Snopes

When snopes changes the rating to true, maybe you might have an arguement:)

the Pentagon Plane (or lack thereof) theory holds about as much water as the moon hoax, although i wouldn't put that one past a few of the people here:P

This is a great video Thanato...I am pleased you found a copy and linked it here.
Everybody who hasn't yet seen it ought to download this fifty minute documentry and watch it themselves...Decide for your selves...Don't let governments or their 'poodles 'decide for you.



Yep...I really urge people to read your posts. Please post them here again.
Explain to us how you have taken this conspiracy apart "piece by piece"....All you do is repeat the very same story that is disputed by this presentation. Your don't actually disprove anything...just bounce the same questions back! And then back again.
We've been there Stellar...It got the threads closed and myself suspended (two times)



And we've been down this stony path before. Nothing here either...'Snopes' Just another theory and opinion which you guys have chosen to believe: That's all.

I think everybody ought to download this video and make up their own minds about the questions raised and about the ambiguities concerning events of 911.
I urge people to go further than just accept the 'official version' put out by the government controlled mainstream media.

I thought you guys were supposed to be 'sceptics'...?
It says a great deal about somebody who will attack a person's 'faith based' belief when it comes to paranormal subjects and yet express the same adherence to 'faith' in what a government tells them. You have absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

Thanato...Have a look at this link
http://rense.com/general58/911SID.HTM

Vimjams

Ok then, I will.

I compare 9/11 to the Riechstag fire, Hitler used the Riechstag fire to get ultimate power.

Bush used 9/11 to get his power. and now your rights are being taken away. I dout you knew the peoples houses were being "inspected" by the Police at random and with out a warrant to do so. They dont talk to you, they just show up at your house. and most of the time its at the middle of the night and they are huvering over your bed with flashlights "inspecting" your house, and if you have 1 more toothbrush then you need to fine you or arrest you.

~Thanato

hey, thanato, you know this how?

Stellar, I've no idea about thanato's remarks but I can honestly inform you that in the UK...During the Thatcher years people in this country were quite often visited by men (and women) from the 'Special branch' enquiring as to their political persuasions and intentions. One only had to write to the local newspaper complaining about US missile bases to get a visit.
I started to organise a trades union where I worked (US company) and this opened me up for a personal night-time visit from several guys who entered my home whilst I slept. When notifying the police next day...I was told quite bluntly "you know what they were there for".
You may believe you live in a 'free' country Stellar...But the reality is quite different. You are only free to do as you are expected to do. Don't rock the boat.

Here have a look at this...http://rense.com/general58/canad.htm

There's an example of freedom in Canada.

Vimjams

It was on Alex Johns radio show last night and he was talking about it and some one from Vages said that there getting that down there, and its in other places.

~Thanato

Pff. Alex Jones.

And SNOPES

Vimjams


Silly isn't it

The difference is, Snopes is a reputable site. Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist who's been making outrageous claims for the last decade or more! Before this, he was claiming that the world was gonna end in 2000...

these nutjobs deny the evidence that is there and create their own fanciful explanation.

example

"a 757 didn't hit the pentagon, a ufo did, that isn't aluminum wreckage from the plane, that isn't lugage its all a government lie" *shows poor quality image of a blur crashing into the building* "see proof!"

its all about denying what evidence there is and replacing it with an explanation that has ZERO evidence and the claiming that people who disagree are brainwashed etc.


as i said, it holds about as much water as the moon hoax theory. People who aren't experts pretending to have a clue. Who do i trust? Professor Bob of NASA, or Jimmy Bob living in his trailerhome claiming the CIA put an implant in his anus to read his mind.

Comments like this one make me want to believe the author. NOT.

If you want credibility you don't use racist remarks.

Bathory...As if anything you have said bears the slightest semblance to an argument.
Your talk of "nutjobs" and the "ufo" and then the link with the "moon hoax" stories just goes to show the weakness in you own comprehension of the fundamentals behind things being discussed here.

It is quite easy to understand (for most people it is) and although I do not agree with his argument and we often fall from grace...Stellar does make a point of issue.
Bathory...Some people simply do not believe the official version of events: In fact quite a large number of people refuse to accept the tenuous official evidence put before them.

stillcrazy... That's sort of 'cheap'...Oh I see...You've been reading up on Bush's proposals for an international 'watchdog' to monitor how countries rate their Jews and you want to be first in line with the accusations.

Back to the good old days eh! "Burn witch...Burn"

Vimjams

Vimjams, you can't seem to grasp the concept of EVIDENCE
you have NONE, ZERO, NADDA
You discount the official evidence for your own delusional worldview.
I'm sorry for believing the official line, i really am, I have a thing about believing evidence and people with actual credibility. Do you actually think "hey look at this smudge" actually cuts it for evidence? there are dozens of logical flaws that coincide with claiming it wasn't a 757.




and then they put forward an idea with NO evidence, /gg and you wonder why i compare it to the Moon Hoax. This is almost as bad as the creationist vs evolution threads we used to have.

Thanato, I couldn’t get that link to open up?

Bathory...Once again and according to you, I am lacking in 'concepts' concerning a matter that you obviously disagree with. You seem to be under the impression that your opinion is wholly correct and that I personally am campaigning to somehow (corrupt) the world with a version of events that (according to you) simply isn't true.
There is absolutely not the slightest of doubts in your belief that the story you accept is anything but the truth...And you call me biased and Immoderate.

I have always stated, sometimes with conviction (too much conviction for some people's taste) that I do not believe the official version of events surrounding what happened at the Pentagon on that day...I am not at all (immovable) as to ignore any evidence that erases those doubts of mine but, so far, that unequivocal evidence has not come to the surface and that which remains still, in the opinion of a great many people, is flawed and questionable…And rightly so.

You don't need to apologise for believing in the official version of events, even though you are being sarcastic...I have never (I don't think I have ever) put somebody down by calling them "nutjobs" "whackos" "gullible idiots" or "little doubtful pissants" for doing so.
However, if anybody is being delusional, biased and somewhat (naive) concerning what is and what isn't in this regard and in respect of other people's opinions, then maybe you ought to look closer to home (real close)) like in the mirror) ?



Bathory...The "smudge" raises legitimate doubts over the question about whether or not a 757 hit the Pentagon. These 'doubts' of an unidentifiable object actually belong to you...Although you cannot bring yourself to fully grasp the implication of this conflict in your own understanding.
It is neither I, nor people with similar opinions, who cite these five frames as evidence...The 'evidence' claim comes from the official version (presenting this video) which clearly states that a 757 hit the Pentagon...Something you categorically believe.



What is this ...Some other topic by which you have expressed similar 'I know the real answer' opinions about?

Vimjams

When an author starts spouting anti-sematic garbage it has nothing to do with my support or lack thereof Bush's policies. I detest racist period.

If he had stated a fact, which he did not, as the majority of the press is not owned by Zionist as he claims. His racist remarks makes me believe that the only thing he is interested in is the skinhead mentality of all jews are bad. Hence not a credible source.

It seems that you have no real point to make except baiting people into arguments. I have tried to address your comments in a reasonable manner but you make it a personal issue, as you have done with so many others.

Good luck in finding the truth,

End of Transmission.

You know you're right on track there buddy What I found interesting is if you actually read the mountains of articles in the links off that video, my favorite part was reading...

Shortly after the attack on the Pentagon, statements from our government's security personnel said that the reason no plane was found was because it EVAPORATED. They ALSO stated that they identified the victims by their fingerprints. In the articles, it clearly states that aluminum vaporizes at 3 thousand degrees farenheit. If it was hot enough to vaporize aluminum, wouldn't it also be hot enough to vaporize FINGERS?!

So where did they get the fingers? And also, the plane that crashed into the Pentagon disappeared 45 minutes before "crashing" into the Pentagon. More than enough time to redirect the flight to somewhere else.

You will never convice VinJams.

Just because the impact at the pentagon was not caught on tape like the WTC towers were, he assume it was a government conspiracy. In truth, had neither WTC impact been caught on camera, he would belive they were missile strikes as well.

The author actually doesn't say "owned by" but quite clearly states "controlled by" Which in my view creates a completely diferent impression than the 'hate' filled one you are implying.

I wholly agree with you in regard to racism...But again, where is there anything 'racist' in the authors statement you quote?
Take a look at this link, if you can be bothered (?) http://www.rense.com/general58/zzin.htm
Are these people also? No they are not and you know it.

As for being personal...I think your accusation of racism (which reflects on all who have their official 911 doubts) is a rotten and 'cheap' attemp to escape an argument that you are no longer interested in making...But still maintain an objection to .



Yes, you have been appearing to be reasonable compared to some posters I care not to mention...But your latest comments reveal some true thoughts harbouring behind that facade...Insincerity

Vimjams


End of Transmission....Absolutely

Your right I can't be bothered with you anymore, Have a nice day

I do not make this assumption at all.
What you are doing, like others with similar views to your own, is simply making that conclusion because I express doubts concerning the official version of events...And present links to articles of various descriptions as reasons for my doubts.



Assumptions! "In Truth" You say.

Who is actually and continually making these 'assumptions'? Not I

No wonder I am often accused of being 'personal' on this subject ( by these very same people) when this is the type of contrary argument before me.

Vimjams

Just has an interesting side bar to all of this. I have a cousin and cousin-in-law on my dad's side of the family that worked at the pentagon as civilian employees. He, (my Cousin) was across town at the glass palace when 9/11 happened. His wife Karen (who retired after thirty years service) had her office in the same section that was hit. (Third floor to the right of impact point second ring in) She had been called down the hall by the Air Force Commander she worked for to see the news feeds about the twin towers. If he had not called her down to his office, she more than likely would be dead. She still suffered minor injuries and smoke inhalation, but was otherwise okay. In her words, they thought it was a missile, until they were told that a plane had hit the pentagon instead of the white house. She is not sure of what hit the place, but she did see large amounts of aluminium and other 'aircraft parts' has they were evacuated from the building.

Do I believe the official story. Nope. But I don't believe that rantings of so called experts on rense.com or other sites, who if they had solid information don't present it to the public. There are enough media outlets that would be more than happy to present reasonable solid evidence that something other than what happened in fact happened.

The media had a field day with the WMD's or lack thereof in Iraq. Why would they has a group suppress information and evidence that the federal government concealed information and hit it's own military HQ with a missile. While some of the information is interesting, without solid evidence it doesn't make a reasonable argument.

Oh well, chalk it up to another Kennedy theory and lone gunman.

Peace and keep your head low in case of low flying aircraft.

Thank you for that piece of information relating to your cousins very close experience.
What you describe of this is surely very important and evidential, and one must agree this ought to be 'officially' recorded. Is her statement of what she felt and saw at the time available?



I would be extremely interested to know what you do actually believe if, after all you have stated, you agree with me regarding the dubious nature of the official story.

For your information, Rense.com is a web site that simply posts news articles and personal opinions from contributors and quite clearly publishes a (Disclaimer) in respect of those articles and opinions.
As for being "reputable"...Well, no more and no less than any news site you or anybody else would care to mention.



This "field day" you talk of came after the Iraq invasion as the 'evidence' for the existence of WMD began to quickly evaporate. British and American mainstream media did very little to present (alternative) views about the lack of WMD in the run up to the attack on Iraq and very little coverage/credibility was given to the UN weapons inspectors...The UN was all ready being ridiculed savagely at the time.



Maybe you can explain this for yourself...When considering how easily the people and institutions you refer to, were so agreeably eager to believe the 'evidence' of WMD presented to them by the government...The photo's, the drawings, the diagrams and the witness statements...And then to work to convince the people of this WMD existence...When we all now know, with hindsight, that the 'evidence' in reality did not exist.

Isn't it just possible that the same people and institutions (you refer to) have been doing this 'deceptive reorting' with other so-called 'evidence'?

Vimjams

Do you think it's true that the President didn't allow UN inspectors to finish their job?

It wasn't up to G.W.Bush or his administration to allow or disallow the UN weapons inspectors to do (continue) their job...If that were the case, then the US president would be a great deal more powerful than some people believe he actually is.

Vimjams

I don't know. She did make a statement to investigators at the time but I really don't know if is a part of any official record available to the public. If anyone is interested I will PM her name and you can see if there is an official record or statement.

All I have is her phone call to me that night after she got home and an e-mail a week later. Because her husband (My cousin) was not at the building at the time he never had to make a statement. (To the best of my knowlege.)

And this is a direct quote from Karen, "It seemed strange that they insisted we all come down to the ready room to watch the World trade center crashes, as we all have T.V.s in our offices."

This is what leads me to believe there is more to the story than the official version. Not a article or conspiracy theorist.

However. I have a hard time with some of the stuff that is being posted on the web when it comes to peoples ideas. Much of it can be discredited through fact checking, or is contradicted through other witness accounts.

In reality I don't know.

what is the 'Ready Room' for?

Well, I heard different according to the news. But maybe I got the wrong message?

The ready room to my understanding is what the Air Force brass called the conference room for that sector she was assigned to. One of the hot shots in charge was a big Star trek fan and called it the ready room after the STNG.

Her description was a large room with a huge table and several tv monitors and a few computers. All of her section was called down after the second plane hit and just before the third plane hit the funny shaped building.

Her comments as well as my cousins are what make me think, and this is only on a personal level, that there is a lot more to the story than we have been told.
Having worked for several years at the Nevada Test Site I know the standard procedures for dis-information.
(No, I don't know if there are aliens at A51)

QuitPushingMe...There is no doubt that a lot of pressure was being placed on the UN inspectors to 'come up' with some evidence of Saddam Hussein's WMD...There was also the time scale they had to work to (The UN not being able to get an extension) Everybody knew this war was inevitable...But, apart from those who wanted this war, not eveybody knew that the UN inspectors were wasting their time...It was all a 'front' because no such weapons existed!
And all that so called 'evidence' Colin Powell was proudly showing the world ...Well, you can trust them to tell you the truth if you want???

http://www.rense.com/general34/clowns.htm

"United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan announced Monday that he had ordered the withdrawal of all U.N. weapons inspectors and humanitarian staff from Iraq as well as peacekeepers patrolling the border between Iraq and Kuwait in a clear sign that a U.S.-led military intervention appears imminent".

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/evacuate_03-17-03.html

I wonder if the bombing of Iraq would have started if the UN inspectors had remained?

stillcrazy...That's another little point. Area 51 does not exist


Vimjams

Just what some of you were hoping for...and others dread.

LA Citizens Grand Jury Condemns US Government Roll In 911 And Subsequent Coverup




Even the great gimp Bush himself couldn't refrain from mentioning the accusations circulating around on a FREE internet.


Lynn Pentz
www.911TruthLA.us
11-2-4

"LOS ANGELES - In findings issued today, the Los Angeles Citizens' Grand Jury condemned the 9/11 Commission's official version of the events of September 11, 2001 as "physically impossible, untenable, contradictory, implausible and fraudulent" and called for the release of several documents specifically naming officials responsible for 9/11, being withheld until after the election.

Citing evidence that at least 8 of the 19 alleged suicide hijackers reported themselves alive after 9/11, that the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7 came down not from fires from the planes but controlled demolition explosives which require weeks to prepare, and Administration managed "war games" (including a field training exercise scenario covering multiple hijackings and a plane going into a building) that were actually happening on 9/11 as causing air traffic controller confusion & lack of fighter response, the nation's first Citizens' Grand Jury on 9/11 unabashedly concluded 9/11 was "an inside job" that demands "legal prosecution, civil liability and political condemnation" around the world.

According to the nation's first Citizens' Grand Jury on 9/11, the US government must immediately release the CIA Inspector General's report on 9/11, which assigns blame to certain high level officials but whose release is being suppressed by new CIA Director Porter Goss until after the election, according to published reports. Goss is reported to have been having breakfast on the morning of 9/11 with the Pakistani ISI "money man" himself, General Mahmud Ahmed, who had wired $100,000 to the alleged head-hijacker Mohammed Atta."

Link to full article...And I know a few of you dissenters do actually read them.

http://rense.com/general59/9111g.htm

vimjams

Hmmm, very interesting there. Just curious, in light of that post, what would you make of the 2001 August 6th briefing given to Bush entitled "Binladen Determined To Attack Inside the United States"?

What I think is not that important...However the above article and link does go to show what US citizens actually believe about their government, which is (in my opinion) very important: No matter how many of you choose to laugh at and/or ignore it.

vimjams

Why wouldn't it matter what you think?

QuitPushingMe...Ask Babs

Writing your name is like making a statement...'QuitPushingMe'

Vimjams

Vary interesting, i keep telling every one that the Riechstag fire err i mean 9/11 was caused by a Physco. And now a court agrees, damn i would hate to be an American citizen right now