Full Version: Dinosaur Extinction
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yesterday there was an article on this site saying that christian paleontologists found evidence that the dinosaurs died in Noah's flood. since many scientists believe that the dinosaurs were killed by a meteor, I think the flood may have been caused by a giant meteor strike. It would have boiled the sea, and made a big rainstorm that may have lasted for 40 days and 40 nights. Any opinions?
I'm more than a little skeptical when Christian Scientists find "Evidence" since they use whatever they find strictly to back up what they already believe rather than viewing it from an objective position..
I'd be more impressed if they merely published findings without extra theological theories added on to them..
I'd be more impressed if they merely published findings without extra theological theories added on to them..
i think so too, but one of my chosen tasks in life, is to try and figure out ways what others say can be true, wouldn't want to break someone's spirit now would we.
It depends. A broken spirit can be a good thing if what comes out of it is a better and stronger person..
I have a problem with interpreting the timeline in the Bible. The Noah's flood occured relatively soon in the human history, right? Few thousand years ago. While dinosaurs are exinct for millions of years. I am not aware of any facts claiming that biblical people and dinosaurs lived together... So I cannot accept the theory of the christian scholars...
When it comes to those that try to manipulate things to get their way, it only makes them angrier.
Then let it be anger. I just don't want to smile and nod at somebody just to make them happy. Responding with anger to any discussion of a scientific subject is specious at best, and reveals much about a persons' beliefs and state of mind..
If they can't take a few slings and arrows then their beliefs may not be as solid as they believe..
If they can't take a few slings and arrows then their beliefs may not be as solid as they believe..
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...9830503-7531008
I read this earlier, may be it can give you some insight of ealier biblical time history of the middle east which IMO is less biased than the old testament. Also gives you an idea of the hypothetical timeline of the events concerned which has a flavour of realism.
I read this earlier, may be it can give you some insight of ealier biblical time history of the middle east which IMO is less biased than the old testament. Also gives you an idea of the hypothetical timeline of the events concerned which has a flavour of realism.
We find dinosaurs of different types all huddled together, like in mass dinosaur graves.
If we think of what force would sweep across an area and collect everything and deposite them in one spot.....a mudslide or flood would be correct.
The "Christian" guy automatically wants to prove Noah's flood true, so everything he does will be bias from the get go.....propagandist....why does he do this?.....because there are lots of christians who NEED to hear these things and thats who he is catering to......its a shame really.
There has been floods all over, there still are floods all over. There is NO evidence of a GLOBAL flood 4000 years ago.
A meteor impact would create the force necessary to render the dino's the way we find them.......sudden quick deaths millions of years ago!!
If we think of what force would sweep across an area and collect everything and deposite them in one spot.....a mudslide or flood would be correct.
The "Christian" guy automatically wants to prove Noah's flood true, so everything he does will be bias from the get go.....propagandist....why does he do this?.....because there are lots of christians who NEED to hear these things and thats who he is catering to......its a shame really.
There has been floods all over, there still are floods all over. There is NO evidence of a GLOBAL flood 4000 years ago.
A meteor impact would create the force necessary to render the dino's the way we find them.......sudden quick deaths millions of years ago!!
Yes dino time does not overlap with early human history, and a possible flood in mediterranean area can easily be cross referenced with cultural myths (possibly confined to that area) with geological activities/conditions specation. I recommend the book mentioned earlier as a reasonable amount of archaelogical research has also gone into it. 
I am not trying to smile to protect other's feelings, but too many people poke too many holes in too many things already, about time someone tried to help the ones saying these things, and coming up with very possible ideas about them.
I think according to the bible Noahs Flood happened about 2300bc or something, which probably isnt correct, but there is some evidence that there was a great flood that occured much earlier, which is probably where the bible got the story from.
Still there is no proof the Great Flood ever happened, just a few signs pointing towards it.
It is a good thing that some people are challenging conventional views though, if noone did we would still be in the dark ages, but for once it is the christians who are doing so.
I like the theory that the extinction cycle wiped them out(or most of them) and if any survived they were wiped out by something else more recently.
Still there is no proof the Great Flood ever happened, just a few signs pointing towards it.
It is a good thing that some people are challenging conventional views though, if noone did we would still be in the dark ages, but for once it is the christians who are doing so.
I like the theory that the extinction cycle wiped them out(or most of them) and if any survived they were wiped out by something else more recently.
It just makes me wonder what kind of energy will we be using today if oil is not so readily available. Will our advancement be thrown back by centuries or would the opposite happen?
[QUOTE]but there is some evidence that there was a great flood that occured much earlier, which is probably where the bible got the story from.
Still there is no proof the Great Flood ever happened, just a few signs pointing towards it.[/QUOTE]
There is absolutely without a doubt not an iota, for that matter a possibility of, a total Earth devouring flood happening in mankind's existence. These words I type here with all that I am. Someone offer me wrong!
As much as anyone wants to imply it, do it no more unless you stake your ground in refute. Show, if ya got the sand, a congruent planetary flood in mankind's existence.
[/QUOTE]It just makes me wonder what kind of energy will we be using today if oil is not so readily available. Will our advancement be thrown back by centuries or would the opposite happen?[QUOTE]
The interesting thing about oil, is how it is formed, see oil is a result of dead organics. Simply put..... it took millions and millions of years, sorry, trillions of years for our oil reserves to accumulate.......what we are harvesting today as fuel, was the environment the dinosaurs existed in.
Still there is no proof the Great Flood ever happened, just a few signs pointing towards it.[/QUOTE]
There is absolutely without a doubt not an iota, for that matter a possibility of, a total Earth devouring flood happening in mankind's existence. These words I type here with all that I am. Someone offer me wrong!
As much as anyone wants to imply it, do it no more unless you stake your ground in refute. Show, if ya got the sand, a congruent planetary flood in mankind's existence.
[/QUOTE]It just makes me wonder what kind of energy will we be using today if oil is not so readily available. Will our advancement be thrown back by centuries or would the opposite happen?[QUOTE]
The interesting thing about oil, is how it is formed, see oil is a result of dead organics. Simply put..... it took millions and millions of years, sorry, trillions of years for our oil reserves to accumulate.......what we are harvesting today as fuel, was the environment the dinosaurs existed in.
one theory that i heard of, and makes more sense to me is that 'the great flood' actually occured in a huge basin in the earth (kind of like the one that is in africa which was made by a meteorite)..... obviously this place was the whole of the earth to them, as they hadnt travelled outside of its perimeter.. everything they needed was utilised....
anyhoo on with the story.... noah built the arc, as he was commanded to do by some superbeing, that told him a great flood would come and destroy 'the earth'. (to which he did for noah and his family), he gathered the animals blah blah.... the rains came.... the huge basin filled, which presumably took 40 days and nights... they suffered and weathered the storms, until one day the rains stopped.... noah releases the dove which flies away, and returns with the olive branch... which was found outside the huge basin and is filled and obviously destroyed with water... n
now if it rained across the whole entire of the earth... the olive branch/twig that the dove found must have come off some pretty huge olive tree, it would take quite some time for the waters to recede, and any normal life to begin and function again
ps i went to sunday school, and we did bible studies in school, so i am very aware of what the bible etc is about.... its just how others interpret them into their own gains is where a lot of problems lie
anyhoo on with the story.... noah built the arc, as he was commanded to do by some superbeing, that told him a great flood would come and destroy 'the earth'. (to which he did for noah and his family), he gathered the animals blah blah.... the rains came.... the huge basin filled, which presumably took 40 days and nights... they suffered and weathered the storms, until one day the rains stopped.... noah releases the dove which flies away, and returns with the olive branch... which was found outside the huge basin and is filled and obviously destroyed with water... n
now if it rained across the whole entire of the earth... the olive branch/twig that the dove found must have come off some pretty huge olive tree, it would take quite some time for the waters to recede, and any normal life to begin and function again
ps i went to sunday school, and we did bible studies in school, so i am very aware of what the bible etc is about.... its just how others interpret them into their own gains is where a lot of problems lie
Yes i'm sure there were floods in specific areas in the past, just as there is to this day.
With the dinosaurs though, we are talking about a major meteor impact affecting the earth for a long, long time. During earth's recovery of this impact, alot of species rose and fell.
The cataclysm to which the Noah story renditions has no correlation to the dinosaur's life and times.
With the dinosaurs though, we are talking about a major meteor impact affecting the earth for a long, long time. During earth's recovery of this impact, alot of species rose and fell.
The cataclysm to which the Noah story renditions has no correlation to the dinosaur's life and times.
I was just trying to see how it could have happened, I don't think the dinosaurs were wiped out in Noah's flood, I was just trying to figure out a way to combine those two theories together.
A lot of problems happen when you place the theories before the data. That is why one of the prerequisites of scientific methodology is that there must be a logical path from the data to the resulting theory, not vice-versa. By giving more importance to the theory (Any theory. Scientists are just as guility of this as non-scientists), you limit your objectivity, and end up tempting yourself to manipulate the data that you are trying to explain, instead of the theory that should be explaining it.
I never thought of it that way, That's the problem with dealing with how things could be as opposed to how they really are.
| QUOTE |
| That's the problem with dealing with how things could be as opposed to how they really are. |
Yes and when a person wants an answer to be a specific way, if they want this with all their heart and all that they live by......then the evidence will NEVER be looked at objectively.
Also with the Noah's flood rendition, an objective question would be......why weren't the dinosaurs rounded up two X two?
possibly this has been said before, so many threads, so many topics, too lazy to go look.
first the flood theory.
the best theory i've read and one that makes sense to me, refers to the mediterranean sea, now way back, and i can't remember how long was quoted, it is believed the mediterranean sea was not there, a large inland lake at best, and the atlantic ocean was kept out by what we know as gibraltar, or the gates of hercules. try to imagine this, sea on one side, dry land on the other side of gibraltar, and many towns and cities thriving on the floor of what is now the mediterranean. over time the "wall" erodes, and a great waterfall begins, and if there happened to be a great storm, 40 days of rain and such, the water level would increase, and possibly the "wall" that seperated mediterranean basin from atlantic ocean collapses and woosh, loads of water pours in and creates the sea. towns are wiped out, and tales move up through the ages of the great flood, noah, atlantis, what have you. if you lived in the middle of the basin, and you built an arc, you'd float for weeks out there before landing on mt ararat which was likely under an elevated sea level, IF you believe in the arc deal that is.
second, dinosaurs.
i don't think one big comet wiped them out, i think it was a combination, of possibly comet, intense volcanic activity, which both threw ash and debris into the sky, cutting down sunlight, decreasing the temperature, and the reptiles died off.
but noah not letting the dinosaurs on the arc?????
why? he didn't like them, was afraid they'd eat all the other animals? and did god tell him to let them drown? that god had made a mistake with dinosaurs, it would be better off in the long run because he was going to invent the internal combustion engine?
no, i don't think so.
dinosaurs existed millions of years before the flood, if there really was one.
first the flood theory.
the best theory i've read and one that makes sense to me, refers to the mediterranean sea, now way back, and i can't remember how long was quoted, it is believed the mediterranean sea was not there, a large inland lake at best, and the atlantic ocean was kept out by what we know as gibraltar, or the gates of hercules. try to imagine this, sea on one side, dry land on the other side of gibraltar, and many towns and cities thriving on the floor of what is now the mediterranean. over time the "wall" erodes, and a great waterfall begins, and if there happened to be a great storm, 40 days of rain and such, the water level would increase, and possibly the "wall" that seperated mediterranean basin from atlantic ocean collapses and woosh, loads of water pours in and creates the sea. towns are wiped out, and tales move up through the ages of the great flood, noah, atlantis, what have you. if you lived in the middle of the basin, and you built an arc, you'd float for weeks out there before landing on mt ararat which was likely under an elevated sea level, IF you believe in the arc deal that is.
second, dinosaurs.
i don't think one big comet wiped them out, i think it was a combination, of possibly comet, intense volcanic activity, which both threw ash and debris into the sky, cutting down sunlight, decreasing the temperature, and the reptiles died off.
but noah not letting the dinosaurs on the arc?????
why? he didn't like them, was afraid they'd eat all the other animals? and did god tell him to let them drown? that god had made a mistake with dinosaurs, it would be better off in the long run because he was going to invent the internal combustion engine?
no, i don't think so.
dinosaurs existed millions of years before the flood, if there really was one.
Actually, from my understanding, the "Great Flood", is a borrowed story, from the epic of Gilgimesh, which I read when I was studying Sumerian myothology. It was added to the Bible to help create the story behind the Old Testement.
As for the dinosaurs.....er. I would think it would be a real pain in the a** to try and collect two of every creature while tryng to avoid T-Rex's.
As for the dinosaurs.....er. I would think it would be a real pain in the a** to try and collect two of every creature while tryng to avoid T-Rex's.
Amen to that Odin, the ark wouldn't have been big enough to carry the dinosaurs.
The Noah's flood story is absolutely ridiculous, as are most of the claims made in the Bible...
If enough rain fell to cover the entire surface of the earth up to almost the top of Mt. Ararat in the time given in the bible, does anyone realize how fast that rain would have had to fall? Try, the waters would have risen at about 11 feet per hour... water falling at that velocity would have pretty much scoured the surface of the continents of all plant life, all soil, down to crystaline rock... pretty much level most mountains. All the water on the planet would have been brackish... and there would have been no sun for those 40 days... NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING could have survived... and certainly not an olive tree! Nor a whale or a dolphin or any marine life at all, with no sun even the microscopic marine life would have perished... and just using your head tells you that there is no way Noah and his family could have taken two of all creatures (and also enough food to feed them!) onto the ark... where did he keep the fish?
I read somewhere a few years ago that a geologist had discovered evidence in the middle east that suggested that there had been two lakes very close to each other. but on different elevations, the larger of the two being at the higher elevation... and that at some point in history, possibly in Noah's time, the larger, higher lake eventually spilled over into the smaller lake. That event would have caused flooding and "rain" (think Niagra Falls, but bigger!) for many, many days. It would have looked like the whole world flooded to the people who lived in the region...
If enough rain fell to cover the entire surface of the earth up to almost the top of Mt. Ararat in the time given in the bible, does anyone realize how fast that rain would have had to fall? Try, the waters would have risen at about 11 feet per hour... water falling at that velocity would have pretty much scoured the surface of the continents of all plant life, all soil, down to crystaline rock... pretty much level most mountains. All the water on the planet would have been brackish... and there would have been no sun for those 40 days... NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING could have survived... and certainly not an olive tree! Nor a whale or a dolphin or any marine life at all, with no sun even the microscopic marine life would have perished... and just using your head tells you that there is no way Noah and his family could have taken two of all creatures (and also enough food to feed them!) onto the ark... where did he keep the fish?
I read somewhere a few years ago that a geologist had discovered evidence in the middle east that suggested that there had been two lakes very close to each other. but on different elevations, the larger of the two being at the higher elevation... and that at some point in history, possibly in Noah's time, the larger, higher lake eventually spilled over into the smaller lake. That event would have caused flooding and "rain" (think Niagra Falls, but bigger!) for many, many days. It would have looked like the whole world flooded to the people who lived in the region...
| QUOTE (Falco Rex @ Jun 23 2004, 11:31 AM) |
| I'm more than a little skeptical when Christian Scientists find "Evidence" since they use whatever they find strictly to back up what they already believe rather than viewing it from an objective position.. I'd be more impressed if they merely published findings without extra theological theories added on to them.. |
I agree. Many times people make things up just to back up their beliefs. I think it was global climate change and the dinosaurs inept resistance to it.
There's a lot of evidence out there that shows there was a world-wide flood. In order to fossilize a bone, it needs to be encased in a ton of sediment immediately. Only a flood can move a mountain. Scientists have watched a single flash flood create a rock formation that any scientist would say took millions of years to form, but was really created in a single afternoon!
The dinosaurs are found in massive fossil beds, which shows that they were all killed at the same time and were encased immediately. A meteor strike wouldn't have killed all the dinosaurs around the world immediately nor would've dropped enough sediment out of the sky to fossilize a lot of them.
Also, ancient sea creatures have been found on the highest mountain ranges all over the world.
In many places all over the world, there have been cave drawings of dinosaurs roaming around, along with pictures of humans, goats, sheep and in Africa, Elephants, giraffes, etc...Why would early man have an imagination for dinosaurs if they weren't around back in the day? You tell me.
Plus the dinosaur tracks and human tracks in the same layers of limestone. People just dismiss this evidence because it was found in Texas where the bible belt is, but you really can't fake human footprints in the middle of a river or stream in a rock formation. You really can't.
Dinosaurs are mentioned in the bible. Several mentions are made.
I won't get into it because I'm not up for an arguement. You can believe whatever you want but there's evidence that the dinosaurs and man walked side-by-side and there's no other evidence to the contrary. Dinosaurs died off 65 million years ago huh? Prove it. There's no reason to believe it happened that way. You can't trust those dating techniques. Every test they do gives a different number and all they do is average the different tests. Like I said, believe what you want, but at least look at things from a different perspective. Scientists just dismiss anything that goes against their viewpoints. It's wrong that they do that.
The dinosaurs are found in massive fossil beds, which shows that they were all killed at the same time and were encased immediately. A meteor strike wouldn't have killed all the dinosaurs around the world immediately nor would've dropped enough sediment out of the sky to fossilize a lot of them.
Also, ancient sea creatures have been found on the highest mountain ranges all over the world.
In many places all over the world, there have been cave drawings of dinosaurs roaming around, along with pictures of humans, goats, sheep and in Africa, Elephants, giraffes, etc...Why would early man have an imagination for dinosaurs if they weren't around back in the day? You tell me.
Plus the dinosaur tracks and human tracks in the same layers of limestone. People just dismiss this evidence because it was found in Texas where the bible belt is, but you really can't fake human footprints in the middle of a river or stream in a rock formation. You really can't.
Dinosaurs are mentioned in the bible. Several mentions are made.
I won't get into it because I'm not up for an arguement. You can believe whatever you want but there's evidence that the dinosaurs and man walked side-by-side and there's no other evidence to the contrary. Dinosaurs died off 65 million years ago huh? Prove it. There's no reason to believe it happened that way. You can't trust those dating techniques. Every test they do gives a different number and all they do is average the different tests. Like I said, believe what you want, but at least look at things from a different perspective. Scientists just dismiss anything that goes against their viewpoints. It's wrong that they do that.
| QUOTE (Chauncy @ Jun 24 2004, 04:43 AM) |
| Yes i'm sure there were floods in specific areas in the past, just as there is to this day. With the dinosaurs though, we are talking about a major meteor impact affecting the earth for a long, long time. During earth's recovery of this impact, alot of species rose and fell. The cataclysm to which the Noah story renditions has no correlation to the dinosaur's life and times. |
Exactly, that is why you can not make the proportion that the so called "Noah" ever existed.
I always find it amusing how these christian 'scientists' try to weave their bible myths into scientific theories or historic events.
Quite careless of noah to let all the dinosaurs get wiped out after getting specific instructions from god. Maybe he should have built a bigger ark?
Quite careless of noah to let all the dinosaurs get wiped out after getting specific instructions from god. Maybe he should have built a bigger ark?
| QUOTE (spidermonkey @ Jun 27 2004, 01:52 PM) |
| I always find it amusing how these christian 'scientists' try to weave their bible myths into scientific theories or historic events. Quite careless of noah to let all the dinosaurs get wiped out after getting specific instructions from god. Maybe he should have built a bigger ark? |
lol
Thats what i have ben contradicting against, the christian myths
It's funny, isn't it?????? 
Okay, anyway, dinosaurs were around after the flood, as we can see in the book of Job, which happened after the flood. The dinosaurs didn't have very large numbers after the flood and the fact that the environment changed afterwards and people ate the dinosaurs, as also explained in the bible, their numbers are around zero.
Okay, anyway, dinosaurs were around after the flood, as we can see in the book of Job, which happened after the flood. The dinosaurs didn't have very large numbers after the flood and the fact that the environment changed afterwards and people ate the dinosaurs, as also explained in the bible, their numbers are around zero.
Though there are still dinosaur sightings as recent as at least a few years ago, which would say they never went extinct to begin with. The loch ness monster looks like a pleisiosaur, while they say a pleisiosaur couldn't get into the lake because the lake formed too recently, yet they forgot about the caves that go into the ocean, through which it could've gotten in there and survived.
| QUOTE |
| n many places all over the world, there have been cave drawings of dinosaurs roaming around, along with pictures of humans, goats, sheep and in Africa, Elephants, giraffes, etc...Why would early man have an imagination for dinosaurs if they weren't around back in the day? You tell me. Plus the dinosaur tracks and human tracks in the same layers of limestone. People just dismiss this evidence because it was found in Texas where the bible belt is, but you really can't fake human footprints in the middle of a river or stream in a rock formation. You really can't. Dinosaurs are mentioned in the bible. Several mentions are made. I won't get into it because I'm not up for an arguement. You can believe whatever you want but there's evidence that the dinosaurs and man walked side-by-side and there's no other evidence to the contrary. Dinosaurs died off 65 million years ago huh? Prove it. There's no reason to believe it happened that way. You can't trust those dating techniques. Every test they do gives a different number and all they do is average the different tests. Like I said, believe what you want, but at least look at things from a different perspective. Scientists just dismiss anything that goes against their viewpoints. It's wrong that they do that. |
Do you have a source for that information? Because unless you can back up your information you're going to have an argument on your hands. I have never heard of any of that.
It is a hard thing nowadays tofind pure proof for sayings like that, if someone wants to believe something enough, they can change anything and everything to point towards their beliefs.
im just saying...you could at least provide bible proof
you could, that's true, no one yet is able to, or daring enough to commit a major sin and change the bible, to keep the dinosaurs out of it.
i dont understand that!
See, I've provided many biblical proofs regarding dinosaurs in the bible, but they are just dismissed, so all the hard work you may do looking for information won't do a thing around here.
science is quite too far on prophesies...
its all nothing but myths regarding the relationship of dinosaur extinction and the noah's arc. think about it...
its all nothing but myths regarding the relationship of dinosaur extinction and the noah's arc. think about it...
| QUOTE (falco) |
| I'm more than a little skeptical when Christian Scientists find "Evidence" since they use whatever they find strictly to back up what they already believe rather than viewing it from an objective position. |
sadly we cant seem to escape the vicious cycle of circular reasoning.
or the never-ending process of bending information to make it say what we want......
The "timeline" in the Bible cannot seriously be considered to be accurate. Huge spans of time (tens of millions of years) were just incomprehensible to the people living then, so they created something that was more acceptable to them. The Earth was not created in six days and six nights. The dinosaurs were not killed off by Noah's Flood. The Flood was not a worldwide phenomenon.
All three events described above have no connection whatsoever with each other. The Earth was formed over thousands (possibly millions) of years around 4.6 billion years ago. The dinosaurs became extinct sixty-five million years ago. The Flood probably occurred no more than twelve thousand years ago, and was very likely to be the Mediterranean Sea breaking through the Bosphorus and flooding the Black Sea basin (which was then occupied by a large lake, and plenty of dry land).
All three events described above have no connection whatsoever with each other. The Earth was formed over thousands (possibly millions) of years around 4.6 billion years ago. The dinosaurs became extinct sixty-five million years ago. The Flood probably occurred no more than twelve thousand years ago, and was very likely to be the Mediterranean Sea breaking through the Bosphorus and flooding the Black Sea basin (which was then occupied by a large lake, and plenty of dry land).
| QUOTE (Athlon64 @ Jul 5 2004, 10:44 AM) |
| The dinosaurs became extinct sixty-five million years ago. |
64 MILLION YEARS AGO
Where are these biblical mentions of dinosaurs? I've read the old testament a few times and have yet to read that.
The bottom line is that regardless of how the dinosaurs were wiped out - be it a giant flood, a comet, an asteroid, volcanic activity, or a combination of any of the above - it happened millions upon millions of years before humans or even any mammals larger than a shrew appeared on earth. You can take carbon dating for what it is or you can ignore logical proof, but there it is.
And, by the way, even if dinosaurs had remained alive until the time of "Noah's Flood," that by itself is a guarantee that humans probably wouldn't have evolved as they are now anyway. Could weak, two legged things like humans really defend themselves against these beasts? Dinosaurs simply had to have been wiped out long before humans evolved, or we wouldn't have evolved. It was the death of them that allowed for the rise of mammals. There is a practical reason why mammals 65 million years ago were no bigger than shrews - they wouldn't have survived.
The bottom line is that regardless of how the dinosaurs were wiped out - be it a giant flood, a comet, an asteroid, volcanic activity, or a combination of any of the above - it happened millions upon millions of years before humans or even any mammals larger than a shrew appeared on earth. You can take carbon dating for what it is or you can ignore logical proof, but there it is.
And, by the way, even if dinosaurs had remained alive until the time of "Noah's Flood," that by itself is a guarantee that humans probably wouldn't have evolved as they are now anyway. Could weak, two legged things like humans really defend themselves against these beasts? Dinosaurs simply had to have been wiped out long before humans evolved, or we wouldn't have evolved. It was the death of them that allowed for the rise of mammals. There is a practical reason why mammals 65 million years ago were no bigger than shrews - they wouldn't have survived.
| QUOTE |
| There's a lot of evidence out there that shows there was a world-wide flood. In order to fossilize a bone, it needs to be encased in a ton of sediment immediately. Only a flood can move a mountain. Scientists have watched a single flash flood create a rock formation that any scientist would say took millions of years to form, but was really created in a single afternoon! |
Actually, considering the intense heat, and possible radiation that would accompany a meteor impact, it's not unlikely that the dinosaurs looked for water to try to survive. As to the fossilization.. a ton of sediment is not "immediatley" needed. A thin layer of ash could preserve the bones. Fossils form over millions of years, it's a gradual process.. Please provide a source for the flash flood making rock formations in an afternoon.. I smell something bad around that..
| QUOTE |
| The dinosaurs are found in massive fossil beds, which shows that they were all killed at the same time and were encased immediately. A meteor strike wouldn't have killed all the dinosaurs around the world immediately nor would've dropped enough sediment out of the sky to fossilize a lot of them. |
Even a flash flood would not encase thousands of dinosaurs immediately. Last i looked, Flesh was boyaunt enough to float.. the very idea of a flash flood, on any level, sweeping millions of tons of sediment and burying the dinosaurs is just stupid. Even in a "Flash Flood" the waters rise gradually.. it's not going to sweep around the world in a giant wave of water and sediment, as your implying.
| QUOTE |
| Also, ancient sea creatures have been found on the highest mountain ranges all over the world. |
Continental Collisions after the continental drift.. Meaning: All the land use to be a single land mass, called pangea.. The continent slowly broke up.. and the pieces drifted apart. The "Alps" were once coastal property.
| QUOTE |
| In many places all over the world, there have been cave drawings of dinosaurs roaming around, along with pictures of humans, goats, sheep and in Africa, Elephants, giraffes, etc...Why would early man have an imagination for dinosaurs if they weren't around back in the day? You tell me. |
Considering the Dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago, and the first hominids appeared in africa 6.5 million years ago.. i feel it's slightly impossible for them to have co-existed.
| QUOTE |
| Dinosaurs are mentioned in the bible. Several mentions are made |
I mention Dinosaurs in my stories too.. maybe in 8,000 years...people will think a T-rex really terrorized new york.
| QUOTE |
| You can believe whatever you want but there's evidence that the dinosaurs and man walked side-by-side and there's no other evidence to the contrary. Dinosaurs died off 65 million years ago huh? Prove it. There's no reason to believe it happened that way. You can't trust those dating techniques. Every test they do gives a different number and all they do is average the different tests. |
Ok.. now you've lost it.. Carbon 14 tests are accurate within a what, 5% range?
Based on your statement, we really have no idea how old the gospels are.. because you know what.. they were one of the first things carbon dated.
| QUOTE |
| Could weak, two legged things like humans really defend themselves against these beasts? |
humans can defend themselves against the natural predators of our time, whats so different about dinosaurs. our advantage is brains, not brawn...
So, how many predators have you fended off today?
Just because we aren't getting killed by them doesn't mean we have the innate ability to fend them off. Go face to face with a Grizzly and try to outsmart him.
Just because we aren't getting killed by them doesn't mean we have the innate ability to fend them off. Go face to face with a Grizzly and try to outsmart him.
| QUOTE |
| humans can defend themselves against the natural predators of our time, whats so different about dinosaurs. |
There is a huge (no pun intended) difference between, say, an 800 pound Siberian tiger and a several ton dinosaur. Dinosaurs were gigantic compared to the predators of our time. And most of the herbivores could easily have destroyed a human if it was, say, defending its young.
If what you say is true, that humans would have had to defend themselves with intelligence and not brawn, humans would've had to developed more advanced technology, correct? Where is the evidence of that? If dinosaurs survived to, say, 10,000 BCE, humans of the time would not have been able to protect themselves with the weapons of the time, now would they? A spear and a torch is not going to save you from a tyrannosaurus. The largest animals a group of ancient humans have ever really managed to kill were wooly mammoths, which are nothing in size compared to dinosaurs.
Yes, today, we probably could destroy a dinosaur if threatened. We have explosives, and we have sheer numbers - 6 billion, in fact. But thousands of years ago, the human population was in the millions, and weapons were simply not advanced enough to harm predators of such immense size.
When you find a dinosaur fossil dating to any time even remotely close to any human fossil, let me know. I will bow before you. But until then, please try to think logically.
Or at least offer something vaguely similar to evidence.
| QUOTE (Wings of Selkhet @ Jul 12 2004, 05:07 PM) |
| 1.Where are these biblical mentions of dinosaurs? I've read the old testament a few times and have yet to read that... 2. ...it happened millions upon millions of years before humans or even any mammals larger than a shrew appeared on earth... |
1. Does the Bible mention 'dinosaurs'?
a. Genesis 1:20-22-- God created animals that live in the water and those that fly
in the air, including dinosaur-like creatures such as plesiosaurs and pteranodons.
b. Genesis 1:24-25-- God created animals that live mainly on land, including
dinosaurs(such as T. rex) and humans.
c. The word 'dinosaur' (meaning 'terrible lizard') was invented in 1841 by Sir
Richard Owen, so would not be found in the pre-1841 translations of the Bible.
However, descriptions of what we call 'dinosaurs' or dinosaur-like creatures can be
found in the Old Testament, e.g. 'Behemoth'(Job 40:15-24*), 'dragons' (Isaiah 43:2
[kjv]**, Jeremiah 14:6[kjv]**), sea dragons (Isaiah 27:1, Job 41, Psalm 74:13), or
flying serpents (Isaiah 30:6).
*Notice how it reads,"...his tail sways like a cedar;..." (the newer translations put
'hippopotamus or elephant' instead of 'behemoth') Have you even seen a tail from
an elephant or hippo before? It doesn't resemble anything like a cedar! When I
read Job 40:15-24, all I can picture in my head is a sauropod-type creature.
**More than likely changed to jackles in recent translations by bible scholars who
had been taught that dinosaurs had 'died out' 65 million years ago and thus thought
impossible for humans to have seen them and substituted the words. Something
along that line.
2. Millions of years?
How in the heck do we get the idea that the earth is so old? Dating methods?
Age-dating methods:
a. All age-dating methods are based on assumptions about the past that cannot
be proven.
b. 90% of all age-dating methods give dates far younger than 'millions-of-
years' evolutionary scientists require!
Distance of the stars?
Star distance and billions of light-years:
a. TOO LONG for this post... just PM me
Others? If you can think of any, please enlighten me.
Oh yeah, and what saucy said about the footprints of dinosaurs and humans being found together is true. I read about it last night. Same with the cave paintings of
sauropod-like dinosaurs. I can get pics if you want.
If you have any questions about what I said, you can just PM me. This is
information, not my opinion. I hope this helped some...
| QUOTE (Mutant Snake @ Jun 28 2004, 04:48 PM) |
| Though there are still dinosaur sightings as recent as at least a few years ago, which would say they never went extinct to begin with. The loch ness monster looks like a pleisiosaur, while they say a pleisiosaur couldn't get into the lake because the lake formed too recently, yet they forgot about the caves that go into the ocean, through which it could've gotten in there and survived. |
Not to mention the Elke-Umembe in Africa. Supposedly there are still Brontosaurus sightings there.
| QUOTE |
| However, descriptions of what we call 'dinosaurs' or dinosaur-like creatures can be found in the Old Testament, e.g. 'Behemoth'(Job 40:15-24*), 'dragons' (Isaiah 43:2 [kjv]**, Jeremiah 14:6[kjv]**), sea dragons (Isaiah 27:1, Job 41, Psalm 74:13), or flying serpents (Isaiah 30:6). |
Oh, now I see why I never noticed these descriptions before. Because they're not descriptions of what we can conclusively say are dinosaurs. Heh. Imagine that. Almost every religion contains mentions of mythological creatures - flying horses, sea dragons, etc. So because the bible mentions flying serpents and behemoths, they're automatically dinosaurs?
| QUOTE |
| 90% of all age-dating methods give dates far younger than 'millions-of- years' evolutionary scientists require! |
Carbon dating is accurate, dear. The earth is, at the very least, 3 to 4 billion years old. I can't change your opinion. But do you have a source for this 90% bit? Please enlighten me - what sources do you have for the age of the earth?
| QUOTE |
| Oh yeah, and what saucy said about the footprints of dinosaurs and humans being found together is true. I read about it last night. Same with the cave paintings of sauropod-like dinosaurs. I can get pics if you want. If you have any questions about what I said, you can just PM me. |
Oh, I don't see why I should have to PM you. Show us all this article about the dinosaur footprints and human footprints being found together. And the cave paintings. Why should the thread be deprived of this startling information?
And I do have to say that using Saucy as a source doe not help your credibility a great deal. He has been asked to defend his arguments several times and is unable to do so with anything other than the standard creationist arguments that were debunked decades ago.
Heck, even Answers in Genesis encourages people not to use the Paluxy Tracks anymore, as they have been so throughly debunked.
Heck, even Answers in Genesis encourages people not to use the Paluxy Tracks anymore, as they have been so throughly debunked.
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