What are all of your views on the "Lost Colony" of Roanoke Island 1586?

Never heard of it. Do you have any details?

yea, i've never heard of it either...

It is a very interesting story.

The first British Colony of Roanoke, originally consisting of 100 householders, was founded in 1585, 22 years before Jamestown and 37 years before the Pilgrims landed in Massachusetts, under the ultimate authority of Sir Walter Raleigh. In 1584 Raleigh had been granted a patent by Queen Elizabeth I to colonize America.

This Colony was run by Ralph Lane after Sir Richard Grenville, who had transported the colonists to Virginia, returned to Britain for supplies. These colonists were ill-prepared and not particularly clever, because, although they depended upon the local Indians for food, they also antagonized the Indians by such tactics as kidnapping them and holding them hostage in exchange for information. Unfortunately for the colonists, who were desperately in need of supplies, Grenville's return was delayed. As a result, when Sir Francis Drake put in at Roanoke after destroying the Spanish colony of St. Augustine, the entire colony returned with Drake to England.

Interestingly, when Drake picked up these colonists, he left behind 15 of his own men, who were never heard from again. This foreshadowed one of the great mysteries of North America, Roanoke's so-called "Lost Colony" of 90 men, 17 women and 9 children, founded in 1587 and discovered to be missing in 1590, but for the word "Croatan" carved on a post. Although both the English and the Spanish searched for clues to the colony's disappearance for many years, the mystery has never been solved.

The first Roanoke colony lasted a total of ten months. This account, a fascinating description of American before European settlement, is taken from Lane's report on the adventure to Sir Walter Raleigh.

Link to rest of story here

Personally I think that many of the colonists became members of the local tribes.

Ah! Thanks Fluffy that does sound familiar. The details were hazy though.

Edit: cool link Fluffy

Fluffy, so articulate and informative...thanks!!!!
Yes, I have often wondered what happened to them!!!

Wasn't there a paper on a tree with a knife thru it that said CROTAN or sumthing?

I think there is a similar topic in the Vanished thread of Mysteries of Space and Time


yup..looks like the truth is more boring than fiction in this case. The setters were left. had a harsh winter and many died. the ones that were left assilmilated into the Native American tribes.

Check out the thread for details

just watch storm of the century or read the book by steven king!

All that is the basis of the story.It's widely believed that the settlers became part of one or more small tribes that were later wiped out by sickness or conflict.For me the story is more about Virginia Dare the first english child (supposedly) born in N.amer..The grandaughter of the to be Governor of what would be Virginia.It was John White who had to abandon them to bring supplies.Never to see his family again....And then there are the stories of the sighting of Virginia....and later the STONES! Stones from that area with odd writing, relating to the Lost Colony.Many must be fake, but what about some of them???-usdi Agaluga

All that is the basis of the story.It's widely believed that the settlers became part of one or more small tribes that were later wiped out by sickness or conflict.For me the story is more about Virginia Dare the first english child (supposedly) born in N.amer..The grandaughter of the to be Governor of what would be Virginia.It was John White who had to abandon them to bring supplies.Never to see his family again....And then there are the stories of the sighting of Virginia....and later the STONES! Stones from that area with odd writing, relating to the Lost Colony.Many must be fake, but what about some of them???-usdi Agaluga

This is one of the more famous mysteries. I personally believe that the remaining colony was either moved to another location(without being able to give notice) or like stated above, was joined into indian tribes.

Or the natives could have killed them and disposed of their bodies

It's one of life's greatest mysteries, kinda like how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop. I'd like to know the answer to both to be honest.

actually the name that was carved in the tree was "CROATOAN"

actually the name that was carved in the tree was "CROATOAN"

actually the name that was carved in the tree was "CROATOAN"

sorry I don't know why that went on there 3 times

Croatoan, is an island supposedly where the Roanoke colonists fled too. Also here is a link to some theorys on what may of happened to the colonists and what came about of the expeditions to find them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatoan_Island

They were almost certainly killed by the local Indians. The colonists -- and the colony on the same site before them -- had done a good job of making sure everyone in the area hated them. One of the last actions we knew they took was to kill a party of 16 or so Hatterask Indians (cousins to their friend Manteo) that were attempting to bring them food. When settlers finally made it to Jamestown 20 years later, the local Indians /told/ them they had killed the Roanoke colony.

--Jaylemurph

How is it you know everything about everything? Please enlighten me as to how someone who sits on a net forum all day is so knowledgeble on every subject.

My idea of a typical day of Jaylemurph......

9am-4pm looks over old scrolls and testiments (picture Gandolf from LOTR FOTR)

4pm-god knows when.... Posts on UM about everything and anything!!!!!

Well, in this case, the answer is easy: I'm /from/ Roanoke Island, so it's probably no coincidence I grew up to get a PhD in History, and specialise in the Elizabethan period. And while I would never claim to know everything about everything (or even everything about any one thing), the faculty at the various institutions I attended and at the institution I work in now virtually insist I be very knowledgeable about many aspects of history.

But, yes, a great deal of my time -- especially this time of year, when I don't teach -- is spent reading or writing. Not so much scrolls, though.

--Jaylemurph

oo... both ears and the tail!

This makes the most sense and in my opinion is exactly what happened. Why else would they carv this into a tree and post. But they should have just left a note

Hmm earlier this year my history teacher talked about it and all the possible stuff that could have happened.
Roanoke seems like an insteresting place and the mystery around is even more insteresting.

This is actually something I know something about! At least, I think I do ... when it comes to history, what do we really know? Okay, Okay ... a read a couple of books on it. Here's my take:

The Background.
Spain had bases in the Caribbean and was sending home shiploads of gold. At the time, Raleigh's pirate fleets were making runs to the Caribbean to attack the Spanish treasure ships, but he wanted a quicker turnaround so his ships could stay longer in the area to harass the Spanish. They were spending too much time running back for supplies, instead of doing what they really wanted, which was to annoy the Spanish. So Raleigh came up with the idea for a pirate port in the north. However, he needed financial backing from the government and his advisors warned him that parliament would never go for a pirate port. Instead, under their advice, he pitched the idea of a COLONY for families to establish the crown in North America.

They dropped off the first colony, and when they came back a year later to resupply them, the colonists came running out of the woods, dashed in boats to the ships, and refused even at gunpoint to go back. They basically said: "shoot us, we're not going back."

A later attempt had a man named White as the governor. As they started to run out of food, they sent white back to England for supplies. While he was gone, the colonists went through his stuff, taking whatever they wanted and it took forever to get it all back. This is important later.

The colonists apparently constructed two forts: one inland, invisible from the sea, where the colonists lived and farmed, and another closer to the short which was used as a lookout for ships. When the resupply vessesl failed to come, the colonists spent months trying to beg White to return to England for supplies, but because of what happened before, he refused. Finally, the colonists all signed an agreement promising they wouldn't touch his stuff while he was gone. So White went back to England, got permission for supplies, but the war with Spain was taking up all the British ships, and the crown didn't want to spare a ship just to rescue a colony. Finally, White decided to simply return empty handed, and got passage on one of Raleigh's pirate ships. Though he begged the captain to take him to Roanoke, and captain and crew were intent on their mission of harassing Spanish ships, so it was some time before they finally relented and agreed to head north to Virginia (meaning the Virginia colony in what is now North Carolina). By this time, it had been about two years since White had left.

The Colony
When they got to the colony they found both forts abandoned and in disarray. The doors of the main fort were wide open and almost everything was gone: everything except Whites belonging which had been carefully buried under a mound of earth that later washed partly away, exposing them to rain and weather that ruined everything. White was apparently beside himself with emotion that they had left his things, and yet were gone. Interestingly, the diaries indicate that the landing party sensed the presence of others following them, and several times found fresh footprints across their path but saw no one. Despite Whites pleas to stay and look, or ask local Native Americans, the crew insisted they return to the ship, and White left with them so as not to be left behind. Croatoan was carved into a tree. Croatoan was the name of a local Native American tribe, a river and a Peninsula nearby.

Aftermath
When John Smith became governor of the Jamestown colony, he apparently made inquiries to Powhatan, whose actual name (according to Wikipedia anyway) was Wahunsenacawh. There had been reports from scouts that in the south they had seen fair-haired people, and two-storied houses in some Native American villages. Powhatan agreed to send people to ask about the Roanoke tribe. Powhatan later returned and said that the Roanoke colony had been wiped out during a trade dispute with local Native Americans, but that some of the children might have survived.

My theory:
My theory, considering that the colonists were NOT pirates, but rather monied people from England who mostly paid their own way, and considering the culture of England at the time, it is my belief that the colonists, faced with starvation joined a local Native American tribe as members. However, once rescue came, the survivors, knowing they would never have been accepted in polite society again, having 'gone native' and become 'heathens' in the eyes of their sophisticated society, decided not to return. However, they left open the possibility for their CHILDREN to return if they ever changed their minds.

Just my view, and it's been a long time since I read those books, so no telling how many 'facts' are wrong, but either way: interesting story in American history.

I'd say that's a good breakdown of the story, except for one or two small things. Most importantly, the colonists for the most part weren't "moneyed", they were mostly poor and mostly from Devon and thereabouts -- the people from the first colony had all nearly starved and were nearly all from London. They did a good enough job of decrying Virginia that Raleigh's men had to go outside the city to recruit, back to Raleigh's home areas. These new people were mostly poorer classes of tradesmen. Had they been well off, they'd have no reason to up stakes and come to the New World.

Oh, and there was only one settlement; it had been built in 1585 by the original colony. The 1587 colony was originally making for the Chesapeake Bay area, but the navigator got lost and the crews were eager to get to the Caribbean, so they dumped the settlers in the old colony. (There well may have been sort of a look-out point closer to the shore and to the South, but it wouldn't have been a very sophisticated affair, and neither would have had buildings with a second story.)

--Jaylemurph

edit: grammar

ive always believed they joined the local tribes and taught them a few things like readign and writing there is proof of this
wen some of the tribes were found and 'discovered' they tried to communicate and to there surprise they slightly understood there english writing and stranger yet almost al of the tribesmen had blue eyes which were extremely rare for natives on that part of the world so i believe that the blue eyed settlers joined and mated with the tribes

Seems plausible but I read that they checked all of the surrounding indian tribes and didnt find any of there people.
Also as for white people mating with them could of been difrent settlers or merchants that did that.

most of the tribes ppl were still dark skinned [ although some lighter than others] the main thing they inherited from the colonies was there blue eyes

The shoals off Cape Hatteras -- Diamond Shoals is what they're called now -- are particularly treacherous, and the Cape is also the meeting point of the cold Labrador Current and the warm Gulf Stream (which served as the chief highway, so to speak, back to Continental Europe from the New World), so intense storms can arise startlingly quickly. There were many, many shipwrecks off the NC coast with many, many survivors making ashore not far from Roanoke Island -- those blue eyes have plenty of other sources than the lost Colonists.

In fact, several stories survive in the area of Indian princesses falling in love with castaway Spaniards/Irish/English/etc. sailors.

--Jaylemurph

Ah, I see. Yes, it has been a long time. My understanding is that the second fort closer to the shore was essentially a look-out point. If I understand correctly, it only had a wedge-shaped wall facing the coast, no buildings, and lean-tos for bad weather: basically a small roof they look-outs could crawl under.

Still there's a lot I don't know, and of what I remember, I'm not sure how accurately I remember it.

Either way: it's a interesting.

Believe me, I'm not trying to nitpick about this stuff, I just like to talk about it. And having grown up with this stuff literally in my backyard, I can go on...

But both the original site and any look-out point(s) are long since lost... the best current thinking is that it was at a point since eroded into Roanoke Sound. Like the rest of the Outer Banks, Roanoke Island is essentially a big sand bar, that changes location over time. (The fact that the island was virtually deforested during the Civil War means lots of the north end of the island are gone.) That's also why you can no longer find Trinity Harbour on a map, and why period maps don't show the Oregon Inlet that exists now.

At a point in the national park, they have a reconstruction of what they think might have been somewhere near the site -- the NPS will run circles around to convince you it's real, but I know guys who built it with the CCC or the WPA. They reckoned it was star-shaped, which was a common configuration in the warcraft books at the time, but I'm not sure many of the '87 colony would be privy to such things. (The '85 colony certainly would have been, and I suspect they would have had more than one location on the island like you describe).

Besides having a re-creation of the Elizabeth, one of the small ships that carried over some of the '85 colonists, Roanoke Island Festival Park had a decent-ish recreation of such a camp. When I worked there, it was a lot of fun; they used people who actually knew what they were talking about when it came to history to pretend to be period soldiers,and people walked away learning about what a miserable ****hole the New World was to most early colonists, and disabused of ideas like "fleeing religious persecution" and "political liberty".

Of course, more than one person walked away thinking dwarf elephants hunted by pike-wielding soldiers roamed Virginia colony, too, so things have changed a lot.

--Jaylemurph

I would love to know more about this bolded part, where can I find that information?

I had no idea that this was still considered a mystery.
I thought it had been solved, with the explanation that the settlers had integrated with the local tribe(s).

I read a little about this before. I just pretty well came to the conclusion that the Indians had killed the settlers. Especially considering the amount of hostility between the tribes and the settlers at the time.

why does everyone seem to think the natives killed the settlers sure there were hostilities between them but the settlers could have easily swayed them with the knowlege of literature and other sciences

I think natives who were accustomed to living off the land had little care for science and the like. Also one of the Tribal Chiefs admitted to killing the settlers some years later and presented some of the colonists personal belongings.

Not really. Most of the settlers in both colonies were poor and hence (in Elizabethan England, naturally) not very well educated. Furthermore, in the first colony, they hadn't been afraid to steal, blackmail, and kill whomever they wanted. They wouldn't dispose anyone towards peace.




Here's the link to Wikipedia's article. It should have the appropriate footnotes. If it doesn't, you can try Helen Rountree's books on Powhatan, although I can't give a specific reference. I do know there is no first-hand, direct reference of Powhatan saying this, but there are several 17th Century second-hand accounts.

The other book I can suggest is Karen Ordahl Kupperman's Indians and English: Facing Off in Early America (Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 2000), from which comes the comment about Manteo and his family.

--Jaylemurph

I believe after an atrocity commited by the leaders of the remaining colonists, against some good willed indians, a war party was formed. There were many native girls pregnant with these remaining colonists children as well. I think the indians, Hatterask, put the men to death, and assimilated and remaining women that hadn't already been raped, brutalized and murdered by their own countrymen. Storm surge most likely eliminated the evidence of the colonists demise. You have to be indian to know these things. Which reminds me...if fuel costs force us back into horse and buggy technology, I'm going to revitalize the scalping movement. ~Jackal

I wish I could think of something to say to that.-usdi Agaluga ( eastern/western Cherokee Mixed Blood)

Thanks Jaylemurph!
I guess I didn't know as much about this story as I thought I did. I haven't really looked into it since the 80's, so I did miss a few discoveries.
I found this article to be interesting, maybe there were more than just the white settlers missing?
http://www.lost-colony.com/people.html
This site also talks about doing some DNA testing that would probably produce some interesting results. (or no results at all)





Jackal, Jackal, Jackal, You do amuse me so!!! Couldn't you just revitalize counting coup? Not as messy.
You do have a very good point about storm surge. I've often wondered how any colony on the east coast or the gulf survived with no warning to hurricanes.

Creek/Kiowa (Muscogee Nation) Hints Je'...you Cherokees have nothing to fear from me. lol. Che'-ja-Fik'-nide (Good health). Watch your women tho...I just got divorced! WhoooHooo!

Jen, the story all in all is very mysterious when you first read about it and the word CROATOAN carved into a post and CRO into a tree. The Croatans from nearby Hatteras Island claimed fame for the attack. And sent the remaining survivors fleeing for their lives up the coast (NORTH). There have been numerous climatological studies of the region showing strong atlantic stroms and surge, and there is presently a DNA project in the works with nearby tribal members. So, it really isn't much of a mystery at all when all the factors are considered.

btw, I am planning a voyage to the southern indian ocean to locate the real skull island, for our first expedition. There will be banks of fog, mysterious lights, sorrowful wails from seemingly nowhere, and pirates. Yep! Pirates! They are fairly prevelant on the seas in that region. So pack a bikini and your sig sauer .45 We're gonna be busy! Don't forget the sunblock and salt water crocodile repellent.

Not in the Roanoke colonies, no. They were all English. The Melungeons are a whole other ball of wax (Although I have a wonderful friend who's Melungeon) that -- historically speaking -- don't show up until the very early 19th Century. Like any good story, there's people happy to re-locate them further and further back through history.

--Jaylemurph

The article implied that the hundreds of slaves set off by Drake in the same area were part Moor and the like. Some of the very races the Melungeon believe to be thier source....And as for DNA studies of Natives, the amount of markers to make any valid analysis is quite small.This far down the line you can only make broad statements about gene expression showing up in another race.We know very little about the genetic make up of the "white" colonists of that period.Not really.And if you think First Nation Blood is pure its not.The majority of the nations had other race bloodline come into theirs thru conquest, marriage, etc.,,and its still going on.Any european genetics showing up in Natives genetics would impossible to trace back unless it were highly specific, or unique.-usdi Agaluga

That's an excellent point, and not something I would usually think about.

--Jaylemurph

That is very interesting. They seem to have found away as this investigative special is post production. I certainly see your point however.

I was actually referring to the African, Indian and South American slaves, as being left on the island as a "gift" to the settlers on Roanoke, and possibly being among the missing. You don't think that's true?

Are you saying that mixed race people didn't show up in the U.S. until the early 19th century? Why do you think that? (Not a challenge of your intelligence of course, merely a question out of my own curiosity as to your sources)

Thank you smokejaguar!



Jackal, you're on! The bikini is standing at the ready and how did you know about the .45? I like it, but I prefer another. You'll see. I'm holding you to the promise of pirates! See what you do? Now I've got to go find references to skull island. D**m my curiosity!!!!!!

If that was directed to me I do believe in "race mixing" going back thousands of years.What main stream science refuses to believe is the amount of infusion of other races, trade, etc going back way before the Bronze Age.Where do you think all the "tonnes" copper ore went from up north. Almost none of it was ever used here.It fueled the new age in Europe and beyond..The proof of this is the presence of cocaine and tobacco in the tissue of egyptian mummies from 2000 bc.You only find that in the Americas.So...the truth is were all mongruls (sp).Made of star dust filtered thru many different "races".-usdi Agaluga