I thought I'd start another conversation, this time about god, and the whole theory of existence. But this time I think there should be ground rules, 1. since all religions agree that there is some form of higher power, religion itself will not be discussed. 2. Everybody has to be civil.

I consider myself to be agnostic, leaning towards Christianity, because I grew up going to bible school and church camp. But, I've found that the more I question things, the more I tend to find new thoughts and theories that I incorporate into my spirituality, and that some of the old ideals I was brought up with just don't fit anymore. But I do believe in a god, in some form.

To me, the existence of god is based on the law of entropy. This law states that, when left alone, over time systems naturally fall apart. Since things don't, in fact, there's an endless cycle of death and rebirth happening all the time, all around us, everywhere in the universe, something is holding things together. This force that keeps things going, to me, is god.

I'm looking forward to hearing everyone else's thoughts.

I think I'll probably cover all of this for me on the other thread, so I don't want to take up too much space here where other folks can have thier say. But in short, sometimes prayers are answered. Sometimes miracles do happen. And some things really can't be explained. I could interpret this in a number of ways, but to me it just feels like God.
I never considered the law of Entropy in relation to God before. It's an intriguing thought, Snuffy..

So far so good.....

Reasons I believe in God:

1) In terms of the world : The universe feels very intentional - all planatary systems that leads to intelligent life - all fields of invisible force that underlies and maintain physical/chemical behaviours

2) In terms of humanity : The bible is just too ridiculously simple and accessible for all to understand, yet it is powerful to change people. Look at the impact it has on history and how many are believing. I cannot believe it is a human device to create a hoax of this scale from some 2000 yrs ago.

3) Too many demonic pheomenon/apparition in the world, only helps to prove God's existence for me.

4) Good / Evil / Love and the lack of it seems to be an important theme in human life. It's like the human experience has cut into the spiritual dimension purposefully.

5) I just think I'll lose really big if there is a God and I don't believe in him.

6) If there is a God, what will he be like? The love all and die for us is all is like piercing through all kinds of talk of powers of God in different cultures and make me awestruck: this is truly God.

I don't believe in god, I guess its because I feel science provides the answers and I've never seen any proof in him. I'm also sceptical of reasons such as their being thousands upon thousands of different religions throughout time, just seems if there was a god wouldn't there be only one religion.

This is hard, there are so many reasons, it would take forever to go through and list them all, and I probably miss some. So no idea, just the path I follow.

As for a deity that was out creator and will judge us when we die...well i think some people need to think that. Not that its bad to think that, it keeps you in check unless you abuse it- excessive 'forgiveness' from a god that you cant communicate directly to cant be healthy.

About god. God, to me is the platform in which all of life is possible. It is everything that there is. We humans happen to be free willed thinking parts of god.
It is my opinion that our souls are mirror images of the true essence of god. we are here to experience. After here we move on to another experience.And so on... All to figure out what we are, in order to become a platform in which all of life is possible.

I don`t believe in any god that humans have thought up but I do believe there may be some superior ultimate being that watches us and keeps time and the universe going. I don`t believe it can just interfer in our lives or that of any other intelligent species unless there is some majore imbalance in the universe. It is up to us to help ourselves and survive in this universe and there won`t be any superior being to come and save us.

I do believe religion is good for some people but its not for me.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

I suppose I believe in God because I was taught that from birth. However, at one point in time, I found myself lying on a helicopter deck on an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico looking up at the stars. Just me and the universe. And I concluded instantly and passionately that there was no God. There was absolutely no way that God or anyone or anything could have created all that. It was just too infinite.

Since that time I have experienced many times 'unbelievable instances' where it was truly 'me against the universe'....and for a surety it was only my faith in God that got me through those times.

As it is is incomprehensible to me how substance came into being, it is logical that it was created by God. Although it is also incomprehensible to me how God came into being.

In short, it is a combination of the way I was raised and what I have seen in other peoples lives (including my own) that I believe in God.

What a question! I was raised into a rather strict catolic family. So as a child I was taught quite a git about both GOD and Jesus. My parents were divorced when I was 9. After that the strictness faided. When I reached my teenage years I became rather defiant. I also question the fact that there realy was a GOD. Shortly after I turned 17 I started to have OBE and Astral Projection experiences. I knew nothing of them, so this was very frightening to me. I believe it was the 2cd or 3rd OBE I had, I saw adark shadow lurking around my body. I of course scared out of witts started to pray. I prayed to God and Jesus "Please make me wake up" over and over again. I then saw a vision of Jesus, he was signaling me to get up. I then reached for him, and woke up. That was the 1st of the 5 visions of Jesus I have had in my lifetime. So, I don't have to rely on faith that there is a God, I know there is one!

Dont believe because - How can you believe in something based entirely on storytelling, legends and speculation. Anyone heard of Chinese whispers, well religion has had thousands of years of that! I have had no proof. Believers, trees, lakes and animals does not constitute proof in my book as I believe in science. In the case of Christianity all the ancient millions of years old fossils 'were put there by God as a test ' come on, do me a favour!

People live thier lives according to what they believe in . I think that god is the source of thier beliefs. Be it science, art, the bible, the koran...etc, everyone is localized to a certain set of conditions.
Most seem to be nurtured..Choiceless. Tradition...It is how we are raised. They are rules and ideals that have already been decided for us.
God is the curse of the modern human being. *We translate every living moment in terms of the old*.
So what is God to Moe? God is a prison that his ancestors created for him. And he wants to be set free.





*quote by Bruce Lee.

As Falco said, I'll cover this in depth on the other thread, if fact to some extent I already did, but in short.....

I don't believe in 'god' per say, as pratchett say's "It only encourages them"

There are things we relate to in that way, but they are not 'god', simply aspects of the universal energy (Snuffy's binding force) anthropomorphised and constructed of our collective psyche and viewed through our own subconsious understanding of the universe.

As for why I believe..... In thirty years of walking various mystical and meta-physical paths I've experienced and worked with the divine in many diffrent ways, yes, even as archetypal gods. and each time I've been able to feel that same connective energy behind them as well as see aspects of myself in them (From how I'd accessed the archetype). Some of what I experienced I can explain in scientific rational (I'm a sceptic and a scientist at heart.... first thing I look for is evidence that I'm somehow being fooled or that I am fooling myself!).... other experiences defy scientific annalysis (Probably because our science has not reached far enough yet) and in those circumstances, where there is no proof or disproof, you are left with belief

First we need to establish what "God" is. You consider God an inteligent complex being who conciously started everything right? And this God is tied with a certain religion or not?

Great thread Snuffy!

My beliefs that God exists are based mostly on pure faith! I feel was lucky to be raised in a Christian family.

Some people might say the only reason that I believe in God is because I was taught to believe since birth... and although there is some merrit to that... I did go through my phase of doubt and wondering what if God did not exist ... but as an adult I chose my own beliefs. I was saved at age 5 but of course didn't fully understand the bible and the christian beliefs .. it was pretty much taught to me through my parents. But at age 21 I re-dedicated my life to Christ... after realizing that my faith was stronger than even I could imagine.

I see that time in my life as the test.... and it made my faith stronger... I know 100% in my heart that God is, and has been, and always will be.

I know it is hard for some people to understand blind faith.... but I do not have any scientific proof that God exists nor do I need it .... My proof of his existance is the wonderful blessings and answered prayers in my life. Of course I have had hard times and heartaches... but God has always given me the strength to move on and get through these tough times and I know without him and my relationshiop with God... I would not have the strength or life I have today.

I am truly blessed!

Take care all!
Nxt2Hvn

Could you please give more information on entropy?

First, gotta give ya mad props, oh Snuffy one, for starting this thread. You've got guts.


I was brought up with a polytheistic/animistic kinda religion. I always believed in god(s) because I had a lot of really weird experiences with spirits when I was growing up. The existence of some form of deity was never a question for me.

Also, the physical world and human beings just has far too much intentionality to them. I've always had a marked admiration for scientists and science/technology, but I just couldn't reconcile scientific materialism with the fact that human beings live their lives in a constant search for origin, meaning, morality, and destiny.

The reality of evil compelled me to believe in god as well. I witnessed some pretty monstrous stuff, and I'm aware of the evil we humans have performed in history. This drove me to believe in a god because it seemed that evil was a perversion of good, not a necessary or intended part of why the universe and human beings are here. What horrified me more was the feeling that somehow I was complicit in some of the evil being done.

I felt that goodness as a reality and as a goal had to point to some kind of deity. Basically, the fact that a frequently- crazy world produces beautiful, brilliant, loving people also pointed me to a god. Also, just the sheer beauty of the world gave me a sense that some huge somethingness had a keen artistic brush-stroke.

Lastly, I have had miraculous experiences with God that led to and sprang from my conversion to Jesus eleven years ago. The greatest of these was a revelation of God's love (I was 19 when this happened).

Well I've read a lot of people on this thread talk about a 'force' or life 'glue' that holds everything together.

I personally can not figure out why this force is personafied. To personify this force I see as caused from a lack of accurate description. Example: if the satellite thats viewing the earth's rotation right now (Gravity Probe returns evidence of this force......would people still call it God? If a string theory is finally found.....would people still call it God?
http://einstein.stanford.edu/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/

Because I feel that this force is able to be logically found through deduction and experiement, then I cannot diefy it. A matter of fact I have and never will worshipp or diefy anything.....but thats just me.

Now I can not blame anyone for personifying this force....after all we have yet to unify these forces of nature into a single definition. So the personification is an understandable temporary belief.....as I see it.

It is clear to me that good and evil are part of the same force. These two intricate energy forces are better described as positive and negative......we know that these two forces are absolutely necessary for life to exist.......How well would the very atoms that make up our being form, without positive and negative forces?

Our goal should be to amplify the positive forces, live within the positive force and exude it to our fellows. If everyone exuded this positive force then there would be a less pressing need to eradicate the negative force of life in the name of a human invented personification of these forces.....the negative force can not ever be destroied, but it can be out shined!

Realizing that this personification of energy is mans attempt at explaining it, I can then see that this force is not intelligent in the sense that some feel. For this energy does not know your actions, this force does not communicate with the individual, because it is an energy it cannot differentiate between individuals. It does not know Chauncy it can not distinguish between Chauncy and any other life form.

So as a result of these realizations I see worship and diefication as a method that some humans use to totally submit themselves to a powerful force that they can not explain. As if to say that this force is so powerful and unexplained that I'm going to appease it , just in case it is intelligent and just in case it gets angry.

I firmly believe that in our ancient and pre-history we did know this force, we were in tune with it and we could apply it to many different areas of living science. This force was understood as a universal thread, a common weave. The books of today that continue to personify this force were made in reference to those of our ancient past that could manipulate this force to commit wonderous results.

There for I believe that the personification of this force is an exact hinderence to becoming in tune with it, indeed the deification of this force will prevent an individual from becoming in tune with it and thus understanding it. Its because I believe this that I can see why the personification of this force has been encouraged by the leaders that be since the earliest days of our cultures.

i believe in god because to me, it just makes sense. i don't see it as a personal god, like the traditional wetsern beliefs have, with god being a "him" or a "her", ya know, personifying it. i tend to think it makes more sense that it'd be an impersonal force, with spurts of consciousness.

i DON'T believe in religion at all though. i find religion hypocritical and foul.

i used to have to go to church when i was little with my cousins because they were mormon...but thats all over by now... now i believe in Juliaism my own religion lol but if there is a god he would be a purple asian jew in my opinion.
but i do have a question....
how come when you see all these paintings of Jesus..hes always white....and always has blue eyes..brown long hair...i mean do people really know what he looks like for sure?? he could also be a purple asian jew lol

Jesus is not always depicted as having blue eyes and white skin, back during the time of Constantinople, he was depicted as having brown eyes and dark olive skin, the colour has changed over the years to accomodate personal taste.

He always has had brown hair though.

I think that only the most uneducated think that Jesus was white, Anti-Girl. Unfortunately that covers a large segment of the population. I think the image of him as a white man has become embedded in Western society merely because that's the way he was portrayed for so long. So when you say Jesus, an image of a brown-haired Caucasion springs instantly to mind, whether you believe he looked like that or not. Blame it on cultural conditioning and intellectual laziness...

As most of you know from other threads, I don't believe in God and I don't really like the word because of the connotations surrounding it. I prefer to keep with facts and get on with my life.

well nxt2hvn told me to play nice so here goes!

im buddhist and therefore i do not believe in god!

i do howver believe that a wise man once gave up his wife, money and everything he knew to find a better way of life, this man then got followers who followed him because the things he talked of made good moral sense. this man then taught many more and thus a new philosophy of life was born!

that man was the first buddha

what he gave us was not blind faith, but a structured philosophy of how to live a good life, and whether it be your faith or whether it just be a passing interest, the advice is still valid and is as worthwhile for one person as the next!

so go forth and be good, its all you can ask of youself!

p.s. the next time you hear anyone buying a buddha for luck or rubbing a buddha for luck, go tell them to rub a crucifix instead, for it is an insult to think that a deity, especially a sculpture/carving of a simple man, for luck is acceptable!

lmao for all we know he could have been a white...or black or asian or hindi or w.e u want...wanna be gansta who lived to help people lol

Snuffy has a really good thread going here... and has been really on topic for the most part... and I am really enjoying it.

I ask that a Mod PLEASE warn against the immature replies that are being made... and to please keep this open for mature and intelligent replies.

Thanks,
Nxt2Hvn

oh lol and no ones making ya reply to my lil posts lol if u think they are immature then fine lol by all means keep on with the original topic

That includes you Anti_girl17.

I have already posted my beliefs once ....so...

...I would just like to offer an overview of this thread:

It is a thread where you post your beliefs, what ever they are....

It is not a thread where you comment on other's beliefs....that is where all
'religious' or God oriented threads start to go down hill....

Just state your beliefs and leave other's posts alone and I think this will be a fruitful and long-lived thread....

Well said (or typed) joc,

Jesus is said to have been born into the Jewish faith, as his mother and Joseph were both Jews. Due to the area that he grew up in or, if you like, was born in, Jesus would have had olive coloured skin, and not have been pure white.

I beleive in God completely. Always did. He created everything...but not evil.
I can't beleive that everything came from nothing by itself. Many of my prayers have been answered even though I did not deserve them at all. God does exist
he is freedom not a prison. His laws are to protect us from others and ourselves.
His love is so complete that we can not understand it. In one of the posts it was said that when others say he doesn't exist or he is wrong it fuels the fire of christians...it does and always will....and thats beautiful. Everyone has a right to their opinion but evil has no right to express it or even be against God ever.
I am not a very good person...but I know people who are and they are christians who not only beleive but live the life. Even in futility good is logical, because it hurts nobody and it leads to happiness. In God there is no fultility...only if your againt him and his son. The Bible...too perfect...too good....too much love....too real and too helpfull to be the work of man.

Arkaus

Good and evil, I think, are two separate forces that come from the same source, if that makes sense to you at all. As humans, we have the ability to perform both, at all times. It's the choices we make that determine where we go in life. As for the devil, I don't believe in the devil as such, it's all us. In the same way that god is us, really.

I call the force that holds things together god for lack of a better way to describe it. Also, things are held together so well, in the way things balance out and such, that there has to be something overseeing it all. Religion arose as a way to explain why we're here and what this source of life is. Religion itself isn't a bad thing, it's the people in charge of disseminating the religion, the ones that corrupt the original message, that are the ones causing all the trouble in the name of god, not god him/her/itself.

Deifying god does not prevent you from getting in touch with it. In fact, as a human you're supposed to get in touch with god. Reaching for something bigger than yourself is a natural human trait. Bah, I think I'm saying that right.

Depends on what one means.

Do I believe in the Judao-Christian-Muslim god? Not really.

I do however believe in multible deities. Why? In the grand scheme of my being, it feels better for me. Just like believing in a single god, feels right to whoever is so inclined =)

I see snuffy. You beleive that all people are reaching towards this power that holds all things together.

I wanted to add something to my first post, but the thread has gotten so long i think it might go overlooked.

It is my personal opinion that to worship any monument, statue, deity ,cross, or whatever anyone chooses to worship, you place whatever you are worshiping above yourself. As if it is better than you are. I dont believe in that.

I believe that since everything is god, No one thing, person, or deity, is any better than another and to place anything 'above' yourself is only limiting yourself.

Belief is a very powerful thing. Reality is only what you percieve. Make sure you believe what is right for you.

I always thought of the deification as a personal thing, just a way to wrap your head around the idea. That's the way I see it, anyway.

I see what UA is saying, and I agree to a point. But I also think that by reaching for something higher, or better, if that's the way you want to put it, than yourself, you make yourself better in the process.

I see the points you're making Chauncy, and I think many of them are valid. But I think that as we are all part of god, I don't think that god is a separate force that we can't reach out and grasp.