snookems
Jun 17 2004, 09:43 AM
Hi all
I'm new to these forums
I wondered if anyone can help me?Their was a feature length ducumentary about the Bermuda triangle shown at the cinemas in the uk around 77-79.It also had another documentary shown with it about tornados,ufo's and I can also remember part of it contained the philidelphia experiment.
Can anybody remember the title of this as I would love to see it again.Any help would be appreciated.
Starlyte
Jun 17 2004, 04:12 PM
I might have found what you're looking for.....
Bermuda Triangle (1979)
doomgirl
Jun 22 2004, 03:47 AM
Welcome to the forum snookems
AffinityForEvil
Jul 2 2004, 07:25 PM
Have any of you ever been there? That is one place i really want to go to. I nned to know what happens to the people who dissipeer. I want to no what really happens. Wonder if its aliens?
Phantom
Jul 2 2004, 07:27 PM
Darklordxion666,
Check your Private Message box. Thank you.
neosnightmare
Jul 15 2004, 10:18 PM
it would be awesome to go to the bermuda triangle. my grandfather went when he was in the navy or something. i never really asked him about it. now i wish i did.
aquatus1
Jul 15 2004, 11:23 PM
Hate to disappoint, but I worked in that region for two years. Didn't see a single thing that could be considered mysterious.
Babs
Jul 16 2004, 02:18 AM
I was flying to the Bahamas when the pilot came on the speaker and told us to look out our windows to see the Bermuda Triangle...well where it started. He said the airline had to stay clear of the area and could only fly right outside the triangle...to more or less stay behind
that line. He said it was because of insurance reasons. I wonder what that meant?
aquatus1
Jul 16 2004, 03:27 AM
Can't imagine. This is the single most heavily traveled region near the United States area. Any insurance company that won't cover traffic through here is going to loose out on a massive chunk of customers.
Ancient World Wonders
Jul 19 2004, 03:08 PM
Richard Crena hosted a special on the Bermuda Triangle about 5 years ago called 'Secrets of the Bermuda Triangle' -- if I can remember correctly. It showed on both A&E and TLC (The Learning Channel).
KindredSpirt4125
Jul 19 2004, 04:03 PM
I actually just watched a special on it the other day on the History Channel. They said that they think they figured out the mystery surrounding the Bermuda Triangle. They said that the disapearences were caused by Methane bubbles erupting under the ocean, and that it would create massive tidal waves that no boat could survive. And their explanation for the missing planes is that when the methane gas was released from the water, it floated up in the air, and when a plane would pass through it the signals would screw up and the plane would litterally drop out of the sky, because Methane gas is much lighter then air, so it couldn't hold up the plane. They've ton much research and many experiments to prove this theory. Sounds like it could be true, but I'd still like to think it's something more mysterious, then just gas bubbles. I mean.. where's the excitement in that?
Asterix
Jul 19 2004, 04:56 PM
| QUOTE |
| They said that the disapearences were caused by Methane bubbles erupting under the ocean |
I've read about the same theory, and I agree that it would explain some of the accidents, but I fail to see how does it explain about the electronic anomalies so common with the disappearences. Also, the methane bubbles theory assumes that whatever happened, happened within seconds. Which is not the case with many of the disappearences, like flight 19, in which the planes were facing troubles for many hours
Pendekar Timur
Jul 19 2004, 06:05 PM
hey.....
anybodies ever goin fishin there...??
KindredSpirt4125
Jul 19 2004, 06:18 PM
| QUOTE (Asterix @ Jul 19 2004, 05:56 PM) |
| QUOTE | | They said that the disapearences were caused by Methane bubbles erupting under the ocean |
I've read about the same theory, and I agree that it would explain some of the accidents, but I fail to see how does it explain about the electronic anomalies so common with the disappearences. Also, the methane bubbles theory assumes that whatever happened, happened within seconds. Which is not the case with many of the disappearences, like flight 19, in which the planes were facing troubles for many hours
|
I know, some of the stuff just doesn't fit. Which is good, cause I always hoped it was something mystical like aliens or portholes, something unexplainable, not boring like bubbles.
reese2
Jul 19 2004, 06:29 PM
My man's ship has gone through the triangle about 6 times...
aquatus1
Jul 19 2004, 06:40 PM
The bubbling of the water from the methane would create an ion cloud that would effect some electronic equipment. That's how they explained it, anyway (in practical application, not so much). What they didn't explain is how methane deposits would form in that area in the first place.
This is a classic example of putting a theory before the data. Before you find an explanation, before you try to solve the mystery, before you decide that methane, aliens, wormholes, or what have you are the solution, you have to ask a very important first question!
"Is there anything anomalous about the Bermuda Triangle" region?"
In other words, before solving the mystery, you have to make sure that a mystery exists. And, as is usually the case in these matters, it does not.
First you remove all the events that have already been explained, such as Flight 19, which has been proven several times over to be the result of pilot error leading the planes out to sea instead of back to land.
Then you remove all the exagerations and outright fabrications. This includes boats that slipped their mooring lines, boats caught in storms, and boats sinking due to accidents. If you want to make it easy on yourself, pick up one of Charles Berlitz's books and discount all the examples he shows (you may assume I have little respect for that man's research abilities.)
Then you strip away all the subjective data, such as mediums declaring that it is the resting place of atlantis, or paranatural researchers claiming it is a cosmic twining point of interstellar wormholes for aliens (kind of like a Star Trek truck stop).
What are you left with? An certain number of crashes and sinking for which no information is available. Is this strange? Not in and of itself. The ocean is remarkably adept at hiding evidence, and not all accidents leave floatsam or oil slicks. So we check the statistics. Considering the absurdly large amount of traffic through this region, including daily flights to Key West, cruises to Bermuda, intercontinetal flights, and various passenger routes that turn this region into the single most heavily traveled area in the United States area, the amount of crashes is actually a little on the low side. If you were to check and area such as the Great Lakes, you would find a higher amount of unexplanied crashes.
Incidentaly, "unexplained" means just that: There is no explanation available. It does not mean that there were aliens, wormholes, or methane. It simply means that there is not enough data to draw a conclusion.
In all cases, the Bermuda Triangle mystery is nothing more than exagerated story telling due, in large part, to Charles Berlitz's irritating habit of , when unable to find good evidence, making it up instead.
reese2
Jul 19 2004, 06:48 PM
Where did you get that from?
aquatus1
Jul 19 2004, 11:05 PM
Which part?
reese2
Jul 19 2004, 11:06 PM
The entire thing... Or did you write this?

I thought you had gotten this from somewhere, and forgot to post a link
BurnSide
Jul 19 2004, 11:09 PM
I've seen hundreds of Bermuda Triangle documentaries where they actually went to the BT and found these methane vents in the Triangle. They not only proved that the methane gas effected electrical equipment, but also that it created a think fog.
Just like aquatus said.
aquatus1
Jul 19 2004, 11:31 PM
The only problem with the methane is that the deposits are only the minimal ones you find all over the ocean floor. All the seriously large deposits are usually well monitored by the oil platforms on top of them (they tend to be where the oil is at). I once saw a safety video of a platform being swallowed by a methane cloud. It was impressive and freaky. The whole thing disappeared in minutes. Later on, divers where only able to find a few melted slags from the rig.
As for the ion effect, you can actually test this yourself next time you go hiking by a moderately sized waterfall. I think you'll find that your GPS reader, while hardly non-functional, will have a few quirks you didn't have before.
But, as I said before, the deposits are so small that the methane will sometimes not even make it to the surface and just be absorbed by the sea water. This is just a theory in search of a phenomena which doesn't exists.
Oh, and Reese, I will take it as a compliment that you consider my writing to be at the professional level. ;-)
reese2
Jul 20 2004, 01:16 AM
| QUOTE |
| Oh, and Reese, I will take it as a compliment that you consider my writing to be at the professional level. ;-) |
You definately should.. It was very well written and concise..... I dig it...
I also happen to lean towards the methane theories...
Reese
Asterix
Jul 20 2004, 07:40 AM
| QUOTE |
| First you remove all the events that have already been explained, such as Flight 19, which has been proven several times over to be the result of pilot error leading the planes out to sea instead of back to land. |
I agree on the conlusion, that the planes were lost due to navigational error and eventually crashed in the ocean (some ppl believe that they crashed in the Florida swamps). But still, there are some questions left unanswered. For example, how did the flight leader, Charles Taylor, such an experienced airman, with 2500+ hours in his log, many of them in the area, made so many mistakes. Rookie-like mistakes. Not only he lost his way, in a clear day, when even if all compasses and gyros were out, he could still find his way westwards following the sun, but he repeatedly refused any help he was given. He also did not change frequencies according to the instructions given to him.
So, even if there is no mystery (aliens/atlantians/magic holes) regarding the flight's resulting situation, there are still many questions to be answered regarding the actual reasons.
aquatus1
Jul 20 2004, 03:09 PM
| QUOTE |
| But still, there are some questions left unanswered. For example, how did the flight leader, Charles Taylor, such an experienced airman, with 2500+ hours in his log, many of them in the area, made so many mistakes. Rookie-like mistakes. Not only he lost his way, in a clear day, when even if all compasses and gyros were out, he could still find his way westwards following the sun, but he repeatedly refused any help he was given. He also did not change frequencies according to the instructions given to him |
Well, this is all speculation on my part, with a little investigation thrown in. I base the speculation on my two years as a Naval Aviation Maintanence Officer aboard the G.W. and the Kennedy.
Pilots...are a proud breed. Even more so in the past. While the modern pilot will admit his mistakes (at least, to his fellow pilots), leadership in the past was a bit more absolute, in that the leader made the choices and the rest followed without comment. Now, as for Taylor, most of those 2500 hours were not in the area. In fact, he had very little experience in that area, the majority of his time having been spent in the Bahamas region. Also, add to that an additional stressor: The pilots flying with him were students! This is something that is usually left out of the stories. Student pilots, even more than regular pilots, would be less likely to contradict their flight leader.
Now, you stated that he lost his way in a clear day. He did not. Visibility on that day was cloudy. In fact, you probably recall one of his transmissions stating that he saw the Florida keys through a gap in the clouds. Let's be very clear about this. It was not a perfect day when Flight 19 disappeared. It was cloudy, it was overcast, and a few hours later, a storm set in that produced fifty foot waves in the area the planes (including one of the rescue crafts) went down.
So, let's get back to Taylor. He was lost. He knew he was lost. He had the lives of students in his hands and he didn't know where he was going. The only thing he knew was that he had spotted the Florida Keys underneath him (he had spent the majority of his flight time in that area right? He would certainly be able to recognize these islands, right?). Unfortunetely, that quick glimpse through the clouds wasn't enough. He saw a series of islands and assumed they were the Keys. From here, everything fell apart.
Because he though that the islands were the Keys, he assumed, incorrectly, that they had flown South instead of East. To his mind, then, it meant that Florida had to be to the East. His pilot's pride, his confusion, his mistaken location, all this added together made up his decision to fly East. He wasn't flying that way because he didn't know what direction he was going. He was flying East because he though that was where land was. He was convinced that the ground operator that he was speaking to was incorrect (had he been in greater contact with them, as pilots today are, he might have had more confidence in the lad) and did almost a 180 degree turn away from the instructed plan, all based on what he thought was correct. Pilot error, all the way.
As you see, there is really no mystery here. Just the sad, sad, proof of what happens when a pilot's pride and self-confidence exceeds his abilities, and when he decides that he has a better sense of direction than his equipment.
Asterix
Jul 20 2004, 04:29 PM
I admit, aquatus, that I did not know many of the useful details you have mentioned. I didn't know that Taylor didn't have experience in the area, and I didn't know that the rest of the pilots/crew in the mission were students. And also I thought (probably I had read somewhere) that the day was clear.
And I agree with you, that the pilots are a...special breed. And like you said:
| QUOTE |
| what happens when a pilot's pride and self-confidence exceeds his abilities, and when he decides that he has a better sense of direction than his equipment. |
One last thing. Is it your opinion/information that what happened with the compasses is that only Taylor's malfunctioned but the rest of the crew, even if their compasses worked OK, didn't contradict their leader's instructions? Coz this is another known issue with this story, that it's really strange for all 5 compasses to stop working at the same time.
KindredSpirt4125
Jul 20 2004, 04:50 PM
| QUOTE (BurnSide @ Jul 20 2004, 12:09 AM) |
I've seen hundreds of Bermuda Triangle documentaries where they actually went to the BT and found these methane vents in the Triangle. They not only proved that the methane gas effected electrical equipment, but also that it created a think fog. Just like aquatus said. |
The documentary about the methane, that premiered on the History Channel was called "Dive to the Bermuda Triangle" and I just check their website, and it's supposed to air again on August 1st, but I'd check your local listings first. If you beleive it or not, it's still pretty interesting to watch!
aquatus1
Jul 20 2004, 06:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Is it your opinion/information that what happened with the compasses is that only Taylor's malfunctioned but the rest of the crew, even if their compasses worked OK, didn't contradict their leader's instructions? Coz this is another known issue with this story, that it's really strange for all 5 compasses to stop working at the same time |
Okay, this is another example of Berlitz's imaginative approach to research. While he did start the story of the clear day, and all the compasses malfunctioning, we actually only have Taylor stating his compass wasn't working properly, for a short period during the flight. Now, the implication, and what I believe as well, is that some of the other compasses were not working as well (I'll get to that in a minute), but as far as facts go, we really have no idea how many malfunctions there were.
Now, modern strike fighter craft have, at a minimum, two compasses: and electric one, and a magnetic one. Most pilots also carry one in their bag, though we would like to discourage that. The reason for this is because standard compasses, for some reason, ocassionaly give a false reading or an undecipherable reading. There is a current theory that this is caused by the electric field created by the stressed metal portions of the craft. In the old aircraft, the "Iron Birds", this effect was much greater than in today's composite aircraft, but electric compasses were not available in those days. Considering that all of Flight 19 was practicing aerial maneuvers, it is entirely likely that each plane went through the same movements, and the stresses of those movements produced enough field to confuse the compasses. Taylor should have had experience with this, even if he didn't understand the science behind it. Compasses simply failed on occasion, and given a little time, they would return to normal (which the one on Flight 19 eventually did). There is no doubt in my mind that he confirmed with the other pilots what was going on, and didn't worry too much more about it. The other pilots may or may not have understood why the compasses didn't work, but I do not believe this created any sort of panic.
The problem lay when Taylor saw the islands. By assuming they were the Keys, he was unable to calculate his location. GPS wasn't around back then, and the only thing that pilots could rely on was dead reckoning and landmarks. With the compass out of commision, the landmarks not making sense, along with diminishing fuel (they had been flying for a while now), that is what I believe caused Taylor to react instinctively instead of logically.
Asterix
Jul 22 2004, 10:12 AM
Very interesting information aquatus. Thank you
ames2787
Aug 14 2004, 01:36 PM
Hey if everyone here is interested in the Bermuda Triangle I have a website about it, it is part of my Mysteries Online Website... every week theres a new mystery which the public vote on... this monday it looks very likely that the Bermuda Triangle is going to win... you can wait til Monday to check it out or just go straight to the exclusive to this forum link:
www.angeltowns2.com/members/mysteries/bermudatriangle.htm
Leave messages in the guestbook about it if you like it or post on here - whatever suits everyone best!
Cheers
Amy
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