

Yes, and right now JBL is a main eventer.... and Chris Benoit is losing to Orlando Jordan...

So you saying that it is possible for christian to be a min eventer in the future, it really depends how they have him work in the ring and character use, because obviously he has the ability?

The whole wrestling world cries as one talon...lol

Could be worse....

Summerslam:

JBL vs Hogan
Orlando Jordan vs Heidenrich
Snitsky vs Mark Henry
45min of diva search segment....

lol

You forgot "One hour of Triple H talking......twice."

Yes, but we see that and already know how bad that is....lol

They should just put all the writers in a cage, and let some fans in to beat the hell out of them for 2 hours... Id pay to see that....

Is me or is JBL the luckiest man in this world?

2004 after WrestleMania. Eddie Guerrero can't handle the WWE Title, many other main eventers are injured or they don't have enough faith in them (Booker T). This means they need a new Heel to step up and fast, JBL gets his chance and gets a frigging long title reign. If nobody got injured he wouldn't have become the WWE Champion, he would still be in the tag title ranks. I would go as far to say that the only reason the WWE choice JBL out of all midcarders to become the top Heel is because Faarooq wanted to retire so JBL wouldn't have anything to do. 2 times lucky for JBL. He got lucky again when Vince McMahon was actually entertained by JBL and decided to let him run with the belt until WrestleMania even when all the main eventers were back. He loses to Cena, gets another title shot but that's storyline-wise. Then gets another title shot at Batista, again on-air and THEN he gets to headline Summerslam because Muhammad Hassan gets banned by UPN! If that didn't happen Hassan would have faced Batista at Summerslam, not JBL!

So JBL is lucky off air and on air. And now he has his own damn radio show and it gets a lot of publicity, his book sold pretty well and he got to have the longest WWE Title reign in Smackdown! history and the guy isn't even that good!

What's next, Batista gets a minor injury and JBL gets to beat Batista and be the Champion again? Or before Summerslam Brock Lesnar decides to screw the WWE and leave again and JBL gets another rematch at the next PPV?!
If all those things didn't happen....JBL would be just another midcarder and the top Heel would probably have been Kurt Angle or something, or Edge on SD!.

Rant over.


edited: Please do not use obscene language in any post, for its against forum guidelines and not allowed.

^ sorry about that. I didn't read the rules. Won't happen again.

Is this going to turn into a JBL bashing day?

The guy has done well, considering how little talent and such he has.... Was he lucky....yes.... Was hogan lucky when he walked through the door when vince wanted to make a star? yes.....

Was WCW lucky the WWE wrestlers needed a pay rise and they purged many of them? yes....

Luck plays a huge part in everything in life, especially when it comes to performers...

Everyday is JBL bashing day

.............

JBL sucks

Does JBL suck? Yes.... Is he the worst person ever in the history of wrestling? No... by far he is not..... He can out wrestle hogan.... lol

And seriously, i would think less of JBL if the rest of the WWE's storylines were 100% top notch....

Well, I don't think JBL is bad in the ring if he has the right opponents. He had very good matches with Mysterio, Guerrero, Benoit and Angle and I liked this week's Smackdown match with Taker as well. He can certainly be carried to a good match

But there are people that say JBL improved a lot since last year and those people should really be made to watch that snoozer that was GAB match against Batista.

I don't know, his title reign could drive for one of the worst in history

JBL wouldn't be a bad US Champ he's alot better then OJ at the moment



Yeah his Smackdown match Taker was pretty good



That was the problem JBL needs to be carried but so does Batista so those 2 made a bad match

Yes, the WWE decided to have two major heels, HHH and JBL, with belt owning qualities going into Wrestlemania, so they could put over the two biggest faces that they could push... so in essence they discounted the entrie year, just for the payoff matches....

Sucks for the rest of us who watched for that year....

And I agree JBL isn't the worst in the ring, he isnt a World Champ though.... US would suit him fine.... and his gimmick...

Sadly I don't think we will ever see JBL pushed down to US Champion but Chris Benoit and Booker T do

Sadly i concur.....

Its just a pity there aren't anymore people on smackdown that its easy to hate..... Im sure if one of the other names was easy to hate, they would take his spot...... Booker T as a heel is ok, but he doesn't get that heat from fans due to his charisma that JBL does....

Oh I pray for Brock to return...lol

Benoit was pretty good as a heel



I said that I wanted I Brock return too, but now after hearing about Christians de-pushing, I think if Brock returned Christian will have 0 chance of ever seeing the main event again.

I can't remember Benoit being a heel, probably my memory is failing me.... lol

Christian wont be pushed with or without Brock being there, I think we all know this....

lol I remember Benoit being heel awhile ago, he had matches with The Rock and Stone Cold they were good



There is always the hope...unless they turn Christian face and push him which wouldn't be bad

You kidding me




Whats wrong with that?




Shouldn't need to have a champion who can only get a good match if he's carried.

I wish ROH had a TV deal

I`ve never been able to comprehend how JBL became champion, I`ve always found him extremly boring to watch and I never thought he was a good wrestler anyway, tis just my opinion though!

Oh, don't worry, every wrestling fan agrees with you. Just the sports entertainment fans who like him.

And even then, a selected few.