I`m just wondering what people think and believe about ancient civilisations trading and communicating with each other even though they were on different sides of the world. Because we are always finding artifacts from completly different civilisations being in the ruins of another civilisation...... like an aztec artifact/s being found in the ruins of another civilisation in the mediteterrain. Thats just one example of many incidences that this has occured.

I just thought it would be interesting to hear other peoples views and beliefs. Any links to sites or info on this would be greatly appreciated. I`m really into archeaology and want to become an archeaologist when I levave school and go to south america to study all the amazing cultures over there.

Sorry if this has already been done but I haven`t been here long and I`m just interested in this stuff.

Here's one link about cultural similarities and trade between Africa and South America..

Olmecs

There is also some indication of the Chinese making it to South America, Peru in particular. They found a mask with distinct asian looks. There is also the Pacific Islanders who had trade routes through many of the islands.

The ancient Egyptians also were supposed to have been to or had contacts with south america, as their is evidence of cocaine in the mummies, which could have only came from south america at the time.

I have wondered that myself. Here are a couple of links concerning the ancient Mexicans.

Mexican Archaeology
OLMEC 1
OLMEC 2

Here is a good website on the Olmec writing style.
OLMEC Writing

Here's a link about the Phoenicians possibly discovering the new world. And they were the kings of trade..

Phoenicia

I don't think the idea of trade of this nature is all that odd, or even that rare for that matter.

I'm sure there were many cultures in the past that felt no need to record their journeys and plot maps. I don't think there was any reason to. Most of our cultures explorers were in search of more land to farm, to supply more people, to build bigger armies, to take over more land, to raise crops to supply more people, to build armies....so on and so on.

There was a time were the cultures that existed only grew what food was necessary to survive. Exploration was a natural activity, where as it wasn't a necessity but more of a luxury.

I do believe a lot of modern cultures travels were in search of a North West passage, to avoid having to go around North and South america just to reach the other side that was open to the Orient.

When trade wasn't so much an issue I'm sure there were many adventurous souls who washed ashore in foriegn lands with only their immediate posessions, never to return to their homes.

There is little doubt that the ancients traded with one another. Egyptian mummies tested positive for cocaine and nicotine in over 1/3 of the cases. These were totally new world items! Check one article: http://www.uiowa.edu/~anthro/webcourse/los...st/coctrans.htm. Enter mummies, cocaine and nicotine into google and you will find hundreds of listings. Unless there was trade with the new world these substances should never have appeared in ancient Egyptian mummies!

There is evidence that many cultures exchanged goods and knowledge to build the wonderful monuments of history. I believe that there was a culture exchange. How, I don't know exactly. But I do believe there had to have been. Take the pyramids in South America. How were they built similar to the pyramids in Egypt? Somewhere down the line this knowledge had to have been passed down. Could it have been Atlantis or something more simple?

Everyone else pretty much summed up what I wanted to say. There is anecdotal evidence (similar cultural practices, unusual artifacts) as well as more solid data such as the previously mentioned mummy drug tests. It's a well established fact that the technology existed for trans-Atlantic travel. Regrettably I can’t remember his name but some professor decided to build a primitive reed boat to prove it. There is little literature to back up these theories currently but it's only a matter of time until they’re found imho. It’s not totally unexpected that references to the Americas might have been lost or simply too cryptic to have been given much notice thus far. It won't shake the foundations of history most likely but it will change some preconceived notions of how ancient civilizations interacted.

Umm... i have no idea if this topic is still open to discussion but hey I am writng anyways... For grade 11 history I wrote my final essay on how the Aztecs and Egyptians must have had some contact, whether trade or ancestry, I couldn't say... There are two good sites, that I used that are still up and running:

http://members.tripod.com/~kon_artz/cultur...es/egyptame.htm
http://www.ohooligans.com/weird_stuff_Eg_Az_sim.html

One is short and the other longer, but it could help you make up your mind... By the way, my teacher said it was "unheard of, and impossible" for interation to occur. She said that it wasn't historically accurate even though I had over 50 sources noted and supporting my point. I think she as part of a conspiracy.. she gave me a 62, and my essay did for a public speaking conference and came in first...

[Schziophrania beats dining alone]
[God is dead... Niezche]

I believe that many of the ancient civilizations traded the way we do today.
Another example: archeologists have found a small Buddha statue in the mist of Polynesian ruins in Hawaii.

Ancient civilizations DID contacted each other, and there were trade lines between places as far as Michigan and...Crete.

To be specific, in locations in Michigan and specifically in Laurium, there were discovered copper mines dated back to 1800 BC. In combination with some other artefacts found in the general North American continent, there was a safe conclusion that travelers from Minoan Civilization had crossed the Atlantic and established a somewhat not steady, yet periodically regular, copper way.

Other strong clues about ancient greek presence in America come from the Aztec language, which is almost identical to ancient greek dialects. This is also valid for the Mayan language, where e.g. the phrase "Konex omon panex", which means "go away stranger, leave" is impressively similar with the ancient greek "Konx om panx", with the same meaning.

Similar are the indications for ancient Egypt and Phoenician approaches in American continent.

Interesting links:
http://www.ancientgr.com/Unknown_Hellenic_..._in_America.htm
http://www.heliodromion.gr/e_araoukanoi.htm
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf098/sf098a01.htm
http://www.augustachronicle.com/stories/05...fea_floyd.shtml

I often wondered if the Lotophagi or 'Lotus eaters' of the North Coast of Africa had any influence from the Egyptians.

The Lotus Eaters did just that, ate the lotus plant, which renders a state of euphoria....some have said that soaking the lotus plant in wine for a few days, then drinking it will have the same effect as Viagra.

Most people know of the Lotus Eaters from Homer's 'Odyssey' and later from Tennyson's poem entitled 'The Lotus Eaters'. The race has always been described as a beautiful, peacful people. The original Star Trek did a version of this story, when the crew lands on a planet inhabited by a race that inhaled the pollen from an indigenious plant.....the crew had to be pulled away from this addictive practice.

The Egyptians had a penchant for the Blue Lotus as well. This is a symbol of the sun, of creation and rebirth. Because at night the flower closes and sinks underwater, at dawn it rises and opens again. According to one creation myth it was a giant lotus which first rose out of the watery chaos at the beginning of time. From this giant lotus the sun itself rose on the first day. It is also a symbol of Upper Egypt.

They were also known to eat the lotus after it was soaked in wine, and was known then to have sedative, or shamanic effects. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/lotus.htm
http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/..._waterlily.html

I wonder if this represents an influence, trade, exploration......or just a body of knowledge that was known to many ancient people?

Speaking of Lotus and other fruits...

According to some researchers, (Henriette Mertz, to name one), Hercules' labors can be traces of great explorations. In specific, the "Golden Apples of the Hesperides" is said to be a trip to America, from which Hercules brought back the "golden apples" (potatoes, according to the theory). Also, the info on "Esperides" is very interesting
Hesperides , in Greek mythology, daughters of Atlas. They lived in a fabulous garden located at the western extremity of the world.

Cute, huh?

Wow, never knew so many different cultures interacted!

I read something somewhere (gah, I'm awful at remembering sources) about evidence of Chinese settlements on the West coast of North America, debunking the fact that Columbus discovered America (and if the thing about the Greeks and/or Phoenicians reaching America is true, then America was discovered a looongg time before Columbus came).

I know this may be a bit far-fetched, but what if some Native Americans weren't descended from people that migrated over the ice shelf at all? What if they're really of Greek, Phoenician, or even an earlier civilization's descent? *ponders*

We (humans, I mean) must've developed boats fairly early in history, huh?

Everyone always refers to this land as America, but back then, it wasn't called America...I wish people would stop using the name. Just because the American colonies were established first doesn't mean this continent is just America. Granted it's called North America, but it had to have been called something else before settlement?

And yes, there is a high possibility that trade routes could have been made to (well, okay...let's get it out of the way) N. America long before the 'discovery' of this continent. Take in the similiarities between the Egyptian and Mayan culture; ie the pyramids. Yes, I know...I've already said this. But you have to admit the comparsion. How did two totally separate cultures evolve on two different continents thousands of miles apart and yet possess the same technology to built massive pyramids? There has to be something to it. Despite there's no true evidence to prove that a trade routine was sanctioned between the two continents, there must have been one regardless. The structures speaks for themselves.

well.. to the europeans.. it was first known as "LAND-HO"

then it was america.

If you look back over time at all the different civilisations there are so many that have some form of pyrmaid structure!!! Is this because they all interacted and traded with each other or is it just the simple reason which is that most civilisations wanted to get as close to the heavens as possible with theur structures, but because they only had stone and to work with they couldnt just build straight up but had to start with a massive base and get narrower as they went up. Its the only way they could build tall sturctures! Many of the ancient civilisations were masters at architecture so they knew that they had to build pyramid structures if they wanted to reach the heavens. Although maybe they just stole the idea off other civilisations and didnt have to find out the hard way what would happen if they tried to build staright up.

Lol sorry its a bit off topic but when it comes to anything about pyramids or ancient structures I love it and get carried away!

Regarding the Pyramids, I think it's makes more sense the fact that, as you said yourself, if they wanted to reach the heavens, the only was would be by building a pyramid. So, in a way, that leaves room for independant thinking and know-how. But it doesn't necessarily mean that there was no interaction between cultures.

What is interesting though, is that Pyramids in Egypt where built for burial purposes, while those in Central America for Ritual. Anyone knows what purpose served the Chinese ones?

Burial, I believe.

Yup. Here's a link describing the many pyramids found in China.

Very interesting. Thanks for the link.

Btw, check this:
http://www.ancientgr.com/Unknown_Hellenic_...IC_PYRAMIDS.htm

It's about Pyramids in Greece, which might not be very impressive or high, but they're quite old.

Seems like a great number of ancient cultures built pyramids. It's a more common form of architecture than I previously thought. Perhaps we all descended from a common ancestor who possessed the technology to build such pyramids, and then we spread out and different cultures applied the technology to their own form of pyramid building.

Two interesting photos about the trade between ancient cultures. This first one, is a table containing the basics of the Mayan language (Central America) and the Minoan Linear A language (Crete, Greece)

Impressive similarity, huh?

This 2d photo is comparison between Indian/Chinese artefacts (left column) with Central American ones (right column). Again, the similarities are impressive

Thanks for those pictures asterix they are really interesting!!! The similarities between different cultures and civilisations from many years ago are everywhere and it really does push the theory that most of them were in contact with one another and traded even though they are on different sides of the world!!

Any more pics, links or info would be greatly appreciated!!

4 different artefacts, found at
1) Greece
2) Columbia
3) Sicily
4) Peru

Finally, some links (some of them I might have posted again) and interesting books to search for..

http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly...y/aa080700a.htm
http://www.ancientgr.com/Unknown_Hellenic_...ng/Contents.htm
http://www.heliodromion.gr/e_araoukanoi.htm
http://www.cristobalcolondeibiza.com/2eng/2eng15.htm
http://www.kairatos.com.gr/omfaliokn.htm
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf098/sf098a01.htm

Charles M. Boland "They all discovered America"
Cyrus H. Gordon "Before Columbus"
Joseph C Ayoob "Ancient inscriptions in the New World"
R.A. Jairajbhof "Pharaoh and Olmecs"
Pierre Honore "The Pre-Columbian White God Mystery"
Clifford Simac "The Road Away"

I hope that's useful

The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

Wow!Thanks Asterix, this info is really appreciated! I`m hoping to become a archealogist and love all the ancient civilisations and basically any history of the human race. Are you just interested in this or are you in the profession? The history of the human race is just so damn interesting and I look forward to learning more from this forum and you!!!

Thanks again!!!

You're most welcome AztecInca. I'm not in the profession, I'm just very interested in ancient cultures and civilizations, like you, and especially in research for truth that could be different than the "truth" taught in school History classes.

Good luck with your research and your future studies!

To play devil advocate of sorts... why do we have to assume that these Civilizations were in direct contact with each other? I'd think that yes there were probally notable exporers who contacted other major cultures.

But more likely and plausible is that cultures traded with each other in a chain. The Spice Trade is a good example. Europe knew spices came from the Orient, but who did they directly trade with to get the spices? Follow the link and you'll see that there were multiple stops along the way. It wasn't until Marco Polo made his little trip that a direct link was established (that we know about.)

I can't tell you the link between South America and Egypt, perhaps the Phonecians tranported goods across the Atlantic between the two? Especially since Egypt's seamanship skills were mostly war ships.


Oh - and I forgot. Lewis and Clark write about how Native Americans traded with other tribes in a chain. Plains indians would trade buffalo hides with the Shosohone and Nez Pierce for horses and salmon. They would trade some of the buffalo hides and berries for Salmon from the Costal and Columbia river tribes. They even mention finding a tribe with metal trade articles such as an axe who said they had traded for it from another tribe.

Hi all,

Just recently in Ireland, (Waterford I think) they have discovered what they believe to be a viking trade settlement.

They have found items from other regions at the dig.

I cannot be more specific at this time as it has only just been discovered but already they are proclaiming it the most significant find of its kind outside Scandinavia...

Its also put a 20 million euro by-pass on hold for two years.......

Teddy.

And since Vikings were quite obsessed with after life issues, like e.g. Egyptians, and had the habit to burry lots of stuff, including whole ships, I believe in the future we're gonna see-hopefully-lots of Viking items discovered around the world. Well, where they have traveled anyway.. That is from North American continent to the depths of Siberia and Scythia...