jaylemurph
May 10 2007, 05:15 PM
QUOTE(seanph @ May 10 2007, 11:53 AM) [snapback]1668620[/snapback]
Most likely he was dumped unceremoniously in a burning garbage pit alongside other brigands and those accused of sedition. Either that, or the "Jesus tomb" has some veracity to it.
Mako is absolutely correct here. Easter is wholly pagan. Its date was set during the Council of Nicea in 325 CE. Notice that it falls on, not a set date, but on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox--March or April.
Sean
In England, they didn't even bother to change its name from the pagan festival for the fertility goddess Eostre -- which is why we still celebrate it with bunnies and eggs!
With things like this and Christmas, it's a wonder people can link modern christianity to the actual teaching of Jesus (if he even existed) with a straight face.
--Jaylemurph
seanph
May 10 2007, 07:44 PM
Sara Monster
May 10 2007, 08:20 PM
Well, there certainly is alot going on in this topic. I am a christian and I have love for everyone. I am accepting of all. Easter and Christmas are truly pagen holidays. Here is a shocker, Jesus was not born on December 25th. Please feel free to ask me any and all questions about my faith and beliefs.
jaylemurph
May 10 2007, 08:33 PM
QUOTE(Sara Monster @ May 10 2007, 04:20 PM) [snapback]1669038[/snapback]
Well, there certainly is alot going on in this topic. I am a christian and I have love for everyone. I am accepting of all. Easter and Christmas are truly pagen holidays. Here is a shocker, Jesus was not born on December 25th. Please feel free to ask me any and all questions about my faith and beliefs.
If the birth of christ and the death of christ are both pagen (sic) holidays, what's left in christianity to celebrate?
His circumcision? His trip to the temple? His writing in the sand?
--Jaylemurph
seanph
May 10 2007, 08:58 PM
QUOTE
His circumcision?
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jaylemurph
May 11 2007, 02:14 AM
...I couldn't make this stuff up:
The Festival of the Circumcision, a holy day of obligation for papists.
--Jaylemurph
Agard
May 11 2007, 07:27 PM
As far as I can tell, there are two major reasons for people becoming religious:
1. Indoctrination
2. Personal tragedy
Regarding the indoctrination: If you want to convince such people that they are mistaken then you’ll have to come up with some threats more scary that the devil, Purgatory and hell.
How can you beat that?
Therefore, it is very difficult to convince religious people that you think they are living a lie, and if you try to do so, you might just destroy something valuable for them; something they lean against when life gets rough. I sometimes envy them that. A religious person is never all alone!
My mother is a believer. I have tried to convince her for years that she was mistaken, that there is not much proof for anything written in the bible, and that some of it is too far out.
Nevertheless, I changed my point of view, and behaviour, when she got cancer. I realised her belief meant a whole lot more to her than it did to me convincing her that I think there is no higher spirit looking after her and that there is no afterlife, and that she therefore never would see her beloved ones again when she die.
Even though we, Atheists, think religious people are fantasts, we have no right to destroy the hope and faith for other people.
After all, the Christian message is good! Their mission is good (nowadays). That they try to convince you that you should believe in Christ is because they want to share the good thing they have with you.
The atheist mission is the opposite thing. The atheist is often trying to destroy the hope and faith for his “neighbour”. Instead, he should tell the religious person that it is a good thing they believe in and that it just might be true. Then you can both be happy and get along.
Most Christian people I have known were good people. I think everyone, religious or not, can recognize most of the commandments as being good rules for living in a society.
It is not just a question about who is right or wrong. It is much more complex. Think it over!!
So… To you who are searching: I hope you will find what you are looking for!
Apologies for my lack of English skills!
Steps
May 12 2007, 06:00 AM
One of the MANY secrets in the Vaticans secret vaults.....
CAptain Scuttle Tew
May 14 2007, 12:51 PM
QUOTE(Agard @ May 11 2007, 07:27 PM) [snapback]1670560[/snapback]
As far as I can tell, there are two major reasons for people becoming religious:
1. Indoctrination
2. Personal tragedy
Regarding the indoctrination: If you want to convince such people that they are mistaken then you’ll have to come up with some threats more scary that the devil, Purgatory and hell.
How can you beat that?
Therefore, it is very difficult to convince religious people that you think they are living a lie, and if you try to do so, you might just destroy something valuable for them; something they lean against when life gets rough. I sometimes envy them that. A religious person is never all alone!
My mother is a believer. I have tried to convince her for years that she was mistaken, that there is not much proof for anything written in the bible, and that some of it is too far out.
Nevertheless, I changed my point of view, and behaviour, when she got cancer. I realised her belief meant a whole lot more to her than it did to me convincing her that I think there is no higher spirit looking after her and that there is no afterlife, and that she therefore never would see her beloved ones again when she die.
Even though we, Atheists, think religious people are fantasts, we have no right to destroy the hope and faith for other people.
After all, the Christian message is good! Their mission is good (nowadays). That they try to convince you that you should believe in Christ is because they want to share the good thing they have with you.
The atheist mission is the opposite thing. The atheist is often trying to destroy the hope and faith for his “neighbour”. Instead, he should tell the religious person that it is a good thing they believe in and that it just might be true. Then you can both be happy and get along.
Most Christian people I have known were good people. I think everyone, religious or not, can recognize most of the commandments as being good rules for living in a society.
It is not just a question about who is right or wrong. It is much more complex. Think it over!!
So… To you who are searching: I hope you will find what you are looking for!
Apologies for my lack of English skills!
Well put. I find it funny that people would spend so much of their time trying to put down and destroy faith. As you said, the Christian message is good. Has that message been used by people for there own gain and coruption? Sure it has. But, for the most part, most of the Christians I know are very nice people. What is wrong in that? If it makes a person feel better to belive in a "God," and it makes that person a better person, who am I to try and take that away from them?
jaylemurph
May 14 2007, 09:10 PM
QUOTE(CAptain Scuttle Tew @ May 14 2007, 08:51 AM) [snapback]1674278[/snapback]
Well put. I find it funny that people would spend so much of their time trying to put down and destroy faith. As you said, the Christian message is good. Has that message been used by people for there own gain and coruption? Sure it has. But, for the most part, most of the Christians I know are very nice people. What is wrong in that? If it makes a person feel better to belive in a "God," and it makes that person a better person, who am I to try and take that away from them?
And most of the ones I know were hypocrites who abused the faith of christ to forward their own hatred.
At least in a society with no religion, these people wouldn't have an excuse for vicious tendencies.
--Jaylemurph
greggK
May 14 2007, 09:31 PM
No, no, no. Jesus is buried in a grave to the RIGHT SIDE of his Father, don't you know? They buried him sitting down on a rock. Maybe it was on Mt. Sinai.
MIB-Agent
May 14 2007, 09:37 PM
QUOTE(wolverine @ Sep 22 2004, 03:26 PM) [snapback]275764[/snapback]
Hi Guy's
Let me explain my self when I was kid and my father was stationed out in Saudi Arabia I used to have friend a muslim a cool guy ...but he was not a Saudi arabian but a Kashmiri well any His father told me story that after jesus was crucified on the cross and was resurrected (to cut long story) left and lived in kashmir lived a normal life ... lived up 120 years.
When I was india couple years back I travelled to kashmir and you know what I saw the shrine the say jesus is buried in ...which the locals say its his final burial place. When I came back home I told my friends about this they just laughed...Well anyway a couple weeks I sore documentary that speculated jesus was buried in kashmir.
What do you say...

Nuh-uh. The Bible says that Jesus went up to heaven and will return when the world ends. His body is
believed to have been found, but his body is not supposed to be on this planet. It probably isn't either.
Moro
May 14 2007, 09:47 PM
The story goes, "After surviving the crucifixion, Jesus Christ arrived in Kashmir, where he took up residence for the remainder of his life. There he ministered to Israelite tribes of the area, continuing to preach. He eventually married a woman named Maryan, who bore him children, and, so the theory states, he died at the age of 120 years. His tomb is located in the Mohala Kan Yar district of the capital city of Srinagar, Jammu & Kashmir, Northern India, and is called the Roza Bal ("The Site of the Honored Tomb")."
But like any other story involving jesus there really isn't much evidence to back it up.
CAptain Scuttle Tew
May 15 2007, 11:21 AM
QUOTE(Dragonwick @ May 14 2007, 09:47 PM) [snapback]1675118[/snapback]
The story goes, "After surviving the crucifixion, Jesus Christ arrived in Kashmir, where he took up residence for the remainder of his life. There he ministered to Israelite tribes of the area, continuing to preach. He eventually married a woman named Maryan, who bore him children, and, so the theory states, he died at the age of 120 years. His tomb is located in the Mohala Kan Yar district of the capital city of Srinagar, Jammu & Kashmir, Northern India, and is called the Roza Bal ("The Site of the Honored Tomb")."
But like any other story involving jesus there really isn't much evidence to back it up.
Ahoy Dragonwick,
I read about the Kashmir tomb many years ago. I don't think it is Jesus. One of the Apostles (I can't remember which one) is said to have died in Inia, but nobody is sure where. This story pre-dates the "discovery” of the Kashmir tomb. Just a guess, but I wonder if it might be the tomb of that Apostle. I think that is the more plausible explaimation. He is known to have gone to India and is reported to have died there. I THINK it was Thomas, but I'm probably wrong about the name. The idea of anyone surviving a crucifixion and then getting out of Jerusalem is a little hard for me to swallow. I know the detales about Jesus' death, but even with that, the Romans had killing down to an art. I find it hard to believe that any Roman soldier would make the mistake as to whether Jesus was dead or not. Just my thoughts on it.
CAptain Scuttle Tew
May 15 2007, 11:31 AM
QUOTE(jaylemurph @ May 14 2007, 09:10 PM) [snapback]1675064[/snapback]
And most of the ones I know were hypocrites who abused the faith of christ to forward their own hatred.
At least in a society with no religion, these people wouldn't have an excuse for vicious tendencies.
--Jaylemurph
Ahoy Jaylemurph,
I'm not trying to troll here, but I am truly sorry to hear about your experiences with people who abuse the faith of Christ. Please try to keep in mind though that not all people are like that. I guess we all have, to one extent or another, our "vicious tendencies." I do agree that I get very upset when people try to disguise those tendencies under the name of any "God." Well, hope you meet some "nice" people today.
goldelocks
Jun 3 2007, 05:46 AM
Hey all,
I'm slightly confused about the question of 'where is jesus buried' if of course he did exsist and all that but that again is another discussion.
I was always told jesus was immortal, and immortals never die. So if jesus is immortal, a god even, he shouldn't have been buried anywhere... I was told he didn't have A physical body but he manifest when needed. SO after he was killed and rose again he simply went back to heaven.... does this make sense?
carlinspace
Jun 4 2007, 11:41 AM
QUOTE(goldelocks @ Jun 3 2007, 03:46 PM) [snapback]1706534[/snapback]
Hey all,
I'm slightly confused about the question of 'where is jesus buried' if of course he did exsist and all that but that again is another discussion.
I was always told jesus was immortal, and immortals never die. So if jesus is immortal, a god even, he shouldn't have been buried anywhere... I was told he didn't have A physical body but he manifest when needed. SO after he was killed and rose again he simply went back to heaven.... does this make sense?
Yeh I thought he rose from the dead and went back to heaven - isnt that what the bible says. Or maybe Simon was crucified instead and when they saw Jesus walking around a couple of days later they went oooh Jesus Christ has come back to life - even though he didnt die in the first place.
Cyaneyed
Jun 4 2007, 11:47 AM
QUOTE(Alan Alford)
The essential story of Jesus Christ – his crucifixion and resurrection – follows a millennia-old myth in which God himself ‘died’ but returned to life as a prelude to the creation of the Universe. In this myth, which was told and retold continually for more than three thousand years prior to the formation of the Church, God personified the death and rebirth of the Universe. It was the sacrifice of this Great God’s body – of his cosmic flesh and blood – followed by the resurrection of his spirit which saved the world and washed away the sins of the first generation of mankind.
In this light, it should be assumed – unless it can be proven otherwise – that the ‘death’ and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as told in the gospels, retells the age-old myth of the death and rebirth of the Universe. Or, in other words, Jesus Christ is synonymous with God.
Support for this hypothesis is found in the gospel of John, which begins with the following statement:
In the beginning was the Word [Christ], and the Word was toward the God, and the Word was God. He [the Word] was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made... And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
The idea was that Christ, the Word, had descended from Heaven at the beginning of time, and that his spirit had entered into the world and mankind, thereby ‘becoming flesh’.
Further support for the myth of this primeval Christ is found in the Old Testament, Psalm 22 and Isaiah 52-53. In the former, a worm-like being is crucified in the underworld in a remarkably similar manner to the supposedly historic crucifixion of Jesus Christ in the gospels. In the latter, ‘the righteous servant’ of God is sacrificed for the transgressions of all mankind, and bears his unjust treatment in a remarkably similar manner to the supposedly historic treatment of Jesus Christ in the gospels. In my view, these Judaic scriptures, far from being prophecies of the New Testament (as the Church insists), allegorise the suffering of the saviour of mankind at the beginning of time.
The real meaning of Christianity is thus to be found in the myth of the creation of the Universe, according to which an earlier Universe, personified by God-Christ, was sacrificed to pave the way for the creation of the present Universe.
The gospels in their entirety would therefore be an esoteric parable for the myth of creation.
As for the Church’s assertion that Jesus, a humble human being, died and came back to life in a crucifixion in Jerusalem two thousand years ago, a possible explanation is that this historic Jesus was an actor in a Passion Play, in which he sought to re-enact the myth of creation (a widespread and popular tradition in the ancient world). This would, of course, explain why the evidence for the existence of ‘the Son of God’ two thousand years ago is so sparse.
Conclusion
The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ is myth, not history. It relates the story of the ‘death’ and rebirth of the Universe. Thus Jesus Christ personifies the myth of creation.
Link
Unlimited
Jun 4 2007, 12:13 PM
I heard jesus was so upset with everyone; that he left the planet...
apollyon
Jun 4 2007, 04:19 PM
QUOTE(Unlimited @ Jun 4 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]1708156[/snapback]
I heard jesus was so upset with everyone; that he left the planet...
well thats probably true
his dad was an extra terrestrial anyway

says so in the book
poxtomod
Nov 19 2007, 06:23 AM
Jesus became the proper name for Christ/Messiah in the early 16century, this is largely credited to Martin Luther (not King) of the protestant Reformation. Most everybody else followed this change in the coming years for unknown reasons, possibly sounded better! I believe maybe the mostly germanic Holy Roman Empire pushed this change along. Very few people had their own bibles, or could read at all so the change would not have been that difficult to push through, besides the church could always make it up as it went anyways. In other words accept or taste the hellfire you heathen dog.
Now the real Christ was a figure that many argue was more or less a combination of many different people/characters at or about what became 0 ad, but also ideas taken from plenty of different mythologies. My belief is that Rome did more to shape Christianity then Jesus did anyways. Jesus is all about the brotherhood and peace, he would not care about anything else. History would be meaningless.
Now the jewish guy that gets all the credit is Yshwh. Confused...Aramaic the common language of the time(Hebrew based on it) didn't think to include vowels in it's writing, they also didn't have a J-jay sound either complicating any type of scroll reading translating in the eary years. Rome cleaned out all the Hebrews/Jews from its lands so translation was not ideal. Even Yshwh was not generlly accepted. So the spoken name would be Yeshua, Yashuhah...you get the point.
To get to the point of this post of where Jesus is burried I believe it may be in Kashmir, in India... the name of the guy entombed there was Yus Asaf.
This sort of sounds familiar to the Yashua, Yeshua, Yashuah of hebrew, at least when you figure the phonetic difficulties in language translations.
The Spartan
Nov 19 2007, 06:41 AM
I read in one of the posts above that it could be one of the apostles.
I know what you are meaning - St. Thomas - The Twin/Doubting Thomas.
There are two versions -
St. Thomas Landed on the coast of Kerala, the southern most part of india, and converted a few bhramnin families to christianity (my family happens to be one of the original converted bhramin families..though i dont believe that stuff) and se them about evangalising in Kerala. later St. thomas went to what is now known as the state of Tamil Nadu and was met with stiff resistance there and was eventually murdered. His body was entombed there in a church in a area called Mylapore in the city of chennai(before known as Madras), but was later taken
The second version is based on the Apocryphal "Acts of Thomas" which is very contrevorsial. In it, Jesus even after his ascension to heaven comes to send thomas ona ship to some place near gujarat, on the west coast of india.
I dont know much. But it can be said that the apostle mentioned in a post above...could be, yeah could be St. Thomas!
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