Now that the Trent and Trinidade photo sequences have been proved to be fake are there any photos you consider actually represent an inexplicable aerial phenomenon? I have yet to see such a photograph and with the advances in technology I would now require physical evidence before I "believe". Thoughts?

well i've never seen a photo, and thought, that definantly is an alien space craft from another world, most look to fake to be taken seriously, but i have seen a few good photos, and the rise in video evidence is a welcome additional to wether or not these things people are seeing in the skies are really alien visitors... , i to hope they find some physical evidence, or maybe they already have some..., i'll try and find some good photos, video evidence whatever....

I as well would like to see some real hard proof. then maybe I would sway from my sceptic beleifs and might actually beleive there is alien life out there...

Ever seen Miracle on 32nd street? (its a classical christmas movie about prooving
that Santa Claus is real.) "Santa Claus" used to be a code word for NASA to
confirm an alien presence or other paranormal phenomena. Now, if this UFO
debate were to be taken to a court hearing, and we could make a case out of
it, then it could be prooven true. Pictures and witnesses are ALWAYS valid evidence! If there was a murderer on trial, then the outcome would pend mostly
on the witnesses, and security cameras etc... We have all that. But people just
don't realize that there is a UFO COVER-UP going on right now!.. and thats
why evidence is either IGNORED or ridiculed. I admit. There are folks who
make fake UFO pics for fun and attention. But its not right.

so you believe that the goverment is covering up stuff? now my question is why? for the rights to be the first to actually know and examine alien stuff? or what?

"To most UFO watchers, the Roswell incident was the beginning of the UFO phenomenon, but to the government it was the inauguration of a new approach to public relations, “Cover-up-on-the-fly”. The extreme contradictions in the rapid-fire changes of the official investigation should have sent up red flags, but the post-war trust of the military, in the public view, was solid. The confused nature of the government response bears witness to the fact that, at that time, the military had no standing policy on dealing with UFOs. It is obvious that the government dropped the ball and never seemed to fully recover as it adopted a "hide it quickly, deny it totally, and cover it up completely" policy. What followed became an almost comical chain of lame explanations, false investigations, and an amateur dance of deception that continues to this day. The government, in collusion with almost every other social institution, seemed to agree that the public had neither the right nor the need to know any information about the UFO phenomenon.
In order to justify the withholding of such important information, NASA commissioned the most influential think tank in the country, the Brookings Institute, to study the impact of revealing the existence of extraterrestrial life on the public. Not surprisingly, the Brookings Institute concluded that such contact could cause cultural upheaval, threaten social and scientific institutions, and cause stress to the public worldwide. These few excerpts from the 1961 report titled "Proposed Studies on the Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs" show some of the cautionary suppositions and generalizations that brought it to that conclusion. How correct is the judgment of the powers that hide this reality concerning the grave harm revealing the existence of UFOs would cause to the social fabric? That, of course, depends on whether the revelation gave rise to fear or hope. If it were announced that the visitors had conquest or destruction as part of their agenda, a defense posture would be the obvious result and, no doubt, a futile one. There would be little need to worry about the social fabric. In consideration of the fact that they show little aggression, except for their total disregard of security zones and that they always flee when pursued, at least the evidence weighs heavily on the side of their being peaceful rather than combative. However, a positive and friendly agenda would be perhaps the greatest threat to the status quo in almost every area of society.
A power greater than anything ever witnessed by modern man would suddenly become the prime focus of almost every human being on the planet. After decades of blatant cover-up, the world's governments and military powers would be immediately exposed for their deceit. Science would have no theories to cover the enigma of their inability to detect such an obvious presence and the very purpose of all scientific research would be brought into question. Education would be in turmoil as, certainly, most accepted knowledge would be subject to very critical analysis. Established religion would suddenly find its exclusive rights to “higher power” in serious competition and, no doubt, the collection plate would suffer dearly. Big business would, of course, be affected by everything, in every way and, most likely, with an unprofitable result. As a whole, the world as we know it would change drastically with the true effect being determined by the actual direct influence of the alien presence on mankind.
I present a question to those who believe there are unknown visitors in our skies. Are we not naive to think that governments, large corporations, and other major institutions would not be justified in considering the possible negative impact an alien revelation would have on their individual concerns? There is no doubt that they are justified, at least in their own minds, and are doing exactly that. However, is the Government not the servant of the public? Are not the people the consumers that make big business big and do not the people provide the support that keeps the other major institutions thriving? If this is the reality, what gives them the right to control what the people should and should not know? And, most importantly, why are they deciding to hide history’s greatest truth? Is the threat really that great and how extensive is the cover-up resulting from that decision? The archeological field is in possession of direct evidence of advanced technology and races in the remnants of ancient cultures. They don’t declare it as relevant, just unknown. The fact that these objects could not possibly have been produced by the culture to which they are attributed goes unmentioned. This reality is mirrored in many of the world’s ancient writings, but anthropology is dismissive on the written evidence, veiling it in myth and religious symbolism. Our true history is incomplete without a clear understanding that our ancestors were in direct contact with a race of advanced beings. The remnants of the ancient cultures are mislabeled and improperly associated to satisfy certain long established and antiquated theories of our past. The “publish or perish” mentality that drives the funding needs in these fields requires strict adherence to the status quo. Disagree with the orthodox theories and you won't get published. Don't get published and the organization funding you will no longer find you a profitable venture or a magnet for much desired media attention. If you lose your appeal as a solid money and media draw with one major institution, you lose your credibility with them all. The cover-up is a key to success in these fields.
There are two other great enigmas in the scientific arena concerning the UFO phenomena, S.E.T.I., the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence, and the NASA space program. If we are correct in stating that UFOs exist and are frequently present in our skies, it would be safe to assume that the scientific community knows about this as well. This would mean that the S.E.T.I. Project is nothing more than a diversion meant to keep society ever mindful of the fallacy that they are looking for extra terrestrial life out there while they know it has been here all along. The attempted cover-up of sightings by NASA astronauts is well documented. This, combined with the public relations flim flam concerning the possibility of alien life forms on other planets, with no mention of evidence of the presence of alien life forms in our own skies, shows a policy focused on keeping the public totally uninformed. The cover-up is a matter of public policy in science.
Education is conspicuously silent on the subject of UFOs, having found it convenient to pigeonhole it as myth. But, just as with programming computers, the educational textbooks are controlled by the GIGO principal, (Garbage In, Garbage Out). Instructors cannot impart wisdom that is not in their instructional materials. They are simply teaching the same antiquated and unproven theories that archaeologists, anthropologist, and geologists pump out in a repetitive stream of mind mush. And, of course, the students who go on to be instructors absorb the same antiquated material, repeat it as programmed to do, and this cycle of disinformation repeats itself in perpetuity. Even the new field of astrobiology, created by NASA, is focused on theories dealing with the hypothetical existence of life on other planets and in other galaxies, and not the study of alien life actually evidenced on international radar screens. Ufology is not a subject in our higher institutions while theoretical science is widely taught. Certainly there is more evidence supporting the presence of UFOs than there is for the hypothetical existence of bucky balls, fat wormholes, and invisible dark matter. The cover-up is part of the curriculum.
Organized Bible based religions are, for the most part, also silent on the UFO phenomenon, either through fear of facing the reality, refusal to recognize it or church mandated social isolation. This is an enigma in itself considering the fame of Ezekiel's wheels, the chariots of the Gods, (the verse, not the book, well maybe the book too), and other evidence of flying vehicles in biblical text. When mainstream religion does deal with the anomaly, there are two doctrinal views concerning the presence of UFOs, the holograph theory and the evil alien conspiracy. One approach states that the UFOs are holographic illusions projected by Satan to lure the congregation away from the church and into alien worship, eventually enslaving mankind. The other, more radical view surmises that the beings piloting the UFOs are actually fallen angels with Satan in the mother ship. They are lurking on the dark side of the moon or some other evil hideaway, occasionally visiting our atmosphere to abduct and implant a few of their human followers, slaughter some cows, scrawl satanic graffiti in our barley fields or run circles around our jets. Either way, UFOs are evil and UFO believers are either dupes or disciples of Satan. Contrary to the doomsday bellowing of the satanic UFO prophets, this widespread cover-up itself could easily be classified as a Great Deception, while evil soul-stealing aliens piloting UFOs are not mentioned in scripture. Certainly the cover-up is safe here, in total confusion and ignorant bliss. Big business rakes in plenty of profit from the UFO phenomenon without any need for the real thing. It is a multibillion-dollar business world wide and dare we even consider the impact on that trade if it became politically incorrect to exploit and demean a superior alien race. Big business would also find it much more difficult to manipulate and brand an advanced race of beings than it is to manipulate the human race. Unless big business can get the visitors under contract, sporting corporate logos on their craft, doing guest appearances on talk shows or convince them to switch to the internal combustion engine, none of which is likely, they could only be a burden. The cover-up is just smart business.
Add to this whole mix the social stigma associated with belief in UFOs and the mainstream media exploitation of the UFO phenomenon portraying it as violent and mysterious solely for profit. Now you have very cleverly made the reality not only socially unacceptable, but also well disguised as fiction. The dumbing down of our society through a constant blitz of heavily advertised entertainment insures very few will be distracted from the stranglehold of the boob tube of your choice long enough to consider weightier matters. A never ending flow of glitzy presentation keeps the populace riveted in place while being conditioned to be obsessive shoppers with good branding. Even during crisis we are told that the way to lift us up from our depression is to shop till we drop. Until the relevant information concerning UFOs inhabits prime time television, the majority of humanity in the developed world will remain ignorant. The cover-up is safe from too many prying eyes.
Perhaps the last frontiers of free thought in the “accessibility” and “regulation of speech” categories are the Internet and privately controlled information outlets. Only on the Internet and through specialty media sources can the free flow of subjective and objective views concerning the UFO phenomenon be easily accessed by the printed and spoken word. Of course, this final bastion of free speech is also being threatened by the need for censorship in the name of national security concerns and for the preservation of patriotism prompted by the recent terrorist attacks. For the most part however, and for the time being, the cover-up has only a very weak foothold in the alternative media.
There are, of course, rumors that the government has contact with the aliens, in negotiations, or in some other such communication. We can only hope that these rumors are false because certainly politicians and military leaders would be doing the negotiating. If such a scenario were true and assuming that advanced technologies and advanced intelligence go hand-in-hand, the negotiations probably wouldn't last very long. Any self-respecting alien would probably give up in frustration in minutes. If the aliens capitulated to the dishonesty and insincerity of power-hungry and lobby-controlled politicians and the aggressive, overly protective and government-controlled attitudes of gun toting career military officers, they wouldn't be very intelligent. We know that the government would not consider our best interests in any negotiations and would be more likely to first protect their own power. If these aliens are peaceful and intelligent, we, at least, have the hope they have the welfare of all mankind at heart and would be able to see that negotiating with our leaders will not benefit the people as a whole.
All things considered, it appears as though the cover-up is almost complete and in the eyes of those supporting the cover-up, their actions are justified. It can be clearly seen that the lifting of this cover-up would have a major impact on many areas of society and the ripple effect would carry through all of the world’s cultures. As it stands now, it is basically a minor irritant because UFOs seem simply to fly in, do their business, and go away. Until social values and public priorities that compromise the status quo are changed, the UFO cover-up will continue and this quiet power, a power that seems to be waiting and watching, will remain officially “Unidentified’.
Whatever their reasons for being here and regardless of what the government does or does not know, there is no justification for deceiving the public solely to preserve wealth and power. Unfortunately, the status quo is ingeniously set up mainly to preserve an entrenched system of wealth and power controlled by the elite. Until that system is changed, the deception will continue. The power elite are the direct source of, and in control of, this deception and they will resist anything that threatens their power base. Not only could an alien revelation cause a major social change, but also a major social upheaval must first take place which reclaims this power to control public information from the rich and returns it to the people where it rightfully belongs, before it will ever become public knowledge. Unless of course they land on the White House lawn, which is more likely to happen before the rich and powerful ever lose control of the truth." - Patrick Cooke

tha explains...a lot. thanks!

You're welcome. I got that information from www.bibleufo.com
You might find the rest of the site a little "far out", but I believe most
of it! You probably don't because it is unclear to the untrained eye
that there is a Bible UFO connection.

i see that in your sig! lol. say i...skipped over some of the article due to length. in laymens terms what are some of the bible conections?

Yes. I knew that. You answered to quick, so I assumed
you did't even read it. But if you have time, then read it.
It makes sence to me.

lol i am a pretty fast reader though

I'm sorry norman, i dont got the time to read all that right now as its 5am and i need some sleep soon lol. So ill get back to ya on that later, i do however know alot about S.E.T.I (Search for Extra terretrial intelligence) Where Their mission is to explore, understand and explain the origin, nature of life in the universe.


However i truely think there is many Ufo sightings which have been witnessed by hundreds or thousands of people in one sitting, where there has been solid evidence, with pictures and movies from different angles etc.

Oct. 4, 1968, is still a red letter date for those who think long, hard, and obsessively about unidentified flying objects. "The Shag Harbour incident may well become the enduring testament to the UFO phenomenon

Remember this is also taken from different sites that i read up on to get the info.

On the coast of Halifax, Nova Scotia in 1968, a group of men were driving down a road when they saw what looked to be a plane in trouble. It was flashing lights along the tree line and then plunged into the bay. They didn't know what to do so they went to the police and told them that a plane may have gone down.

Fearing that people may have been injured, they sent a search team out over the waters the next day. There was no sign of a plane or survivors but there was a long trail of thick yellow foam extending a hundred yards across the surface of the water.



Then there was the Phoenix Lights, where hundreds of people witnessed a large pattern of lights in a triangle form, which could be spotted for miles. There is alot of pictures, and movies taken of this sighting, even from hundreds of miles away from some of the other ones.

PHOENIX (CNN) -- When it appeared in the Arizona sky on the night of March 13, it was witnessed by hundreds of people. Neither researchers nor witnesses have yet figured out what Arizonans saw in the event now dubbed "the Phoenix Lights." But that hasn't stopped them from trying to puzzle it out.

http://ufocasebook.com/phoenixlights.html
(Shows pictures, info, and the movie clip containing alot of different peoples veiws on this object.






Take note of how similar the layout of lights is in each picture all taken by completly differnt people.


These are two of the many sightings which have been disclosed as human nature pfftt right....


http://www.greatdreams.com/ufos.htm
A great link that has around 20,000 ufo links , gets updated very often, lots of stuff to look at or read

Given the traumatic, world-shaping events that the human race has weathered - religious wars, world wars, environmental disasters(ozone hole, global warming), the theory of evolution, runaway developments in science and technology since the 19th century - I find it incredible that one would think revealing the existence of extraterrestrial life would somehow cause widespread social chaos.

And even if the government did want to cover it up there is no way they could. Governmental agencies inevitably leak information. The government simply can't keep anything secret. They couldn't keep the Pentagon Papers secret, they couldn't keep our atomic secrets under wraps in the 50's, they couldn't keep Iran Contra secret, etc. etc. In popular fiction government goons are superefficient assassins, cooly and methodically hunting down those who know the truth. In real life they are more often barely competent, carreer-minded, self-serving beauraucrats. If there was an actual UFO buried in a government hanger somewhere there would be a half dozen New York Times bestsellers documenting it, complete with glossy photos and appendices of sources.

About that phoenix lights, I'm not accepting that fire thingy explanation they gave us. Why? If i'm not mistaken the lights flew slowly over the city and people saw it covered the stars in the skies. How do they explain that?

Has anyone heard the AIR FORCE REPLY on the Roswell incident?
It is the lamest reply ever. No disrespect to 'Big Bro', but seriously,
they say that ballon No.9 crashed in New Mexico, and thats what happened. Then they say that it was another ballon. Then researchers
find out that No.9 has't been deployed into the air! Those suckers just
never stop lying! The UFO cover-up is true!
Here are some useful links:

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/dvpage.html
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/newse/rosw/proof.html

So the same government that is too incompetent to know which weather balloon was in the air at the time is somehow able to orchestrate a massive, leak-proof cover up for over 50 years?

damn all of those rich goverment dudes!

At the time of Roswell, the USAF was working on high altitude balloons which would be able to detect the strength of russian nukes being tested half way across the world. That could be why they simply said it was a weather balloon, and then changed their story.

I really cant find much good evidence that an alien craft crashed at roswell... Im sorry, but I really cant. I'd like to believe one did, but you know, I follow evidence and logic, not supposition and assumptions.

Anyway, photographic evidence is admissable in a court of law, but theres a big difference between security cameras witnessing a murder and an average citizen recording a UFO group. UFOs are much, much easier to fake than a murder.

No! Again, I'm saying: The government is covering up the UFO
crashes! Its a major project! Perhaps most members of the government
are incompetent to know about this, but the part of the government
which is TOP SECRET is not hiding something normal.
They DO know. But they either had to kill the Roswell witnesses and
threaten them, or they simply made up a story about a ballon!
Ballon No.9 never did go and spy on the Russians. Altough the Russians
did test their nuke the following year, still the ballons had nothing to
do with the Roswell incident! Military officials deny their presence at
the crash site, when from all other sources it is confirmed that they have't
been anywhere else. Where they there? YES! Do they know? YES!
Can they tell us? NO! Because of this major cover-up!
And Stellar, there is evidence of the Roswell incident. You
just can't get ahold of it. Because like us (regular joes) we can't
brake the government's power. We need in-depth knowledge about this
to do so.

I believe there's life "out there", but I think it would be great to have some real documented proof to show the world.

If we cant get ahold of it, how do you know there is any?

Btw, if there is and we cant get ahold of it, that means theres no evidence for one reason or another.

All very interesting however the cover up theory just doesn't hold water. Firstly, what is there to cover up? There is no hard proof. Wouldn't you think that just one alien artifact would have been found and delivered to the press or sold by now? Come on. Secondly, this conspiracy would have to involve all the Governments of the world - in the UN they can't even agree on what color the water fountain cups should be let alone agree to cover up an alien presence. I think the implication is that it's just a US Government cover up - so what about the former USSR? It defies belief.
The "Phoenix lights" were proved to be flares. If you transpose the lights against the background mountain range, they disappear as they should if they were flares dropped behind the mountains.
If we do get visited it will be much more momentous than some dodgy photos and videos can show. It will be truly mind blowing and very obvious to every person on the planet. Ciao.

pheonix was proved to be flares? i thought that was unproven

Obviously for some people nothing is "proof" if they have an agenda. The evidence for flares was pretty darn convincing. I'm sure if you do some googling you'll get the evidence you need.

Yeah, that reminds me... flares! I remember that explenation and it did make sense... and yes flares do look like lights like that.

Is that the same circular reasoning i see you accuse others of?


The same could be said for 'proof' that it was a UFO. Also stars were not visable where the apparent craft would be. Andrews AFB has not acknowledged any activity using flares on the night in question. Not to mention the countless V-shaped object / UFO sightings that came from many credible citicens that day.

It might not have been flares, it might not have been aliens, but something was definetly there, a very large and silent object with lights.

I never once said "circular reasoning" in my life. Well, until now!

But my point still stands... if we dont have access to the evidence, we dont know if what he sais is evidence, therefor we dont know if evidence exists, and currently, we (people like you and me) have no evidence.

Sure, you can argue the material that was found and the odd symbols... thats about as far as it goes about evidence... but I've always found something wrong with the argument about the material recovered from the roswell crash... it seemed to describe what looked like that silver sheet kind of thing that the warmth blankets are made of in the first place, and something like was described seemes too thin and soft to be of use in the hull or any components of a space ship. It could, however, be used as material for weather balloons.

Anyway, right now we dont have any hard evidence.

woo hoo that's where I am!

but back on topic. there are a few sts-48 shuttle videos (should be able to find them on kazaa) that i cant explain, and look very strange. There are quite a few of them, but 2 that come to mind are one of a "ufo" flying by, and then suddenly shoots off into another direction. and another of this weird flippy thingy (dont know how else to explain it) floating around in the atmosphere

i also believe the phoenix lights to be flares

Perhaps its aquatus1 that i'm remembering, you two are always one right after the other in debates

As for the material recovered, from what ive read it was a foil type of material, which could not be torn, burnt, and aparently withstood a bullet (Streiber-Majestic)
The other materials were I beams that were as light as balsa wood (could not be bent) and a paper kind of material that had the same properties of the foil.
All of this material was spread out over about half a mile leading to the crashed disk that was recovered.

I would like for you to read the news release of the crash Click
As 'follow up' the government has placed the blame on the 'top secret balloon' used to spy on the russians, and dummies thrown out of high altitude planes for testing.

What i would like to know is, what are the chances that test dummies dropped from high altitude would land within feet of a downed test baloon,and fool a respected farmer, his wife, and 2 air force personel into thinking that they saw a disk, and non-human bodies?

its the poorest excuse for a cover up ive ever seen.

Yes but the foil thing is exactly what Im talking about. Its like the paper plastic kind of material I had sitting here a few days ago... I tried tearing it... it wouldnt. The foil kind of thing, well, the blanket looks like tin foil, but its soft. Either way, this is all heresay. We dont have material to analyse, so again, theres no hard evidence.

I saw this photo on tv where it actually was clearer, but this is all I could find of it, as of now. What do you think?

Fake, IMO. The thing looks like its closer than the building under it, yet its awfully small and, well, flat looking. It looks out of place, and looks unproportionate.

In my mind, I can't be the judge of whats fake or not...
But from the information I can gather, I have an idea about
whats fake and what ist. And that looks fake.

Maybe it's the "Mothership." After all I heard they were HUGE !

i always liked this one....

close up....

thats gold. its real! If its fake, then it is very well done.
But it looks very real!

Oh Cool!!! I like it!! I like it!!

well i remember having that photo in a huge ufo book i used to have and its looks pretty real, i've never really questioned it, i mean its not really close up, i always question close up clear ufo photos, but the photo i posted is rather good, i hope its real

I took a screen shot of the ufo in This Video The footage seems genuine, i tried to upload it to the gallery but it would not go. What do you think?

UA, if you can't get the video to upload here let me know and I can host it on my site...

I would like to see it.

One of the things that I would like to say about roswell is that the reports I have seen of the actual witnesses is a bit questionable in my mind. Maybe something happened there, maybe not... I don't recall her name, but the daughter of one of the men involved had seen some material that her dad had brought home for them to see. She talked about the material in detail and it's qualities(Mylar in my opinion) as well as her interaction with the military officials who supposedly tried to hush everyone up.

The interview took place nearly fifty years after the fact, and the girl was only 8 years old at the time. Anyone who has had kids knows how wonderfully creative the mind of an 8 year old is; ad 50 years of rumination onto the matter and who knows what the truth of the situation actually was.

Memories that happened 3, 4, or 5 decades earlier are anything but dependable. I understand that the folks that were there and witnessed these parts and pieces were not all children, but I wonder what the effect of time has done to the perception of the actual events? Keep in mind it was quite some time between 1947 and the actual resurgence in the story, 40 years?

When I was in college I worked for an aerospace company that produced parts for brand new aircraft and rocket systems. pretty high tech stuff...If a part came out that was unfit for delivery and was due for going in the trash, I would put it up on my shelf at home to show friends and family some of the stuff that I worked on.

I was always amazed that people that didn't know the industry were always stunned by the parts; the had never experienced composite materials or some of the alloys used in the production process. They thought that the material was too light to be real; too strong. They didn't understand what all of the markings were(that denoted part numbers, orientation markers, lot codes...). I can assure you that if I chose to tell them that the parts and pieces were off a downed alien spacecraft many of them would have taken me at my word and passed that info along as gospel to someone else.

When you don't have exposure to something(i.e. high tech parts, pieces and materials), and you don't know what you are looking at who knows what your mind is going to do to try and understand the situation...while marcel was in the military; who knows what he knew about the materials he came in contact with. The rest of the folks seem to be ordinary people without any exposure to anything that would allow them to judge what they were seeing in a context that would be helpful to knowing the truth of the matter.

"This Video" is the link to the video, sorry i should have been more direct

Here's one I found recently.

earthy I like that one. looks like a fly flying past the camera lense. and as for the rest of you, there is no way alien life can exist. no way in hades. there is absolutely no hard evidence, nothing at all that would prove other wise. come on. If there was we would have known by now...

Here's a clipping of an old newspaper. Read far right side. This is what was supposedly written in this paper.

Here's another newspaper clip from a different paper verifing first newspaper clip. What do you all think? This is the first time I have seen these.