Exactly!!!

Mind control.....no!!.......taking advantage of the impressionable....yes!!!

You can start a cult easily, all you need is a charismatic leader that appears to have all the answers, a sense of community, and people who are less then educated who are searching for something in life and who will fall easily to any type of twisted in group morality.

Manson got to his followers at a point when they were weakest and captilized on that weakness, used his evil charisma to pull them out of the gutter, to only owe him a lifetime of debt for his support.

It was no act of genius and definetly didn't concern any powers other than ego!!

I had to correct the above statement, as it seems that Shorty's body was found, or at least what they believe was Shorty. However, according to Parole hearing documents on Steve Grogan, asked if Manson was present at the killing, his reply was, " He had the cutlass the whole time, you make of it what you want"
It still seems that there is a murder charge against Manson that is the states ace in the hole. If Manson is ever released, he will immediatly be charged with Shea's murder to prevent him from returning to the streets. (There is no statute of limitations for murder in California.)

So what about these T-shirts people wear with the Manson image......I still haven't figured out what thats all about.

I'd post a pic here for elucidation, as I'm in the habit of doing, but further endorsement of this nut job would be contradictory to what I hold true!

I know a few people that are big fans of Manson, and they were those t-shirts.

I really think it's to show their view of society, and maybe they support him or something.
Maybe they feel he was wrongly accused/prosectuted.

See my earlier comment on this, and on Shorty Shea.

Didn't he leave clues of the murder in a specific neighbourhood to inspire reaction the murders?

As to incite Helter Skelter I believe, a revolt?

He told the group to leave the wallet of Mrs. La Bianca in a place where it would be found by a black person. The idea was that a black would find the wallet, use the credit cards and get blamed for the murders. But Linda Kasabian, dropped the wallet behind a toilet at a gas station. The police found it after her arrest right were she said it would be.

And in the Le Bianca case, because Manson himself tied up the victims, this was enough to charge him with murder, as he took an active part in causing the deaths.

The correlation between Jones and Manson is this: Jones started back in the 50's with a church setting that basiclly denounced "Standard Christian beliefs" he was a fundamentalist Pastor. And had a congragation that was inter-racial, unheard of at that time in history, in that location of the U.S. (Indiana to be exact)
Over time, he used his skills as a Pastor, and a leader to get people to follow his teachings. Brain-washing, mind control or what ever else you want to call it, needs time to work. The person who can convince others that his argument or ideas are based in anothers already imbedded belief system, makes it so much the easier to convert. (It may be noted that the cult leader may not know the final ending when they start out. Their intent may be completely different from the ending. But they begin to see how much of an effet they have on others and keep talking steps to further their own power.) Jones control took better than twenty years befor his demise, and yes he had people kill for him. He directly ordered the murder of Congressman Leo Ryan, and four others attempting to leave Jonestown.

Manson though, had a leg up on Jones and others like him, he took street kids, mostly teenagers when he found them/they found him, who were already outcast from society. Most were runaways or had other family troubles and were unwanted at home. Thus Charlie, became they're Family. It's a lot easier to convert a person to your way of thinking if they already have a reason to want to be converted.

I think most of those spouting manson's ideal have no clue what he was really all about. They think it was an anti-establishment movement, it really wasn't. It was a racially motivated idea, that if truth be known, would have never happened.

I agree particularly so in the Jones case where the followers were, in my opinion the creators of a false Idol . They wanted to believe and The good reverend was more than happy to give them something to believe in .

I can see totally how you arrived at your conclusions in regards to Jim Jones and Manson.

However I can also see, that maybe Jim Jones is nothing more then a perfected version of Manson. Where as Manson had the potential and the desire to wreak as much death and destruction as Jones but was simply not as effective at his craft.

Jones had to have been immensely more powerful then Manson, because he was able to convince 900 or something people to take their own lives. Manson convinced his people to kill others then try and hide the fact that they did it. But I don't think he was powerful enough to have them take their own lives. And as you said , his cult didn't take off where Jones built a large congregation as a result of his charisma

This was the final scene at Jonestown.

This is the undeniable truth regardless of his methods or the effectiveness there of!!!

I would have to say though that if you look at his goal, and then look at the manner in which he executed it (Manson) is nothing short of bumbling, where as a rational minded person with the same goal would have done it differently, so his method is that of a mental deffective.

The video clips I've seen of him confirm the idea of mental illness. Unless of course he was acting, then he would have the appearance of a mad genius, and as of yet I'm not ready to give him that classification of genius, the adjective 'mad' I'm partial to.

I would have actually suggested a permanent drug induced semi-psychosis .

Genius he certainly wasn't, most cult leaders tend to do terribly at school and Charlie was no diferent . He may well of had a heightened social intelligence . There are so many different areas of intelligence . I scored terribly on social intelligence in an I.Q test once . Shamefull it was .

Yes this is true, and as with his followers. The combination of psychedelic drugs and the power of suggestion is an effective one....ask the U.S Army:)

I can understand this....he just excelled on a more abstract social level......Manson's area of intelligence could have been one comparable to a good salesman......but other influences either environmental or genetic twisted it.

How ???????????????????????

How do you know society is any better while he is locked away.

For all we know if he was still free he could of Overdosed on something, commited suicide, been hit by a bus, thrown in an insane asylum, or have repented some how.

And he is an old man now, if he was let out now he wouldnt be able to do anything diabolical.

And even if he is running rampant around the USA, we here in Australia dont care.

thats a bit harsh you know johny loves bush lol but seiously some of us would care

Now theres a good reason for letting madmen out of prison

I've never been one for one word replies in posts, but when I read this one the first thing that came to mind was:

WTF?

Do you even know who we are talking about? What he did? Did you catch on the the part about the murders or did that slip your attention? We are talking about Charles Manson, not Marilyn Manson...

Manson was sick and twisted. I believe the correct word would be Bi-Polar..............

TNO